2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

04pilot

FYI -

 

Here's a recent email I received:

 

BMW of Fremont

 

I have received your email regarding a 2005 BMW 330I I have a full inventory of 2005 units in stock.

 

The pricing structure for the car is

$325.00 over factory invoice

Free Set of Floor Mats

Full tank of gas.

 

This is an INTERNET end of the year offer that is available by appointment only with me.

 

This offer expires 12/31/2004

 

paule

That's a smoking deal!

I'm guessing you would have to take a unit in stock but that would be well worth it.

By the way, a set of floor mats should be valued at about $100 (you can get them on the internet for that price with shipping).

I'd be interest to know if anyone on the board takes them up on the offer and see how the deal goes down (i.e. if they tack on a doc fee).

 

jh: glad we could help.

thumper1221

Hey shaymasdaddy...

 

Did you get a quote from Autobahn in Fort Worth? Many on this board have attained good pricing from Autobahn. I believe you should be able get at least $2,000 off MSRP...if not a little more.

kyfdx

$800-$1200 over invoice should be achievable before the end of the year...

 

However, that doesn't mean that the one specific dealer that you want to buy from will do it..

 

Sometimes, you just have to say.... "This is what I will pay for this particular car.. take it or leave it" (nicely, of course).

 

But, if they leave it... you have to be prepared to go somewhere else.. You won't have any credibility in negotiations with that dealer, any longer...

 

regards,

kyfdx

pingmyday7

Need a little help here...

This is my first BMW experience and I have been quite impressed with the knowledge I have seen here on this board.

 

Here is the deal I am looking at: New 2004 325i with Auto, Met Paint, Leather, BMW Assist, Heated seats, etc.

 

The sticker is $36,000 and have negociated them down to $32,000 @ 1.9% based on my credit. Please let me know your thoughts...

Pingmyday7

stan_g

Sounds great! Can you give me the name of the person you spoke with? e-mail: (drop the * front and back) *srg111mail-bmwforum@yahoo.com*

maxcat2

I have been reading this forum for approximately 2 months and have not seen any discussions of purchasing a car online through a buying service or through Costco, etc. Any comments on the pros/cons of this type of purchasing would be appreciated. My thanks for the information I have taken from this forum to date and my apologies if this is not the correct forum.

shaymasdaddy

thumper1221.....thanks for the tip....Autobahn offered me $2500 off MSRP on the 2005 325i I was looking for. The car is in transit and will arrive here in mid January.

 

Thank God for forums like this!!!

paule

Man, I just don't know how they do it. Those boys have gotta be close to losing money with those prices.

 

How about some details. Options ordered, MSRP, final price, lease or buy, any doc fees added, etc.

 

Thanks and nice job!

thumper1221

shaymasdaddy...

 

No need to thank me...someone else suggested Autobahn and I just passed the information alog to you.

 

I have a question...did Autobahn tack-on MACO and the Training Fee after the $2,500 off MSRP or was it included in the $2,500 off?

kyfdx

Basically, you are just introducing a middle-man to the equation, that has to be paid also.. Usually, you can get the same deal on your own, just by expanding your prospective search area...

 

For those that hate negotiation, or feel at a disadvantage in those situations, some of these services can help...

kyfdx

This is a pretty good deal on an '04.. It leaves the dealer about $500 profit, and the 1.9% is a big bonus.... that is worth about $2400 over a 60 month loan, compared to 4.9%..

 

That is probably a good $3500-$4000 less than what you would pay for similar new '05, taking into account the financing..

 

regards,

kyfdx

shaymasdaddy

As far as I know they did not but the bad news is that I had to cancel the deal. I got the price I wanted but within BMW's lease calculation I found hidden charge of approx $1200 which I don't understand at this point. See below the lease calc I used from edmunds.com:

 

MSRP: $32,565 includes power seats, auto, and CD changer

Agreed to Offer: $30,460

Residual: 63% or $20,515.95

Money Factor: .00120 or 2.88%

Acquisition Fee: $725 (rolled into the price of the car)

Tax Rate: 6.25%

  

32,565 * .63 = 20,515.95

  

(30,460 + 725) - 20,515.95 = 10,669.05

  

10,669.05/36 = $296.36 = Depreciation Fee

  

(30,460 + 725 + 20,515.95) * .00120 = $62.04 = Lease Fee

  

296.36 + 62.04 = $358.40 = Monthly Payment w/o tax

  

358.40 * .0625 = $22.40 = Usage Tax

  

358.4 + 22.40 = $380.80 = Monthly Lease Payment including tax

 

In comparison, BMW said my lease payment would be $418.66/month based on the same lease factors above. I used other lease calculators and they confirmed that $380.80 is correct based on 1st payment, a $300 deposit, and license/fees due at signing.

 

Autobahn is in the process of sending me an explanation of the $1200 charge(s) so I'll share them with you once I receive it.

 

$38 buck a month may not seem much but it is the principal in knowing how your money is being spent

kyfdx

These guys aren't doing you any favors... the only positive aspect of this lease is the agreed upon purchase price..

 

1) I'll assume your tax calculation is correct.. this depends on your state.. If your way of calculating is incorrect, that could account for the discrepancy (not likely).

 

2) The base money factor is .0008, so they are marking it up the maximum BMWFS allows. That is an extra $20/mo. on your payment

 

3) The base acquisition fee is $525 (this will change to $625 next month), so they are also marking that up the maximum allowable $200.

 

4) $38/mo. is HUGE... You were right to back out...

 

Now that I look back at your post... I'm thinking that CD changer could be part of the problem... They probably can't residualize it, since it is dealer installed... So, that might change your residual.. The residual is figured on the bottom figure on the official Monroney sticker from BMWNA... including destination, but not including any dealer add-ons..

 

So, that could be part of the problem..

 

regards,

kyfdx

sarae

I am looking to lease an 05 325i here in Austin. They have a lease special going for $299 with a ton of $ down. I told the guy I could put $1k down and he said it would be $440 a month. My credit is not good and he called me this morning and said I would need to put about another 3k down or get a cosigner. Does anyone know if this is right? I am new to the whole car leasing thing.

kyfdx

Leasing is usually only advantageous to those with good credit...

 

If you are credit-challenged, then you probably won't find any good lease deals...

 

You might try a different dealer.. at least that way, you'll know if the first one was being honest with you...

paule

Thanks for providing us with that info. All of a sudden it appears that Autobahn isn't losing as much money as we've been lead to believe.

 

I'm dying to know what their explanation will be for the hidden $1,200.

thumper1221

I have been haggling and haggling with Advantage BMW here in Houston. The car has the following:

 

Orient Blue (Metallic Paint)

Natural Brown Leather

Auto Transmission

Premium Package

Xenon Headlamps

Total MSRP = $36,195

 

Here is their final deal:

Invoice = $33,210

Deal Profit = $550

MACO, Training Fees = $550

T,T,L = $2,440

Total Driveout = $36,750

 

Should I take it or leave it? I am wondering how bad Autobahn will be able to beat this deal. My hang-up is that Advantage is less than a mile away from my house.

 

Please comment.

paule

Thumper,

I'd love to see you get a hard, firm quote from Autobahn so we can finally get a feel for whether they throw in a hidden charge right before they hand over the keys.

 

Having said that, you're kind of in a tough position. Any feel for whether you'll have any issues with service if you bought somewhere else?

 

I would think it would be worth $500 to me to have my hometown dealer get my money. Over $500 difference, well..........

shainemo

2005 325ci/5 speed/ jet black on black leatherette/ heated seats

 

MSRP-$32,895

Sale Price- $30,895

 

Residual= 61%

MF= 1.15

Tax= 3%

 

10K/36 months= $399/month with 1st month, $500 deposit, TTL, etc

 

Im going to sleep on this one.

 

What do you all think of the deal?

 

BTW- dealer fully covered trade in of '02 325i. I wanted to see if I could rid of this car and into an '05 because I am dreading the '06+ 3 series. From the looks of it, they ruined a great car.

shaymasdaddy

Thanks for the support. BTW, the CD changer is actually $695 and BMW residualizes $300 of it. The $32565 is the residualized MRSP...the actual MSRP is $32960. My lease calculation reflects the $32565.

 

The good thing is I'm not in a hurry. My '96 Acura Integra has been paid off for two years and runs great. I'm just ready for a change but not at the expense of making a bad decision.

 

Thanks.

dl7265

Unless somethings changed, leasing in TX is a tax problem and there for they usually offer whats a ballon payment in lieu.I belive thats why the national program rates are allways higher here.

 

If the law changed and i missed it, please disregard this post.

 

DL

kyfdx

That looks like a pretty good deal.. Did you get the invoice price off of Edmunds or KBB? If so, they have the training fees already included... At worst, you are only $1100 over invoice including all fees, assuming that the TTL is accurate.. About $2K off MSRP..

 

Very reasonable.. you can beat it to death, you know... lol

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

Yeah.. using your numbers, I came up with the same numbers you did.... The only variance could be the tax calculation..

 

But, as I noted, they were jacking up every number to the maximum BMW allows, so the low price was just a teaser to make an extra $900 on the financing.... and who knows where the extra $38/mo was coming from..

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

This payment seems a little high.. I can only come up with $380 + tax, and that is with rolling in a bumped up acquisition fee of $725...

 

Also, unless you are waiving the security deposit, the base money factor is .0010, not .00115

 

Seems like there might be about $25/mo. you could take out of this deal..

 

regards,

kyfdx

jpl

Hi: Looking at 2 cars, msrp. is $43,600, for one, $43,200 on other, how much should these drop, they are now officially one year old, & the new design comes out in 6 months or so. Want to lease, but do not want to over pay on base price, after all, if car was sold the next day, I would get $34-35??? Happy-New-Year to ALL.

 

                             Thanks, jpl

straz

Your $1200 under invoice and the 1.9 is outstanding. Same as the deal I got in October with the $1500 marketing support. Your "true cost to own" will always be ahead, good luck.

dexter9999

2005 325i

Auto, metallic paint and heated seats (that's it)

15k/36 months

$1,000 cap cost reduction

$1,719 Acquisition Fee ($695), 1st month,etc.

$2,719 as signing

Gross Cap = 30,946.58

Res. value = 19,347

$333.86/month

 

Got the car on Monday the 27th and love it.

I think I got a great deal.. what do you guys think?

thumper1221

Well, the great deals at Autobahn in Fort Worth are for real. I am very pleased with my experience.

 

I completed my purchase of the 325i with Autobahn in Fort Worth on Friday 12/31. The internet sales manager was very professional and the deal took less than four minutes. I live in Houston and received quotes from all Houston dealers and the San Antonio dealer as well. I provided all the "drive-out" quotes to Autobahn and they beat the lowest quote by $500. I also asked for free floormats and a bottle of touch-up paint. He said no problem. He then faxed me the paperwork and everything totaled exactly $36,000...no fuzzy math or questionable fees. I signed, faxed, and received a fax-back with the production number we can now track on the BMW web-site. The car should be here in mid to late February.

 

The 325i sedan has the following options:

 

Orient Blue Metallic Paint

Natural Brown Leather

Premium Package

Auto

Xenon Headlamps

Total MSRP $36,195

 

Here is the pricing break-down.

 

Sell Price = $33,632.96

Sales Tax = $2,102.06

Inventory Tax = $89.43

License Fee = $70.80

Title Fee = $33.00

Inspection Fee = $21.75

Doc Fee = $50.00

Drive-out Price = $36,000.00

 

Thanks to everyone for the information shared on this forum.

bisedogg

The MSRP of the 2005 325i I am looking at is $32,765 (auto, power seats, heated seats, jet black, leatherette). According to Edmunds, the invoice is $30,090. Does anyone have any suggestions as to (i) what resonable offer I should make to this dealer in CT, and (ii) what is a reasonble offer to accept. I am not sure how much dealer profit would be acceptable. Also, has anyone had a particularly good experience in terms of getting a good deal with a dealer in the NYC metro area? Thanks in advance!

 

(Kyfdx, thanks for your advice in the lease forum.)

bb101

This is a great site, thanks to all who post such great info...I am currently trying to decide between a 2004 325i with low mileage or go with a new 2005.

 

I saw a 2004 325i CPO at a dealer with 9,500 miles with premium, auto, metallic, and leather for $31,900. I believe (when it was new) the MSRP was $35,095 and edmunds invoice $32,205.

 

Any thoughts on a reasonable price for this used one? Or given the 2005's will likely be heavily discounted in a few months, maybe it makes sense to wait and go for a 2005???

 

Thanks.

kyfdx

Keep in mind that the $31,900 is an "asking" price... Just recently, a poster on this forum bought a brand-new '04 for $4K off MSRP..

 

The added CPO warranty is worth something... but, I think $30K would be all the money on that unit, assuming it looks like new... and no body work.

 

Whether $3K-$4K savings is worth getting the used one over a brand-new '05 is a judgement you'll have to make for yourself.. The advantage of going with a new one, is you have a lot more to choose from and can get one almost exactly the way you want it.

 

regards,

kyfdx

paule

That's a smokin' deal!

 

I wonder if they're getting some sort of a quota kickback and that's why they do it on the 325i and not on the 330i.

 

Again, I bought an xi so it wouldn't have done me any good.

 

Nice job. I highly doubt you could have done better anywhere else.

 

Edit: One last question, any idea what MACO + TF was at Autobahn? I'm getting an invoice of $33,210 on your car so they must be getting some kickback somewhere or they have a zero MACO?

thumper1221

paule...

 

I started negotiating with dealers using invoice +profit +MACO +training fees...but I found this strategy very argumentative, frustrating, and time consuming. Based on the advice of this forum, I switched to "driveout". I found the dealers very receptive and I would usually get a quote very quickly and not waste valuable time. Also, there was obviously an immediate baseline of comparison between dealers.

 

I have no idea what Autobahn is doing for these fees. I assume they were included in the selling price.

lgtt

when is the cutoff date to order a 2005 325?

paule

That seems to be the best way of doing it. What you're really after is the out the door price anyway.

 

I was just curious if you knew what it was. I wanted to add it to the invoice price to see exactly what their margin was.

 

For some reason I just can't get over the fact that they're selling cars for what appears to be less than what they are paying for them.

 

One way you could tell is to see if they would fax you a copy of the invoice. After a little prying, I finally got a copy of the invoice from my dealer and it was clearly spelled out exactly what their particular MACO was.

 

They have to have some form of a quota bonus to be able to sell the cars that cheap. I can't believe that they can stay in business for long selling cars at a loss. Nice deal though. That's great for you!

maxcat2

I am familiar with most auto buying terms that I see but I am not familiar with MACO and Training Fees. I would appreciate it if someone could explain what these are and how much they cost. Also are these BMW specific and are they regional. I live in Central Florida.

paule

MACO is a regional advertising fee charged by BMWNA to the dealer on each car sold. It is listed on the invoice. The total was $460 in Phoenix where I bought my car. This is one of the higher regions as best I can tell. Breaking it out, my invoice lists MACO at $300 and "Training Service Fee" at $160. These fees show up on the "Wholesale" (read invoice) line but not on the MSRP line.

 

They vary from region to region. It appears as though some dealers don't pay any MACO fee. As I understand it, these are fees charged to the dealer to offset marketing, training, and advertising in their particular region.

 

MACO is BMW specific. I believe the Training Fees are also but I'm not sure on that.

kyfdx

Training fee..

 

This is a $160 fee that is on the invoice of every BMW... As far as I know.. it does not vary by region or model..

 

However, if you get your invoice price from Edmunds, Kbb, etc... or even from the official BMW pdf. file, it is already included in the base invoice price. The invoice the dealer has a base price of $160 less, then a separate line item for the $160 training fee...

 

So, any invoice price you see on-line likely has that fee included..

 

As discussed above, MACO is an advertising fee that varies regionally and by model.. But, that fee is also on the invoice from BMWNA, and is part of the dealer's cost.

 

 The thing to remember... These fees are all part of the dealer's cost, not yours.. Unless you negotiate $XXX over invoice, then these fees shouldn't be on any of your paperwork.. If you negotiate invoice plus.. then you can expect them to be brought up..

 

regards,

kyfdx

04pilot

FYI from BMW of Fremont

 

I have received your email regarding a 2005 BMW 330I. I have a full inventory of 2005 units in stock.

 

The pricing structure for the car is

 

$500.00 UNDER factory invoice

Free Set of Floor Mats

Full tank of gas.

paule

He came down from $325 over invoice. Must be getting a little desperate.......

 

Are you in the market?

04pilot

already got my 2005 330i in November for $500 over invoice with floor mats and gas.

paule

Still a very good deal.

 

I was $1,000 over invoice without mats (I'm still not happy about that one) on my 325xi.

kyfdx

paule..

 

that is still a very good deal.. The dealers that make those invoice deals are few and far between.. My local dealer would never touch anything close to $1000 over, unless it was a left-over unit from the year before...

paule

kyfdx,

That's very true. I'm pretty sure I got the best deal I was going to get at the time without having to travel 800-1000 miles.

 

It wasn't really the price I paid that I had issues with but more the whole floor mats issue and the way I was treated in general. I originally had contact with multiple dealers and as I remember it, I was verbally promised floor mats as part of the deal. But as I said, I was dealing with multiple price quotes and speaking with more than one dealer and it is possible that the floor mats came up with one of the other dealers and not the one I eventually bought from.

 

My car was also special ordered exactly like I wanted it and not out of dealer stock. I also ordered it in September which is not when you are going to get the best deals.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to lose any sleep over not getting the car for under invoice. I just wish the whole buying experience was more positive. I don't blame the dealership; just the particular salesperson I had the misfortune of getting.

 

I have absolutely no problem with the dealership making a profit. After all, that's what they're in business to do. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw on the salesman you get. I was actually told that he was "doing me a favor" by accepting the deal at $1,000 over invoice. For about 1 hours worth of work, that's quite the favor he was doing for me.

hotdosa

I am looking for my first BMW -- a 325i. Edmunds shows that there is 2500 marketing support to dealers for the 3 series right now. Can I work this into my price negotiations?

 

Also, is this a good time to go for the 325? Will prices get lower as we come closer to the 2006s hitting the market?

 

Thanks!

kyfdx

Wow.. I see that.. first I've heard of it... This is the last month for current model 325i production...

 

I would think selection will get pretty slim before they add more incentives..

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

It looks like the dealer cash incentives have replaced the high residuals and low money factors...

 

Good news for those of you buying... If you were leasing, it is pretty close to a wash.. Maybe, a little more expensive this month..

 

regards,

kyfdx

 

EDIT: this only applies to RWD 3-series sedans..

 

Actually, upon further review.. Monthly lease payments will probably be about 10% higher than last month... Of course, buying will be $2500 cheaper..;-)

dl7265

Theres $3800.00 on a RWD 330I !!!!

 

DL

caidw

This month, BMW to dealer incentive for 325 is $2500; for 330 is $3800! If you like this model, it is good time to buy. New 2006 car is cooming soon.

 

Cai