I think that '59 DeSoto is an interesting study of how the 50's were slowly starting to evolve into the 60's. The two-toning was definitely getting toned down, as it was becoming common to see the body and roof the same color, with the contrasting color limited to the spear on the side. And even that side spear was smaller than what the accent had been in '55-58. By '60, on the DeSoto at least, I believe any two-toning was limited to just the roof, as the side trim was now just a chrome spear.
Another trend is how they started making the body a bit blockier, front and rear. And also, working the headlights into the grille a bit. I think that's one thing that really separated the 50's from the 60's, is when the headlights were finally in line with the car grilles, rather than above them.
Saw a white XK120 FHC going north on 405, left lane (which was only moving ~35). Also forgot to mention the other day I spotted a late run Citroen DS, grey and white, very nice condition.
Regarding design, there's definitely an "overstyling" trend recently - I blame Bangle with his flame surfacing and bustles, and the sycophant copycat world of design where everyone ends up mimicing it.
Went on a MBCA tour, fairly wide assortment of cars - not trailer queens. Also saw some old cars driving around the park - 3x Model A (2x victoria), ~65 Comet convertible, Testarossa (it and the Comet waved at me), and before the drive, a woman driving a customized ~52 Chevy panel truck chatted me up about the fintail - she knew enough to call it a "fintail", which was shocking to me.
Here are some highlights from the drive:
Lovely low grille (and AC!) 280SE cabrio - front license plate states the car has driven the length of Route 66, the owner is enjoying this classic beast rather than storing it away:
A wide variety:
More stuff - I was second in age to the 190SL:
One of three pagodas on the tour, this a 280SL with year of manufacture plates:
Another pagoda (190SL in background, other pagoda is in the lineup pic):
I like that 280 SE. Wish it had a saddle or buff interior with that nice shade of blue. Beautiful car though from back when an MB stood out style wise from blocks away. Route 66 just makes it all the neater.
Thanks for posting all the pictures, Fintail. I still am confused by all the numbers for
various years and models of Mercedes. I wish I understood more.
Not spotted, but mentioned on an episode of "Barney Miller." An episode titled "The Car" has a plot where car thief's conscience haunts him twenty-five years after the fact. The car turns out to be a 1957 DeSoto! Wonder if andre1969 ever saw this episode? It was in the last season I believe.
@lemko said:
Not spotted, but mentioned on an episode of "Barney Miller." An episode titled "The Car" has a plot where car thief's conscience haunts him twenty-five years after the fact.
I remember seeing that episode and the quirky ending too. The detectives manage to locate the owner to come down to the precinct to identify and claim the stolen car. After the owner is given the car keys and sent away she returns immediately to report that the car has been stolen again!
"It's not pink! It's coral! It was a very popular color!"
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
I don't remember that episode, Lemko, but I never watched Barney Miller all that regularly. It's amusing though, how DeSoto references pop up on tv from time to time, and usually not in a flattering way. For instance, I remember Fonzie saying that if you fall off your bike, you have to get back on it and ride again. And those who don't, become DeSoto drivers!
There was an episode of Newhart, where George Utley, the handyman, confessed to an old crime where he accidentally put a car into gear and it rolled off into the swamp. When the case came back to light, I remember the town constable, Officer Shiflett or whatever his name was, referring to it as "The case of the DeSoto in Miller's Swamp" or something like that, and the live audience chuckling when the name "DeSoto" was mentioned.
**Edit: as for that pink/coral color, I think on DeSotos it was called "Mandarin Rust"...that's a bad omen, using the word "rust" in association with any '57 Mopar! I used to know of one other '57 Firedome hardtop coupe locally, down in Southern Maryland, and it was coral with a white top and spear. I don't think I've seen it in about 20 years, so I don't know if they still have it or not. They also had a '59 Dodge sedan that was in better shape, that they took to car shows. I forget though, if it was a Coronet, Royal, or Custom Royal.
I'm in NC/VA/DC this week. I spotted a beautiful deep brown 560 SEC in Winston-Salem. In the parlance of the aficionados, I believe it was a W126.
fin - any thoughts on this? Local Boston Hyundai dealer took in on a Genesis trade a 2006 S500 with 106K on it. They are asking $16K for it. I know one has to be able to pay to play but it looks like it could be fun.
A dark brown 560 SEC would be a lovely car. W126 coupe, by then, it would technically be a C126.
For that S500, be careful. Miles aren't low, price isn't low - it's a final run W220, a car that was troublesome in earlier years, but by 06 had most of the bugs worked out. There will still be high running costs. They are comfortable cars with a wonderful smooth ride, but as you say, pay to play. Price is at least a couple grand high, and it needs to be mint and pass a PPI.
@robr2 said:
I'm in NC/VA/DC this week. I spotted a beautiful deep brown 560 SEC in Winston-Salem. In the parlance of the aficionados, I believe it was a W126.
fin - any thoughts on this? Local Boston Hyundai dealer took in on a Genesis trade a 2006 S500 with 106K on it. They are asking $16K for it. I know one has to be able to pay to play but it looks like it could be fun.
@berri said: I remember Fonzie saying that if you fall off your bike, you have to get back on it and ride again. And those who don't, become DeSoto drivers!
Well, remember that Mr. C drove that late 40's Desoto out there somewhere in suburban Milwaukee. I recall that unusual roof rack on a 4dr sedan.
I recall seeing a movie called "Mischief." An awkward teen tells his cool buddy he drives a Studebaker. The buddy says, "Fords, Chevies, and Mercs are cool. A Studebaker? That's almost as bad as a DeSoto!"
In my opinion, those 1946-1948 DeSotos, and the other Mopars, weren't cool or exciting, but they were very well made, comfortable, practical, reliable and durable. Mopars went from being the highest quality to the lowest by 1957, when they were, with a few exceptions, the coolest.
The redesigned 1949-1954s continued with the same virtues, but the introduction of the Hemi in 1951 added some excitement.
DeSoto didn't really start getting a bad image until 1959, which is when it started becoming common knowledge that it was being phased out. And once that became a reality, it became a loser car, just like any other orphan of the era.
As for their image throughout the years, DeSoto was actually a hot commodity when it first came out. In fact, it set a record when it was introduced, with the 100,000th car being built 14 months after introduction. That surprises me though, as I would think that the lower priced Plymouth, introduced at the same time, would have sold more.
After WWII though, I think DeSoto started taking on a stodgier image. They got burned badly with the Airflow in 1934, as DeSoto relied exclusively on that style that year, whereas Chrysler rushed the Airstream into production. After that fiasco, DeSoto started getting a bit more conservative, although the brief 1942 models, with their hidden headlights, seemed pretty avant garde for the time. But when the 1946 models were issued, they just seemed toned down and dull in comparison.
1949 was a real turning point, I think. The cars were all-new, but upright, stodgy, and by 40's standards, boxy. Then-president K.T. Keller wanted the cars designed so that a man could wear a hat inside the car. As a result, the cars were very roomy and comfortable, but not stylish and swoopy like the GM and Ford competition. In fact, it was 1949 that Mercury, with its new design, pulled way ahead of DeSoto to become a high volume make. From 1939-42 and '46-48, Mercury and DeSoto sales were usually close, and I don't think either broke 100K units. For 1948, DeSoto sold 98K units, while Mercury only managed 50K. Olds, which was probably DeSoto's closest GM competitor, moved about 172K units.
But for 1949, Mercury zoomed to 301K units, and Olds to 288K. DeSoto, meanwhile, fell a bit, to 94K. However, I think that the '49 Mopars had a late introduction, so the '48 models carried on a bit longer, with the final run being called the "1949 First Series" or something like that. Still, it was apparent that the public was demanding form over function.
DeSoto did have a few good years in that '49-54 run. In 1950, sales improved to about 134K, although Olds jumped to 407K and Mercury held around 293K. In 1951, DeSoto sold 106K, compared to Mercury's 310K. Olds fell back to 285K for some reason.
1952 was an off year, with 88K DeSotos, 172K Mercurys, and 213k Oldsmobiles. For '53, DeSoto rebounded, with 130K units, while Mercury did 306K and Olds did 334K. '54 was a bad year though, partly with a recession, and cutbacks due to the Korean War. 76K DeSotos were sold, while Mercury did 259K. Olds got a new body, which no doubt helped them increase production in a down year...354K.
1955 was a banner year in general, and that year Virgil Exner's influence was finally evident, as the cars were fully up to date. DeSoto jumped to 114K, while Mercury sold 329K and Olds rocketed to 583K, which may very well have been a record for them at that point. By this point though, I think Mercury was becoming a cheaper car than it had started off as, and more of a competitor to Dodge than DeSoto. I think the cheaper Olds 88 series might have undercut the DeSoto Firedome in price, but the Super 88 was a bit more, while the 98 was more expensive than the Fireflite. So while Mopar was fighting back, it was obvious that GM could do no wrong.
1956 was a cooling off period, but still a good year. 485K Oldsmobiles, 328K Mercurys, and 110K DeSotos. In 1956, DeSoto also hit another record of sorts. While Chrysler outsold DeSoto for the model year, with 128K units, there was some metric whereby DeSoto actually outsold Chrysler, and it would be the first, and only time. I think that metric was calendar year registrations, which would include part of the 1957 model year, and would count when the cars were actually sold and titled to private individuals, rather than simply how many were built.
Chrysler was trying hard to make Imperial stand on its own as a Cadillac competitor, and starting in 1955, Imperial sales were counted separately, rather than lumped in with Chrysler division totals. As a result, Chrysler sales started dropping. However, Imperial wasn't selling huge numbers, on its own, 11K in '55 and 10K for '56. So a decision was made to start moving Chrysler downscale a bit, so that Imperial could stand more on its own. However, that meant Chrysler would move down into DeSoto territory. But, in the meantime, Dodges started getting bigger and more luxurious, so DeSoto would ultimately get crowded out.
However, 1957 proved to be another great year for DeSoto, with 117K sold. The all-new '57 Olds was a bit of a flop, only moving about 384K units. Mercury was moved upscale for '57, to make room for the Edsel which would hit the scene for '58. However, the new Mercury wasn't a hot seller either, with about 286K units sold. The rest of Mopar's lineup was really strong that year as well, and Chrysler corporation gained market share for 1957, taking something like 19% of the market. They predicted 25% for 1958, but fate would prove otherwise, and their share fell to something like 15%, as a combination of recession, and oversold market, and poor quality control of the '57 models took its toll.
In many ways, the '57 DeSoto was alot like the "Not your Father's Oldsmobile". It brought in new buyers that would not have otherwise considered a DeSoto, only to be burned by poor quality. And yet it spurned the DeSoto faithful, who were used to sturdy, durable cars. '58 was a horrible year in general, but when things started to rebound for '59, DeSoto got left behind. That year, I believe DeSoto and Edsel were the only two Big Three divisions to see fewer sales in '59 than '58. And then for '60, DeSoto's lineup got pared back, and the 1961 model year was extremely truncated, with only a hardtop sedan and coupe offered, and the last one rolled out of the assembly line on November 18, 1960.
@texases said:
I should know this: why are Chrysler products called 'Mopars'?
I'm not sure of the exact reason.. but, it's the name of their parts division.. Like GM was Delco.. I guess Delco just doesn't have that ring to it, like Mopar..
@kyfdx said:
I'm not sure of the exact reason.. but, it's the name of their parts division.. Like GM was Delco.. I guess Delco just doesn't have that ring to it, like Mopar...
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Mostly Old Parts And Rust
Actually, you're right...that was their parts division. MoPar was a contraction of "Motor Parts" or something like that.
OK, I just thought it would have been more than that. Guess it's more catchy than calling Fords 'Motorcrafts', or 'Autolites' for the older ones...
According to Wiki it goes way back:
"Mopar is the parts, service and customer care organization within Chrysler Group LLC. Mopar also designs and builds a small number of customized vehicles. The term was first used by Chrysler in the 1920s and was introduced as a brand starting in 1937. "
There's an old building from around the 1920s that housed a dealership that sold the entire Chrysler line-up that has the names Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge, Plymouth, and Imperial painted on the front of the building with this old MoPar logo on the corner:
It's barely visible now as are the black and white names of the cars painted against bare red brick. I remember when this dealership was still functional up until the early 1990s. There was a modernistic building across the street that is now a carpet store. The old building is abandoned.
Here's an interesting piece of trivia...the '81-83 Imperial's drag coefficient was 0.41. In contrast, the Corvette of the era was 0.45. I knew the Imperial was pretty slick, as it was preferred to the Mirada of the time by NASCAR. But I didn't realize it was that slick.
Those final Imperials, from 1990-93, were actually nice little cars, although they were kind of a slap in the face to the nameplate. The problem is that they were still based on the K-car, and while that platform sufficed for compact and even midsized applications, it just wasn't well-suited to larger cars, because of its narrowness, which limited shoulder room. Also, by that time frame, Chrysler had too many permutations of that platform. At the low end, there was the Dodge Dynasty and Chrysler New Yorker Salon, which was a thinly disguised Dynasty. Then there was the New Yorker, which was the same size, on a ~104.3" wheelbase, but at least looked more prestigious, with hidden headlights and the vertical taillights. Then there was the 5th Avenue, which was a 5" stretch of the wheelbase, and gave generous legroom to the back seat. And then the Imperial, which was the 5th Avenue with a different taillight treatment, and the more rakish front.
The New Yorker got sort of a new lease on life in 1994, when it moved to the LH platform, and that returned it to some semblance of prestige. Until the quality issues arose, that is. However, that year, another trim level, called the LHS, similar to the New Yorker, but geared more towards sportiness, was introduced, and it ultimately won out. As a result, the New Yorker name was dropped after 1996. The LHS itself was absent for a year, in 1998, but then came back for 1999-01, but for '02 became the Concorde Limited.
In my opinion, those 1946-1948 DeSotos, and the other Mopars, weren't cool or exciting, but they were very well made, comfortable, practical, reliable and durable
I agree with that. You'd be surprised how many of those late 40's Mopars were still running around as second cars in the 60's despite Chicagoland weather and traffic.
I was thinking about getting one of those LH New Yorkers when they were new. I thought it was a really sharp car! Instead, I got a new Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Seeing the quality problems that later arose with the LH cars, I made the right choice.
Guess it's more catchy than calling Fords 'Motorcrafts', or 'Autolites' for the older ones...
It's kind of interesting to me how GM and Mopar references are made to their respective company lineups, but all Fomoco is just called "Ford's". Almost like Mercury and Lincoln (and for awhile Edsel) aren't as relevant or something to Ford fans. Personally, there are more than a few Mercury's that I liked over the years.
Desoto suffered the same fate as Ford's Mercury. They kept changing its image, its price structure and its status. The buying public simply got confused as to what the brand stood for.
I really liked the '60 Desoto. I think it actually looked better than the Chrysler that year and I thought it was one of the better looking 1960 cars in a year that overall didn't inspire me a whole lot. But man they seemed to ugly up the last '61's (maybe on purpose?). I think more than a few Edsel fans liked their '60 as well, but I liked the whole in your face '58 best
I always theorized that they made the '61 DeSoto look ugly on purpose as well, so that buyers wouldn't mourn so much, and would simply go buy a Chrysler Newport instead. In fact, the Newport actually undercut DeSoto in price. A Newport started at $2964 for the base 4-door sedan. DeSoto only offered a hardtop coupe, which I think was $3102, and a hardtop sedan which I believe based at $3167. I'm not sure what a hardtop coupe/sedan version of the Newport went for, but I think they were a bit less than the DeSotos.
I can't remember how the '61 DeSoto's interior compares to a Newport's, to see if it would justify the higher price. IIRC, the DeSoto used the same dash as a '61 Dodge, whereas the Newport used the same dash as the more senior Chryslers. So that's a loss of status right there, although I think the last time DeSoto used its own dash was actually 1959. I seem to recall the rest of the '60 DeSoto interior as being pretty nice though, for that price level of car, but can't picture the Newport.
I'd also theorized that Mopar uglied up the '60 Plymouth on purpose, to make the new Dart lineup more saleable. The Dart line actually outsold the full-sized Plymouth lineup that year. However, Plymouth as a whole still outsold Dodge, thanks to the Valiant.
That middle-priced market in general was really drying up in the late 50's/early 60's. DeSoto as a whole went away. The only volume Chrysler in '58-60 was the Windsor, as the pricier Saratoga and New Yorker fared poorly. And at Dodge, they pretty much relied on the Coronet in '58-59, as the Royal/Custom Royal sold poorly. For '60, the Matador/Polara took over for the Royal/Custom Royal, but were still poor sellers, and for '61 it was just the Polara. Also in '61, the Newport was a hot seller, but the rest of the Chrysler lineup just wasn't that strong yet. And then by '62, the Polara was shrunken, and flopped, so Dodge rushed the 880 into production, a car that many have said was essentially what a '62 DeSoto should have been. It outsold the Polara that year, but still wasn't a very strong seller, at least by General Motors sales standards.
But, the contraction of the middle priced market wasn't limited to Mopar. Ford lost the entire Edsel lineup, and by '61, Mercury's strength was in the compact Comet, as the big cars just weren't strong sellers, even though they were now much cheaper, and a bit smaller as they were gussied up Fords, rather than on the larger '60 Mercury body. And, GM had toned down Pontiac, Olds, and Buick a bit, from their '59 excess, and prices dropped a bit as well, in many cases.
And, with cars like the Impala, Galaxie, and Fury, there were some new players in what had been the middle priced market...just from traditionally low-end brands.
I actually know the guy who owns those cars. I don't know if it's still around, but he used to have a website with a bunch of '57 DeSoto pics he collected off the web, and mine was one of them.
IIRC, he bought that gray one as a parts car for the Salmon "Mandarin Rust" one, but then decided to fix up the gray one as well. I think the Salmon one is a Firedome, while the gray one is a Fireflite. The one in the center is an Adventurer. First domestic production car with one hp per cubic inch standard, 345 hp from a 345 CID Hemi, and fully streetable.
While the '56 Chrysler 300B actually broke that barrier, with a 355 hp 354, it was intended for racing, and not well-suited for the street. Same with the 390 hp 392 Hemi that was optional on the 300C. I've also heard that the 283 hp version of the Chevy 283 Fuelie wasn't really well-suited to everyday driving, either.
I like that picture of the 57 Desoto's. I always thought Desoto was maybe the nicest looking of the Forward look lineup. The only one I liked even more was the 57 Chrysler 300. I'm not sure why, but I also really liked the '55 Desoto and it's sister Dodge that year. Just seemed kind of sporty for the times. Of course the Buick and Olds that year were quite nice too.
@berri said:
I like that picture of the 57 Desoto's. I always thought Desoto was maybe the nicest looking of the Forward look lineup.
I also like the 57 DeSoto (and other Mopars) when they have the quad headlamps. I just think that the ones with dual headlamps look weird. Of course, Plymouth didn't come with quads, so it took care of that problem by putting the parking lights in the same enclosure.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Way back in 1997, at the Mopar show in Carlisle, I remember seeing a 1957 Dodge convertible with quad headlights. It definitely improved the car's looks over that fake-me-out look with the big single headlight and the parking light/turn signal mounted inboard. However, I don't think quads were ever offered on the '57 Dodges, so I'm guessing at some point, it got converted?
I don't mind the '57 Chryslers and the big '57 DeSotos with single headlights, as they were designed to take either single or quad. I still prefer the quads, though. The one I really don't like is the '57 Firesweep, which used a Dodge front clip mated to a DeSoto body, and a DeSoto grille. Since the DeSoto grille already had the turn signals built into it, there was no need for the inboard turn signals, like what Dodge and Plymouth used. So, DeSoto simply centered the single headlight within the bezel. I thought the effect was a bit awkward, especially with the big chrome "brow" across the front that was borrowed from Dodge. The big single headlights made me think of an "owl-eyed" look, that would rear its head again with the likes of the '63 Dart, and some of those A-100 vans, and the mid/late 60's pickups. Also, the DeSoto grille didn't mate too well to the Dodge clip, so it jutted out more than it should have.
Oh, at the Chrysler show in Carlisle this year, there was a grand total of 6 DeSotos that I saw on Saturday. One '46-48 model, one '55 hardtop coupe, one '56 Fireflite hardtop coupe that was extra-sweet, one '57 Fireflite 4-door sedan, and two 1960's. So, I guess once my '57 is finished, it'll be a pretty rare beast at that show.
However, this year I was also able to claim the title of only R-body New Yorker. And only one of two R-bodies, period. The only other was a 1981 St. Regis ex-police car. Not that it makes it valuable, not by a long shot, but they only built 5388 St. Regises in 1981. For comparison, they built about 54,000 New Yorkers in 1979, and about 15,000 had the 5th Avenue package. Of course, as we all know, rarity doesn't always equal desireability.
I kind of remember 1957 and 1958 as a little kid that was already into cars. As I recall, the 57 quad headlight thing was a big bureaucratic mess. Once the Fed's approved it, each state was allowed to decide. Some agreed off the top, some held out until the 58's and some opened up to it later during the 57 production run. So Chrysler, Lincoln Mercury and Cadillac were forced to produce dual and quad headlight models at the same time. I think the holdout states were kind of forced into it eventually because suddenly every buyer (taxpayer and voter) seemed to want those jet age quad headlights on their new car. So there may well have been some later 57 Dodges with quads, but I don't think Chrysler put them into the Plymouth until the 58's regardless of regulations. Can you just imagine something like that today? It would never get through Congress. The two parties would just turn it into a political issue trying to market it for electorate advantage. Well that is until the manufacturer's and their lobbyists threw some PAC money into it I suppose
Actually, the Lincolns in '57 used a fake-me-out quad setup as well. The upper lights were the standard, big single headlights, while the lowers were some kind of driving light. If you look closely, the upper lights are larger than the lower.
As for Cadillac, I think the only Caddies to have standard quads in 1957 was the $13,074 Eldorado Brougham sedan. At least, I've never seen one of those with single lights. I'd be curious to know how Cadillac got around that. Maybe they only sold them in states that allowed the quads? According to Wikipedia, they only sold about 400 of them. Or, I wonder if all 50 states adopted quad headlights sometime during the '57 model year? Again, according to Wikipedia, the Eldorado Brougham wasn't introduced until March of 1957, so by that point the model year was half over.
Another one I've wondered about was the 1957 Nash. Those look like they had quad lights standard to me, and they both look the same size, unlike Lincoln. IIRC, they sold about 5,000 Nashes in '57, so I doubt if they would have simply not sold them in states that didn't allow quads, as I'm sure they were desperate to get rid of every one that they could.
For some reason I'm remembering a '57 Pontiac Bonneville with quad lights, that actually looked pretty good. But I think there were only one or two prototypes of that one built.
On the subject of quad lights, I wonder if the manufacturers knew it was coming, several years out, or if it was a last-minute thing and they all rushed to jump on the bandwagon? I've always heard that it takes about 2-3 years to design a car, but then I'm sure they also make changes on it right up to the last minute. So while a lot of the '57's were probably on the drawing board starting in 1954-55, I guess the designs had enough wiggle room to work in a quad setup at the last minute?
@andre1969 said:
On the subject of quad lights, I wonder if the manufacturers knew it was coming, several years out, or if it was a last-minute thing and they all rushed to jump on the bandwagon? I've always heard that it takes about 2-3 years to design a car, but then I'm sure they also make changes on it right up to the last minute. So while a lot of the '57's were probably on the drawing board starting in 1954-55, I guess the designs had enough wiggle room to work in a quad setup at the last minute?
I dunno. If you look at the '58s, a lot of those still looked like they underwent hack jobs to accommodate the quads, and they were another entire year along.
The only '58 models that look like hack jobs to me with the quads are the Studebakers and Packards, because they didn't have enough money to design a wider fender. But the GM, Mopar, and Ford cars all look like they integrate the quads pretty well. Now, some of those cars might be tacky and awkward for other reasons, but I don't think the quads are the problem; putting them back to single headlights would not help things any.
I was surprised that the '57 Ford didn't offer quad lights. It looks to me like the fenders were designed wide enough to accept them, even though they only offered those jutting, bug-eyed single lights.
I thought the quads on the '57 Mercury looked pretty stuck-on. For '58 they look integrated at least, although I think the overall style of the front of the '58 Merc is kind of blocky and awkward. I thought it cleaned up really nicely for '59 though.
For some reason, those dual light Mopars look more modern to me than the quad light models.
Odd cars spotted today - early Mazda 929, nice looking 83-86 T-Bird, 86-88 Carrera cabrio with whale tail.
And the other day, I saw this - just got the pic from my phone. Hard to beat this for obscurity on this continent, although I suppose if it is going to show up anywhere, it will in this area:
Oh yeah, I remember those. Illinois allowed the quads, so they were available from the, or close to the, outset as I recall. Wasn't there some kind of modified 57 Chevy's call El something or another that I think started with an M? I'm thinking they had quads, but I'm not totally sure. I didn't realize that about the Lincoln's. Maybe they fooled you easier than the Dodge and Plymouth.
I think that modified Chevy was called an El Morocco or something like that? IIRC, it was a '57 Chevy, but they modified the front and back to look like the Eldorado Brougham.
Wouldn't you rather have the nicest, most authentic Chrysler New Yorker in existence? Who needs teeth anyway?
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Actually, I don't know that I would...if it was too nice and showroom new, I might be afraid to drive it! With the two that I currently have, if something happened to either one, while I'd still be upset over the loss, I'd still get over it more quickly than I would if it was the the nicest one in existence.
And, it ain't gonna be authentic if I swap out the Lean Burn...but it will be better!
I wonder how much of a logistical nightmare it would have been in 1957, for the auto makers to offer both quad and single lights, depending on where the cars were getting shipped? Or would the quads have been an extra cost option, even in the states where they were legalized? For example, Pennsylvania allowed quad lights, and that's where my '57 Firedome came from. But, would every '57 Firedome/Fireflite/Adventurer in PA have had quads, or would it have been an extra cost option, I wonder?
FWIW, the part in the headlight opening that swaps out for the quad vs single lights is actually welded into place, so it's not a simple screw/bolt out. So I doubt if it's something that they simply changed at the dealership.
Something else I just noticed...I don't think I've ever seen a 1957 Chrysler 300C or DeSoto Adventurer with single lights. But I have seen Firedome/Fireflites with them, as well as Windsor/Saratoga/New Yorkers. So again, I wonder what they did with these cars, in states that didn't allow quads? However, IIRC, the 300 Letter Series and the Adventurer usually got launched later in the model year, so I guess it's possible, like what I theorized with the Eldorado Brougham, that all 50 states had allowed the quads by the time they went on sale?
I imagine it must have been annoying in '57, to live in a state that didn't allow quad lights, but to be in the market for a car that offered them...being taunted by the sales brochures, but knowing you could only get the single lights. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal today, but back then I'm sure it was.
I remember back in 1969-1970 that Daytonas and Superbirds were not allowed in a couple of states because they didn't have front bumpers. And decades later the original Jeep Liberty Renegade ran afoul of some state laws due to its roof mounted lights, which apparently exceeded the height restrictions for auxilliary lighting in some jurisdictions.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
@roadburner said:
I remember back in 1969-1970 that Daytonas and Superbirds were not allowed in a couple of states because they didn't have front bumpers. And decades later the original Jeep Liberty Renegade ran afoul of some state laws due to its roof mounted lights, which apparently exceeded the height restrictions for auxilliary lighting in some jurisdictions.
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I thought the legal problem for those Jeeps were solved if the roof lights were switched off and covered while on public roads.
Ugh. I hate some of the nit-picky state/local laws and red light cams. And speed traps. Due to a recent change in Ohio law, the village of Brice had to stop holding mayor's court to fund their budget with traffic fines. So they replaced that cash cow with a new one this year called the civil-violations system.
Brice police are still writing beaucoup tickets and the fines are, "paid directly to the village, The Columbus Dispatch reports. The newspaper reports that police in the village of 114 residents have written more than 1,000 traffic citations, some for as much as $1,500 under the new system."
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
Reminds me of laws about vehicle width, and how the 60 Ford was supposedly too wide in a couple places.
A bored big city lawyer needs to crush that Ohio stuff, and utterly humiliate the overpaid underworked local prosecutors and judges at the same time. Drive the entire municipality to ruin. The rep of that entire state is hurt by its speed trap mentality - Ohio might be known more for callous traffic enforcement than for anything else.
Comments
I think that '59 DeSoto is an interesting study of how the 50's were slowly starting to evolve into the 60's. The two-toning was definitely getting toned down, as it was becoming common to see the body and roof the same color, with the contrasting color limited to the spear on the side. And even that side spear was smaller than what the accent had been in '55-58. By '60, on the DeSoto at least, I believe any two-toning was limited to just the roof, as the side trim was now just a chrome spear.
Another trend is how they started making the body a bit blockier, front and rear. And also, working the headlights into the grille a bit. I think that's one thing that really separated the 50's from the 60's, is when the headlights were finally in line with the car grilles, rather than above them.
Saw a white XK120 FHC going north on 405, left lane (which was only moving ~35). Also forgot to mention the other day I spotted a late run Citroen DS, grey and white, very nice condition.
Regarding design, there's definitely an "overstyling" trend recently - I blame Bangle with his flame surfacing and bustles, and the sycophant copycat world of design where everyone ends up mimicing it.
Went on a MBCA tour, fairly wide assortment of cars - not trailer queens. Also saw some old cars driving around the park - 3x Model A (2x victoria), ~65 Comet convertible, Testarossa (it and the Comet waved at me), and before the drive, a woman driving a customized ~52 Chevy panel truck chatted me up about the fintail - she knew enough to call it a "fintail", which was shocking to me.
Here are some highlights from the drive:
Lovely low grille (and AC!) 280SE cabrio - front license plate states the car has driven the length of Route 66, the owner is enjoying this classic beast rather than storing it away:
A wide variety:
More stuff - I was second in age to the 190SL:
One of three pagodas on the tour, this a 280SL with year of manufacture plates:
Another pagoda (190SL in background, other pagoda is in the lineup pic):
Made it up there with the modern cars:
I like that 280 SE. Wish it had a saddle or buff interior with that nice shade of blue. Beautiful car though from back when an MB stood out style wise from blocks away. Route 66 just makes it all the neater.
Thanks for posting all the pictures, Fintail. I still am confused by all the numbers for
various years and models of Mercedes. I wish I understood more.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not spotted, but mentioned on an episode of "Barney Miller." An episode titled "The Car" has a plot where car thief's conscience haunts him twenty-five years after the fact. The car turns out to be a 1957 DeSoto! Wonder if andre1969 ever saw this episode? It was in the last season I believe.
I remember seeing that episode and the quirky ending too. The detectives manage to locate the owner to come down to the precinct to identify and claim the stolen car. After the owner is given the car keys and sent away she returns immediately to report that the car has been stolen again!
"It's not pink! It's coral! It was a very popular color!"
I don't remember that episode, Lemko, but I never watched Barney Miller all that regularly. It's amusing though, how DeSoto references pop up on tv from time to time, and usually not in a flattering way. For instance, I remember Fonzie saying that if you fall off your bike, you have to get back on it and ride again. And those who don't, become DeSoto drivers!
There was an episode of Newhart, where George Utley, the handyman, confessed to an old crime where he accidentally put a car into gear and it rolled off into the swamp. When the case came back to light, I remember the town constable, Officer Shiflett or whatever his name was, referring to it as "The case of the DeSoto in Miller's Swamp" or something like that, and the live audience chuckling when the name "DeSoto" was mentioned.
**Edit: as for that pink/coral color, I think on DeSotos it was called "Mandarin Rust"...that's a bad omen, using the word "rust" in association with any '57 Mopar! I used to know of one other '57 Firedome hardtop coupe locally, down in Southern Maryland, and it was coral with a white top and spear. I don't think I've seen it in about 20 years, so I don't know if they still have it or not. They also had a '59 Dodge sedan that was in better shape, that they took to car shows. I forget though, if it was a Coronet, Royal, or Custom Royal.
There is a comic strip (piranha club, used to be called Ernie) where Ernie has a desoto, and the car and it's foibles is a running gag.
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I remember Fonzie saying that if you fall off your bike, you have to get back on it and ride again. And those who don't, become DeSoto drivers!
Well, remember that Mr. C drove that late 40's Desoto out there somewhere in suburban Milwaukee. I recall that unusual roof rack on a 4dr sedan.
I'm in NC/VA/DC this week. I spotted a beautiful deep brown 560 SEC in Winston-Salem. In the parlance of the aficionados, I believe it was a W126.
fin - any thoughts on this? Local Boston Hyundai dealer took in on a Genesis trade a 2006 S500 with 106K on it. They are asking $16K for it. I know one has to be able to pay to play but it looks like it could be fun.
A dark brown 560 SEC would be a lovely car. W126 coupe, by then, it would technically be a C126.
For that S500, be careful. Miles aren't low, price isn't low - it's a final run W220, a car that was troublesome in earlier years, but by 06 had most of the bugs worked out. There will still be high running costs. They are comfortable cars with a wonderful smooth ride, but as you say, pay to play. Price is at least a couple grand high, and it needs to be mint and pass a PPI.
Mr. C's DeSoto:
I recall seeing a movie called "Mischief." An awkward teen tells his cool buddy he drives a Studebaker. The buddy says, "Fords, Chevies, and Mercs are cool. A Studebaker? That's almost as bad as a DeSoto!"
How bad could DeSoto really be when they've got a cool wisecracking guy like Groucho as its spokesman?
youtube.com/watch?v=79n9oZn_efw
Great ad! How could a shopper not have checked out a DeSoto after watching that?
In my opinion, those 1946-1948 DeSotos, and the other Mopars, weren't cool or exciting, but they were very well made, comfortable, practical, reliable and durable. Mopars went from being the highest quality to the lowest by 1957, when they were, with a few exceptions, the coolest.
The redesigned 1949-1954s continued with the same virtues, but the introduction of the Hemi in 1951 added some excitement.
I should know this: why are Chrysler products called 'Mopars'?
DeSoto didn't really start getting a bad image until 1959, which is when it started becoming common knowledge that it was being phased out. And once that became a reality, it became a loser car, just like any other orphan of the era.
As for their image throughout the years, DeSoto was actually a hot commodity when it first came out. In fact, it set a record when it was introduced, with the 100,000th car being built 14 months after introduction. That surprises me though, as I would think that the lower priced Plymouth, introduced at the same time, would have sold more.
After WWII though, I think DeSoto started taking on a stodgier image. They got burned badly with the Airflow in 1934, as DeSoto relied exclusively on that style that year, whereas Chrysler rushed the Airstream into production. After that fiasco, DeSoto started getting a bit more conservative, although the brief 1942 models, with their hidden headlights, seemed pretty avant garde for the time. But when the 1946 models were issued, they just seemed toned down and dull in comparison.
1949 was a real turning point, I think. The cars were all-new, but upright, stodgy, and by 40's standards, boxy. Then-president K.T. Keller wanted the cars designed so that a man could wear a hat inside the car. As a result, the cars were very roomy and comfortable, but not stylish and swoopy like the GM and Ford competition. In fact, it was 1949 that Mercury, with its new design, pulled way ahead of DeSoto to become a high volume make. From 1939-42 and '46-48, Mercury and DeSoto sales were usually close, and I don't think either broke 100K units. For 1948, DeSoto sold 98K units, while Mercury only managed 50K. Olds, which was probably DeSoto's closest GM competitor, moved about 172K units.
But for 1949, Mercury zoomed to 301K units, and Olds to 288K. DeSoto, meanwhile, fell a bit, to 94K. However, I think that the '49 Mopars had a late introduction, so the '48 models carried on a bit longer, with the final run being called the "1949 First Series" or something like that. Still, it was apparent that the public was demanding form over function.
DeSoto did have a few good years in that '49-54 run. In 1950, sales improved to about 134K, although Olds jumped to 407K and Mercury held around 293K. In 1951, DeSoto sold 106K, compared to Mercury's 310K. Olds fell back to 285K for some reason.
1952 was an off year, with 88K DeSotos, 172K Mercurys, and 213k Oldsmobiles. For '53, DeSoto rebounded, with 130K units, while Mercury did 306K and Olds did 334K. '54 was a bad year though, partly with a recession, and cutbacks due to the Korean War. 76K DeSotos were sold, while Mercury did 259K. Olds got a new body, which no doubt helped them increase production in a down year...354K.
1955 was a banner year in general, and that year Virgil Exner's influence was finally evident, as the cars were fully up to date. DeSoto jumped to 114K, while Mercury sold 329K and Olds rocketed to 583K, which may very well have been a record for them at that point. By this point though, I think Mercury was becoming a cheaper car than it had started off as, and more of a competitor to Dodge than DeSoto. I think the cheaper Olds 88 series might have undercut the DeSoto Firedome in price, but the Super 88 was a bit more, while the 98 was more expensive than the Fireflite. So while Mopar was fighting back, it was obvious that GM could do no wrong.
1956 was a cooling off period, but still a good year. 485K Oldsmobiles, 328K Mercurys, and 110K DeSotos. In 1956, DeSoto also hit another record of sorts. While Chrysler outsold DeSoto for the model year, with 128K units, there was some metric whereby DeSoto actually outsold Chrysler, and it would be the first, and only time. I think that metric was calendar year registrations, which would include part of the 1957 model year, and would count when the cars were actually sold and titled to private individuals, rather than simply how many were built.
Chrysler was trying hard to make Imperial stand on its own as a Cadillac competitor, and starting in 1955, Imperial sales were counted separately, rather than lumped in with Chrysler division totals. As a result, Chrysler sales started dropping. However, Imperial wasn't selling huge numbers, on its own, 11K in '55 and 10K for '56. So a decision was made to start moving Chrysler downscale a bit, so that Imperial could stand more on its own. However, that meant Chrysler would move down into DeSoto territory. But, in the meantime, Dodges started getting bigger and more luxurious, so DeSoto would ultimately get crowded out.
However, 1957 proved to be another great year for DeSoto, with 117K sold. The all-new '57 Olds was a bit of a flop, only moving about 384K units. Mercury was moved upscale for '57, to make room for the Edsel which would hit the scene for '58. However, the new Mercury wasn't a hot seller either, with about 286K units sold. The rest of Mopar's lineup was really strong that year as well, and Chrysler corporation gained market share for 1957, taking something like 19% of the market. They predicted 25% for 1958, but fate would prove otherwise, and their share fell to something like 15%, as a combination of recession, and oversold market, and poor quality control of the '57 models took its toll.
In many ways, the '57 DeSoto was alot like the "Not your Father's Oldsmobile". It brought in new buyers that would not have otherwise considered a DeSoto, only to be burned by poor quality. And yet it spurned the DeSoto faithful, who were used to sturdy, durable cars. '58 was a horrible year in general, but when things started to rebound for '59, DeSoto got left behind. That year, I believe DeSoto and Edsel were the only two Big Three divisions to see fewer sales in '59 than '58. And then for '60, DeSoto's lineup got pared back, and the 1961 model year was extremely truncated, with only a hardtop sedan and coupe offered, and the last one rolled out of the assembly line on November 18, 1960.
I'm not sure of the exact reason.. but, it's the name of their parts division.. Like GM was Delco.. I guess Delco just doesn't have that ring to it, like Mopar..
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Actually, you're right...that was their parts division. MoPar was a contraction of "Motor Parts" or something like that.
OK, I just thought it would have been more than that. Guess it's more catchy than calling Fords 'Motorcrafts', or 'Autolites' for the older ones...
According to Wiki it goes way back:
"Mopar is the parts, service and customer care organization within Chrysler Group LLC. Mopar also designs and builds a small number of customized vehicles. The term was first used by Chrysler in the 1920s and was introduced as a brand starting in 1937. "
There's an old building from around the 1920s that housed a dealership that sold the entire Chrysler line-up that has the names Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge, Plymouth, and Imperial painted on the front of the building with this old MoPar logo on the corner:
It's barely visible now as are the black and white names of the cars painted against bare red brick. I remember when this dealership was still functional up until the early 1990s. There was a modernistic building across the street that is now a carpet store. The old building is abandoned.
Haven't heard Imperial mentioned for a long time. Hard to believe they were still making them as late as 1993 (~7,000 units per Wiki).
Here's an interesting piece of trivia...the '81-83 Imperial's drag coefficient was 0.41. In contrast, the Corvette of the era was 0.45. I knew the Imperial was pretty slick, as it was preferred to the Mirada of the time by NASCAR. But I didn't realize it was that slick.
Those final Imperials, from 1990-93, were actually nice little cars, although they were kind of a slap in the face to the nameplate. The problem is that they were still based on the K-car, and while that platform sufficed for compact and even midsized applications, it just wasn't well-suited to larger cars, because of its narrowness, which limited shoulder room. Also, by that time frame, Chrysler had too many permutations of that platform. At the low end, there was the Dodge Dynasty and Chrysler New Yorker Salon, which was a thinly disguised Dynasty. Then there was the New Yorker, which was the same size, on a ~104.3" wheelbase, but at least looked more prestigious, with hidden headlights and the vertical taillights. Then there was the 5th Avenue, which was a 5" stretch of the wheelbase, and gave generous legroom to the back seat. And then the Imperial, which was the 5th Avenue with a different taillight treatment, and the more rakish front.
The New Yorker got sort of a new lease on life in 1994, when it moved to the LH platform, and that returned it to some semblance of prestige. Until the quality issues arose, that is. However, that year, another trim level, called the LHS, similar to the New Yorker, but geared more towards sportiness, was introduced, and it ultimately won out. As a result, the New Yorker name was dropped after 1996. The LHS itself was absent for a year, in 1998, but then came back for 1999-01, but for '02 became the Concorde Limited.
In my opinion, those 1946-1948 DeSotos, and the other Mopars, weren't cool or exciting, but they were very well made, comfortable, practical, reliable and durable
I agree with that. You'd be surprised how many of those late 40's Mopars were still running around as second cars in the 60's despite Chicagoland weather and traffic.
I was thinking about getting one of those LH New Yorkers when they were new. I thought it was a really sharp car! Instead, I got a new Cadillac Sedan DeVille. Seeing the quality problems that later arose with the LH cars, I made the right choice.
Guess it's more catchy than calling Fords 'Motorcrafts', or 'Autolites' for the older ones...
It's kind of interesting to me how GM and Mopar references are made to their respective company lineups, but all Fomoco is just called "Ford's". Almost like Mercury and Lincoln (and for awhile Edsel) aren't as relevant or something to Ford fans. Personally, there are more than a few Mercury's that I liked over the years.
Desoto suffered the same fate as Ford's Mercury. They kept changing its image, its price structure and its status. The buying public simply got confused as to what the brand stood for.
for '60, DeSoto's lineup got pared back
I really liked the '60 Desoto. I think it actually looked better than the Chrysler that year and I thought it was one of the better looking 1960 cars in a year that overall didn't inspire me a whole lot. But man they seemed to ugly up the last '61's (maybe on purpose?). I think more than a few Edsel fans liked their '60 as well, but I liked the whole in your face '58 best
I always theorized that they made the '61 DeSoto look ugly on purpose as well, so that buyers wouldn't mourn so much, and would simply go buy a Chrysler Newport instead. In fact, the Newport actually undercut DeSoto in price. A Newport started at $2964 for the base 4-door sedan. DeSoto only offered a hardtop coupe, which I think was $3102, and a hardtop sedan which I believe based at $3167. I'm not sure what a hardtop coupe/sedan version of the Newport went for, but I think they were a bit less than the DeSotos.
I can't remember how the '61 DeSoto's interior compares to a Newport's, to see if it would justify the higher price. IIRC, the DeSoto used the same dash as a '61 Dodge, whereas the Newport used the same dash as the more senior Chryslers. So that's a loss of status right there, although I think the last time DeSoto used its own dash was actually 1959. I seem to recall the rest of the '60 DeSoto interior as being pretty nice though, for that price level of car, but can't picture the Newport.
I'd also theorized that Mopar uglied up the '60 Plymouth on purpose, to make the new Dart lineup more saleable. The Dart line actually outsold the full-sized Plymouth lineup that year. However, Plymouth as a whole still outsold Dodge, thanks to the Valiant.
That middle-priced market in general was really drying up in the late 50's/early 60's. DeSoto as a whole went away. The only volume Chrysler in '58-60 was the Windsor, as the pricier Saratoga and New Yorker fared poorly. And at Dodge, they pretty much relied on the Coronet in '58-59, as the Royal/Custom Royal sold poorly. For '60, the Matador/Polara took over for the Royal/Custom Royal, but were still poor sellers, and for '61 it was just the Polara. Also in '61, the Newport was a hot seller, but the rest of the Chrysler lineup just wasn't that strong yet. And then by '62, the Polara was shrunken, and flopped, so Dodge rushed the 880 into production, a car that many have said was essentially what a '62 DeSoto should have been. It outsold the Polara that year, but still wasn't a very strong seller, at least by General Motors sales standards.
But, the contraction of the middle priced market wasn't limited to Mopar. Ford lost the entire Edsel lineup, and by '61, Mercury's strength was in the compact Comet, as the big cars just weren't strong sellers, even though they were now much cheaper, and a bit smaller as they were gussied up Fords, rather than on the larger '60 Mercury body. And, GM had toned down Pontiac, Olds, and Buick a bit, from their '59 excess, and prices dropped a bit as well, in many cases.
And, with cars like the Impala, Galaxie, and Fury, there were some new players in what had been the middle priced market...just from traditionally low-end brands.
DeSoto never got better than this:
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I actually know the guy who owns those cars. I don't know if it's still around, but he used to have a website with a bunch of '57 DeSoto pics he collected off the web, and mine was one of them.
IIRC, he bought that gray one as a parts car for the Salmon "Mandarin Rust" one, but then decided to fix up the gray one as well. I think the Salmon one is a Firedome, while the gray one is a Fireflite. The one in the center is an Adventurer. First domestic production car with one hp per cubic inch standard, 345 hp from a 345 CID Hemi, and fully streetable.
While the '56 Chrysler 300B actually broke that barrier, with a 355 hp 354, it was intended for racing, and not well-suited for the street. Same with the 390 hp 392 Hemi that was optional on the 300C. I've also heard that the 283 hp version of the Chevy 283 Fuelie wasn't really well-suited to everyday driving, either.
I like that picture of the 57 Desoto's. I always thought Desoto was maybe the nicest looking of the Forward look lineup. The only one I liked even more was the 57 Chrysler 300. I'm not sure why, but I also really liked the '55 Desoto and it's sister Dodge that year. Just seemed kind of sporty for the times. Of course the Buick and Olds that year were quite nice too.
I also like the 57 DeSoto (and other Mopars) when they have the quad headlamps. I just think that the ones with dual headlamps look weird. Of course, Plymouth didn't come with quads, so it took care of that problem by putting the parking lights in the same enclosure.
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Way back in 1997, at the Mopar show in Carlisle, I remember seeing a 1957 Dodge convertible with quad headlights. It definitely improved the car's looks over that fake-me-out look with the big single headlight and the parking light/turn signal mounted inboard. However, I don't think quads were ever offered on the '57 Dodges, so I'm guessing at some point, it got converted?
I don't mind the '57 Chryslers and the big '57 DeSotos with single headlights, as they were designed to take either single or quad. I still prefer the quads, though. The one I really don't like is the '57 Firesweep, which used a Dodge front clip mated to a DeSoto body, and a DeSoto grille. Since the DeSoto grille already had the turn signals built into it, there was no need for the inboard turn signals, like what Dodge and Plymouth used. So, DeSoto simply centered the single headlight within the bezel. I thought the effect was a bit awkward, especially with the big chrome "brow" across the front that was borrowed from Dodge. The big single headlights made me think of an "owl-eyed" look, that would rear its head again with the likes of the '63 Dart, and some of those A-100 vans, and the mid/late 60's pickups. Also, the DeSoto grille didn't mate too well to the Dodge clip, so it jutted out more than it should have.
Oh, at the Chrysler show in Carlisle this year, there was a grand total of 6 DeSotos that I saw on Saturday. One '46-48 model, one '55 hardtop coupe, one '56 Fireflite hardtop coupe that was extra-sweet, one '57 Fireflite 4-door sedan, and two 1960's. So, I guess once my '57 is finished, it'll be a pretty rare beast at that show.
However, this year I was also able to claim the title of only R-body New Yorker. And only one of two R-bodies, period. The only other was a 1981 St. Regis ex-police car. Not that it makes it valuable, not by a long shot, but they only built 5388 St. Regises in 1981. For comparison, they built about 54,000 New Yorkers in 1979, and about 15,000 had the 5th Avenue package. Of course, as we all know, rarity doesn't always equal desireability.
I kind of remember 1957 and 1958 as a little kid that was already into cars. As I recall, the 57 quad headlight thing was a big bureaucratic mess. Once the Fed's approved it, each state was allowed to decide. Some agreed off the top, some held out until the 58's and some opened up to it later during the 57 production run. So Chrysler, Lincoln Mercury and Cadillac were forced to produce dual and quad headlight models at the same time. I think the holdout states were kind of forced into it eventually because suddenly every buyer (taxpayer and voter) seemed to want those jet age quad headlights on their new car. So there may well have been some later 57 Dodges with quads, but I don't think Chrysler put them into the Plymouth until the 58's regardless of regulations. Can you just imagine something like that today? It would never get through Congress. The two parties would just turn it into a political issue trying to market it for electorate advantage. Well that is until the manufacturer's and their lobbyists threw some PAC money into it I suppose
Actually, the Lincolns in '57 used a fake-me-out quad setup as well. The upper lights were the standard, big single headlights, while the lowers were some kind of driving light. If you look closely, the upper lights are larger than the lower.
As for Cadillac, I think the only Caddies to have standard quads in 1957 was the $13,074 Eldorado Brougham sedan. At least, I've never seen one of those with single lights. I'd be curious to know how Cadillac got around that. Maybe they only sold them in states that allowed the quads? According to Wikipedia, they only sold about 400 of them. Or, I wonder if all 50 states adopted quad headlights sometime during the '57 model year? Again, according to Wikipedia, the Eldorado Brougham wasn't introduced until March of 1957, so by that point the model year was half over.
Another one I've wondered about was the 1957 Nash. Those look like they had quad lights standard to me, and they both look the same size, unlike Lincoln. IIRC, they sold about 5,000 Nashes in '57, so I doubt if they would have simply not sold them in states that didn't allow quads, as I'm sure they were desperate to get rid of every one that they could.
For some reason I'm remembering a '57 Pontiac Bonneville with quad lights, that actually looked pretty good. But I think there were only one or two prototypes of that one built.
On the subject of quad lights, I wonder if the manufacturers knew it was coming, several years out, or if it was a last-minute thing and they all rushed to jump on the bandwagon? I've always heard that it takes about 2-3 years to design a car, but then I'm sure they also make changes on it right up to the last minute. So while a lot of the '57's were probably on the drawing board starting in 1954-55, I guess the designs had enough wiggle room to work in a quad setup at the last minute?
I dunno. If you look at the '58s, a lot of those still looked like they underwent hack jobs to accommodate the quads, and they were another entire year along.
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The only '58 models that look like hack jobs to me with the quads are the Studebakers and Packards, because they didn't have enough money to design a wider fender. But the GM, Mopar, and Ford cars all look like they integrate the quads pretty well. Now, some of those cars might be tacky and awkward for other reasons, but I don't think the quads are the problem; putting them back to single headlights would not help things any.
I was surprised that the '57 Ford didn't offer quad lights. It looks to me like the fenders were designed wide enough to accept them, even though they only offered those jutting, bug-eyed single lights.
I thought the quads on the '57 Mercury looked pretty stuck-on. For '58 they look integrated at least, although I think the overall style of the front of the '58 Merc is kind of blocky and awkward. I thought it cleaned up really nicely for '59 though.
For some reason, those dual light Mopars look more modern to me than the quad light models.
Odd cars spotted today - early Mazda 929, nice looking 83-86 T-Bird, 86-88 Carrera cabrio with whale tail.
And the other day, I saw this - just got the pic from my phone. Hard to beat this for obscurity on this continent, although I suppose if it is going to show up anywhere, it will in this area:
Another one I've wondered about was the 1957 Nash
Oh yeah, I remember those. Illinois allowed the quads, so they were available from the, or close to the, outset as I recall. Wasn't there some kind of modified 57 Chevy's call El something or another that I think started with an M? I'm thinking they had quads, but I'm not totally sure. I didn't realize that about the Lincoln's. Maybe they fooled you easier than the Dodge and Plymouth.
I think that modified Chevy was called an El Morocco or something like that? IIRC, it was a '57 Chevy, but they modified the front and back to look like the Eldorado Brougham.
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Wouldn't you rather have the nicest, most authentic Chrysler New Yorker in existence? Who needs teeth anyway?
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Actually, I don't know that I would...if it was too nice and showroom new, I might be afraid to drive it! With the two that I currently have, if something happened to either one, while I'd still be upset over the loss, I'd still get over it more quickly than I would if it was the the nicest one in existence.
And, it ain't gonna be authentic if I swap out the Lean Burn...but it will be better!
I wonder how much of a logistical nightmare it would have been in 1957, for the auto makers to offer both quad and single lights, depending on where the cars were getting shipped? Or would the quads have been an extra cost option, even in the states where they were legalized? For example, Pennsylvania allowed quad lights, and that's where my '57 Firedome came from. But, would every '57 Firedome/Fireflite/Adventurer in PA have had quads, or would it have been an extra cost option, I wonder?
FWIW, the part in the headlight opening that swaps out for the quad vs single lights is actually welded into place, so it's not a simple screw/bolt out. So I doubt if it's something that they simply changed at the dealership.
Something else I just noticed...I don't think I've ever seen a 1957 Chrysler 300C or DeSoto Adventurer with single lights. But I have seen Firedome/Fireflites with them, as well as Windsor/Saratoga/New Yorkers. So again, I wonder what they did with these cars, in states that didn't allow quads? However, IIRC, the 300 Letter Series and the Adventurer usually got launched later in the model year, so I guess it's possible, like what I theorized with the Eldorado Brougham, that all 50 states had allowed the quads by the time they went on sale?
I imagine it must have been annoying in '57, to live in a state that didn't allow quad lights, but to be in the market for a car that offered them...being taunted by the sales brochures, but knowing you could only get the single lights. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal today, but back then I'm sure it was.
I remember back in 1969-1970 that Daytonas and Superbirds were not allowed in a couple of states because they didn't have front bumpers. And decades later the original Jeep Liberty Renegade ran afoul of some state laws due to its roof mounted lights, which apparently exceeded the height restrictions for auxilliary lighting in some jurisdictions.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
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I thought the legal problem for those Jeeps were solved if the roof lights were switched off and covered while on public roads.
Ugh. I hate some of the nit-picky state/local laws and red light cams. And speed traps. Due to a recent change in Ohio law, the village of Brice had to stop holding mayor's court to fund their budget with traffic fines. So they replaced that cash cow with a new one this year called the civil-violations system.
Brice police are still writing beaucoup tickets and the fines are, "paid directly to the village, The Columbus Dispatch reports. The newspaper reports that police in the village of 114 residents have written more than 1,000 traffic citations, some for as much as $1,500 under the new system."
Reminds me of laws about vehicle width, and how the 60 Ford was supposedly too wide in a couple places.
A bored big city lawyer needs to crush that Ohio stuff, and utterly humiliate the overpaid underworked local prosecutors and judges at the same time. Drive the entire municipality to ruin. The rep of that entire state is hurt by its speed trap mentality - Ohio might be known more for callous traffic enforcement than for anything else.
Sounds like the National Motorists Association should be on the case- if they aren't already...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive