Honda Odyssey Transmission Problems

hobieslug96

just came back from the tranny recall
as I suspected they removed the counter shaft speed sensor and second gear was right there in plain sight. and they installed the jet which transfers fluid threw the filler plug onto 2nd gear. you would have to remove the jet (one hold down bolt)to fill the tranny or you can do what I always do get a 1/2 i.d.(inner dia.) heater hose, it fits perfectly around the dipstick tube, get a tranny funnel that fits in the hose and you wont spill a drop and it goes in quick
now about the gear. I have 90,000 miles on my 02(the dealer thought it was a Canadian car and he was reading kilometers) the gear was perfect no discoloration saw it myself
talked to the mechanic while he did the job he says they checked around 100 tranny's and never found a bad one
just remember to do your tranny oil changes the way honda tells you to do it. very important.
anyone using tranny fluid other than honda? I use valvoline max life dextron 3 mercon, after the warranty expired which was about 7 mo. after purchase.

rbell2

About 6 weeks ago we started noticing an intermittent "hesitation or shutter" around 40mph when driving around town. When I took it in for the tranny gear inspection and lube update, I told them about it. They diagnosed it to be a bad EGR valve and changed it under warranty. They also said my second gear was OK and they added the lube kit. Since we took the car home and went on a 2,400 mile trip, it is running smooth as silk.

aspesisteve

decided not to wait for Honda to send me my re-call notice for my '02 tranny and had the lube jet installed at 19,000 miles.

If the lack of lube can cause heat build up and wear on this part, I figured why wait?

Anyone know if the tranny fluid was replaced when they perform this work?

Also, I asked the service rep if I could pull at 1,800 pound tent trailer without the tranny cooler and he said no problem - it won't void the warranty.

anonymousposts

The Ody is rated for 1500 lbs without the tranny cooler so 1800 shouldn't cause problems.

alkanx

Trany on my Ody was done at 16k miles - I was told that no fluid was replaced, need to take it back before 30k to get that done, I might get that done around 25k...

jenlperry

What does the recall mean to those buying 04 odys from this point on? Should we expect problems too? or would they have been fixed already?

parveentexas

I took my 02 Ody for the trans recall to the local dealership. Since I have only 13K miles, the dealer said they did NOT have to inspect or take/email photos to honda of the 2nd gear. And so the dealer just installed the oil jet kit on my van.

Ques 1. Where exactly is this kit installed? I asked the service mgr & he said it is hard to see & you need to "mirrors" to be able to see it???
Is there a way to tell if a kit has been installed or not in an Ody? Where would I look?

Ques 2. A few posts up (post #563) talks about "recall of the timing belt bearing that can possibly be misaligned". I never got a letter from honda on that recall. Also, only the tran recall shows up under my van's VIN # at the honda web-site. Is it only some vans that were impacted by this recall & not others? Is this a non-issue for my van OR do I have to talk to dealer about this?

honda5

If anyone can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. My 2001 Honda Odyssey has 72,000 miles on it and now I am on the 2nd (not including the original)installed transmission. The last transmission was installed 2 weeks ago and it looks like it was installed improperly or we just went through another one because all the indicator lights and slippage is occurring again now. Any recommendation on how to go about this with Honda? This is a ticking time bomb until the problem gets fixed. One slip of the gears at the wrong time.....

I will be taking it into the dealer again but this is just wrong! One transmission went at 36k and the second at 72K. What happens at 108K? I get stuck with a $5500 charge? Please let me know if you have any experiences with this issue. We are now all reaching high (relative term)miles on our Odyssey's, so it's about time we start seeing second transmissions put on these vehicles.

Can a class action lawsuit be brought at this point since there are so many problems. We all purchased Honda's for their great reputations. They obviously sold us a dangerous and defective car. How many people have been injured because of the defect? Has anyone heard? What can we do? - Thanks for your help.

exvan

Before tranny recall work, tach was smooth but now leaps up to 2500/3500 rpms as soon as gas is applied and van begins to move. It then quickly drops to normal.

Anything like that happening to any of you?

madijo

You might want to try contacting Hondas dispute resolution board. If they have one like ford does, they will review your case and give you a judgment. I did this with Ford and they bought my 2002 Mercury Mountaineer back. Your owners manual should have the info in the back section.

parveentexas

Steve,
You wrote "they put the little lubrication gizmo on". Is this something you can see? Let me know the details of where to see the the "oil jet kit". Thanks.

aspesisteve

madijo,
can't see it
can only assume it's there and doing the job

can you say a prayer for my tranny please?

kimo9

I took my '04 Odyssey in last week and had the necessary work done pertaining to the recall.

First, if you look down at the transmission (top right if facing the vehicle), you can see some hoses one of which protrudes out of the ATF filler hole.

Second, the service guy told me that filling it through the dipstick hole was the way they did it there. I've taken that step and bought some clear plastic tubing (1/2" I.D.) that slips over the tube. However, I noticed that it isn't a tight fit so I added a slip clamp that makes it nice and secure without fear of transmission fluid leaking out.
 
Third, how much fluid is required to move from the low mark (dot) on the dipstick to the high mark (dot).

odyienna

I am bouncing between Sienna and Odyssey and trying to determine if this Tranny Fiasco is finally over. There seems alot of posts for 99 and 2000 vans and the new tranny in 02 and finally a "fix" for these, does it look like we are out of the woods on this one?

msibille

Hard to say.
I haven't been around here for some time, but looked over a few msgs further up. People noted that tranny problems have been plaguing the Ody since 1999. That's true, but more importantly, they have not all been the same tranny design. In fact, we have owned 4 Odys, beginning with a 1999, and now a 2002. Because each vehicle change (except for one that was rear-ended at a signal light) was due to problems kw/ the tranny, that were then made worse by a botched job from the svc dept, I have looked very closely at the exterior of each after the installation. I can personally attest that there have been AT LEAST 3 different trannys. Not just the number of speeds have changed once, but even the exterior appearance of the tranny has been different on 3 of the 4 vehicles that we've had.

So, will this fix it? I hope so, but I think the first step is to terminate employment of the manager of the drivetrain group responsible for this trio of debacles. I'm a mechanical engineer, working a great deal with machinery, structures, and hydraulic power system design. I DO make my share of mistakes. However, 3 in a row on the same component seems a bit excessive to me.

On the positive side, at least this problem (2002- ) is identified and a plausible fix provided. If this is the only problem w/ this design, it should be resolved now. In the previous designs, I still don't believe that Honda ever truly identified the problem, which is the first step in finding a valid solution.

As for the fix, my understanding, from the sketchy info provided, is that a portion of the return flow from the cooling coil is diverted by a nozzle as a stream upon the 2nd gears. Since the oil would normally just go into the sump for pickup by the pump, this diversion is not likely to be an issue.

bad2001odyssey

I just purchased a 2001 Odyssey, 5 days later I got a check engine & TCS light that came on. I took it to a local dealer & was told it needed a new transmission (36500 miles). Took it back to the dealer that we purchased it from & was told that they already had it in stock. They thought I was the previous owner who brought it in 2 weeks prior. Long story short, the dealership knew it had a bad transmission but didn't tell us. Instead, they certified the vehicle & put it back on the lot & sold it to us. The previous owners decided not to pay for a new transmission & instead trade it in. (their warranty ended at 36k miles). When confronted, Community Honda in Orland Park, IL offered to give us $100.00. Very unethical!! We demanded that the contract be canceled & we are in the process of returning the vehicle.
Good luck! Many, many problems with 01 Honda Odyssey transmissions. That is why they now offer a 100k warranty on the used ones!

stoopid1

I have reason to believe that I may soon be negotiating the purchase of an '04 Ody and I was wondering if someone could help out with some tranny info. I have several questions.

I understand there has been 600,000 American units recalled which include Ody's, Pilots and Accuras. Of that number does anyone know how many were acutally Ody's?

Does anyone know how many '04 Odys were manufactured?

Do you think that ALL '04 trannys should be recalled but Honda is just tagging certain VIN numbers to keep down replacement costs?

How reliable do you think VIN # ID of possibly defective trannys is (i.e., what are the odds of a tranny problem being "missed" in the recall)?

Alternatively, does Honda cover replacement of the tranny if your particular VIN number is not tagged for recall? (I'm assuming as long as its still under warranty and if you're having problems replacement (outside of recall) would still happen.

Are the recalled transmissions coming out of one particular assembly plant? (I understand its a design not a manufacturing defect but perhaps one plant got more than its share of the defective ones!)

If you had the "lubrication" kit installed on a brand new motor before much driving do you think it would help eliminate future tranny problems?

Do you think that the Ody transmission recall is widespread enough that dealers should know that '04 models are under recall? (My dealer said they weren't aware of an '04 recall!)

And finally do you think most dealers are aware of the fact that its a federal offense to sell a vehicle that is under a recall to a customer without either advance notification or repair of said recall?

Any help you can give regarding these questions would be most appreciated. Many thanks!

Stoopid1

chucky

Honda says that the new odysseys (out of the recall VIN) has the fix in the transmission. I observed the transmission, but there is no external oil jet. So perhaps the transmission has a fix internally or perhaps not .. who knows.

The only major difference is the transmission of newer Odysseys (after the recall VINs) is Made in Japan and not in Ohio. (See the Window sticker). So it may be a different design or have better materials or quality control or tolerances.

stoopid1

Thanks, Chucky, for your reply to my post. I appreciate the information. I'm trying to make an informed and educated decision so I can enjoy some comfortability with my purchase. Again, many thanks!

Stoopid1 (although maybe not too Stoopid for long!)

msibille

(you may wish to look over my post 590 again as well)
The problem, as identified, is heat buildup. Involute gears, whether straight or helical, have a certain amount of sliding, which develops heat. The higher the tooth load (torque on the gear, or load on the vehicle) the higher the friction, and the higher the speed at a given load, the higher the rate of heat generation. Lubrication not only reduces the friction, lowering the rate of heat buildup, but carries away that heat for dumping to the atmosphere at the sump and/or the cooler (in the case of the auto trans, a small cooling coil is std equipment, and an additional cooler is optional in the towing pkg). However, in the original design of this tranny (which is actually at least the 3rd major design for the Ody), there is apparently insufficient cooling for the 2nd gear set at certain combinations of speed and load. (Probably because at other speed/load combinations the rate of heat gen is lower, or the gears shift.) In any event, the oil returning from the cooler, dumps in the sump, for pickup by the pump suction screen. The retrofit is a kit that directs some of that flow onto the gearset directly. I haven't seen anything on the production fix, but the expected fix would be a modification to the machining that would internally route more of the normal cooling flow to that gear set, without the need for the nozzle.

If this is the only problem, the fix should solve it, and the internal mods of new units would (hopefully) avoid it in new production. (but see 590 above)

stoopid1

Wow! Thanks msibille! Your knowledge about the mechanics of the transmission along with your ability to make a "layperson" understand same is most impressive!! Thank you for taking the time to respond. My guess at this point and after taking my questions to the Honda Customer Care center representative is that it basically a roulette as to whether or not you'll get a vehicle with these problems. We're headed to the dealer tomorrow to see what comes of all this. I'll post the results of our meeting. Again many thanks for your wisdom!

Stoopid1

isellhondas

Since so few were actually affected. Any 2004 being sold now has had the modification.

Even without the modification it would be extremely rare to have a problem.

camerauser

I am trying to answer some questions from a potential buyer. Some are opinions of an owner.

"I understand there has been 600,000 American units recalled which include Ody's, Pilots and Accuras. Of that number does anyone know how many were acutally Ody's? "

Approximately 307,000 Odysseys were sold during 2002 and 2003.according to hondanews. Some could have been 2004 models.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID0000?mid=2004010944909&mime=asc

  "Does anyone know how many '04 Odys were manufactured?"
Approximately 76,000 were sold in year 2004 through June 2004. Some may have been 2003's.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID0000?mid=2004070150112&mime=asc

" Do you think that ALL '04 trannys should be recalled..."
I think the 5 speed in the MDX, Pilot, and Odyssey are not up to the reliability standard expected by the Honda customer. Also, the April 2004 oil jet recall does nothing to cure the more common way these transmissions fail, which may include slipping, flaring, and not going into gear . Only the maker knows what the number of problems really is. I believe the warranty should be extended to at least the level of the 1999-2001 models, 7 yr, 100,000 miles and a remedy to the root cause of the problem in all vehicles. I do not know exactly what the internal problem is. I suspect it is degeneration of clutches, local overheating and clogging of oil passages like in the Acura CL or TL. Only the manufacturer knows for sure.

"How reliable do you think VIN # ID of possibly defective trannys is (i.e., what are the odds of a tranny problem being "missed" in the recall)? "

The more common transmission failure mode is not helped by the April 2004 oil jet recall. So the April recall misses any failure that is not due to 2nd gear overheating and cracking.
Only the manufacturer would know if some 2004's needing the oil jet will be missed.

"Alternatively, does Honda cover replacement of the tranny if your particular VIN number is not tagged for recall? (I'm assuming as long as its still under warranty and if you're having problems replacement (outside of recall) would still happen."

The warranty should cover problems within the warranty period, whatever the cause. If the VIN is not tagged for recall, a modification may have been made already to address the issue in the April 2004 oil jet recall.

" Are the recalled transmissions coming out of one particular assembly plant? (I understand its a design not a manufacturing defect but perhaps one plant got more than its share of the defective ones!)"

All Odysseys of any year where I have seen the window sticker have transmissions made in Japan. Most 2004 Odysseys are assembled in Alabama.

" If you had the "lubrication" kit installed on a brand new motor before much driving do you think it would help eliminate future tranny problems? "

The lubrication kit or oil jet is on the transmission. No, I do not think the lube kit will eliminate transmission problems in general. Just the 2nd gear overheat problem.

"Do you think that the Ody transmission recall is widespread enough that dealers should know that '04 models are under recall? (My dealer said they weren't aware of an '04 recall!) "

Yes.

"And finally do you think most dealers are aware of the fact that its a federal offense to sell a vehicle that is under a recall to a customer without either advance notification or repair of said recall? "
Do not count on it.
Dealers want to sell. Dealers know what makes a sale.
I wish you luck and a reliable vehicle.

Here is a link to the oil jet recall service bulletin.
http://www.smokinsales.com/HApdfs/a04-021.pdfhttp/www.smokinsales.com/HApdfs/a04-021.pdf

camerauser

Sorry for the wrong link. Here is the valid link to the service bulletin for the oil jet recall.

http://www.smokinsales.com/HApdfs/a04-021.pdf

aspesisteve

do you wear a plaid suit, chew gum and smoke cigarettes in between your ups?

isellhondas

Of course! White patent leather shoes and belt too!

Actually, I'm about as opposite of your stereotype as I could possibly be....sorry to disappoint.

rbell2

Typical forward looking statement from a salesman. I have heard them all. Some are quite humorous and very wrong. The fact is, no one yet knows if the "fix" has fixed anything - need a little more time - like 100,000 miles.

Buyers - Get all the raw data and info you can and make your best decision. Don't use opinions or predictions - especially from car salesmen or dealers. Many tend to be tainted.

isellhondas

Because I spend a lot of time out in the shop talking to the guys. In forums such as this, problems can definatly got amplified beyond reality.

The majority of owners won't have problems.

I'm just glad Honda has taken a pro-active approach to insure the affected cars will be minimal.

indy93

Hardly think waiting 5 years through 3 generations of transmissions and 650,000 vehicles recalled can be considered PRO -ACTIVE!

isellhondas

Oh, I don't know...

They could have simply done nothing and just replaced the transmissions with problems instead of bring the affected cars in for the update that will correct the problem from happening in the future.

anonymousposts

Best as I can recall the 00-01 Accord trannys were recalled by 02. Hardly 5 years worth of waiting.

msibille

You're quite welcome. Hope it helps.
My wife's Ody goes in for the recall tomorrow a.m.
I'm anxious to see if (hoping) it doesn't need anything other than the lube jet. (Most of my big prblms have occurred when the svc dept worked on the vehicle.)

grandtotal

If Honda had not voluntarily issued this recall then it would have been federally mandated. "Simply doing nothing" was not an option.

robevts

Hmmm...our 2003 odyssey will be turning over 15K miles in just a couple more months. Apparently, Honda will be taking a closer look at transmissions over 15k, with even the possibility of transmission replacement if there is damage. Should I wait until mine turns 15k before bringing it in for the recall??

dave594

Well, I thought I might be having a problem with the front wheel bearings, but may turn out to be the tranny. My 99 with 63k miles has been making a loud humming sound from the front end that is noticeable above 40 mph the last few thousand miles. Originally I thought it was the new tires as the sound came right after the tires were changed. But last week I had the tires checked out at Costco, where I bought them, and the manager at the tire store told me they were inspected and nothing was wrong, and even balanced them for free. He said that it might be a bearing going bad so I took it to the dealer to day to have it looked at. This afternoon the service writer tells me the mechanic thinks it may be more than a bearing that's making the noise. They're not sure but say it could be the tranny. They're not sure until they have a tranny specialist look at it tomorrow. Anyway, besides the noise there's nothing I had experienced with this van that would suggest to me the tranny was going bad. I do feel some vibration coming through the steering wheel at certain speeds (about 60 mph and higher), but it's very slight and barely noticeable. The thought of a new tranny doesn't necessarily bother me since it's under warranty, but I do hope it isn't and I get the car back sooner than having to wait for a replacement tranny and the swap.

doncas

My 2003 Odyssey is part of the recall and the transmission was made in Japan according to the sticker. I dropped it off this morning. We'll see how things go.

yashapro

I am looking to buy an '02 EX w/60K. The transmission was recently replaced by a dealer as part of the recall. However, some posts indicate that remanufactured trannys have problems as well. Honda has assured me that any component replaced as part of the recall has a lifetime warranty.

Does anyone have any positive or negative experience with trannys following the replacment on 02 - 04? Also, any experience with the 'lifetime warranty' after the recall?

crkeehn

"If Honda had not voluntarily issued this recall then it would have been federally mandated. "Simply doing nothing" was not an option."

Not necessarily true. Federal recalls are issued for safety or emission related causes. The NHTSA website provides a section which outlines recall procedures. Among the mentioned areas would be steering or suspension failures, fuel system or electrical system faults that could lead to a fire hazard, seats, seat tracks or restraint system failures and so forth. Ford with the Windstar had an ongoing problem with the transmission. The 1995 model year especially was noted for transmission failures. If you review the recalls for that model year, none of them are related to either the transmission or the head gasket as neither was considered safety related.

Honda is being very proactive in admitting the problem with their transmissions and trying to correct them, Federal law would not require it.

fis

Can you believe this? My '99 Odyssey had the transmission replaced within the first year, then again in the third year, then again just 3,000 miles ago. Each time you could tell it was failing (slow clunky shifting at first before eventually losing gears altogether). Honda USA did not hesitate to pay for rental cars and extend the warranty on our transmission. Now the last straw: Complete and sudden transmission failure on the highway, only 3K miles after the last transmission repair. I don't care if it's 5 years old. I'm invoking the lemon law and will not be bringing this car back to my house.

stoopid1

Wow, camerauser!! Thank you so much for taking so much time to try and help me out with my questions. I really appreciate your effort and input. After full frontal personal attack by avid (rabid) Honda supporters I'm beginning to feel uncomfortable for even THINKING let alone posting any questions regarding the reliability and safety of any Honda vehicle. It helps to believe there are those other than myself that are looking beyond the hype and trying to analyze the real story with these vehicles. I like facts not salesmanship. Again, thank you for the time you spent answering my questions. I appreciate your effort!

Stoopid1

stoopid1

Hey Msibille

Just wanted to quickly touch base back with you -- How's your wife's tranny after the "fix"? Thanks!

Stoopid1

Mr_Shiftright

The trick in getting along in online forums is to offer courtesy at all times to people with different points of view. This includes an absence of innuendo regarding their motives, occupation or allegiances.

Host

stoopid1

Good Grief, Fis!! How scary for you and your family!! My best to you in your attempt to remedy this situation. What a nightmare!!

Stoopid1

cooldad24

Honda did screw up this time. And 7 yr/100K is not good enough for their reputation. They should provide lifetime coverage on the problem of this. This will then give customers confidence to keep buying Honda products. This insufficent extension will encourage Ody owners to get rid of theirs by the term is up and suffer lower re-sell price. I don't know how severe this impact is since only time could tell. I am not suprised to see their sale number drop in the near future. They already intensively post TV commercial for big sale as early as Aug. Is it a sign? Toyota and Nissan definitely will benefit from its slip. They will keep attack Honda on this tranny problem for years. At least I will not buy any Honda with V6 tranny in the next 2-3 years until they modify the current one.

isellhondas

I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts on this one because anything is possible in the wide scope of things, I suppose.

stever

Yeah, that beats Pat84's 3 Odyssey trannies in 68k.

Steve, Host

isellhondas

Anything is possible. I could win the Lottery tomorrow too.

Still, when I hear a story like this one a nagging thought enters my cynical mind.

Maybe it's a disgruntled ex-employee or someone who sells for the competition.

Who knows?

I guess I did share my thoughts after all.

Just odd, since the overwhelming majority had no troubles at all, wouldn't you think?

fis

isellhondas, Oh... I wish it were true. I love Hondas. I have owned two Hondas and two Acuras and will purchase Honda products again, but this was a lemon. Our Odyssey sits 150 miles away at a Honda dealer awaiting its FOURTH replacement (i.e. 5th) transmission. My wife spoke to an unpleasant woman from Honda USA today who said they would not transport the car back to us. We don't even want it back. A strict reading of my state's lemon law says that since we notified Honda of this problem when the car had only 5,000 miles on it, and since Honda has been unable to fix the problem after 3+ attempts, and since the problem causes a complete breakdown of the car, then we have a right to demand a refund of nearly the entire original purchase price. Can't believe I'm invoking the lemon law on Honda, but my wife won't drive my kids in this car again, and I don't blame her.

just4fun2

I believe that Honda not only should give you a "NEW" van, but throw in something extra for your trouble. Honda has been able to sell these vans to people for "FULL" MSRP because people believed in Honda.

It's time for Honda to give a little of their high profits back in this case.

I almost bought one of these vans in 02, everyday I thank my lucky stars that I didn't.

Good luck and don't let them wear you down.

cooldad24

Have you been able to speak to the manager of customer service dept.? Many time I found they are those who really has authority to do something to satisfy customers.