I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

PF_Flyer

Just when you think you've seen it all...

Driving on I-80 in north Jersey, and I pass a van with diagonal racing stripes up the sides of the van, capped off by an aluminum wing atop the hatch. Those appeared to be the only mods, no custom color or anything else. Just a run of the mill maroon minivan with that stuff slapped on... too funny!

Mr_Shiftright

Saw a lovely Maverick yesterday. Hand-painted in a subtle industrial orange, this machine sported a Kragen sunroof with a unique kitchen cabinet handle epoxied to it (rare option!). Interior was fitted with custom, high quality "cow" seat-savers, and special high-speed "Thriftmaster" radials were installed for autobahn use.

Future Zimmer owner?

jrosasmc

Eh, Mavericks weren't all that bad back in their day. (Or were they?)

andre1969

Mavericks were usually rated very high in reliability by the likes of Consumer Reports. Main area where they came up short was in comfort and interior room. However, they were also much smaller and lighter than a GM or Mopar compact, so that was to be expected. Engines were either inline 6'es or 302 V-8's, and, except for a propensity to slip into gear when parked, I don't think Ford's automatic trannies were bad back then. They had a H-U-G-E tranny/driveshaft hump though, something that plagued most of Ford's smaller cars of the time, like the Maverick/Granada and anything Fairmont-based. They weren't that great for taller drivers.

PF_Flyer

It had been a long time since I had seen a VW microbus, but there it was on the road ahead of me, looking like a good wind just was going to topple it over at any moment! Actually looked almost brand new. Looked EXACTLY like this...


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lemko

...a black 1975 Oldsmobile Delta 88 convertible and a beautiful two-tone blue 1953 Pontiac two-door sedan.

Mr_Shiftright

A fully restored 23 window VW micrvan can bring well over $20,000!!!

One reason for this is that they are very VERY tough to restore properly, I mean to show condition.

andys120

In the space of a few hours this AM I saw a Ford F-150 from the Fifties, red and very tall looking apparently quite original.

Then an original looking '55 or '56 Mercury HT coupe, white over faded turquoise. I couldn't tell if it was a runner.

Also- A bustle-trunk Caddy Seville in decent shape parked at a mall and a nice looking yellow '65 or '66 Olds Cutlass 'vert on a used car lot that gets interesting cars.

jrosasmc

One of my classmates and close friends here at school drives an '84 Saab 900 Turbo sedan. Yes, one of the dreaded early 900s. The thing is, this car has 87k original miles on it, is in pristine condition both inside and outside, and has no cracks whatsoever on the dash (a common problem to all '79-93 900s). What's more, it's an automatic and has the original tranny in it. I'm saying it's obscure because very rarely does one see an early 900 in that condition. I'll post a pic of the car if I have time.

Oh yeah I did notice one problem while looking at it...it was about 77 last Saturday and she had trouble starting it. I think it was because of the crude fuel injection system Saab put on their cars in the 80s.

andys120

Maybe not, Jros. IIRC Saab used the same Bosch EFI system featured in the top German makes which means it was one of the more sophisticated for the times. Saabs have generally been "cutting edge" when it comes to engine management.

I'll certainly agree that a pristine '84 900T is rare. There are lots of them around but they usually look well-used up, like most 20 y/o cars.

fintail

Vegas was interesting for cars. The sun must kill cars there...I saw so few pre-1990 cars on the road.

I saw a lot of exotics, but I suspect most of them were rentals, so I don't give those much credit. I did see a couple late model Lamborghinis that might have been owner-driven.

I kept mainly to the strip...I did see a pretty nice original W108 280SE sedan in silver, very elegant compared to the dorky low class SUVS with blingy wheels that are a Vegas trademark. I saw a mildly customized 65 Lincoln convert that looked decent...lowered a little, chrome wheels, black on black. It could have been worse. I saw an immaculate W123 240D on the strip at about 1am one day, and an immaculate black on black 560SEL in valet parking at my hotel. I saw a number of nice cars at the Imperial Palace museum, I will post some pics later. Didn't see a single fintail!

jrosasmc

I'll agree with you on that one Andy.

In terms of Saab engine management, I've heard about the failures of many DI (Direct Ignition) cassettes on the newer Saabs from various owners.

michaellno

I'll go one better ... had a former co-worker who is totally into Saab's. He bought, I believe, an '84 900 Turbo ($20K cash!) and, when I knew him ('95 or '96), it only had 20,000 miles on it! It was only driven on sunny days and is garaged probably 300+ days a year.

He always had a second car to use as daily transporation -- first an old Subaru, then he bought a used N/A 900 (an early 90's 3-door, I think). He bought the tech manuals for both cars and does the maintenance himself. A total OCD personality.

He absolutely hated the fact that GM was getting a controlling interest in Saab, too.

fintail

Here's some Vegas pics. They aren't the best quality, as they are either from the camera phone, or are from the museum where I turned off my flash to prevent glare. It seems with that camera, no flash = blurry. Anyway, there were some nice oddballs, here are ones I thought worthy of photographing:

Early postwar Delahaye, had electric gear change

Nice open Bentley

Early SS/Jaguar

Competition Jaguar

Lovely Duesy

Phantom II

Another nice Bentley

Big engined Bentley sedan

French bodied Bentley coupe

Elegant 1960s Phantom

Another Duesy

Open 50s Bentley

Duesy with odd body

58 Buick Limited in amazing condition

Crappy pic of beautiful Bentley Continental

Van Den Plas Princess...out of place among some more regal models

Late MB Adenauer Cabrio

Another open Bentley

Pretty Hudson

Early 50s 220 Cabrio

Lovely early 500SEL originally owned by Tom Jones. This is a full load 1981 Euro model with airbag and period correct accessory wheels. With 72K on it and an asking price of like $17K, you could do worse

Ferdinand Marcos' armored 500SEL. They claim it's an 88, but it's actually maybe an 84. I wanted to talk to someone there about it

Big '60 Eldo

Howard Hughes' Chrysler

Pretty "Chinese Eye" Bentley

Monster of a Renault

Silver Cloud III convert...class all the way

Early postwar custom Rolls

Nice 58 Impala parked on the strip

560SEL at hotel

Dark Lamborghini at hotel

New Phantom, maybe owned by the Venetian. It was in the same spot for over a day

Silly stupid H2 limo

andys120

known as Corniches? Great pix Fintail.

fintail

I think the Corniche name didn't come around until the Silver Shadow converts c.1967. But I could be wrong

I was so tempted by that ex Tom Jones 500SEL. Two cars is too many as it is, though.

Mr_Shiftright

Question is, is Tom Jones worth triple retail price?

fintail

Do you know of any pristine highline low mile early 126s in good color combinations going for 5 grand? I'd like to find a mint 1980 or 1981 production model with airbag and ABS, for historical value as much as anything else.

The price is steep for anyone but a 126 enthusiast. It'd be better at like 10 for sure, but mint late 126s are still bringing that. This is more unusual.

I'd be worried about the maintenance if anything. I suspect it's been sitting for a long time.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, I think I could find them that cheap all the day long. I don't know about this or that color, but that doesn't matter for value. The cars go begging. They might *ask* higher prices but you bring the cash and you'll get all you want for $5,000. Why? More cars than buyers.

In terms of value (not talking about engineering or merit) it's a nothing car on the used car market I'm afraid.

The point is that what you care about as an enthusiastic and knowledgable person means little to most people, so the market is not affected. Supply and demand is what drives it.

Here are two I found, and I bet with cash you could get your $5K car: (I didn't post phone #s to conform to Town Hall rules, but you can go to www.traderonline.com).

1981 MERCEDES BENZ 500SEL GAS V8, VERY CLEAN, 189 MILES, FIRESTONE, AIRBAGS, 18 GIOVANNA RIMS, AMG SPOILERS, REMUS EXHAUST, PEARL PAINT, EURO LIGHTS $8, 500.
Date Placed:
03-SEP-04

------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------
 
Add To Saved Auto CHICAGO, IL $6,000
1982 MERCEDES BENZ 500SEL V8, P/WINDOWS, REBUILT ENGINE, NEW EXHAUST GREAT CON., $6, 000 OR BEST OFFER.

fintail

I'd be leery of that first car, people who maintain a MB properly don't do such mods. And 126s can get rusty, so Chicago would be out of it too unless the car was garaged. This car was in exceptional condition. You could get one that appears as nice to most people...but I don't know if you could get one that would fool a MB person. I keep an eye out for early models on local lots, and it is hard to find a nice one, and impossible to find a full option load. I think it is no supply and no demand. No cars and no buyers. This was a mint original car I saw in Vegas...I'd say I've never seen a nicer early 126.

Most cars at the Imperial were woefully overpriced, so I dont doubt that 126 is...but it is less way out than others.

ghulet

...doesn't ABS and airbags necessarily mean the car is gray market, and thus has engines that are non-NA spec? I guess I'm wondering how difficult it would be to get parts and service on a Euro 500SEL at your average dealer or even at your favorite Euro-car repair shop. Do they pass emissions, and thus is registering one in the U.S. a problem?

Some of those earlier Euro 126s are strangely equipped, to say the least. About ten years ago, I test drove an '80 280SE here. Nice enough car, but it had power front windows but manual rears, no sunroof, velour seats, but it did have ABS, IIRC.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail, at the risk of being a spoil sport, most museum cars are really not very good. The inactivity really screws them up, and more often than not they are aging beauties with heavy cosmetics that start to crack upon very close inspection (most observers can't get that close).

I think you are second-guessing the quality of what is out there. I feel confident you could buy a cream puff 500SEL for $5,000 if you really focus on it. Remember, you are dealing with a seller who sees a buyer responding to his ad about once a year.

But you're right, you don't see them very often because basically not many found their way to the US in the first place.

fintail

Yers, that's a grey market car. I don't think the 500SEL made it here til 84. But it did make it here, parts wouldn't be a problem. Emissions equipment was usually added on at time of importation, and the car was delivered to California when it was new, so it must have been OK.

I know inactivity can kill an old MB, that'd be the only fly in the ointment. It's just otherwise impossible to find a really loaded car like that in such condition, that's why I want to give it the benefit of the doubt. "Cream puff" might mean different things to different people. I'm very particular about condition.

Funny you mention that early 280SE ghulet...there's one sitting on a used lot here right now. It's the lower spec velour, it has hubcaps, no sunroof, but it has ABS as well. It's in fair condition, the dealer claims it is mechanically good, almost rustfree (early 126s go at the wheelarches)...asking price is only like $2500.

Mr_Shiftright

I always like the 280SE coupe 2.8. These cars ride so nice, and are built to last 100 years.

jrosasmc

But if you want to make those Benzes last you obviously will have to be willing to spend some money on them.

fintail

If only a 126 280SE sedan was like a 280SE coupe, in desireablility and style

Mr_Shiftright

Well you don't buy a 280SE coupe that needs work. That's a bad idea. You buy the best one you can find that somebody ELSE has put all the money in.

The 280SE coupes and convertibles have a "pecking order":

least desirable are the 2.8 six cylinder "high grille cars" and most desirable are the "low grille" 3.5 convertibles.

A really pristine "no questions" 280SE 3.5 cabriolet can bust $80,000 right now, but a high grille 2.8 stalls at about $40,000.

Amazing difference because of a grille and a motor, huh?

andys120

aren't really that rare around NE but I happened to see two on the same road, one was tired looking, light blue and hanging off the back of a wrecker. The other had shiny maroon paint straight bodywork and trim and was moving thru traffic under it's own power.

And just for contrast, a 1968 Pontiac GTO convertible
looking very nice but out of place on a used car lot dominated by high-line imports, mostly BMWs. In metallic red it looked quite similar to the '70 Goat 'vert I owned at one time.

kyfdx

http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=2705- 2&sortby=_DATE&dir=DESC

You can follow another link after that.. that gives you pictures and all kinds of info.. It sounds like he was a fanatic about the car, but it does have 168K on it..

My apologies if this link is out of line..

thanks,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright

Looks good but I wouldn't buy it without seeing it first. 168K is serious miles so I'd need to know that the car wasn't all worn out in suspension, blowing smoke, etc. Also would like to look more closely at that little bit of rust.

Fairly obscure car in my neck of the woods.

fintail

And then a 220SE cabrio, identical to the 280SE 6cyl in everything but 600cc, is worth even less. Fickle, those MB prices.

That old red BMW looks really nice.

andys120

a guy at work just bought a '95 Chevy Beretta w 95k on it. It's rare to see one now but it's even rarer to see one that has shiny paint, no scratches or nicks and good upholstery like this silver example.

I asked him if there was any substantive difference between that and the contemporary Cavalier and he said probably none.

What was GM thinking? IIRC they made Berettas for about a decade (mid 80-s-mid 90s).

jrosasmc

You really don't see that many older 318is coupes in your area?

Here's an obscure car I spotted today: a late '60s Datsun 1600 roadster. Looked pretty tired and ratty but it was still being driven. I don't know much about them except for two things: 1) Unlike British roadsters they actually ran for long periods of time; 2) Because of the thin-gauge construction I wouldn't want to be in an accident with one.

kyfdx

I think they only made that 318is for just a couple of years... '91 and maybe '90, though not sure about that.. I remember when it was new in '91, it had a base price of $19.9 (I think). It sounds like he's had that one for most of those miles. Normally, I turn and run from cars with that many miles, but if you look through to the second link, and scroll down, he gives some more detail on the car... It sounds like he is a fanatic about keeping it in good shape... It wouldn't be quite as nice as a 325is, but those can be pretty pricy, if in comparable shape, and the 4-cylinder is fun to rev out...

It is just a boatload of miles... best looking one I've seen, as least from the pictures.

Thanks,
kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright

It's a boatload, and that drags the price down into the dirt.

 I rarely see 318s in the Bay Area anymore. I think they've all gone to car heaven.

ghulet

...I'm almost certain the E30 with the 16v was only built for MY 1991, unless you count the convertible, which, true to recent BMW tradition, carried over with the old body style for '92 also. I see a fair amount in Chicago, generally not in the greatest condition, but still running at least. The nice thing, IMO anyway, is that they're ALL (iS coupe, convertible and 4-door) 5-speed manuals, IIRC. I don't know if BMW was trying to introduce the new engine and 'get the bugs out' before they put it in the new-for-'92 (E36) body, or if they were just trying to move some old-body merchandise with the lower priced 4-cylinder models? Or maybe neither and I'm just being cynical. It just strikes me as strange that they'd bring out a 'new' model and engine in a lame-duck body style.

Mr_Shiftright

Fact is, very few Americans liked the 318i.

ghulet

...enough of them were sold here mostly because of the badge mixed with the relatively low price, just like countless other low-level 'luxury' cars (190Es and 924s come to mind). Still, I imagine the 'second' 318i (134hp) was a whole barnburner compared to the 100hp version of 1983-85, or even to the 325e of that period.

jrosasmc

Remember the 1980-82 version of the 320i with the 1.8-liter from the later 318? I drove an '81 5-speed once and needless to say it was a dog.

jrosasmc

Another bizarre sighting today: an early '70s Toyota Celica puttering around on a back road here in VT. And I thought all the '70s Toyotas in the Northeast had gone to the crusher by now. The Celica, by the way, looked real nice.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the 318i wasn't enough car for the money, just like the 320i wasn't worth the money either.

jrosasmc

Have you seen a recently-published book called "Automotive Atrocities" yet? In it there are turkeys such as:

early Benz 190Es ('84-'90)
Dodge Omni
late '70s Corvettes
Maserati Biturbos
Ford Pinto

andyman73

I have to beg to differ in ref. to the 352e. I had an 85, and it was fully loaded, with 5 speed. Before the Dinan chip, it would easily do the 128 governed top speed. And I could chirp 2nd, and leave twin stripes, as it had a LSD. It came factory with 120hp, and @170-175 ftlbs of torque. With a chip, K&N filter charger kit, and Jacobs Electronics ignition system, I could chirp 1st through 4th gear, and would do @155mph. It handled quite well, and the 4 wheel discs did their job well, also. Like they say, your performance and mileage may differ. I miss my Beemer.

Andy

jrosasmc

325e's I have no problem with. It's the 528e automatic versions that are real poor in acceleration.

jlawrence01

Dodge Omni ...

Compared to other subcompacts available at the time was NOT a bad car. We used to tool around the hills in Cincinnati in the snow easily while most spun out.

The problem was that the car was so completely poorly made - usually the nameplate fell off within the first 5k miles - that it was possible to enjoy.

But for a small car, it had pep.

andys120

The OmniRizon also had the worst torque steer of any car I've driven before or since. I found this when I drove one that a friend of mine bought. He traded a VW Bug in on it and I thought he got the worst of the deal.

andys120

bring out the best of the old iron. This AM I saw--

A '48-/'49 Cadillac 4-dr Fastback in just perfect
shape with black bodywork. Seeing one of those takes me back to when I first became aware of cars. I didn't know much but a new a Caddyak
was the best.

A Dodge Power Wagon P'up in similarly perfect shape with a bright red cab and black fenders and bed.

fintail

My dad had a Horizon when I was very young, and he loved the thing. He still talks about it being fun to drive.

I saw this sight today...where 924s go to die:

Mr_Shiftright

Good, the sooner the better. Not worthy of the name "Porsche".

jrosasmc

Eww, all those derelict 924s look horrible with a capital H!