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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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We had a '76 Cutlass Supreme, those door pulls were constantly coming off. I must have screwed them back on 50 times, the little covers over the screws eventually got lost. I think my Dad finally force larger screws in them, that seemed to last longer.
Yeah, those were big, heavy doors. Not surprised. Hinges would sag on those also.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
On my Granddad's '85 Silverado, the little covers ended up breaking off. Sometimes the screws would work themselves loose as well. Eventually, one of the straps itself broke, and I simply took both straps off, to try to clean up the looks of the truck a bit. Of course, with a sagging headliner, cracked dash, and big rip in the vinyl seat, taking the broken pull-straps off didn't help much.
My '76 Grand LeMans has pull straps on the door panels, but thankfully they're mounted pretty far forward, so they're not that easy to grab onto. More for show than go, I guess. That might be one reason they've been spared...it's easier to just use the padded armrest to pull the door shut.
Chrysler did a nasty trick with the '79 R-body. There's a pull strap on the door, but that's the only way to conveniently pull the door shut. The armrest itself doesn't have an indentation to grab onto. So, needless to say, it wouldn't be long before those pull-straps were broken. On the New Yorker at least, Chrysler finally did beef them up, but I can't remember if that was 1980 or 1981.
I'd seen more than one fairly-recent Monte Carlo back then, with the strap hanging by only one screw. Ever after that, any car I owned that had straps, they were for decoration only and I always closed the door with the armrest.
The ones on my 1974 Monte broke if you stared at them hard...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Whoever convinced Studebaker to name a car the "Dictator" during the rise of Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini should probably have been put up against a wall and.....you know...:)
During the thirties, Morris made a range of buses -including some double deckers - for the British market, under the Morris-Commercial brand. One of those was the Morris-Commercial Dictator...
I think they had virtually dropped their bus range by the time the war came - due to competition from AEC, Leyland etc, not because of the name - but I would imagine they didn't sound so great in cities being blitzed by the Luftwaffe, from 1940 onwards...
Of course, Jaguar started motorcycle sidecars (called Swallow Sidecars) and initially when they branched out into cars in the late twenties it was as coach-builders - under the Swallow brand. Pretty soon Swallow started making cars in their own right, and for much of the thirties they were branded as SS cars - the name Jaguar was a model of SS not a make in its own right, at first. I think the name switched to Jaguar just before the war, and obviously after 1945, given the horrors that had just happened, no-one was going to sell cars labelled SS, but for a time in the thirties, it was a popular brand - they even had a badge that looked a bit Art-Deco like the [non-permissible content removed] SS one....
Always amazed me that Chevrolet made cars in the sixties with a model designation SS too...
Yeah, but remember, this is the country that had tv shows like "F-Troop" and "Hogan's Heroes"...
I remember reading that the marketers at Chevrolet were a little anxious about putting "SS" on their cars, with World War II and Hitler still being fresh in everyone's memory. But, they went ahead and did it anyway.
One of these decades maybe we can reclaim the "whirling log" symbol used by the Navaho and other Native Americans in many of their objects, including lots of old weavings and rugs. The symbol/design dates back to 5500 BCE; it got a bit of "German" taint by the early 20th Century but it was the [non-permissible content removed] that ruined the motif, at least for Westerners. The [non-permissible content removed] association may be too much to overcome though. (Wiki)
andre, just today I emailed with an old friend of mine about the '61 Impala SS and I said the very same thing to him...about how some people felt about "SS" as a model name so comparatively soon after [non-permissible content removed] Germany.
Studebaker used the 'Dictator' name from 1927 until dropping it abruptly in 1937, to be replaced with the name "Commander" which was used, with a five-year hiatus, up until the very last 1966 model,. Luckily, they were still not using 'Dictator' in 1939 or into the forties!
Did you ever see this piece of factory literature showing a '61 Impala SS Sport Sedan?
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chevy/61ss/bilder/2.jpg
Gotta love people who think they have a right to not be offended. Sadly, they are a large group, and have undue influence in many matters.
In car news, maybe not obscure yet, but over the past few days I spent time in a less prosperous area than where I live - and now I know what happened to all the early Geo Metros.
Well we have a "Marauder" and an "Avenger" but not a super-sized 4X4 SUV called a "Terrorist" yet---perhaps there is a marketing opportunity waiting to be picked up?
Judging by what one sees on TV, a "Terrorist" would likely be a medium sized Japanese make 4x4 pickup
Well if you are on a raid, you want something reliable, rather than a check engine light.
There should have been a Terminator version of the Hummer H1 as an available option.
I thought it was kinda cool that in that war torn future shown in "The Terminator", the lone vehicle they showed that was still running was a '76 LeMans!
This might sound kinda morbid, but my '79 New Yorker is serving double duty today...taking advantage of that "Nightwatch" blue, to thaw out a frozen rat for my pet python. I knew that dark color would come in handy, for something...
My sister-in law lived in a very old apartment building in Milwaukee that has the [non-permissible content removed] symbol in small tiles in the lobby floor. I was surprised it was never removed but the building predates Hitler's rise and the craftsmanship on the tile work is something you don't see anymore.
I have an early '70s BMW magazine ad that touts how their radial engines powered the yellow-nosed FW190s of JG 26- the Abbeville Boys...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
In the town where I grew up there was an ancient YMCA that had a huge indoor pool. The place must have been built in the 30's since everything inside was art deco.
One day, someone just happened to notice that the tile surrounding the pool had swastikas in the tile design. There was quite an uproar over this! Some community members wanted the tile removed and replaced!
The YMCA was probably barely solvent at the time as I recall.
Their response was..." If you pay to have that tile replaced, we will have it replaced!"
After that, there was no longer a problem.
I learned to swim in that pool and our high school had it's swim team there and nobody thought anything of it and probably didn't even notice.
Interesting read IMHO, from Hagerty:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/05/09/five-undesirable-collector-cars-that-have-skyrocketed-in-value/?intcmp=features
I'm very curious to see what a '64 Hawk with supercharger sells for at Mecum Indianapolis in the next week or so. I like those later Hawks a good bit better; no doubt a function of my age.
Fox really should explain to the general public the difference between a market value and a freak sale where one car sells one time for 100% over market.
Market's a bit soft for the Studebaker GT Hawk R2 right now but I'd predict a sale price of roughly $48,000 to $54,000. If the published hammer price is more, be sure to deduct 10% for auction fees---so if it hammers for $60k, then I'm on the money.
My wife will literally kill me if I bid on this, but I DO want it so...
1971 Jensen Interceptor
With the 383 Magnum V8 and 727 Torqueflite...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'd say maximum value right now would be about $18.5K
I agree; I forget which magazine I was reading, but it said that Interceptors were the CDs of the classic car world- you won't make any money off them, but you won't lose any either...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
not my cup of tea, but looks like a nice one. and if the seller is telling the truth, it probably is.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Shifty, Hagerty published the list; Fox just reported it. Also, I've been noticing Golden Hawks exceeding other fifties stalwarts at the auctions for a good five years or so, not just one sale.
I predicted $50K on the GT Hawk a month ago, but only based on Golden Hawks fairly regularly going for half-again as much as that at the auctions and the Golden Hawk having more 'bling'. That Gran Turismo Hawk I mentioned sold for $35K on eBay about four years ago.
andre, remind me where I should close the hood if I'm ever looking at your car at Carlisle or some place.
Best not ask where the python lives.
Oh, the snake is in a cage in the house. I wouldn't be surprised though, if snakes have gotten into that New Yorker from time to time, as they're all over the place in the grass, fields, and forests. Mice have gotten in the car, and once or twice I've had to knock a wasp nest out.
A black rat snake got in my '85 Silverado once. I would tend to leave the windows cracked and the rear window open a bit in nicer weather. Well one day, my roommate drove the truck to work, and about a mile down the road noticed the snake in the passenger side footwell! He pulled over to the side of the road and managed to shoo it out.
Once, I must have left the back window open a bit too wide, because he found a stray kitten in there! He got it out of the cab, and tried to shoo it away towards the woods, but it climbed up into the bed and hopped right back in, through the rear window!
Oh, and that frozen rat WAS in a ziplock bag...it wasn't sitting out bare on the hood!
That was my point---Fox should have mentioned that such a sale is a radically outlier result.
GT Hawk prices are soft right now. Flat prices since 2012 for the nicer cars, and values dropped for the "drivers".
Golden Hawk (Packard engine) prices had a good blip for a few years back and are now flat at around $50K for a real stunner. Lesser qualiity GH's are dropping.
The other Hawks are all following a similar pattern--they had a bump in 2012-to early 2013 and now that's flat or dropping slightly.
They may pick up again or may droop. Hard to say. All collectible cars react differently. Some are going skyward, some plunging badly. Hard to say.
My advice? Hold what you got, and don't buy just yet.
@uplanderguy said:
And a quarter-million for a 190SL? YIKES! Classmate had one in the late 70s, dad got it for a project, don't know if anything ever came of it. Seems like crazy money, to me...
It is crazy money--you should be able to buy show quality for around $150K and very clean, very nice drivers or older restorations for $100K---maybe some cost-no-object, rare, celebrity-owned, impeccable flawless Pebble Beach jewel could fetch a quarter mil, but that's a rare price for a rare car on a rare day.
These are charming cars, albeit very feminine in nature and with only 120HP, only marginally a sports car. Beautifully built, though--this ain't an MG!
With only 70 '64 R2 Hawks built over 50 years ago, one can only wonder what the 'market' has been. I do know this, there has not been one that has been sold in the past few years that has been restored to this level. I love the green, but it probably hurts value. Historically, the '64 model year adds value when compared to a '63 R2 Hawk. I've heard the restoration is starting to show its age a little, but nothing a few hours of elbow grease wouldn't fix up for the most part.
You take the total # of R2s to track the market. With rare cars, the build year doesn't have a great effect on value. Maybe add 5% for a
If the restoration has been recent, then you might not see a sale at all, since the seller may not be willing to take a loss at this point in time.
Isn't knocking wasp nests out of cars fun?
A few years ago for some reason one of our off site lots attracted a bunch of wasp nests.
they would somehow get through the crack in the doors where they meet the front fenders.
Lots of fun when the doors were suddenly opened!
I'm glad we don't have snakes around here!
Yep, that's where they were building the nests in my New Yorker...getting in between the front door and the fender, but also, occasionally, in the gap between the front and back doors.
Fortunately, I've never let the car sit long enough to have the nests get very big. When there's only a few wasps, you can usually just knock the nest off with a stick and they'll fly away. But once the nest gets big enough, they have safety in numbers I guess, and are more likely to come after you.
Usually, once or twice per summer, I'll run over a yellow jacket nest with the tractor when I'm cutting the grass. It's a miracle I guess that they've never come after me. I won't even notice it until after it's happened, and then I come around for another pass, and see them swarming.
I remember when a nice 300SL roadster wouldn't be more than a few hundred grand, and a nice enough 190SL would be 40K tops. Things changed.
Forgotten fintail will be a future favorite - I am a little hesitant to start hoarding just yet, based on some detail errors in the piece.
Went to Costco this morning, which seems to be when oldsters go. Saw a few things that are getting thin on the ground these days - immaculate first generation Intrepid - sporty model, immaculate 91-95 Caravan (both of those cars usually succumbed to transmission failure 10+ years ago), and a spotless ~1980 (guessing by hubcaps) Ford Club wagon, shiny like a year old car, period correct two tone blue and white paint (so kind of a 3 tone) - funny thing to preserve.
The 2002 is supposed to be appreciating- the tii in particular; I don't plan to make a killing when or if I sell it, but at least I'll probably break even.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If those yellow jackets decide to come after you you'll know it.
Those black ground hornets that make their nests in the ground are NASTY when disturbed!
Agreed, fintail. Things do change. One really notices that studying the same kind of cars on eBay routinely over the years, like I do and as I suspect you do.
For cars I like, ebay is a crapshoot - some bring big money, some are ignored. I am more amused at observing long term trends, and prices that far exceed inflation or even rational behavior. Example - 40 years ago, I suspect a very nice 300SL gullwing was at the very most a 10K car. Today they are a million. That's even crazier than Seattle area housing.
Speaking of 70s era MBs from earlier, here's an accurate observation: "The value of a Mercedes-Benz R107/C107 goes down to a hair’s-breadth over scrap price once it becomes non-perfect" - that about sums it up. The "Junkyard Find" is a very fun series too, the best part of that site by far.
I do see trends by watching eBay over the years, primarily for Studebakers. I've seen Hawks go up and up over the years, exceeding Avantis which were high as even just used cars but didn't go up. I've seen Avanti-powered Larks go up, sometimes even exceeding Hawks because folks like the 'sleeper' status. When you see what seems like ridiculous pricing on a particular model, over several examples of the same model over several years of big-buck auctions, that gives you an idea of things in general as well. IMHO only, I think eBay gives a better overview than brick-and-mortar stores. Do we know anybody who's bought an old car at a brick-and-mortar store? I know one. I do think the Europeans tend to buy there though.
I think it depends. For most people with normal budgets, they buy privately or maybe from ebay (which is also big in Europe - I don't think it is too different there) or small time dealers. For people in Europe buying USA imports, they often use a dealer rather than self-importing just because it is easier. But for people spending a lot, they might buy from a fancy auction or big name dealer - as it gives them recourse if the car isn't as claimed.
Ebay is good for tracking trends or looking for trends that seem like outliers, as you mention. It is pretty impossible to get prices from private or dealer sales.
Most Hawks have been flat since 2010, especially the GTs, but the Golden Hawks have had a 20-30% appreciation over the last 5 years. I'd imagine the supercharged cars are doing pretty well, too. Regular Larks have dropped in value. Maybe everyone who wanted one now has one---you know, supply and demand equation.
So yeah, it's hard to generalize trends---it very much depends on the actual year and model.
Saw 2x Caddy XLR this afternoon - I think one was a V, as it had a difference stance and wheels.
Speaking of Hawks, in the latest Hagerty weekly newsletter, they mention the Hawk as a car that has appreciated rapidly.
I would love to own a '64 GT Hawk someday. There's DNA from the '53 still there, but I love the styling and character still. We'll see what fate brings.
I love them with the vinyl top, although the door-handle guards on this one are clunky I think:
http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Studebaker/64-Studebaker-hawk-R2-DV_11-SJ_015.jpg
That's a supercharged, disc-brake example.
Newest Classic Car by Hemmings magazine has Edsel Ranger convertibles featured. Labelled "Ultra Rare." Good reading.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I just gone mine today too, imidazol. I hate the '60 Edsel's taillights, but man are they rare! Only 76 convertibles built. My firecely-loyal Ford coworker and friend says without a hint of hesitation that the dealer in his hometown of Wadsworth, OH had a new '60 Edsel convertible in their showroom--and he's aware of that ridiculously-low production number!
I saw a '60 Edsel two-door hardtop at Hershey some time back. That '60 Ford body is a good-looking place to start, IMHO.
Calling Mr. Shiftright....
Didn't you say you came from a Packard family?
This would make a spiffy addition to your collection!
Heck, you could stuff your Mini in the back seat!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Packard-7-passenger-CUSTOM-SUPER-1947-PACKARD-CUSTOM-SUPER-CLIPPER-Bby-HENNEY-C-C-C-A-CLASSIC-/151302556760?forcerrptr=true&hash=item233a55cc58&item=151302556760&pt=US_Cars_Trucks