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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    That's nice. Would that be an air suspended model?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One of the few cars where 3 colors actually made the car look better. The 55-56 Packards were ungainly with the "frenched" headlights going one way and the psuedo-fins going the other, (looked like someone was trying to bend the car in half) and the car being so tall and top-hated, but the trim and colors really broke things up, in a good way.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited April 2013
    I think those V8 Packards are more interesting than same-year Caddies, Lincolns, and Imperials, and far rarer, and the Torsion-Level ride is truly impressive, but I've heard many, many times that as a collector car the automatic transmissions, V8 engines, and Torsion-Level systems are difficult to properly maintain and repair.

    Here is a color photo on delivery day of a new '56 Caribbean at my hometown dealer, Carl E. Filer Co.:

    http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=9805

    The car was sold to a local Doctor. One day the dealer (a friend of mine) got a call from the Doctor. He was at the Cleveland Clinic (a couple hours away) and could not back out of his parking space! It had to be towed home.

    I saw this very car (serial no. 5699-1258) in 1998 in Kernersville, NC. It was in beautiful shape, still had the plaque on the dash 'built for A. L. Bailey, M.D." but was now mounted on factory Packard wire wheels.

    I don't have a scanner, but fintail, on my office wall right in front of me, I have an 8 by 10 from 1958 of that dealership building with a neon tri-star and "Mercedes Benz" sign in the showroom window. Small-town dealer for sure.
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saw a beater Ford probe yesterday, circa 93-95 or so, that was originally black but probably had the most patina I'd ever seen on a modern (90+) car.

    For a minute I thought it was a flat black paint job, but a closer look revealed at least 7 shades of gray. ;)

    Of course, it was still running. Not bad for a 20 years or so old car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think those Packards are ungainly, not because of the forward thrust and back-canted fins, but rather because the passenger cabin is a bit small compared to the rest of the car. It's like a midsized car trying to puff up and look "big". Also, the ratio of window height to overall height is seems a bit low by 1955 standards, no doubt a result of the fact that this is not a "proper" 1955 design, but rather a facelifted 1951 design.

    All things considered, Packard did a pretty good job making it look up to date.

    Also, that triple-toning works because it's basically just simple, straight lines, so it's nice and clean. Nothing fancy or complicated on the sides, like how many other makers were doing their contrast colors.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited April 2013
    Yeah, those Packards still had a 1951 high beltline, which hurt looks a bit.

    Caribbeans are very expensive, and the Four-Hundred hardtop is up there a bit too, but the rest of the line are very reasonably priced. From years of looking, I'd say that condition for condition, bodystyle for bodystyle, a '57 or '58 Packardbaker usually brings more money than a '55 or '56 Clipper.

    I make no bones about it, though, that the '56's are the last true Packards, of course.

    I agree about the 'straightforward' two-tone lines on this particular model Packard. The same year Studebaker President Classic had (IMO) ridiculous two-toning, going here, there, and the other place. The '55 Packard Clipper suffered from this too I think.

    I had a high-school friend who just loved the V8 Packards...his Dad was a Packard dealership mechanic in a larger town about 15 miles from us, and had a '56 Packard Executive when new, until 1963.
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  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    That triple toning also really cuts down on the visual height of that Packard, concealing (somewhat) it's early '50s roots. This is also done with black rocker panels on various cars.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,284
    I was looking at the M-B website recently and they still offer a ton of colors. Unfortunately most of them are multiple styles of silver, gray or black.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well it's not really a torsion level "ride", it's a leveling system. The 55-56 Packard handle like most luxury cars of that era, --- very badly.

    The convertible Packards are more handsome--gets rid of that awkward passenger cab.

    Packard was a very (very) conservative company, so I could see why they liked a certain "formality" to their designs---a car where a gentleman could wear a hat while driving.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    It was the quad headlight style parked outside a tire shop and looked out of the box new.
    Black with dark gold accent color along the middle.
    I wanted it, but when I saw the owner come out and look at it before he got in, from the pride he was showing, there would have no reasonable offer to be made.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited April 2013
    Come on shifty, the slogan was "Let the Ride Decide"! ;) It was more than a leveling system.

    http://www.1956packardpanther.com/Panther/torsionLevel.html

    The cars were definitely smoother over bumps than other cars. My good friend whose Dad was a Packard dealer in that era would take prospective customers over bumpy railroad tracks in a new Packard and late-model Buicks or Olds they had as trade-ins. That was the best decider of ride in their opinions.

    Base-model Clippers had coils in front and leafs in back, but had the torsion-level as optional. Most were so-equipped.
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I always liked the interiors and dashboards on those 55/56 Packard's. I thought the car was kind of distinguished looking too, as were the Cadillac's of those years.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I grew up with these cars, and i couldn't agree less with contemporary accounts of how great the torsion level handling was. it's true there was less body roll than in competitor's luxury cars, but the steering, brakes and road manners in corners was no better than any of the big boats of the day.

    What these Packards did well was isolate you from any idea of what was actually going on.

    Much ado about nothing is my recollection.

    Now the Ultramatic transmission--that was pretty neat stuff and that really was innovative.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Although, the Ultramatic was a big problem area in these cars even when not that old.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    always liked the interiors and dashboards on those 55/56 Packard's

    I remember that the cigarette lighter was labelled "Liter" in these cars. The dumb, little stuff one remembers!
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    they also used this rather ornate brocade fabric and I believe you could get full leather in the Caribbean.

    yes, the Ultramatic did have some problems--it was an electronically operated automatic (electric push buttons instead of the crude buttons on Mopars) with a lock up torque converter (quite common now).

    The 352 cid engine also had lubrication issues.

    I remember how you could steer these monstrous cars with your one finger.

    :surprise:

    It is interesting to me how many automakers, on the brink of going out of business, came up with these wonderful 'swan songs'---hoping that some bold new innovation would save them. (Packard, Studebaker, Pierce Arrow, Graham-Paige, Cord, Duesenberg, etc etc.)

    But of course that never works. It was the company that produced bread and butter cars that were affordable, reliable and attractive that survived in the 1950s.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,347
    on the highway, a nice red 71 or 72 Mustang Mach 1 fastback. Looked well restored. Certainly not something you ever see out on the road.

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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Really rough black 1948 Chevrolet Fleetline sedan near Whitaker and Magee in NE Philly.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,951
    Saw a Buick Special yesterday. I believe it was a 1954 in a copper looking color. Needed a lot of work.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    An old Continental---turns out it was a 1942 model. These are quite rare. What I really liked about it is that it seemed completely original except for tires and what looked to be a new headliner and seat inserts. But the paint, chrome, dash, glass---all had that lovely patina of having been cared for, but with time slowly getting at things. The hood ornament alone is worth a photo.

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Those things are ridiculously expensive to restore, IIRC, good to have a sound original.

    Is that image a painting? Seems off, somehow.

    image

    Looks like something from the 1939 New York World's Fair.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2013
    Very deco, yes. Your photo looks more like the real thing I saw. The entire dash has these deco motifs, all done in a brass/gold finish.

    Oh i don't think a '42 Continental coupe is even worth restoring. You'd never see your money back.

    The owner says that the Lincoln Continental club did some research and that they know of only 14 of these coupes still existing.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Although it was a convertible, I can't see one of those era Continentals without thinking of the one "Baby Jane" Bette Davis drove in that movie in 1962.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I was reminded upon his passing, that I had been within four feet of him, at all places, in the old Studebaker National Museum in South Bend in around 1990 (former Freeman-Spicer Studebaker, then Chrysler, dealership building). I knew he had a Golden Hawk as it had been mentioned in interviews. I was at South Bend for an annual swap meet weekend and my V8 Packard friend said in his booming baritone, "There's Roger Ebert!", upon which Roger promptly turned around and walked the other direction. I can't say I blame him.

    A longtime writer in the national Studebaker Drivers' Club magazine ran into Ebert in the '90's at a Steak and Shake restaurant in Michigan City, IN. They spoke briefly and Ebert said he was headed to a vacation home in western MI. I read online yesterday that Ebert was quoted as saying if he "...were on death row, his last meal would come from Steak and Shake". Pretty funny.

    Talented guy and pretty brave with all the health-related issues he'd had the last decade.
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    In sight, must be right. Takhomasak! Why did they dump the Lime freeze???
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I like their food too, but the last one I was in, near an interstate highway, was unbelievably slow and to use the men's room you should have had a hazmat suit on. We got our milkshakes, ordered with the meals, after we were done eating and the plates had been taken away. This was about two months ago. I did let them know about it afterwards via email and I got a very courteous response back from the Store Manager. Trouble is, I can't see that I'd be back down that way anytime soon.
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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,347
    what I think was a '54 "rat rod" running around the back country roads of south jersey. Looked kinda cool.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The fate that befalls many high end cars - restoration costs far exceed value, and the cars tend to be too complex. Also, I bet a 42 Continental can be a tedious drive.

    Still, a looker, and one of the earliest recognized "classics" IIRC. I prefer the earliest versions with the pointy 1939 style nose. On the coupes, the rear quarter window would look a lot cleaner without the soft pillar.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    they also used this rather ornate brocade fabric and I believe you could get full leather in the Caribbean.

    The '56 Caribbean had reversible seat cushions...brocade on one side and leather on the other. Unlike the Four-Hundred though, you got no rear-seat center armrest, even in a Caribbean hardtop.

    Those seat cushions were heavy enough that there was a service bulletin about a repair to keep the front seat passenger cushion from flying forward every time the car was stopped (without a passenger in it, of course).
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/new-documentary-focuses-on-tale-of-hemingways-19- 55-chrysler-new-yorker.html

    Amazingly to me--David Soul's parents lived in my hometown of Greenville, PA in the '70's, when I was a teen. His Dad taught at Thiel College there. When David would come home for the weekend, attendance at the Lutheran Church would double as news got around the 8,700-odd folks in town (1970 census)!

    I've mentioned that GM VP of Styling, Bill Mitchell, also grew up in Greenville and also in the '70's, the parents of Watergate figure John Dean lived in town too. George Will's mother was from Greenville. I find all this rather amazing for the size of the town and considering it is not a suburb of a city, but I attribute at least some of it to the college there.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A '55 Chrysler NYorker convertible is one of the very few 50s cars I'd love to have. I drove a '55 St. Regis last year and I couldn't believe what a wonderful car it was.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I'd believe it. I'd take a '55 New Yorker over any near-luxury or luxury car of that year, domestic or foreign, Allowing for the fact that any car has tradeoffs, I think the New Yorker was the best, overall. This was especially true when price was considered.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited April 2013
    I've seen those New Yorkers with the St. Regis package, and they're downright luxurious. How would a New Yorker compare to something like a Buick Super/Roadmaster, Cadillac, or Lincoln? IMO, that's about the only direct competition a New Yorker would have had in those days. The Olds 98 was a nice car, but was just a stretch of the B-body (Olds 88 and Buick Special/Century), rather than being a truly "big" car like a Buick Super/Roadmaster. And Mercury in those days was closer to Pontiac or Dodge.

    One thing that amazes me, when I see a '55-56 New Yorker, Imperial, or Desoto Fireflite, is how thick and voluptuous the seats are. They really are almost like living room sofas! I can't recall the Chrysler Windsor and Desoto Firedome seats, but I think they were thinner inside. And while the '57 Mopars made the '56 versions, as well as just about all the competition, look obsolete, you could see evidence of cost cutting in the seats. Some of the fabrics were still pretty nice, depending on model, but the seats themselves were thinner.

    As for the Imperial, in 1955-56, what really, did it give you over a New Yorker? It used the same Hemi engine as the New Yorker (331 CID in 1955, 354 in 1956), but was heavier, so performance had to be down a bit. It used the same body shell, so it didn't give you any more interior room than a Chrysler...or Desoto for that matter. All the extra length was in back, which did give you a longer rear deck and more trunk room, but most of that room was over the rear axle or even ahead of it, so it was only useful if you were hauling long items that would fit up in there. And yeah, the Imperial had a nice interior, but I can't remember if it was really all that much nicer than a New Yorker. Especially with the St. Regis package.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I just liked the way the St. Regis drove. A Cadillac feels like a whale next to it, and the Buick, while really nice looking, is a bit of a cow with that transmission.

    Such a nice car!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,347
    these days. A Mitsubishi Expo LRV (the smaller 3 door for those who remember they had 2 models!)

    uncommon back in the 80's when it came out. Ultra rare out on the road today.

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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    In general, I tend to like the 55 Mopars more than the 56 models. I know they used 56 to start the transition to fins, but that seemed to make the rear ends a bit ungainly on many of them. Chrysler and DeSoto probably carried it off best. I guess my two favorites looks wise are the 55 DeSoto and 55 Dodge models. They just looked kind of sporty and sharp to me, although I do lean toward the 56 push button transmission control over the 55 levers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I think the '55 and '56 Chryslers look chubby, but I guess that's not wholly unlike most cars that were being sold in their price class at the time.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Did anybody look at the list? I'll say this, it's probably the 'best' list of its kind I've seen. For one, it covers old cars and current, and secondly, it's not called "Worst" cars for some unnamed reason. Those lists are the kind that foreign car buffs always post on domestic-brand threads on Edmunds!

    I don't agree with the whole list, but I don't think there are many that I can say "What the hell are they talking about??!". For one, I like '74 Matador coupes but I can see why somebody wouldn't.
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sliding door, too. How odd that the bigger vanlet had swing out doors?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    For those who don't have the link:

    100 Ugliest Cars of All Time

    I agree, it's a pretty good list----a few quibbles which I'm sure we all have, but by and large, it would be difficult to defend many of these cars.

    In their defense, sometimes "ugly" can be charming, but that's a dangerous game for a car company to play.

    It's the bumper that screws up the '74 Matador. A little photoshop could clean that car up real nice.

    I remember I was just a young twerp and my dad had left Packard after the Holocaust in 1956, and got a job with Lincoln-Mercury. His first "field car" was a '57 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser.

    My brother and I were horrified. After cruising in Packards to be dropped off at school, we decided to walk :P

    It was so bad that when he moved over to Renault, we were delighted to ride around in a Dauphine. That was 1960 or so, when Renault actually outsold VW for a few months there.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited April 2013
    It's the bumper that screws up the '74 Matador. A little photoshop could clean that car up real nice.

    I think it's the headlights that mess up the '74 Matador coupe. Too bug/frog-eyed looking for my tastes. Overall though, I like the shape of the car. I think if they could have worked hidden/pop-up headlights into the design of the car, it would have looked neat.

    Oh, and reading through that list, one little detail caught my eye. Is a '72 T-bird really only 214" long?! I think the downsized '77-79 T-birds were something like 214-215" long, and thought it was about a foot shorter than the T-bird it replaced.

    I guess it's possible though, as the '72 T-bird didn't have those jutting 5 mph bumpers that were added in later years. Those alone could have added a good 6 inches in the front and another 6 in the rear.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I thought that Renault outsold VW in the U.S. for a full model or calendar year, not for just a few months, in 1959 or 1960.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I was always impressed that AMC could get those big quarter windows in the Matador coupe to roll down, when GM didn't or couldn't in the Colonnade cars. I don't know if that had to do with the GM roof tapering over the quarter windows....or if they just decided to dictate that those windows wouldn't go down!
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited April 2013
    I think quite a few Packard folks went over to Lincoln and Mercury (and subsequently Edsel) after the demise of Packard in '56--including Jim Nance, who had been Packard's president and Studebaker-Packard's president as well.

    I always thought that I could see some '58 Merc in the stillborn Packard prototypes that were being considered for '57 and later.

    I've read that the '57-58 recession did no good for medium-priced cars.

    Re.: the Dauphine...I've seen maybe a couple in my life, but I only know that my Stude-Packard-MB dealer friend told me he took a couple of those in on trades and in his eyes they were very troubleprone--although I can't remember what he felt was troubleprone on them.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You could be right about total sales for the year for Renault vs. VW.

    Too bad about the Dauphine. It was *so much* better engineered than the VW--faster, way better gas mileage, roomier, warmer, better handling, better brakes, better visibility.

    What it didn't have was that reliability & parts & service network thingie.... :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited April 2013
    I've read that the '57-58 recession did no good for medium-priced cars.

    It didn't, although part of the problem was that the middle-priced field was getting really crowded, as well. I always thought it was a bit odd that the one middle-priced brand that did fairly well in 1958 was Oldsmobile. Its sales were only down something like 23-24%, compared to around 41% for the middle-priced market, as a whole.

    I always thought the '58 Olds was, for lack of a better word, the "most fallen", stylewise, compared to the '57. But, I guess that there was something about it that appealed to buyers that year.

    Maybe it could simply be that everybody else was so bad, quality-wise, that middle-priced buyers thought they had nowhere else to go? Chrysler's '57 models developed a bad rap really quickly, and supposedly '57 Mercurys weren't so hot, either. I've also heard that quality had been slipping on Buicks, as their popularity kept rising and GM rushed to keep pace with demand. As a result, sales cooled off in '57 and even more for '58.

    In contrast though, I think Oldmobiles back then tended to be pretty solid, durable cars, and I don't think they ever got a bad rap for quality. Until the Diesel, that is!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    There are quite a few cars that shouldn't be there, but many that are both kind of ugly and charming (like late 50s excess, Euro oddity). The latter charming part is where one can take offense.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,951
    I thought some were on there really aren't ugly, just pretending to be something they are not. IMO the K-car varients aren't ugly, neither was the Cimarron (at least not any worse than the Cavalier of the time). I also don't think the Mark VI is an ugly car (unless it had those God awful fog lights). The 85 Deville isn't all that bad either.

    The Aztec should be #1 on any list.

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  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,951

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Exactly. Many on there that I don't find to be ugly.

    That Lincoln "wagon" is pretty bad, if anything, for the unhappy marriage of angles and curves.
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