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Honda Odyssey Transmission Problems
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as I suspected they removed the counter shaft speed sensor and second gear was right there in plain sight. and they installed the jet which transfers fluid threw the filler plug onto 2nd gear. you would have to remove the jet (one hold down bolt)to fill the tranny or you can do what I always do get a 1/2 i.d.(inner dia.) heater hose, it fits perfectly around the dipstick tube, get a tranny funnel that fits in the hose and you wont spill a drop and it goes in quick
now about the gear. I have 90,000 miles on my 02(the dealer thought it was a Canadian car and he was reading kilometers) the gear was perfect no discoloration saw it myself
talked to the mechanic while he did the job he says they checked around 100 tranny's and never found a bad one
just remember to do your tranny oil changes the way honda tells you to do it. very important.
anyone using tranny fluid other than honda? I use valvoline max life dextron 3 mercon, after the warranty expired which was about 7 mo. after purchase.
If the lack of lube can cause heat build up and wear on this part, I figured why wait?
Anyone know if the tranny fluid was replaced when they perform this work?
Also, I asked the service rep if I could pull at 1,800 pound tent trailer without the tranny cooler and he said no problem - it won't void the warranty.
Ques 1. Where exactly is this kit installed? I asked the service mgr & he said it is hard to see & you need to "mirrors" to be able to see it???
Is there a way to tell if a kit has been installed or not in an Ody? Where would I look?
Ques 2. A few posts up (post #563) talks about "recall of the timing belt bearing that can possibly be misaligned". I never got a letter from honda on that recall. Also, only the tran recall shows up under my van's VIN # at the honda web-site. Is it only some vans that were impacted by this recall & not others? Is this a non-issue for my van OR do I have to talk to dealer about this?
I will be taking it into the dealer again but this is just wrong! One transmission went at 36k and the second at 72K. What happens at 108K? I get stuck with a $5500 charge? Please let me know if you have any experiences with this issue. We are now all reaching high (relative term)miles on our Odyssey's, so it's about time we start seeing second transmissions put on these vehicles.
Can a class action lawsuit be brought at this point since there are so many problems. We all purchased Honda's for their great reputations. They obviously sold us a dangerous and defective car. How many people have been injured because of the defect? Has anyone heard? What can we do? - Thanks for your help.
Anything like that happening to any of you?
You wrote "they put the little lubrication gizmo on". Is this something you can see? Let me know the details of where to see the the "oil jet kit". Thanks.
can't see it
can only assume it's there and doing the job
can you say a prayer for my tranny please?
First, if you look down at the transmission (top right if facing the vehicle), you can see some hoses one of which protrudes out of the ATF filler hole.
Second, the service guy told me that filling it through the dipstick hole was the way they did it there. I've taken that step and bought some clear plastic tubing (1/2" I.D.) that slips over the tube. However, I noticed that it isn't a tight fit so I added a slip clamp that makes it nice and secure without fear of transmission fluid leaking out.
Third, how much fluid is required to move from the low mark (dot) on the dipstick to the high mark (dot).
I haven't been around here for some time, but looked over a few msgs further up. People noted that tranny problems have been plaguing the Ody since 1999. That's true, but more importantly, they have not all been the same tranny design. In fact, we have owned 4 Odys, beginning with a 1999, and now a 2002. Because each vehicle change (except for one that was rear-ended at a signal light) was due to problems kw/ the tranny, that were then made worse by a botched job from the svc dept, I have looked very closely at the exterior of each after the installation. I can personally attest that there have been AT LEAST 3 different trannys. Not just the number of speeds have changed once, but even the exterior appearance of the tranny has been different on 3 of the 4 vehicles that we've had.
So, will this fix it? I hope so, but I think the first step is to terminate employment of the manager of the drivetrain group responsible for this trio of debacles. I'm a mechanical engineer, working a great deal with machinery, structures, and hydraulic power system design. I DO make my share of mistakes. However, 3 in a row on the same component seems a bit excessive to me.
On the positive side, at least this problem (2002- ) is identified and a plausible fix provided. If this is the only problem w/ this design, it should be resolved now. In the previous designs, I still don't believe that Honda ever truly identified the problem, which is the first step in finding a valid solution.
As for the fix, my understanding, from the sketchy info provided, is that a portion of the return flow from the cooling coil is diverted by a nozzle as a stream upon the 2nd gears. Since the oil would normally just go into the sump for pickup by the pump, this diversion is not likely to be an issue.
Good luck! Many, many problems with 01 Honda Odyssey transmissions. That is why they now offer a 100k warranty on the used ones!
I understand there has been 600,000 American units recalled which include Ody's, Pilots and Accuras. Of that number does anyone know how many were acutally Ody's?
Does anyone know how many '04 Odys were manufactured?
Do you think that ALL '04 trannys should be recalled but Honda is just tagging certain VIN numbers to keep down replacement costs?
How reliable do you think VIN # ID of possibly defective trannys is (i.e., what are the odds of a tranny problem being "missed" in the recall)?
Alternatively, does Honda cover replacement of the tranny if your particular VIN number is not tagged for recall? (I'm assuming as long as its still under warranty and if you're having problems replacement (outside of recall) would still happen.
Are the recalled transmissions coming out of one particular assembly plant? (I understand its a design not a manufacturing defect but perhaps one plant got more than its share of the defective ones!)
If you had the "lubrication" kit installed on a brand new motor before much driving do you think it would help eliminate future tranny problems?
Do you think that the Ody transmission recall is widespread enough that dealers should know that '04 models are under recall? (My dealer said they weren't aware of an '04 recall!)
And finally do you think most dealers are aware of the fact that its a federal offense to sell a vehicle that is under a recall to a customer without either advance notification or repair of said recall?
Any help you can give regarding these questions would be most appreciated. Many thanks!
Stoopid1
The only major difference is the transmission of newer Odysseys (after the recall VINs) is Made in Japan and not in Ohio. (See the Window sticker). So it may be a different design or have better materials or quality control or tolerances.
Stoopid1 (although maybe not too Stoopid for long!)
The problem, as identified, is heat buildup. Involute gears, whether straight or helical, have a certain amount of sliding, which develops heat. The higher the tooth load (torque on the gear, or load on the vehicle) the higher the friction, and the higher the speed at a given load, the higher the rate of heat generation. Lubrication not only reduces the friction, lowering the rate of heat buildup, but carries away that heat for dumping to the atmosphere at the sump and/or the cooler (in the case of the auto trans, a small cooling coil is std equipment, and an additional cooler is optional in the towing pkg). However, in the original design of this tranny (which is actually at least the 3rd major design for the Ody), there is apparently insufficient cooling for the 2nd gear set at certain combinations of speed and load. (Probably because at other speed/load combinations the rate of heat gen is lower, or the gears shift.) In any event, the oil returning from the cooler, dumps in the sump, for pickup by the pump suction screen. The retrofit is a kit that directs some of that flow onto the gearset directly. I haven't seen anything on the production fix, but the expected fix would be a modification to the machining that would internally route more of the normal cooling flow to that gear set, without the need for the nozzle.
If this is the only problem, the fix should solve it, and the internal mods of new units would (hopefully) avoid it in new production. (but see 590 above)
Stoopid1
Even without the modification it would be extremely rare to have a problem.
"I understand there has been 600,000 American units recalled which include Ody's, Pilots and Accuras. Of that number does anyone know how many were acutally Ody's? "
Approximately 307,000 Odysseys were sold during 2002 and 2003.according to hondanews. Some could have been 2004 models.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID0000?mid=2004010944909&mime=asc
"Does anyone know how many '04 Odys were manufactured?"
Approximately 76,000 were sold in year 2004 through June 2004. Some may have been 2003's.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID0000?mid=2004070150112&mime=asc
" Do you think that ALL '04 trannys should be recalled..."
I think the 5 speed in the MDX, Pilot, and Odyssey are not up to the reliability standard expected by the Honda customer. Also, the April 2004 oil jet recall does nothing to cure the more common way these transmissions fail, which may include slipping, flaring, and not going into gear . Only the maker knows what the number of problems really is. I believe the warranty should be extended to at least the level of the 1999-2001 models, 7 yr, 100,000 miles and a remedy to the root cause of the problem in all vehicles. I do not know exactly what the internal problem is. I suspect it is degeneration of clutches, local overheating and clogging of oil passages like in the Acura CL or TL. Only the manufacturer knows for sure.
"How reliable do you think VIN # ID of possibly defective trannys is (i.e., what are the odds of a tranny problem being "missed" in the recall)? "
The more common transmission failure mode is not helped by the April 2004 oil jet recall. So the April recall misses any failure that is not due to 2nd gear overheating and cracking.
Only the manufacturer would know if some 2004's needing the oil jet will be missed.
"Alternatively, does Honda cover replacement of the tranny if your particular VIN number is not tagged for recall? (I'm assuming as long as its still under warranty and if you're having problems replacement (outside of recall) would still happen."
The warranty should cover problems within the warranty period, whatever the cause. If the VIN is not tagged for recall, a modification may have been made already to address the issue in the April 2004 oil jet recall.
" Are the recalled transmissions coming out of one particular assembly plant? (I understand its a design not a manufacturing defect but perhaps one plant got more than its share of the defective ones!)"
All Odysseys of any year where I have seen the window sticker have transmissions made in Japan. Most 2004 Odysseys are assembled in Alabama.
" If you had the "lubrication" kit installed on a brand new motor before much driving do you think it would help eliminate future tranny problems? "
The lubrication kit or oil jet is on the transmission. No, I do not think the lube kit will eliminate transmission problems in general. Just the 2nd gear overheat problem.
"Do you think that the Ody transmission recall is widespread enough that dealers should know that '04 models are under recall? (My dealer said they weren't aware of an '04 recall!) "
Yes.
"And finally do you think most dealers are aware of the fact that its a federal offense to sell a vehicle that is under a recall to a customer without either advance notification or repair of said recall? "
Do not count on it.
Dealers want to sell. Dealers know what makes a sale.
I wish you luck and a reliable vehicle.
Here is a link to the oil jet recall service bulletin.
http://www.smokinsales.com/HApdfs/a04-021.pdfhttp/www.smokinsales.com/HApdfs/a04-021.pdf
http://www.smokinsales.com/HApdfs/a04-021.pdf
Actually, I'm about as opposite of your stereotype as I could possibly be....sorry to disappoint.
Buyers - Get all the raw data and info you can and make your best decision. Don't use opinions or predictions - especially from car salesmen or dealers. Many tend to be tainted.
The majority of owners won't have problems.
I'm just glad Honda has taken a pro-active approach to insure the affected cars will be minimal.
They could have simply done nothing and just replaced the transmissions with problems instead of bring the affected cars in for the update that will correct the problem from happening in the future.
My wife's Ody goes in for the recall tomorrow a.m.
I'm anxious to see if (hoping) it doesn't need anything other than the lube jet. (Most of my big prblms have occurred when the svc dept worked on the vehicle.)
Does anyone have any positive or negative experience with trannys following the replacment on 02 - 04? Also, any experience with the 'lifetime warranty' after the recall?
Not necessarily true. Federal recalls are issued for safety or emission related causes. The NHTSA website provides a section which outlines recall procedures. Among the mentioned areas would be steering or suspension failures, fuel system or electrical system faults that could lead to a fire hazard, seats, seat tracks or restraint system failures and so forth. Ford with the Windstar had an ongoing problem with the transmission. The 1995 model year especially was noted for transmission failures. If you review the recalls for that model year, none of them are related to either the transmission or the head gasket as neither was considered safety related.
Honda is being very proactive in admitting the problem with their transmissions and trying to correct them, Federal law would not require it.
Stoopid1
Just wanted to quickly touch base back with you -- How's your wife's tranny after the "fix"? Thanks!
Stoopid1
Host
Stoopid1
Steve, Host
Still, when I hear a story like this one a nagging thought enters my cynical mind.
Maybe it's a disgruntled ex-employee or someone who sells for the competition.
Who knows?
I guess I did share my thoughts after all.
Just odd, since the overwhelming majority had no troubles at all, wouldn't you think?
It's time for Honda to give a little of their high profits back in this case.
I almost bought one of these vans in 02, everyday I thank my lucky stars that I didn't.
Good luck and don't let them wear you down.