BMW European Delivery

blueguydotcom

If you are not paying the security deposit up front (on an expensive car like a 650i pay the deposit as it will be FAR cheaper than the extra 0.00015 rider over 36 months).

His base rate of 285 must be based off last month (March). If you're not picking up for a few months then you have at least May's rates to lock in. Odds are good that May will be more attractive as BMW will probably be looking to push product as the model year winds down.

Tell him you want to know exactly how many MF points he's marking over the base rate (seems to be 2 points which is decent). Finally, BMW does push all ED MFs up by 0.0003 not5 0.000315.

Additionally, I'd pay the security deposit instead of adding it to the MF if you are in fact doing that.

Essentially, get him to put in writing that you will get the best MF plus his 2 point bump and the 3 point ED bump.

aae

I actually ran the numbers for multiple security deposits. Of course, it all depends on what you use for the opportunity cost of capital on the funds tied up in the security deposit for 36 months. for me, its almost a wash.

The more interesting benefit for doing security deposits might be that you would get the full security deposit back if the car gets totaled or is stolen. For example, if you were to put a total of $10K towards cap reduction and drive-of and the car is a total loss due theft or damage, you would be out whatever amount you applied towards cap reduction. Gap insurance does not cover this, according to my dealer. However, if you take the cap reduction funds and instead apply them towards security deposits, you can get your payments close (although slightly higher with my numbers) to the payments with cap reduction while eliminating the risk of losing what you put towards cap reduction in the event of the car being stolen or damaged beyond repair.

cdnpinhead

Thanks Blue, and to kydfx as well, for the post prior to yours.

All this stuff helps. Who knew I would ever consider leasing a car? Now, picking up a car in Germany -- that's something that's made sense to me since I first drove there in 2001.

blueguydotcom

The thing is, it's not much capital. We're not talking 10k but more like 3-4-5k. Back in the days of 10 MSDs it made even more sense as BMW gave you 0.0001 per MSD. You could take a solid 0.001 off the car instead of only 0.00049.

kyfdx

..if you don't come out ahead... then you aren't doing the calculations correctly...

aae

It depends on your opportunity cost of money. Lets say you put $9K towards a security deposit. If you think you can make 20% on the 9K by investing it elsewhere, then putting the money into the security deposit to reduce your payments does not make sense.

If you would put the money in a checking account making 1% per year, then putting the funds towards security deposits is a better use of the funds. I am saying that for my opposrtunity cost of money, the reduced payments are roughly equal to what I would earn if I invested the security deposit funds elsewhere.

kyfdx

Sure... but, I don't know anyone that can earn 10% after-tax guaranteed, with little risk.

The going rate in my area for a 36-month FDIC-insured CD is a little under 5% APY.. and, that is pre-tax. For most people that is an effective return of 3.5% after-tax.

Unless one stays 100% invested in stocks/bonds, most buyers in this price range have $3000-$6000 in money markets or CDs that could be put to better use as MSDs..

regards,
kyfdx

be325

We are 'toying' with the idea of taking a tour to Europe in May of 2007. We are in the very early stage and didn't contact BMW dealer,yet. Please, share some of your experiences (1)at the local dealer, (2)picking up the car in Munich, (3)dropping off and picking the car again at the BMW dealer.
These are my questions: Was it worth the hassle? Did you save as much as the brochure said you would ($2,270 on 328i)? Last time I drove in Germany and France was in 1983. Are these prices (ED prices)negotiable or set in stone? Lufthansa offers second ticket free. Would you do it again? ..... this is almost as long as the Consumer Reports survey!
Thanks in advance for any thoughts

blueguydotcom

Was it worth the hassle?

Yes. It's not a hassle at all. It's a great experience. Where else will you be able to do 140 mph with your BMW?

Did you save as much as the brochure said you would ($2,270 on 328i)?

Never use BMW's MSRP pricing. A 328i via ED should be about 5k less than MSRP. Go to bimmerfest.com's european delivery forum for the latest info.

Last time I drove in Germany and France was in 1983. Are these prices (ED prices)negotiable or set in stone?

Totally negotiable. There is an ED wholesale price that you negotiate from. $800-1200 over ED invoice pricing is common. Paying the listed BMW ED MSRP is extremely expensive and unneeded. You're basically stuffing mad cash into a dealer's pockets for doing nothing.

Lufthansa offers second ticket free.

Yes, they do. Lufthansa is hell on earth but if two of you are going, it's the way to do it.

Would you do it again? ..... this is almost as long as the Consumer Reports survey!

In a second. If I opt for a 335i in 2009/2010, I'd definitely go ED as the savings are insane. I thoroughly enjoyed my ED trip with my 2006 330i (MSRP of over 41k, I paid 35.7k for that car). If the M3 sedan exists, I may not bother as there's no ED discount on M3s.

It's a great experience.

jlnyberg

I just purchased and picked up a 328xi in Munich on March 19. I saved about $5,000 (I'm in the Seattle, WA area) and had an AWESOME experience. I had a nav system in mine which is key in getting around (if you don't have one in yours bring a portable one with you). Because of the break in period of 1,200 miles I couldn't take the car over the recommended 3500 rpm but it still allowed me to drive 115 mph. I went all over Germany (Baden-Baden, Trier, Cochem, Stuttgart, etc.) It even snowed while I was there and the car handled great. You can even go and drive your car on the Nurburgring. It will be the only opportunity you will have to ever see how your car can truly perform. I dropped off in Sindelfingen - easy easy easy. I would not consider it a hassle at all. If you are interested in seeing the museum it's under renovation so what they have on display is limited but not that far from the pickup. I think it's supposed to reopen in 2008. The pickup is great but it can be a wait in busy season (I had to wait about 45 minutes and this was the low season) before I could get to my car so plan ahead. I agree that Lufthansa is not the greatest airline but it was cheap to fly. I knew people in Germany so I travelled alone and met up with my friends there. It was worth the entire experience and when I buy my next one I'll do it again. Germany is fun to see, clean, and while the people may seem stoic they are actually very friendly even if you don't speak German. Just find the right deal for you and GO!

be325

Thanks to ALL for sharing. It helps a lot! and.... it is very reasuring to learn from others about the process. I'm copying all responses to my :\BMW-europe.doc So far, all responses are positive and all my questions have been answered.
Thanks again.

dino001

Yes, they do. Lufthansa is hell on earth but if two of you are going, it's the way to do it.


I think Lufthansa is OK, but their second free ticket offer is not worth a lot, cause it's based on full fare, not discounted, IIRC.

blueguydotcom

Guess you don't mind sitting on straw-filled seats, getting 1 or 2 movies on a communal screen and receiving horrific food and nasty service. To each his own...

dino001

Other than movies, nothing of that sort on my flights. And I would take that screen for that f... electronic box they put under the seat in the newest Delta's 777, so I could not stretch my legs there. Well, I fly coach, as you might have guessed already - give any European airline on transatlantic segments over American (not only AA, all of them).

First/business class - I don't know. On the ground - Americans beat Europeans hands down (European airports are just awful in their design and function), but in the air the coach is virtually always the other way around.

be325

I heard that you have to have the deal closed and all paperwork completed 3 months before the delivery/pickup. How soon you guys made travel arrangements? Air tickets could be very expensive if you book your flight only 3 months in advance. How BMW-ED assists in handling things with Lufthansa? I realize that I have more than 12 months of planning (May 2008 .... not as I indicated in my initial post May 2007), but I would like to be well-prepared and well-informed when we show up at the local BMW dealer.
Again,thanks for sharing .....good and bad experiences.

blueguydotcom

I heard that you have to have the deal closed and all paperwork completed 3 months before the delivery/pickup.

No. you pick out your car, arrange pricing and settle on a delivery pickup date that far out.

How soon you guys made travel arrangements? Air tickets could be very expensive if you book your flight only 3 months in advance.

Most people buy the tickets with less time than that.

How BMW-ED assists in handling things with Lufthansa?

They don't. It's not their responsibility to get you to Germany. They sell you the car, you handle all your personal travel arrangements. If you use the 2 for 1 deal, you simply call Lufthansa and tell them.

I would like to be well-prepared and well-informed when we show up at the local BMW dealer.

Don't even set foot on a lot until after you have arranged the pricing, etc of the car. There is zero need to go down to the dealership in person until the deal's small points are figured out.

hgeyer

I'd check with a local dealer to make sure delivery dates are available in May. I tried to do this last fall with 45 days advance notice and found out that 60 days out was the closest available date.

This would put you into June, when the summer travel season kicks in and travel is more congested/expensive. With summer travel to Germany, you'll also learn a new word, "Stau" - inhibiting the 100+mph experience.

vnrajan

I am doing an European Delivery in July. I have been trying to find out through my dealer the exact time I need to be at the pickup center. I understand that during busy times there can be a wait. But, I wanted to find out if BMW gives you a specific time when you need to be there. Or, is it better to show up early in the morning and avoid the waiting. Thanks in advance.

blueguydotcom

Arrive early and wait.

circlew

Here is a great article on-topic that has some good info.

link title

Regards,
OW

didihala11

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am thinking of doing the same. I have been reading some of the messages here and kinda got confused. Can you please answer my questions when you get a chance? If you don't mind, please send your answers to my email address "didihala@cox.net", thanks in advcance.

1) Some people here refer to Europian Delivery (ED) Invoice price. Is that the same as the Dealer's invoice price that you see on Edmunds, KBB, etc., website, or is it some thing different? And if so, where can I get that number?

2) BMW's website shows the $ amount that is deducted (you save) from the total price when you use ED option to buy your car. Do you deduct this from the MSRP? And if so, is that MSRP with options or without options?

Any information on how to come up with the total price if you go the ED option would be appreciated. Thx again.

blueguydotcom

1) Some people here refer to Europian Delivery (ED) Invoice price. Is that the same as the Dealer's invoice price that you see on Edmunds, KBB, etc., website, or is it some thing different? And if so, where can I get that number?

3 series pricing for ED is here:

http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=99

ED pricing is about 13-15% off MSRP (a big jump from Dealer Invoice pricing which is about 5-7% lower than MSRP).

2) BMW's website shows the $ amount that is deducted (you save) from the total price when you use ED option to buy your car. Do you deduct this from the MSRP? And if so, is that MSRP with options or without options?

Ignore BMW's website regarding ED. Like MSRP on the site, BMW's website is worthless.

Try this Wiki on ED:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php?title=BMW_European_Delivery

****Do not bother going to a dealer until you are totally familiar with ED. Dealers will try to rake you over the coals otherwise.*****

didihala11

Thanks for the quick reply. I searched both links and cannot find 2008 ED invoices for 5 series (535i in my case).

If you know of any other places I can look into I'll greatly appreciate it. Thanks again.

blueguydotcom

Pretty easy to find at Bimmerfest:

http://jon.bimmerfest.com/bulletins/08_E60_pricing.pdf

Base ED price for a 535i is 42,265. Add on shipping charges of 795 (paid on all BMWs) and tack on dealer profit of $1000 for a total of $44,060. If you were a BMWCCA member you could then get a $1000 rebate. Otherwise, $44,060 is about your base price.

Anyway, base US MSRP on that car is $50,195. Already you're saving 12%. Start adding options (at invoice prices) and watch your savings grow.

didihala11

Thank you very much, that's what I was looking for.

irvrobinson

or you can go to www.edBMW.com and get more information as well, all in the same place.

The www.edbmw.com/blog has also some great stories from people that have done european deliveries and also some good tips.

blueguydotcom

This is YOUR sales tool and it doesn't show ED invoice pricing. Essentially, you're spamming.

irvrobinson

no need for personal attacks, I wasn't selling anything, I was just giving out my website name that has all the information as well. There other websites out there, so people should know their options. Obviously, it is pretty useful since Wall Street Journal mentioned it in their article, and if you want invoice prices, here they are:

http://www.edbmw.com/forums/index.php?topic=118.0

for the 3-series for example

blueguydotcom

Just pointing out that the order info lists your name. That seems like spamming to me.

irvrobinson

It's ok, I'm not going to argue here, I was just trying to help the community with some information, I wasn't soliciting business at all. I see that you're a member on bimmerfest and e90post, then you should know my reputation.

Sorry about the links again, if you think they're useless, ask the moderator to remove them.

Take care

blueguydotcom

It's fine, man. I'm a member on e90? Huh. I'm on Bimmerfest though.

Anyway, sorry for jumping on you. Just felt like solicitation.

ajscratch71

I just wanted to post a message of thanks to Edmunds.com and the knowledgeable users of this forum and other 3-Series forums.
Specifically, kyfdx, car_man, shipo and blueguydotcom. To all others that I missed I extend my gratitude also.

I have been a fan of BMW since I was a kid but have never owned one(and still don't) but that dream of owning one could soon be coming to fruition. I was resigned to purchasing a '07 G35S or TL-Type S UNTIL I started reading these forums. I had read about some great lease deals people were getting when purchasing their respective BMW's and thought that that was the most logical choice(it still may be) in which to obtain mine. However, I'm a bit hesitant to lease because my current car has 210K miles and it won't last forever. So, I clicked on the "BMW ED forum" and started reading amazing tales of $800-1500 over ED invoice. I visited Bimmerfest this past Monday for the first time and got the "confidential" ED invoice price list. Based on this, I have priced a 335i sedan with Sport, Premium, Steptronic, Htd. Seats, Comfort Access, Sirius and Met. Paint for $40670 including destination. 1) Are there any other charges that should be included? 2)Should I go ahead and add the USB now or do it at the dealership? 3)What is considered "off-season" for tourists in Europe? I don't want to go when it's crowded. 4)Has anyone driven from Munich to Stuttgart? If so, can you give a mileage approximation? OR, is it more scenic to head towards Salzburg, Austria? I just want to get the car on the Autobahn, drive it a bit, drop off for shipping and head back to the States.

I sent an email to a dealer outlining vehicle specifics and what I would offer over ED invoice pricing. I mentioned 700-1700 over but he came back and stated that they only work off MSRP. I told him "no thanks" and will continue looking, thanks to you guys. I only gave this dealer a chance because I had made an inquiry about a used 335 but it didn't have Comfort Access, which is a requirement for me. My bro has an '06 325 with that feature and it's awesome. Anyway, thanks for any further help that can be provided.

blueguydotcom

Aj,

Consider buying through one of the guys on bimmerfest (or maybe even irv) if any are close to you.

Anyway, best time to go - fall or early spring. Germany's summer is busy and winter can be a bit treacherous if you're not used to driving in snow. Heck I was there in April and it was still snowing.

Get all the features you want from the factory - remember you're using the ed invoice pricing, not the customer msrp for options too. So when you buy via ED you're saving more money on even the little USB hookup.

Did you include the normal shipping charge?

Offer a number when you contact them. Breakdown the cost of the vehicle, cost of features, and your profit for them. Don't give them a range as they'll pick the top. $1000 is fair considering they're doing nothing but placing an order for you.

ajscratch71

Consider buying through one of the guys on bimmerfest (or maybe even irv) if any are close to you.

I don't mind traveling to get the car that I want. The dealer I referred to was in RI and I live in NC. I'll check with the dealers on Bimmerfest.

Did you include the normal shipping charge?

If this is the $695 destination charge then it was included in the price. If not, then it wasn't included. How do I figure this amount?

Offer a number when you contact them. Breakdown the cost of the vehicle, cost of features, and your profit for them. Don't give them a range as they'll pick the top. $1000 is fair considering they're doing nothing but placing an order for you.

Thanks a bunch! I will do just that...

What are the "break-in" requirements on new BMW's?

shipo

You might want to consider Passport BMW outside of DC, I hear they are very ED friendly.

Regarding break-in requirements. IIRC, you keep the RPMs below ~4,500, the speed below 100 mph and vary the engine speed for the first 1,200 miles. I drove the 530i from Munich down to Austria, through Switzerland, into France and over to Paris to visit friends. On the return leg I stopped at the Belleau Wood battlefield and the Aisne-Marne Cemetery (I'm a former Marine) to pay my respects, and then on through Luxembourg and into Germany. Shortly after getting back into Germany the magic 1,200 miles showed up and away we went.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom

Shipping charges are higher now - I think 765 or 795. Also the prices bumped a bit around April. So you may be off by maybe 200-300 dollars.

Shipo hit you with the other answers.

ajscratch71

I'll add Passport BMW to the list that I compiled from Bimmerfest.

Thanks again for all of the great info. I will keep you guys posted.

ajscratch71

Have any of you exceeded the recommended break-in rules while in Europe or before the 1200 miles were up? Were there any future complications? Let's say I wanted to "push" the car to 130-150mph just ONCE while on ED
...am I going to hurt the engine?? I'll still adhere to the rules mentioned earlier, PROMISE .

blueguydotcom

won't make any real difference IMHO. My 06 330i ran fit as a fiddle. During my drive from Munich to Nice I varied my speed from 50s (backroads) up to 130 mph. On my way back from Avignon I hit well over 140 mph for an extended period.

circlew

Blue, you are the first I heard at those speeds with the dreaded RFT's. I know you changed them back in the states but how did they perform during ED?

Regards,
OW

ajscratch71

Cool!!

I read Irv's ED experience and was amused at the "pecking order" for various car makes on the autobahn.

blueguydotcom

They were fine but remember that the Autbahn, Autostrada and French Toll Roads are all in exceptional shape. Those roads are as smooth as you can find on the best freeways in the USA. On the cruddy city streets of Europe, the RFTs were jarring and disturbing; as they were here on most roads.

irvrobinson

There are far better ED experiences than mine I read some really interesting ones and with amazing pictures. Next time I'm going, I'm planning on getting a SLR camera. If I'm allowed to post a link here, I would should you some of the best pictures I've seen from an ED.

shipo

I have hundreds of photos of my ED trip, however, I think the following one is kind of cool. Why? It was a random shot that Mrs. Shipo took of me in the woods above the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery where we stopped to pay our respects to the Marines and other U.S. Soldiers that fell during the Battle of Belleau Wood.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1240/968155583_b02a8196ee_o.jpg

As a former Marine, I remember that during our indoctrination we learned about Belleau Wood, and so when I got back home I was inspired to dust off my long dormant knowledge of that battle. Needless to say, off to the internet I went, and that's where I stumbled across the following picture taken during the battle back in 1918.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1308/968155573_a7f7dd0bfb_o.jpg

According to my notes, this structure served as the 3rd Battalion HQ during the most intense fighting.

Best Regards,
Shipo

irvrobinson

shipo, here are some amazing pictures taken in Europe. I hosted a contest for the Best BMW European Delivery story and the stories and the photos were just amazing.

There are too many to post, so if you wanna see more you can go here: BMW European Delivery

aatherton

That article had a funny part. It said "BMW will open a new facility to handle overseas deliveries in Welt, Germany."

The facility is called BMW Welt (BMW World) and replaced the old delivery center in Munich.

nkeen

Have any of you exceeded the recommended break-in rules while in Europe or before the 1200 miles were up? Were there any future complications? Let's say I wanted to "push" the car to 130-150mph just ONCE while on ED
...am I going to hurt the engine?? I'll still adhere to the rules mentioned earlier, PROMISE .

OK on the autobahn, if you want to expressly go against manufacturer's recommendations, but France has a 130 kph limit on the autoroutes, numerous speed cameras and on the spot fines. If you were running in the 220 kph range in a 130, I expect that you might spend the balance of your trip in accommodations other than those you originally envisaged. We recently spent 2 weeks in NW France. Except for the few miles outside Paris where I saw a couple of gross offenders, I was struck by how compliant the French have become with regard to speed laws. Massive fines and camera enforcement make a difference (cameras are signed and marked, but you have to stay on your toes). Driving on the whole there is good -- lane discipline (drive right, pass left) everywhere, and none of the full size pick up/SUV bullying and aggression you see around here. The only really insane thing I've seen recently was on a mountain road last year near St Tropez where a BMW Z8 with wide open exhaust passed a truck with about 50 yds visibility ahead (never heard a V8 like that before or since).

blueguydotcom

I sped like crazy through France. Mostly on the toll roads. Of course, I had German plates. Not a ticket. Ditto the Autostrada in Italy.

jaspk

You were damn lucky. I would not recommend that to anyone - German plates, or not. Try that in the Netherlands and you risk having your car confiscated - for good!

blueguydotcom

I don't think I was lucky. From what I've read on ED boards, the plates are temps and thus it's tough for anyone to prove who was driving at that time.

My average speed during my trip was in excess of 100.