I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

I think another thing that might have helped with the stacked headlights in the 60's is that they often had a slight forward thrust to them which, while un-aerodynamic, perhaps, helped give the cars a sporty, muscular look. By the mid to late 1970's, they pretty much threw sporty out the window, and pretentious and faux luxury was where it was at. So who cared if your car had plastic slabs for door panels and a pegboard headliner...just as long as it had creases in all the right places and an upright, mock-Mercedes grille!

andre1969

Yesterday afternoon I saw a white '75 Pontiac Grand Ville Brougham convertible, top down in the mild, sunny weather. Tried to get a pic but traffic wouldn't cooperate. Looked pretty nice from what I could tell.

magnette

fintail said:

I attended the annual PNW Concours today - I missed it the past couple years. As usual, it was a very diverse assortment, a little something for everyone - even a few Studebakers. Hard to decide what I liked most - several really cool cars, from high end to relatively ordinary.




Fin, that was a great show and museum - loads of cars I have never seen before...

uplanderguy

At a local cruise last night, I saw a plum-colored '90 Trofeo, which I think we had discussed on here not all that long ago. It was clean and original-looking, in and out. Also, a different guy had both a very clean Torino-based '70 Falcon two-door sedan and '76 Electra Limited four-door hardtop. He claimed there are only two such Falcons left in the country (LOL) and that the Electra had only 26K miles, but the driver's door armrest was completely shot. He also said he tried to take the Electra through an automatic car wash yesterday but wasn't permitted to by the car wash owner--who said old, big cars like that cause damage to the equipment. Who would take a car like that, today, through a car wash?!

andre1969

I took a look in my old car book, and there were something like 20,000 of those 1970.5 Falcon 2-door sedans produced. Granted, it's not a highly sought-after car, but I'm sure there are more than two left in the country!

Those '71-76 C-bodies used a soft-touch material for the armrests, similar to dash padding I guess, but thinner. And, it's a fairly large piece. Over time, I think hot and cold cycles cause it to stress and crack, and dirt, grime, and body oils help it to break down, as well. I've noticed that they don't tend to hold up. I've seen these cars at shows where the interior can be absolutely pristine otherwise, but that soft-touch padding has fallen apart.

Cadillacs often fared worse, because they also used a similar type of padding on the upper door panels, around the pull strap, whereas the Electra and Ninety-Eight just used good old fashioned vinyl, or fabric, or a combination of the two. Here's a Caddy interior...


For the most part, I wasn't a fan of GM's downsized E-body coupes from 1986 onwards, but I think the Toronado was my favorite. I've always been partial to hidden headlights, though. I thought the '90-92 was a big improvement...it's rare that an auto maker can simply tack on an extra foot to an existing design and actually make it better!

I thought it was sad when the Toro was canceled, but the market for these types of cars was dying out fast. And, in some ways, I looked at the '95 Aurora as sort of a 4-door Toronado.

uplanderguy

That red interior reminds me how much I miss red interiors!

The Limited I mentioned was a firethorn color, no vinyl top, and a beige velour cloth interior with a loose-cushion on the lower back of the seats.

The guy with the Trofeo told me he had an '87 Toronado before he had the Trofeo. Of the Eldo, Riv, and Toro, when the '86's came out, I think I probably liked the Toro the best. It seemed they were frequently shown as navy blue with silver along the bottom.

Some of the stuff you hear at car shows--although most are from spectators! I can't tell you how many times I've heard about Studebakers, "they still make those in Canada, don't they?" and "That 289 engine was made by Ford".

This guy spouted some incredibly wrong market stuff about that Falcon, I can't even recall it here! LOL

andre1969

I still remember seeing, years ago, a '75 Electra Limited 4-door hardtop, black with a dark red velour interior, for sale in a shopping mall parking lot for something like $1400. This was back in 2000-2001. I remember the car looked really nice, except for the plastic endcaps for both rear fenders were missing.

Sometimes I wish I had bought that car, but then I guess if I did, when I finally came across my '79 5th Ave, I would've been whining about how I wish I HADN'T bought the Electra, so I could buy the 5th Ave! Funny how that stuff can work out.

I remember going to an abandoned car auction at Dulles Airport in Virginia, with my uncle in 1990. One of the cars they were auctioning off was an '86 Olds Toronado, black. It went for something like $4,000. Kind of a shame to think of a car that new going for a mere fraction of its original MSRP. I'd imagine it had electrical glitches galore...I think that was a common problem with those E-bodies the first couple of years.

fintail

In the few couple days I have seen 2x 80s era Trooper 2 doors - both white. Also a modular style Pulsar, 77-79 Coupe DeVille, 88-90 Escort GT, VW pickup with "Sidewinder" decals, BMW 2002 sitting under a tarp, earlier C140 V12 on the highway, numerous Geo Metros - I am in a small town.

boomchek

I like the Zagato Aston Martin DB7 from the show. Not something you see often. Must be only a handful of those in existence since I think 100 were made.

boomchek

Here are some photos from the Vancouver Luxury + Supercar show from last weekend. Lots of old and new vehicles and they try to hold a different theme every year. This year the show had a large Thunderbird display, as well as a "British Invasion" theme with lots of MG's and classic Jaguars.

Full album here of classic and modern vehicles: Vancouver luxury Supercar Show

roadburner

I'll take the TR3 and 2000 GT.

fintail

Cool pics. 2000GT caught my eye too, and that blue W111 cabrio is very pretty.

I'd expect some wacky stuff at a show in BC, with the more reasonable private import laws.

roadburner

Also like the Alfa Montreal peeking out in the shot of the D Type and Pagoda SL.

boomchek

Yeah that Alfa Montreal is a common sight on the local show circuit here and on the road. Funny enough a lot of the really old cars were driven to the show, it's just the new stuff that was mostly flat bedded from dealerships.

fintail

That can't be a real D-type, right?

ab348

Here's one for Andre:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chrysler/newport/1720501.html

That might be the nicest '79 Newport left on the planet. Even at that, I think the price is very optimistic. But it is certainly a nice time capsule.

uplanderguy

That looks like the cleanest '79 Chrysler I've seen in a while, but I always hated, no matter the make, when either the dealer or owner felt compelled to glue an aftermarket side molding on in the wrong place, or put a pinstripe on in a place the manufacturer didn't.

stickguy

just got back from Bermuda. so many oddball tiny cars, can't even remember them.

and man, Suzuki makes/made a dazzling array of small to tiny boxes! Rode in an APV shuttle van a bunch of times. fantastic space utilization in something that must be the size of a Soul. 166"

ab348

I'm unsure if either the side moldings or pinstripe are aftermarket. There are lots of pics online of other '79 Newports with both. The factory brochure shows the pinstripe in this location but the front end follows the angle of the front fender tip down towards the bumper. Other pics show the style as on the subject car. I have come to learn from looking this up that this particular car was sold out of Oregon in 2013 as a 1-owner, 89,000 mile example for nowhere near this price. It then went to a dealer in Idaho and now is being flipped by another dealer in Missouri.

stever

@stickguy, I looked those up yesterday after seeing another of your posts. The APV looks to have a bit of that concept VW Microbus DNA in the front end - probably just my imagination but Suzuki and VW just ended some sort of tie-up.

Love the little tires too, but it doesn't appear to have sliders.

uplanderguy

I'd be surprised if both on that Newport were original; I think it's unusual for the side molding and pinstripe to be so close-together, but andre probably has the answer.

My even-bigger pet peeve is on an otherwise beautifully painted/restored car, when the shop couldn't be bothered to verify where the nameplates and emblems were supposed to go. I can typically spot that kind of thing a hundred feet away (I couldn't even do that with orange peel! LOL), and it can't easily be corrected. I see that pretty often on collector cars, and even daily on everyday cars.

imidazol97

stever said:

The APV looks to have a bit of that concept VW Microbus DNA in the front end - .

I believe I saw an APV in Metro Columbus on I270 a few years back being used as a cab: it was a strong yellow.

stickguy

Yeah, the APV has normal rear doors.

stickguy

back here, I see that a guy that lives just outside my neighborhood is selling his old Ford truck. Looks to be about a 1952. looks tired, but seems to be complete. If my dog could make it that far these days I would walk past and scope it out better.

Old guy lives there. Not sure I ever noticed the PU before, but I know in a shed he has (or had last time I saw doors open) a Model A of some sort.

Truck I suppose could make a nice hot rod project.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I'd be surprised if both on that Newport were original; I think it's unusual for the side molding and pinstripe to be so close-together, but andre probably has the answer.

Well, here's another, in a more typical environment now, one of many you can see online.

uplanderguy

That seals it; apparently the molding and pinstripe were that close together. I looked at the brochure online and while it listed the side molding as an option, there wasn't a single photo of a car so-equipped in the brochure.

I wasn't into sports as a kid so inhaling minutiae from car brochures is what I did. I'd say that I'm usually dead-on with Chevrolet and Pontiac, pretty reliable on other GM lines, dead-on with Studebaker, and so-so on Mopar and others.

fintail

That happens a lot with old MBs, especially late 80s or 90s era cars - they either get the number spacing wrong, or now and then put the numbers on the wrong side of the trunklid. Must have been a rush job after they finished fixing up a Camero

uplanderguy said:

My even-bigger pet peeve is on an otherwise beautifully painted/restored car, when the shop couldn't be bothered to verify where the nameplates and emblems were supposed to go. I can typically spot that kind of thing a hundred feet away (I couldn't even do that with orange peel! LOL), and it can't easily be corrected. I see that pretty often on collector cars, and even daily on everyday cars.

andre1969

My '79 base model New Yorker has that side molding, and in the same spot. However, the pinstripe runs along almost at the top of the fender. By the time it gets to the doors it's maybe 2 inches below the sill line, and then it goes straight out the back to the plastic endcap. My 5th Ave doesn't have the side molding, but it does have a pinstripe, at the same location, which incidentally is also the border of the two-toning.

On that Newport posted above, the pinstripe is running along a "soft" crease that runs the length of the car. The '79 Newport brochure shows a two-tone blue model where the pinstriping (and two-toning border) cuts through where the door handles are. Also, that Newport has the "Open Road" handling package, which consisted of 15x7 rims, 225/70 tires, and various suspension upgrades. (Either that, or its owner just found those wheels and turbine hubcaps and put them on this car) My old '79 had that package, and it handled really well for a big car. Neither of my '79 New Yorkers has it, and there's a definite difference in handling.

As for that '79 Newport in the Hemmings ad, believe it not, that's actually the cheapest interior! The next step up was vinyl (which my old Newport had), and then above that you could get a split bench, either in vinyl (which I've never seen) or an upgraded cloth that had sort of a thick corduroy texture to it, and a loose-pillow-buttoned look. I think Chrysler did a pretty good job when it came to making the interiors of these cars attractive and ritzy looking. When they were new, at least. Give it a few years, and those pull straps in the doors would usually come off. And they didn't have handles built into the armrests, so you had to use the pull-strap! Incidentally, the Hemmings Newport has screws put through the pull strap on the driver's door to keep it in place...that's not stock. But whatever works, I guess! It's a beautiful car overall, but I think the only way I'd pay $9900 for an R-body, as much as I love them, would be if it was a fully-loaded model with the 360-4bbl, or maybe an old police car that had been restored to its former glory.

jwm40517

The same dealer with the 79 Newport has a 1966 Chevy II like the one I bought in 1967 for $1900 except mine was black. He wants $75000 for his. Too bad I gave mine away in 1975.

uplanderguy

I'm a nutjob about placement of emblems and nameplates. Two or three of my Stude friends goof on me about that, and one will send me email attachments of various old cars he comes across for sale with nameplates crooked or several inches off where they are supposed to be, just to get a rise out of me!

When I dropped my white '63 Lark off at Westmoreland Studebaker in 1993, we had discussed and agreed on a 'driver' restoration but with exterior and interior authenticity as a goal. The small individual "L A R K" letters on the front fenders did not go in pre-stamped holes in the fenders...the holes had to be drilled. I told him it had to be right or I could hardly even stand to look at the car. Luckily he had two '63 Larks himself so had templates to use, and they ended up in the right place on my car. The fenders on the car when I bought it, replacement, didn't have the letters as it should have as the previous owner didn't bother, not atypical on those cars. N.O.S. were available cheaply though.

boomchek

fintail said:

That can't be a real D-type, right?

No the D Type was a replica. There was a write up sheet with the builder name but I forgot what it was.

laurasdada

Wow, some seriously beautiful iron there in Vancouver. That pride of E-Types, wow.

fintail

Spotted what I am pretty sure was a late run Fiero GT this afternoon, along with a clean smooth running W126 300SD.

imidazol97

I posted a picture of the Chevrolet 3100 pickup pulling the trailer with the 64 Vette on it. Someone asked about what engine was in the 3100 to pull that weight.

Here're two pictures of the engine compartment. I assume the AC is original and stock, but everything in it looks just as original as the Vette and the truck's body. Truck is a 1956 Chevrolet Cameo.

It was facing the late afternoon bright sun, so the pictures of the red in the engine compartment are really "hot."
I didn't do anything with Paintshop Pro to try to calm it down.

andre1969

It's a Chevy smallblock, I can tell that much. I doubt that a/c is stock though. The compressor looks fairly modern to me. When I get home I'll look under the hood of my Silverado and see what its compressor looks like. The oldest cars I've had with A/C are my '67 Catalina and my old '67 Newport. The Catalina's compressor is longer than that one, and a bit thinner, I think. The Newport used a big, bulky "V-2" compressor

Also, a/c was around a $500 or so option in 1956, so I doubt very many trucks were ordered with it. It would've been somewhat common on a Caddy, Lincoln, or Imperial. Maybe a Buick Roadmaster or Chrysler New Yorker. But on anything less, it was pretty rare, I would think.

As for that engine, some people might think it's a bit small to move that kind of weight around. But, those old rigs were usually geared to keep the engine in its peak torque range. Also, heavier trucks often used what was called in "Industrial" engine (at least in Mopar-speak), where they'd be be set up for a bit more torque, but less horsepower, and also have thicker, beefier engine blocks, better cooling systems, etc. They could move a lot of weight without self-destructing, but they wouldn't necessarily move it very quickly.

texases

Yep, that's a newer compressor, much smaller than the old GM 'swash plate' compressors.

imidazol97

How about a 265 cu in engine? And the AC is an addon? Is that an addon unit under the dash in the center?

explorerx4

I think that engine is more stock looking than stock. The radiator isn't in the stock location. There's a big AC condenser in front of it. It's looks great.

ab348

explorerx4 said:

I think that engine is more stock looking than stock. The radiator isn't in the stock location. There's a big AC condenser in front of it. It's looks great.

"Over-restored", one might say.

I checked the old brochures site and could find no reference to A/C even being offered in a Chevy truck in '56. They made a big deal over a heater.

explorerx4

@ab348, Based on the fact the truck does tow a pretty good load and the owner likes Corvettes, I'm thinking breathed on 327. Just speculation.

fintail

Kind of a resto-mod engine, looks old but is likely updated.

Today's sightings: ~90 XJS cabrio with the full gold trim package, immaculate near new looking 75-79 Nova sedan (with correct rally wheels), very clean ~85 Civic.

stever

1966 Plymouth Satellite Convertible. Forgot my camera as usual, looked a lot like this one, although I didn't notice the wheels on the one I saw in the wild:

andre1969

I actually have one of those wheels. Years ago, a guy at the Mopar show in Carlisle had a few wheels he was selling cheap, and I wanted a 15x7, which was in the batch, so he let me have them all for a song. And one of them was that style. I imagine it must be pretty rare, as I tend to associate it more with Buick, and to a lesser degree Ford, than I do with Mopar. The one I have is hardly pristine, so I doubt it's worth much.

uplanderguy

Yesterday, on a sunny, bright-blue sky day here in NE OH, saw an early, powder blue with white vinyl top Mercury Monarch Ghia two-door, very original/authentic looking. Also saw a '70 or '71 Pontiac LeMans Sport hardtop, aftermarket wheels and no wheel-opening or rocker panel moldings, as it would have been built with.

Both were moving smartly down the street.

fintail

Saw an 80s era 2 door Jetta, not many of those around.

stever

Old Mini, either being worked on or the plates fell off.

stickguy

those tires sure aren't stock!

fintail

Today saw a pristine red 380SL with Euro bumpers and correct chrome bundts - chic from 1982, a white 560SL with correct chrome flat face wheels - chic from 1987, a couple of decent looking W123s, and a pre-86 New Yorker Turbo convertible (not a Gran Detroit Farm and Country Turbo).

ab348

Watching the hype-fest known as Barrett-Jackson for the 4 hours it is on Discovery. I guess I am just jaded or tired of it all because the hype is just barf-inducing. I was happy to see a '70 4-4-2 W-30 convertible bring $125K or $130K but when the camera panned past the interior the white bucket seat plastic backs were badly yellowed. Cripes. Most of the cars crossing the block do not appeal to me at all at the prices they get and in many cases not at any price. I find the presentation really hasn't changed all that much from the Speed Channel days although I find Chris Jacobs obnoxious and the constant promo to subscribe to Velocity off-putting.

fintail

Somehow, some of the bidders always look kind of sketchy too. Less rich drunk boomers than in the past, but that still has to be the key demographic. Seems like the last place I'd want to buy a car, but many cars I like would never show up there.

I was able to tolerate about half an hour the other day - prices didn't seem too huge. The Toronado GT was cool, and a lightly optioned 08 S-class (what was that doing there?) brought a market correct price.

For obscure cars, saw a DeLorean in traffic today.

ab348 said:

Watching the hype-fest known as Barrett-Jackson for the 4 hours it is on Discovery. I guess I am just jaded or tired of it all because the hype is just barf-inducing. I was happy to see a '70 4-4-2 W-30 convertible bring $125K or $130K but when the camera panned past the interior the white bucket seat plastic backs were badly yellowed. Cripes. Most of the cars crossing the block do not appeal to me at all at the prices they get and in many cases not at any price. I find the presentation really hasn't changed all that much from the Speed Channel days although I find Chris Jacobs obnoxious and the constant promo to subscribe to Velocity off-putting.