I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

for a 1975 Imperial LeBaron 4-door hardtop? A friend of a friend of mine is selling one that's supposed to be pristine. He used the term "fully restored", although we all know how interpretive that can be! Anyway, it's silver with a red interior, and I think he wants something like $5-5.5K for it.

My first thought was hell no, I don't need it, but the more I think about it, maybe it's time to move up from that little downsized New Yorker of mine...

Mr_Shiftright

Well it would have to be nearly a show car for that price, and there not much chance of appreciation in the future---but on the other hand, the value has probably sunk as low as it ever will get.

Most cars rated as "pristine" by sellers turn out to be merely "good" by actual collector car standards. If it is in "good" condition, a number 3 car (defined as a nice car with evidence of minor wear and tear as one might find on a 4-5 year old car), then it is actually worth more like $3,500.

So if you can spot little dings and bits of tarnish and wear spots on the carpet and road dirt under the chassis and some light oil film on the engine or under it and a dirty trunk and stars in the windshield,--or if there are mechnical issues, you can start deducting from the top price--which is what he is asking---high retail.

If it's a beauty, well then maybe it's worth it. I suspect he has researched all this already, since his asking price is market correct for a top quality car. The question is whether he has evaluated his car correctly or not.

andys120

are IMO among the most beautiful ever made. It's true that they look frumpy and old-fashioned compared to the more "modern" cars of the mid-50s
but I believe that the decade from 1925 to 1935 saw the transformation of the automobile from
"horseless carriage" to "car" as we understand the term.

lemko

...far-out designs as well. Does anybody remembet the 1938-40 Graham "Spirit of Motion" cars derisively called the "Sharknose?" How about the very elegant Pierce Silver Arrow or the minivan-like Stout Scarab?

andre1969

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2487849326

I was lured in at first by the pretty 2-tone green paintjob, but once I saw the interior and under-hood shots, and read the description, I've come to the determination that someone in Texas needs to be tarred and feathered!!

lemko

...what's with the aftermarket steering wheel, shift lever, and what is that yellow button in place of the transmission push buttons? Where is the original air cleaner? The modern stereo? A Chevy engine in a Mopar? Where was this car previously, Cuba? At least the guy has some of the original parts to undo the monstrous crimes perpetrated on this otherwise nice vehicle. I'd look for a more original vehicle than undertake restoring this vehicle to its proper condition. You'd never get your money back. How about that '56 Chrysler at Macungie? That car would be a better choice.

andre1969

not just the original air cleaner, but what about the engine that's underneath it?! That's a Chevy 350 under the hood!!

The interior design is all wrong, too. Fireflites has a much more intricate seat pattern that had jacquard fabric (I think that's what it was called), with touches of vinyl and even leather. And I always remembered the Fireflite as having an armrest on the door that was more integrated into the design, instead of just bolted on.

andre1969

that '56 Chrysler at Macungie was really sweet! Even though it was just a 4-door!

andys120

Perhaps there's more than one Texas village that's missing it's idiot, Andre? <;^P

-----
I passed a Gen II VW Bus this weekend with the once-obligatory crude hippy-dippy artwok adorning the front and sides of the vehicle.

I also saw a Gen I Camry (ca. 1983-4?)being pushed onto the lift at a gas station. There aren't many of those left.

andys120

I got a good look at a parked Ford Model A this w/end. Unlike most that you see this, was a Fordor Sedan, medium olive green with black wire wheels and black fenders.

I especially liked that it wasn't over-restored with really shiny paint but had a patina about it so it looked like one you might've encountered on the streets ca. 1936 or so.

jaserb

Driving down the freeway, weaving in and out through traffic -
a 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 sedan. Absolutely enormous, white, in good condition. Did I mention that it was absolutely enormous? I don't know much about these things, but it had a very large "opera" window behind the rear doors. The FLEETWOOD script on the side was in block letters, which a quick google leads me to believe it was a '76. Would this have had the 500 V8? Wouldn't want to feed that beast with $2/gal gas.

-Jason

Mr_Shiftright

That "weaving" wasn't intentional

ghulet

....today I saw a '70 Ford LTD convertible, red with white interior, in nice shape. Also, there's been a fintail of some variety, with a good body, sitting at my local old Benz repair shop, for the past few weeks. Red body with unfortunate dark tinted windows all around, which are illegal in Chicago.

Also saw a Ford Ikon, I think? Never seen one, I drove by it kinda quickly, it was parked, so I could barely read the nameplate. Basically a very small, generic looking sedan, along the lines of a Kia Rio or Hyundai Accent. Looked perhaps a few years old.

andre1969

yup, that beast had the 500 CID V-8. Cadillac dropped the 472 after 1974, leaving only the 500. In '75 it had 190 hp, but in '76 there was a 215 hp option, which I think was fuel injected.

As for the Fleetwood 75, it was a mammoth 151.5" wheelbase battlecruiser that started at $14,889 in 1976. Weight started at 5,746 lb, and it was actuallly a factory limo model, with jump seats in the back in front of the real back seat.

There was another Fleetwood model offered in the 70's that was on a shorter 133" wheelbase. It was big and prestigious and pimpy (and in '75-76 also had small rectangular windows in the C-pillar), but it wasn't a limo...just a very long 6-passenger sedan!

lemko

The Fleetwood on the 133" wheelbase was the Fleetwood Brougham. The 151" wheelbase car was the Fleetwood Seventy-Five. I had a 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Wheelbase was 130." When Cadillac downsized its cars in 1977, the Fleetwoods and DeVilles shared the same 121" wheelbase and the Fleetwood Seventy-Five had a 147" wheelbase. The last Cadillac factory limousine was the 1979 model. Ditto the last Cadillac ambulance.

Andre, you most definately have to get the latest edition of "Collectible Automobile." It features not only the last 1960-61 DeSotos but also the 1978-81 Chevrolet Malibu coupes.

fintail

I don't even think about driving characteristics when I look at 30s cars. I expect most of them to be pretty horrible (although the MB 170 from 1931-on might be one of the better of the era, with 4 wheel independent suspension). It's all about the looks, the trendsetters, and the way the cars aged.

"...far-out designs as well. Does anybody remembet the 1938-40 Graham "Spirit of Motion" cars derisively called the "Sharknose?" How about the very elegant Pierce Silver Arrow or the minivan-like Stout Scarab? "

I know all those, yes. The first two were pretty cool...although the Graham had an interesting front and not much else. The Scarab was odd...there was a theory abounding in the 30s about a design like that, and I think Fuller spawned some knockoffs. I know MB contemplated a similar car.

Shame about that DeSoto. Way to wreck a car.

Ford Ikon...that's a tinny little sedan for India/Africa I believe. Now there's an odd sight.

grbeck

The Ford Ikon is sold in India. I don't know if it is sold in Africa.

I wouldn't mind trying a flathead V-8 Ford from the 1930s. The mechanical brakes on the pre-1939 models would be scary, but the V-8 and stickshift would probably be fun. The drivetrain and solid front axle would give a much more "direct" driving experience than what we are used to in 2004.

Whatever their driving characteristics, those Fords sure are a pleasure to behold. Edsel Ford had a great sense of style.

andre1969

yeah, I have that issue of Collectible Automobile. I enjoyed the write-up of the '78-81 Malibu coupe, as well. That's actually something I've been saying for years, that while not a classic in the purest sense, the 'Bu has become a bit of a minor collectible. It's also very hot among the rodders, as you can put any engine Chevy ever built into it. Although when new, the 350 was the biggest engine offered, and it was only in '78-79, and ostensibly only offered in wagons. However, back in high school I knew a guy with two-tone brown-over-creme 1979 Classic coupe that had a 350, and he said it was stock. I guess you could special order them.

I've also heard that the '81 Newport/Gran Fury/St. Regis/New Yorker were no longer available with a 360, but I've seen a few of them with 360's, and their owners told me they came from the factory that way. So maybe sometimes they'd drop options from the catalogs, but if you ponied up enough money, or knew the right person, you could still get the engine you wanted?

kyfdx

I know this isn't old, but it is the first one I've seen on the road... Special edition with 240 HP V6 and 4-motion all-wheel-drive.. A little body kit action, but very tasteful.. I think these start around $30K, which is a lot for a Rabbit!!

lemko

...a very nice looking 1973 Buick Centurion convertible. This car was maroon with a white top and the chrome 15" factory wheels.

PF_Flyer

During my chauffeur duties with the kids this morning, I was kind of surprised to see a 1955 Studebaker wagon coming the other way. Didn't get a chance to see if it had the PA "antique car" plates on it. Most of the time youonly see these kind of things out on weekends given the restrictions those plates put on driving the classics.

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andre1969

I went through a bunch of old pictures that my grandmother had packed away in a trunk. Here's one that I found, of the house that I now live in, taken back in pre-historic times. The top of the pic said 1965, which would be when it was developed, but my grandmother thinks it was taken much longer ago than that. Warning: I scanned it at a high dpi, so it might take awhile to load!

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/4019e8c8_fe29/bc/My+Documents/12112DL- _1965.jpg?bffO3KBBEbDzna0f

Parked out beside it is a '53 Chevy. Pretty obscure today, but once as common as fleas on a junkyard dog. I asked my grandmother about the car, and she doesn't remember it. Her aunt and uncle used to live in this house until he died in '60, and she moved in with my grandparents. So it might have been her aunt and uncle's car, or it might have belonged to someone who rented it in later years.

wimsey1

The other day I saw a very nice looking Microbus pickup (Transporter? is that the name). Those have to be rare on the road. Was an early one, flat windscreens, V-nose.

One group of '30's cars I have come to appreciate are some of the French custom bodies. Fignoni & Falaschi's Talbot-Lago coupes make XK-120's look a bit dowdy. They were the "Kings of Swoop", IMHO.

kyfdx

Nice picture... thank goodness for a T1 line at work..

andys120

I saw a red '67 or '68 SS with black stripes yesterday. No CID emblem, guess it was a 350 and today I spotted the same '69 Z28 I saw last summer on the same lot, yellow w black stripes.

They're asking $30k which seems like a lot, prolly why they haven't moved it in a year.

Also an '80ish ElCamino with Camaro wheels and a nice custom two-tone grey into blue fade paint job.

fintail

I saw a kind of oddball today, a decent looking BMW 2002. I see it daily, at the building next to my work. It's identical to the car Jack Lemmon drove in the China Syndrome. Not a bad looking old beast. In the same parking lot also lives a very clean 79-81 Malibu 2 door, in an unfortunate dark brown with tan vinyl roof, and deluxe wheel covers.

Did you remove the pic, Andre? The link isn't working now.

Speaking of 30s Fords, I was looking at some yesterday, and I think the 37 is very sharp, nice front end. One would want hydraulic brakes though (i think they are mechanical anyway).

And here's an obscure car from my family collection...it's the only old car photo I have been unable to ID. Taken in 1913, featuring my great grandmother and great great grandfather.

http://img35.exs.cx/img35/8687/ggrancar.jpg

andre1969

When I read your post from home, I tried clicking that link and it didn't work either. But for some reason, it seems to be functioning here at work!

If that link still doesn't work for you, if you go to http://briefcase.yahoo.com/andre_1969, it's in a folder called My Documents, and it's entitled 12112DL_1965.

I guess I need to find a more reliable image host! I have an MSN image host, but I can't post pictures to it from work!

fintail

Cool, it worked. Old candid photo album photos are often very interesting.

andre1969

I was shocked at all the old pics I found. I was actually looking for some pics of my house that were taken sometime between 1937 and 1946. I can narrow it down to that point, because there's a '37 Plymouth parked next to it, but another shot looks across a field where my grandmother's house now stands, and it was built in '46.

I have a feeling my mother would kill me if she knew I had this on the web...


It's her, when she was about 14, posing on the hood of a '63 Catalina 'vert that some friends of my grandparents owned. It must have had a profound effect on her, because her first new car was a '66 Catalina 'vert.

jrosasmc

Is that your '68 Dart in your collection of web pics? If it is, I must say, it looks to be in great shape for a '68! I was at a local car show last night and they had a '67 Dart there with a 273, but it was orange and didn't look that great.

While I was in Florida last week I had the opportunity to drive my uncle's friend's '71 Ford LTD he was trying to sell. Was I in for a surprise...I was totally unprepared for the slow overassisted steering, mushy handling around corners, and the bad braking. Since I've been driving my early '90s Volvo I've been so used to the tight feel of European vehicles; it had been a while since I had driven an American car.

andre1969

yeah, that's how it looked back in April of 1995, when I drove out to see some friends in Oklahoma. I think it had about 285,000 miles on it at the time. Unfortunately now, 9 years later, and a couple of fender benders, and now over 338,000 miles, it doesn't look so hot!

fintail

That's a nice Pontiac pic, it looks very period, the car must have been pretty new.

My grandfather got shots of most cars he owned, especially a red 65 Chrysler that he really liked. Unfortunately, my father didn't follow suit, maybe because he had some really unremarkable cars in the 70s and 80s..

andre1969

I think that pic was developed in August 1963, so that car was pretty new. Looking back, I'm surprised at how few pictures my Mom took of her '66 Catalina. I know I've seen old pictures that happened to have the car in it, but nothing actually highlighting the car. And I've never seen a pic of her '57 Plymouth or her '59 Rambler station wagon, that was a 2-tone black and pink. But I guess that would lose quite a bit in the translation to black and white film! And the only pics I can remember of my Dad's '62 Corvette was after he wrecked it!

I guess most of the masses just don't love cars the way we do here on Edmunds!

andre1969

that would probably embarass my mother...


I'm not sure what year this Model A is, though. I think it belonged to one of our neighbors in back, who was always into old cars. I know in later years he had a few Model A's that ended up getting 350's under the hood!

I think it's also interesting how small the number is on the tag. 521. I guess there weren't that many antique cars in Maryland back then! Today the antique tags are 6 characters. I think they all start with "L" (at least every antique tag I ever got did), followed by a 5 digit number.

andys120

Model As were made for a relatively short period.
IIRC, MYs 1928-1931.

The olive Fordor A I posted about looked very much like the car in your photo.

wimsey1

I saw a '60's Pontiac convert yesterday. Yellow, a bit rough looking but going down the road just fine. I'm afraid I don't know the year and can't tell a Bonnie from a Catalina.
My wife saw a Bugeye Sprite the other day, racer on a trailer.

lemko

...I spotted a red 1961 Austin-Healey at Green Lane Park in NW Montgomery County this past Sunday.

andys120

seen today:

-Fiat X 1/9 in what appeared to be good driver condition, targa roof open.

-Volvo 1800ES in similat condition and nearly the same shade of red as the Fiat.

...and a butchered up '68 Mustang 'vert in an awful shade of blue with silly looking non-period wire wheels (not covers). Somebody save this car before it's too late!

turboshadow

Not obscure, but I just saw a 300M with a vinyl top. My eyes are still bleeding.

Turboshadow

andre1969

brought a nice black Dodge Mirada CMX to Carlisle a few years back. That's the model that has the carriage roof on it. The nicest thing that happened to it was when that roof came loose and took flight on the interstate!

lemko

...what does it look like when that roof disappears? I saw a car with a rotting carriage roof and there was an ugly fiberglass form underneath that looks like the same stuff used on my grandmother's patio roof.

ghulet

...in the past few days, I've seen the following:

'80s Mitsubishi Tredia sedan
'68 Chevelle 300 Deluxe four-door (rare, as most Chevelles were Malibus) in really good shape
76-ish Town Coupe, in that funky cornflower blue

Dammit, I have to start keeping a pen and paper in the car so I can remember what I've seen because I always forget by the time I get home. There were quite a few others but I'm drawing a blank right now.

jlawrence01

A souped up bright red Cadillac Allante

kyfdx

Blue '76 Town coupe... I know the color exactly. My parents had TWO of them.. one in that blue and one red/maroon.. both with white leather. 460-V8..

jrosasmc

I drove a car similar to your parents' Lincolns last week: a '71 Ford LTD sedan. The ride was buttery-smooth, but the steering, braking and handling left something to be desired.

andre1969

It actually didn't look too bad with the carriage roof off. I think I know what you're talking about though, with those fiberglass forms. Those were mainly used to give the impression of a bulkier, more formal C-pillar with a vertical backlite. The M-body 5th Avenue used them, to distinguish it from the Gran Fury/Diplomat. I think some of the '79-91 Grand Marquises had them as well...I remember some models had a thicker C-pillar than others. And the Caprice Brougham LS of around 1986-1990 used it.

Oh yeah, I've been trying to keep a mental tab of the oldest car I've spotted driving around, both foreign and domestic. The oldest domestic I spotted was a '77 or so (it still had round headlights) Chevy Nova. This was a luxury model, with the chromier vertical grille, vinyl roof, extra trim, and Rally wheels. The brown paint was faded and oxidized, but I didn't see much of a sign of rust. Maybe that's why brown was so common in the 70's? ;-)

As for import, last night I spotted an old 70's Datsun, I think it was a B10 or 210 or something like that? I didn't get close enough to it to really make it out, but it was tiny, and it was a 2-door hatchback, but kind of sleek. It wasn't the funky, alien-looking 200SX, and it wasn't that goofy FWD F-10 (?) model.

kyfdx

Well... back in the old days, the Lincolns were a little better than the Fords.. My first car was a '70 Galaxie 500 that I bought in '76... Believe me, that car was light years away from the Lincoln.. But, almost anything of that age is scary compared to modern cars. Plus age and miles make a big difference..

Of course, my Galaxie had 113K miles when I got it!!

regards,
kyfdx

lemko

...a 1968 Pontiac Grand Prix in my workplace's parking lot. It was white with a black vinyl top and interior. It had Texas plates and appeared to be a well-preserved original condition car. This was the last of the massive GPs before Pontiac switched the car to the A-body platform.

Also saw a restored red 1967 Chevrolet Camaro with a black top and Cragar wheels.

andys120

One of the massively oversized and poorly styled
Big 'Stangs of the '70-73 generation. This one was light blue and very clean, complete with front air dam and rear wing. If you see one of these next to the sublime '65 version you wonder how Ford could get the Pony Concept so far off course in just five years.

Sadly, the worst was yet to come (Pinto-based Mustang IIs).

jrosasmc

Hey I actually like the bigger '71-73 Mustang style. I think it gives the car character akin to, say, an LTD or T-bird of the same vintage.