2013 and earlier-Honda Pilot Prices Paid and Buying Experience

varmint

Honda recently expanded the Swindon lines for the CR-V (a vehicle that wasn't even going to be sold in the US). They just bought a plant in Taiwan from Subaru. Not more than 2 years ago, Honda built the largest indoor crash testing facility in the world. The plant for the Ody was just completed. They've introduced more new models in recent years than they did in the 20 years prior.

Honda went from selling zero trucks to having runaway successes in the mini-SUV class, mini-vans, and the mid-level luxury SUV class. Now they've got what looks like an award winning, bread-winner in the mid-size SUV class. A company known for its small cars now has three slots in C&D's Five Best Truck rankings.

And they still make mowers and motorcycles...

Yeah, I think Honda has had their hands full.

will4271

I test drove the Sequoia SR-5 also.

I was amazed by the smoothness of the 240hp engine. The salesman was really friendly and let us drive around quite a bit. I'm still thinking. I enjoyed the room inside, size of a real truck.

I'm deciding between the MDX, Pilot, Sequoia but I probably will go for the '03 MDX. I heard from the newsgroup that the Sequoia's brakes are not that good where they require new brake pads every 10K to 15K miles. I'm not sure if that is true thought but quite a few people said that. This can be quite expensive.

Unless you can get a pilot at MSRP (hard to get in the SF Bay Area unless you drive that 2 hours), I think anything above that the MDX is the bargain.

tom_s

the law of diminishing returns?
That is the answer, look it up
-Tom

jmltrib

For those of you who are getting MDX quotes relatively close to the Pilot quotes, is it more because the Acura dealership is willing to work with you on the price of the MDX, or it more that because the Honda dealers you have encountered are marking up the MSRP on the Pilot? Any Acura dealers in the Midwest that have been good to work with?? Please advise. Thanks!!

anu0

A local Honda dealer, Honda of St. Johns http://www.stjohnshonda.com/

is advertising no markup on their Pilots. They're selling at MSRP, so they claim.

carman34

I purchased a Pilot EX-L-Navi on Saturday for MSRP + options. This was in the SF Bay Area!! This dealer had labor rates much higher than the Honda site, but my total came out only $296 higher.

I did not give in; I was plenty willing to walk out on dealers who insist on $1000 to $4000 markups or charge ridiculous "non-sense" packages.

It is possible but you have to be patient looking and demanding when it comes time to the negotiation.

Good luck.

millsk1

We don't sell them for over MSRP, and we don't add unwanted options. There is nothing that vehicle needs from the factory. Also, Honda's limited production of the Pilot is a result of conservatism, but they have had virtually no unsuccessful product launches. The 2003 Accord will follow in the footsteps of the rest. Honda makes their money when they sell a vehicle to us, so they aren't really concerned with how much we sell them for.

millsk1

The Honda labor rates listed on the website are based on what they pay us for warranty work, I have been told. Unfortunately, it is hard to get technicians to work for that on warranty work and accessory installation. It has been that way since I got here in 1995.

rsholland

If you're considering a Sequoia, you'd be well advised to also consider the new '03 Expedition. I just drove one today, and was amazed by how good it is. Forget everything you ever heard about Fords. This one is a winner!

It's got IRS, and a split fold down 3rd rear seat just like the Pilot, but also has the "work" capability of the Sequoia. To me that's a perfect combination. The one I drove was a base 4x4 XLT, with the 5.4 engine, with 9-passenger seating; and was from a "no-hassle-one-price" dealer. It stickered at just under $33.8K. That's no misprint!

I've driven two new Pilots, and one new Expedition. The Expedition drives as well as the Pilot, and is so much more capable. Whether you like Fords or not, you at least owe it to yourself to check it out. I think you will be very surprised at just how good this vehicle is. I was blown away by it—and I've owned Hondas ever since 1965!

Bob

spartanman2

I only have to wait two weeks. Just put a security deposit down for EX-L at MSRP. No dealer $$ add-ons. Sorry to hear about other parts of the country.

crikey

I, too, have heard similar things about the new Expedition. Very tempting to take a test drive...

rsholland

I know this is a "Pilot-oriented" thread, but I honestly think people considering the Pilot, or are on the fence deciding between a mid-size SUV and a full-size SUV, should really look at the new '03 Expedition.

When you first approach it, it seems HUGE. However, even though it is a full-size SUV, it did not feel that large while driving it. It did feel larger than the Pilot, but not by much. It really feels more like a mid-size SUV, than a full-size SUV, once moving. Its turning circle is 38'8" which is great for a SUV that size. I think it will be an eye-opener.

As with the Pilot, because they are both new, getting good deals might(?) be difficult. However, there are many more Ford dealers out there, and, as I mentioned, there is one nearby me already offering some discounts. Frankly, the one I saw for for $33.8K was a fantastic deal. It was 9-passenger, with a front split bench, and a huge fold-down center armrest. Actually, the driver's seat is the same whether you get the center console or the split bench. It's a "Captain's Chair" with a little side bolstering, so it's not the old-fashioned, no-side-support bench seat we all remember as kids. It's much better than that. The other advantage of the split bench is that you can slide across the front seat, without having to climb over a console, if need be.

The only thing this $33.8K version that I drove, that it didn't have, and that I would have liked, was a moonroof; but then again, you can't get a moonroof in "any" Pilot...

Bob

ksoman

I just booked a pilot with a color that aint coming in till August. I have a EX-L with Nav with quite a few options thrown in. The dealer was forcing some stupid stripes and dipes package worth 1300 bux. I refused. With all options I need/want/desire, I've topped out at 37,020. With tax, tag and the other random nonsense, it will climb to well past 41, at which point, I've booked it with a refundable, but I'm seriously pausing to consider the 03 MDX with NAV and Touring and anything else thrown in....

ksso

ksoman

With all due respect to your views rsh... though the new expedition drives better than the old, nobody here who want a unibody SUV will even venture close to the Expedition or Explorer from ford. Despite ford turning around a lot on quality issues and everything in between, its a far cry from any honda ever built. As a person who travels almost every week and rents cars from Hertz, I can tell you, ford has a long long long long long long long way to go before quality will ever catch up to the euro's or [non-permissible content removed].... that's suprisingly stupid of me to say, cuz the new Jaguars have some amazing quality... hey, what's this with ford???
ksso

rsholland

Maybe so, but don't judge the new Expedition or Explorer by those of the past. I still think, not checking out the new Expedition, you are doing yourself a disservice. It's much better than you might think, body-on-frame, or not. It's certainly worth a look (and test drive). You've got nothing to loose.

Bob

myjumbo

at a cost of about $28000, Honda dealer profit about $2800 which is 10%, however, if they can make a sale each week with this $28000 capital, they will profit almost $150,000. It is a huge profit and so nobody should pay higher than MSRP. all it takes is for every one to stop buying for a couple weeks and price will come down, just say no will do it.

homerg

I purchased my Pilot at MSRP in Indianapolis with no add-ons. I've seen many posts about people paying MSRP to $1000 over MSRP, or taking a few add ons, but the real horror stories, $3000 to $6000 over MSRP, $5000 "packages" are from people walking away from the deals. Are the dealers trying to get these outrageous markups selling their inventory, or are they sitting on the lot unsold? Does anyone know anyone who actually paid the super high markups? Did you ask them what they were thinking? Does anyone want to buy my slightly used pilot for only $4000 more than I paid for it? It's a real nice one, but I'll part with it for this small "convenience fee"

ksoman

Good idea, but impractical in the real world. The only way you have out of it is to have patience. I was looking at the Honda s2000 since before it launched. Initial prices were in the 7-8K above MSRP... and people paid. now 2 years down, I find more and more s2000's sitting on dealer floors with no waiting lists. They try to keep the vehilcles at MSRP for pride, but the reality is I've two dealers fighting to sell me for 1000 bux under MSRP. quite a drop huh? from almost 40K to 31K.... but I could do it because I'd the patience to wait... some might say crazy long patience, cuz I waited two + years.

Back to the Pilot, I cancelled my Pilot (due August) that I booked at MSRP - $100 + other options. I got the other dealer cutting at MSRP - $600. Maybe Honda dealers aren't so lucky anymore... they are under tremendous pressure due to speculations on the 03 MDX, plus overall softer car buying cycle.

On that note, I'd tell others who visit Honda dealers for the Pilot... use this strategy that worked with me. Drop into a Acura dealer and pick up a brochure with some #s written on it by the dealer... like what they'll sell the base or base+touring or base+nav or everything on.... and then keep this handy, or prominently on the front seat when you get to any Honda Dealer... tell the salesman, you are really in the market for an MDX, but if the Pilot turns sweet, you might give it a strong consideration.... they beg you for your money, when push comes to shove.

ksso

will4271

Over the weekend, I went to AutoWest Honda in Fremont, CA. They were asking for the Pilot with nav for $5,500 over MSRP w/o add-ons and that's like $1000 below the price for a MDX Touring with Nav at MSRP.

The MDX comes with better tires, and light sensitive rearview mirrors, fog lights and others.

That salesman said that it's the market.

There must be those fish in the Ocean because I had visited two weeks earlier and they sold a few of them already. What people do when they are uninformed.

cpintucson

Found an Evergreen Pearl EX with saddle leather on the Beaudry new car inventory web site this last weekend. Called in at 9:00 with credit card to hold it, completed the papers at lunch, had side steps installed and picked it up on the way home from work.

Paid 30,980 (MSRP) +
wheel locks
mud guards
cross bars
side steps
and cargo cover
for total of 31,813.

We received a generous trade value for our '98 Ford Windstar.

Thirty hours later and I just love this car. For those thinking Ford turned it around with the 2003 Expedition, beware. The jury is still out. I still own a 1990 Bronco II and have also owned Hondas in the past. Ford quality is job one?? It is also a full time job for the owner.

captainkirk

My wife and I had a deposit on an Odyssey minivan until the Pilot was released. My wife wanted an SUV instead of a minivan but I couldn't justify the cost difference for the value. Once the Pilot was released my wife took a test drive and was sold. Honda quality. Affordable. Lots of room. Now, here's the kicker. I was planning on purchasing an EX-L model but recently learned that the lease residual is 62% instead of the 64% residual on an EX model with cloth interior.

This doesn't make much sense to me so I'm hoping someone can help me understand. The MSRP on the EX with cloth is $29,730 (which is what I will be paying). The MSRP on the EX-L is $30,980. The only difference - leather - increases MSRP by $1250. I always thought leather was a luxurious option to have - easier to care for, etc. Honda must not feel the same way if they quote lease residual at 62% instead of 64%.

Has anyone even taken a second look at this? Maybe the 2% residual isn't that big of a deal but it sure makes me wonder why Honda would have the perception that the exact same vehicle with leather will be worth less in 36 months than one with cloth interior?

Anybody have some insight here?

Thank you.

wmquan

I think the lease residuals of the Pilot are probably higher than they're going to be later. One problem is that the leasing companies aren't sure what to make of a new model, and sometimes a vehicle is overstated on introduction (sometimes understated, or sometimes pumped up by the manufacturer to get initial interest going). The MDX's initial lease residuals were higher than they are today.

I can't explain why the cloth has an extra 2%, but it could be that the residuals you're looking at now are as good as they're going to get. Any more scrutiny, and they might both come down.

crikey

Is it better to have a higher, rather than lower, residual when leasing a vehicle?

I'm not familiar with leasing which is why I ask.

captainkirk

Yes, when leasing it is better to have a higher residual. Most leases today (maybe all - I'm not sure) are closed-end which means you know exactly what the vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease term. The general principle behind leasing over buying is that you only pay for the portion of the vehicle you will use over the term of the lease - which should result in a lower payment. There are other things to consider - money factor (cost to borrow), etc. - but that's about all I know.

My limited experience with leasing leads me to believe that it's best to start the lease with little or no money down. For example, Honda only requires the first months payment down. No security deposit is required. When it's all said and done, I'm renting the vehicle for 36 months for less than it would cost me to buy the vehicle. The bad news is that at the end of the lease term I don't "own" anything. My hope is that the Pilot will hold its value better than expected and I may actually be in an equity position at the end of the lease.

Hope this helps.

captainkirk

Crikey - I didn't really answer your question with my last post. I guess I got off track when I started rambling.

A higher residual means the vehicle will be worth more at lease end which translates into lower payments throughout the lease. An example: The Pilot EX w/ cloth has an MSRP of $29,730. A 64% residual means the vehicle is "guaranteed" to be worth $19,027.20 at the end of my 36 month lease. Consequently, my monthly lease payment will be based upon the $10,702.80 difference - along with the cost to carry the $19,027.20 that I will never pay on. If the residual were 62%, my guaranteed value at the end of 36 months would be $18,432.60. In this case my lease payment would be based upon the 11,297.40 difference - plus the cost to carry the $19,027.20. In the second scenario - all things being equal except residual value - my payment would be higher.

When it's all said and done, leasing is for short term auto buyers. If you keep cars a long time (5+ years) then you should probably purchase because you will get more bang for your buck. If you like to get a new car every 2-3 years - you are probably better off leasing.

Now - I hope this helps answer your question.

millsk1

If you trade every three years and finance your car, you absolutely should lease. Owning a car is not necessarily a good thing. I have customers all the time who have had a car three years and financed them five. That is the most common term for new cars. Now, they come back with a payment that was $100 higher, on average than leasing. They still don't have equity. They have paid an extra $3600 so that they can say,"I own my car." The title is still held by the bank. They own nothing except an obligation. Where is the equity when you lease? In your pocket, in the form of savings.

millsk1

There is a reason the leather model has a lower residual. On a new vehicle, the cost for leather is about $1,200 to $1,500. On a used one around three years, the add in value for leather is usually around $500. That is around 42%. The difference is that added equipment makes less difference in a car's value as it gets older. Sure, a 2000 Accord with leather will be worth more than one with cloth, but a 1994 is worth about the same either way.

zorglub

Actually, they've lowered the sticker shock. I went there on the first day it was released and their ADM was $6,000. I actually laughed at them. I also asked Anderson Honda in Palo Alto, and they said $2,500 over MSRP.
I did not try to negotiate because I'm not in the market for the Pilot right now, but at least that's where they start from.

dcwang

I am not sure MDX is a better car. However, with the impression that it is an Acura, it would be difficult for me to spend the almost same amount of money for a Pilot while I can get a MDX.

I went to a dealer at Seaside, CA and the sales guy trying to sell me the demo EXL for $1600 over MSRP even their web site says MSRP (for the demo one only). The other EXL listed on their web site are $2,000 over MSRP. I walked away!

wmquan

Excellent point made here, about the reason the leather as an incremental cost not retaining the same proportion of value as the overall vehicle.

This is also highly likely to be true with accessories, and possibly the nav system and the DVD Res (that they will retain less of the value in a trade-in, or for a residual set-up, than the overall vehicle). I've noticed that with the MDX, the nav system trade-in as currently posted on KBB is a small fraction of its purchase price.

It could also be in many vehicles that it's better to buy the higher trim level instead of accessorizing a lower trim level; the former may hold the value better than the latter, though it may still trail the overall vehicle percentage.

wmquan

Why should you be frustrated that Acura isn't selling the '03 MDX yet? It's always been scheduled for the normal introduction season, which will be around the fall.

crikey

I learn something new everyday...

cujo3131

I have been reading throughout the board that dealers are selling the Pilot for above MSRP. I love the Pilot but I cannot fathom paying above sticker. I know of a dealer that is selling them at MSRP and if anyone is interested you can contact the guy I know. His name is Mike Goeller and he can be reached at 800-373-2711. He is in St. Joseph Missouri.

litespeed51

I just purchased a EX-L at Yuba City Honda for MSRP with no DIO's. I was on everyones "list" from Merced to Medford, Or. When I called Yuba City, they had the one that I wanted. I was told that they were marking up the Pilots by $3,000. I called the next day and told them that I would buy it that day if they sold it at MSRP. The salesman (Frank) checked with the Sales Manager and owner and got the OK. I got there at 12:30 and left with the car at 2:30. Yuba City Honda was great.

What worked for me was to call a lot of dealers and find one that had what I wanted in stock. I was ready to buy and not willing to pay over MSRP. The dealers are in the business of selling cars, and money still talks.

I think if you are willing to do a bit of legwork, you can find one at MSRP. It seems that the further the dealer was away from a major metro area, the more likely they had Pilots on the lot. Be ready to buy immediately.

Thats what worked for me. Or maybe I was just lucky.

bmtr

ksoman,
Would you mind telling me which dealerships in Phoenix are giving the internet discounts....to save $2000 we would be happy to buy in AZ and then drive it home back to Maine! I looked up Bell Honda and Earnhardt, but I couldn't find any other dealers. Thanks so much.

kai_ming

I logged into arrowhead's website but unable
to find pilot nor price. Is there more information?

falcon74

I found the Arrowhead Honda website but there is no mention of the Pilot in its specials. Also, I could not find the $100 coupon. Can you email me at falconsss@hotmail.com with the website you were speaking of? Thanks

davisdog

just for grins I went to the arrowhead site...but like the others I see no mention of the Pilot in any of their new car info. Their internet pricing "specials" for the CRV and Odyssey are both straight "msrp" which is nothing special so I seriously doubt they are doing the pilot at 2000 below MRSP based on that alone.

stever

We don't recommend posting email addresses on Town Hall; better to mark it "public" in your profile. We can't keep spammers from harvesting emails but it's tougher to get them from the profiles.

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tommyg12

Once again, Honda seems to "trickle" their latest model in to get the consumer to compete with each other.

I fell into this trap back in '99 with the S2000. The dealers were 12K over invoice but I only paid 3K over. It is not so much paying over invoice that I regret as it is not waiting for the second model year. I treated this car like a baby but within 9K miles, I had a defective transmission, defective differential, oil leaks, and numerous rattles. This car was in for service more than my father's Cadillac.

Hopefully Honda has had a few years to work out any kinks with the MDX and the Pilot will not be plagued with issues like the S2000. I've always owned Honda, would never consider anything else but......

My wife and I left the Honda dealer after a test drive and went and drove a Toyota Highlander. We don't need the third seat so that is not an issue for us. This is the first Toyota that I've ever driven and I hate to admit it, but the 'Yota was much quieter inside and felt more refined. I did not notice the missing 20HP, but I have no idea how these two vehicles would compare off road, skidpad, etc. The Pilot is rated at 17mpg city and the HL at 19 (with only a 4spd auto).

The Toyota was a Limited 4wd with all options including the side airbags, VSC, heated seats, and sunroof (which I was suprised is not available on the Honda). But wow the sticker was right at 36k, but then the sales rep told me that they would sell at 500 over invoice, which turned out to be a total of 32.5K. This makes the decision very difficult!!!

I read that Nissan will not allow markup on the upcoming 350Z and BMW will supposedly not allow markup on the Mini. I don't know if this is true but if so, come on Honda help us out.

stever

If they are putting prices up on a public website, then I don't see why you couldn't post them elsewhere.

Steve
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rwestmoreland1

Steve ..this is Randy from Arrowhead Honda..please post a notice regarding the info on our web-site..I am not down loading info till July 1st..there is no where on my listing showing Pilots for a "special price"
And please inform the person posting this erroneous information to stop...

Thank you

Randy

tidester

And please inform the person posting this erroneous information to stop...

You just informed him!

tidester
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ksoman

Randy,

I am sorry to say, but either you do not understand how your web site works or technology doesnt do what you want. I can still get to your new inventory and see Pilots listed. Earlier there were 5 pilots, now there are 4. Some of the Stock #'s have changed. The big change is of course, all the internet prices have disappeared and been replaced by "Please Call". I bet you on the phone for 1000 bux that I can see Pilots on your website, I still can. The good thing is, I have a print out from yesterday with your Internet prices on it.

Steve,
Does this (dealer site) being a publicly accessible website give me the right to actually post the stock #s and prices as I saw them and as I see them now? I have a print out to back me up.

Others:
I am sorry for this grievance to all of you. I know, this dealership is 2 miles from my house but I aint going there anymore, ever. Thank you. This just demonstrates the demand and supply curves have either not caught up and when they do, it'll leave a very very bad after taste in the mouth of people who generally like Honda, but are more and more unhappy with the Dealerships selling these fine vehicles. Incidentally, I still have a deposit with another dealer for a EX-L Navi Pilot at MSRP. But rest assured, now I'm all the more inclined to spend some more money and get the MDX.

Oh, btw Randy, my information was not erroneous. You guys just got caught on the wrong foot.

Thanks
ksso

tom_s

Dude,
I checked out that website yesterday.
Like everyone else I didn't see pilots listed
at all. If you got the proof show it otherwise
clam up
-Tom

sbcooke

I was able to view 4 pilots in stock. Go to the new honda line-up, accord web page, select new vehicle inventory, sort by model and go to last page. Here are the text listings. I found this page via google and the dealer is located in Arizona? Maybe it isn't the same one. I found this information on the first try.

2003, HONDA, PILOT, BK, $32,020, Please Call, 30014
2003, HONDA, PILOT, RE, $26,900, Please Call, 30016
2003, HONDA, PILOT, SI/GR, $32,480, Please Call, 30018
2003, HONDA, PILOT, WH/FN, $32,480, Please Call, 30019

rwestmoreland1

For your information and others...The link you pulled up is a search for complete inventory of the dealership.This is automatically downloaded from inventory files.That is why it is not posted on the front vehicle search...That is why you cannot pull up the Pilot on the front search...If you did in fact pull up an inventory search and it did show a Pilot and a price ..you sidesteped a front file to get a complete inventory search..All I can do in that case is apoligize for the error..We have offered no special pricing and that is why it is not on the first page..This will happen after July 1st as noted..

To bad mouth our dealership is your choice.We are the #1 ranked dealership in Arizona and have had nothing but good write ups accordingly...

And curious to note that if you were already buying a Pilot from another local dealership..why did you never contact our dealership before today..???

sbcooke

Didn't sidestep. Your search engine doesn't work, when I went to new vehicle inventory, I chose PILOT. It returned (as you said) the entire inventory.

ksoman

I did not side step anything. Too bad if your site is dysfunctional. Maybe you can go sue the vendor who made it for you.
I was browsing some vehicles, I found a link to New Vehicles Inventory, I searched and found these Pilots listed there yesterday...
Year Make Model Color Retail Price Internet Price Stock #
2003 Honda Pilot BL $30,520 $27,916 30013
2003 Honda Pilot BK $32,020 $29,264 30014
2003 Honda Pilot RE $26,900 $24,663 30016
2003 Honda Pilot WH/FN $30,980 $27,916 30017
2003 Honda Pilot SI/GR $32,480 $29,264 30018

As to why I did not put money down with you first? Because I'm still waiting for your email reply after 2 days. I sent you two emails through your website, on 19th and today. You haven't bothered to reply to one. The automated replies donot count. As for bad mouthing, I'm not, I just stated my opinion on a public forum.

I have emails for 12 people asking me where Arrowhead honda is... seems like, I've not only dissapointed all these people, some of them as far away as Maine, but well, 12 less sold for you I guess, I guess.

Good luck though.

ksso

tidester

Isn't there a difference between prices paid and prices advertised?

tidester
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