They said it was a credible alternative but didn't go so far as to say it would steal sales from the Accord and Camry. I think it will give more competition to the Altima and 6. Most people who are going to buy an Accord or Camry are going to buy an Accord or Camry. 6 and Altima owners might be more easily swayed.
I checked out G6. In typical GM form, looks excellent in person. Nice styling. This car will do well for one year because it is a new model. Then the General Motors lack of true quality will catch up. The same thing happened with the new Grand Prix. GM cars generally do not hold up well over time and they seem to prematurely become obsolete. The only exception is the Vette.
Oh yeah, buy a Acura TSX, get the better warranty, the free loaner car that you probably will not use and a car that will be worth something in 4 years. At about the same price.
GM does not get it, and they never will because the American public lets them get away with it.
A agree with bigdaddycoats, If you think GM does not get it you have been either A.) Hiding under a rock, B.) Too busy protesting our sovereign right for self defence or, C.) work for a foreign auto maker.
In the passed 5 Years, GM has slashed millions in warranty costs and looks at new ways to resolve the cost situation,
"GM had 12 top-three performing vehicles, including four that were ranked highest in their segments, and three GM assembly plants were named best in initial quality for North America, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Initial Quality StudySM." http://www.gmfleet.com/us/about/news/articles/053002.html
And is entering into new market segments with the Pontiac Solstice, fighting pound for pound with the Japanese (and America's manufacturing future) with cars like the Malibu, G6 and CTS, and has completely changed the way it does business with the development of the Cobalt... http://www.freep.com/money/business/walsh12_20031212.htm
I do not intend to sound angry or menacing, it just that blanket statements such as "GM does not get it, and they never will because the American public lets them get away with it." are just not true and have been as such for many years now.
The typical Oprah guest is probably in the 15% marginal tax bracket. So they'd owe more like $4,200 in federal income tax on a $28,000 vehicle, though they could probably challenge that value on their tax form by providing proof of real world sales showing its value at the true, discounted, rebate-laden price, and pay a little less. The complaining from them about having to pay tax on a windfall is typical of what I would expect from sheeple like that who would attend her show. "please, tell me how to live, Oprah". These people can't cope in life, that's why they adore her show. Why would you expect them to be able to handle the concept of paying taxes?
As for some of the blanket statements being made about GM and the G6 in particular. I would advise those people to educate themselves. IF the G6 turns out to be what is claimed, it is a new direction for GM and the car will NOT be like previous Pontiacs in terms of resale and quality.
I own a Saab 9-3, also based on the epsilon platform, and at 2 years and 37,000 miles it has been trouble free and a great performing car, within the limitations of its price range. But unlike the G6, which one will probably be able to drive off the lot for $25K or so, I had to pay $32,000 to get my epsilon platform car. So it's all relative....don't complain about the G6 and compare it to superior cars that cost $10 grand more.
I have owned 4 other GM products ('93 S-10, '95 Chevy C 1500, '01 Tahoe, and '03 Silverado) and not one of them ever had so much as a single trip to the repair shop, though I admit I didn't drive them out into extended old age. Conversely, my two BMW's and Dodge Ram were repeatedly breaking.
"If we don't change course and do North American vehicles that are equivalent to German vehicles or the best Japanese vehicles, we will be in the process of inevitable, continued decline," Lutz told reporters.
i can play this game too and post links all day long about how GM could "get it" just a little bit more. reliability is expected these days.
Ok Brucec35 you appear to be a very negative individual, maybe even a jealous individual. I was one of the 276 people who was given a Pontiac G6 at the Oprah show. I am very offended by your blanket statements about the character and stereotypes that you have given everyone who won a car that day. I understand that everyone has the right to free speech and that you are allowed to think whatever you want to think. But I thought that I would set you straight on a few things. First of all I am not sheepish nor is my girlfriend who went to the show with me. I am perfectly capable of coping with life. I also do understand the concept of paying taxes and I am not complaining about paying the taxes. From everything that I have read the only people who are complaining about having to pay the taxes is the press. I have not read one article that quotes an audience member complaining about paying the taxes. I am a very educated person with a college degree and so is my girlfriend who went with me. Also there was quite a few audience members there that day who were teachers. So, you see your stereotype of Oprah fans is way off!
Let's not turn this into some sort of political statement, nor a sociological study of some arbitrarily defined segment of society, nor a dissertation on GM as a manufacturer, okay?
We can share our views of and experiences with a G6, but the rest of that stuff isn't appropriate. There may be some discussions on our News & Views board where some of these comments would fit, but they don't belong here.
In the very Article you posted, was the following:
GM has already begun to change that, as witnessed in some of the aspirational new cars in its Cadillac lineup. Lutz says that transformation is set to continue across GM's Chevrolet, Buick and Pontiac brands, as the automaker pours more money into product development, quality and styling.
If your gonna post an article, at least make sure it makes your point. GM is really making huge strides in quality and product development, and if you can't see that, do not buy their product. In this market you can buy from another manufacturer, and still have a trouble free vehicle.
But to say that "GM cars generally do not hold up well over time and they seem to prematurely become obsolete." is really very childish and plain jane wrong. Many people here on the boards can attest to GM products being trouble-free or just plain dependable. Look at JD power too.
By the way, you didn't counter the facts that i posted, like
"GM had 12 top-three performing vehicles, including four that were ranked highest in their segments, and three GM assembly plants were named best in initial quality for North America, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Initial Quality StudySM." http://www.gmfleet.com/us/about/news/articles/053002.html
And unlike your posts, which have no proof backing up your hatred of a US automaker and employer, you just call my points obnoxious.
Look, lets go back to the G6 which is a really cool car, armed with a very dependable engine (on a diet, but we all know its the new version of the Star Studded 3800 V6) an amazing platform (I've driven the Saab 9-3 on the same arcitechure and let me tell you, it is the BMW 3 series/Cadillac CTS of FWD sedans IMHO).
The platform has not shown any troublesome quality faults that i read about so far, and the engine is one of the most dependable in the business. This car should, if bolted on right, have excellent quality.
TSX is a great value with the 6MT, but 93% of americans buy automatics and the V6 has a whole bunch more torque then the TSX's 4.
It would be nice to see a comparo of the sportier entries like the Altima, 6, Legacy, TSX and G6. Or maybe the Ford Fusion when that comes (6 based), since it's more likely to compete with Pontiac, if only for the domestic badging.
I expect the base G6 with the 3.5 will ride more like the 'Bu than the Saab.
For what it is worth, the 'Bu, save for the no feedback electric steering, is pretty decent for a fwd sedan.
I have a feeling the forthcoming GT sedan and coupe with the 6mt and the 3.9 will have a well tuned suspension as well. This is one Pontiac that may actually deliver excitement.
How much do you reckon GM will ask for the hard top convertible coupe? Think it will it go over 30K?
Was in for an oil change today and I saw the new G6. Impressive car, I like the looks better than my 04 GP. This car will sell very well I think. People are getting tired of Camrys and Accords. Even the Altima is looking dated. This is a fresh looking car and people will notice unlike with the Malibu.
I must relate to you my recent experience with my wonderful 1999 Grand Am GT1. For 5 1/2 years and 47,500 miles I had near maintenance free driving. Now in the matter of several weeks, the following repairs have been made: The A/C compressor failed, the input manifold gaskets failed and leaked coolant, the power steering pump made unusual noises and was replaced, the alternator failed and I lost all electrical power. This amounted to the cost of $2,500 to repair and restore my car to normal running condition. So, you may think GM has turned the corner but think again. They still produce cars whcih have a very weak time to failure factor. I was already to trade my GT1 in for the new G6 but that is now on indefinite hold.
Im sorry for your expirience in your Grand AM. I have never driven one, but sat in one and liked it. The point is, that you could have bought a toyota and had the same expirience. When quality improves, its just that, it improves. THere are still bad cars on the lot, any lot. Whenever you buy a car from any manufacturer its alwayse the luck of the draw. You could buy a lexus and the tranny will fail on thi first onramp, or get a kia and run 6 years no problem. The best way to avoid these problems entirely is to walk :P
Every time I buy I purchase a new car(every two years) I shop GM, Ford and the imports. I give GM a chance to win me over. And every time that I fall for GM's lower rebate-induced price I am burned with a car that has interior parts that fall off and excess visits to the shop. Plus, I get terrible depreciation to boot.
Honda, Mazda, Toyota etc have earned their reputation by building solid, dependable, quality cars. They may cost more per pound initially, but you get more automobile value in the short and long run.
I am not going to cite articles, JD Power surveys and the like. The articles cited by folks extolling the quality increases made by GM prove my point. GM still has a way to go.
In todays newspaper, 2 dealers in NJ were advertising G6's with about a $1500 discount, $1000 rebate and $500 "Oprah rebate".....msrp was in the $22000 range. This is an FYI.
Personally I think the Oprah show will hurt sales. People will remember the $28000 and think I can get a Lexus/Acura/Infinity for not much more. Why would I spend it on a Pontiac. This is a lot higher than the low $20's for a Camry or Accord. I realize that additional discounts/rebates will bring the purchase price down, but others may not.
Saw G6 at a Dealer here in NY, it stood right in between a 92/93 GP and a CTS. Well, right off the bat you can see they spent some money on this car, the headlights are bigger, and they really are jeweled. The older GP looked like it came from a Junkyard compared to the G6. The grill is not plastic, its galvanised steel. This is a very good thing since many GM's have plastic grills, yet nissans and infinitis have chrome. Here is one question i have for GM, if they going out on the limb here and spending extra money for a steel grille, why not give it a chome or polished finish? It would accentuate the headlamps and looks awsome in any color. The way it is now, unless you loked closely you would think the grille is plastic. Do GP's have plastic grilles? Anywhay the car looks good and by the roofline it seems you have good room in the back. Meybe ill go in for a test drive, but if i see a 30K sticker, i better hear two words, the first is 5000, the next begins with an "r"
i'll be checking out the local pontiac dealer later today in hopes of seeing the car in person.
exalteddragon1: since your reply was such a mis-representation of what i said i felt compelled to do a rebuttal in the News and Views/Return of GM's Might topic.
I have not been in a G6, but anyone reading could tell the following:
At the end of the review, they said: "regular fuel is specified". Regular fuel costs less than premium, and they did not mention that competitor cars like Altima require premium fuel. This is a big advantage for the G6. Also they did not mention as an advantage the good fuel economy of the g6 with respect to its competition...
they said... 22/32 for base and 21/29 for GT. well, for nissan its...
that, combined with using regular fuel, could save the g6 driver a good amount of money.
Also, they kept saying it was worse than the competition in certain aspects eluding to refinement, but never said just how or why. This is the most specific they got:
"The early production test car, for example, had dashboard and windshield pillar squeaks. Pontiac says it knows why and has changed the factory tooling to eliminate the problem. Right there is an argument for waiting to buy."
Why is this an argument, you just mentioned that GM changed the factory tooling to solve the problem, and you also mentioned these were early production cars!
wow, the author of the USA today review must think his readers are... well intellectually deficient
The MT review says that originally G6 was slated to receive the 2.8 DOHC from CTS. It won't because of two reasons: costs, and availability. GM makes just enough to supply CTS apparently. It'd cost more, but then you save by cutting back on incentives.
G6 really needs the CTS 3.6 DOHC to compete with Alima & Accord V6's. That engine's an option on the LaCrosse. GM thinks Buick owners are more rev happy than Pontiac?
THe G6 doesnt need the 3.6 to compete with anything. How many Lacrosse's do you think will be equipped with the 3.6 anyway? 90% of car buyers (especially women) dont know the difference between an OHV and OHV engine so it is foolish to suggest the G6 needs 24 valves to compete with the Accord or Altima. Most Japanese midsoze sedans arent even sold with V6s so its pointless to declare that the G6 needs a 240+hp OHC engine to win sales from the Accord and Altima.
Lets noto forget that many journalists and automotive experts like those posting on this forum panned the CTS, Malibu and Grand Prix but those cars are all doing well right now. In spite of all the negative comments and lukewarm press reviews regarding the G6 I predict it too will be a success. There's a reason why many of you are amatuer car experts on edmunds as opposed to highly paid automotive industry execs.
Many Buick owners wouldn't know the difference between OHV & DOHC. But Pontiac has aspirations of being performance brand. Believe it or not, I've heard Infiniti and BMW brandied about as what Pontiac should become, by GM itself no less. You think we ever going to see OHV in Infiniti or BMW car?
i finally saw the car in person. what can i say, typical GM interior with not so great exterior trim. no doubt people coming from grand ams will think they have died and gone to heaven but i have a hard time believing this car will steal any sales from the accord/altima crowd.
and the car i was checking out was $27k. i see $4/5k discounts coming soon. the USA review had it about right.
my next hope for a domestic car for me anyway will be the ford fusion.
I will grant that the CTS has been a marketplace success, but I can't agree that the Malibu and Grand Prix are doing well. These cars are mediocre looking inside and out (IMHO) and require $4,000 rebates and low financing to move them. GM will go broke if they are much more "successful."
I wanted to test a G6 before buying this fall, but I had to pull the trigger last week and got a Mazda 6. I remain interested in the G6 as I'll need a car for my kids in a few years and I'd love to be able to cash in my GM card savings on one.
V6's in G6, Malibu, 500 & Montego all have 200 hp. Coincidence? Hardly! It's because 4 years ago the V6's in Max/Accord/Camry all had 200 hp. But now all those guys except for Camry have 240-260. Four years from now, the cars that G6 & 500 will compete with will have 265-280.
Only a small fraction of Altima/Accord are powerful V6's, but they serve as halos for those models, reducing incentives & holding up resale value. Very few Camry owners care how much hp their engine makes. That doesn't stop Toyota from committing to keeping up with its rivals, which they came out and declared. It's all about the image, saying your technology can match anyone's.
Caddy is having a wonder renaissance only when it decides to go head to head with its main competitors technologically. It can happen at Buick or Pontiac or Ford but only if they decide to do the same thing.
i think the number of V6 accords is more than a small fraction if i was to go by what i see on the streets and the ratio on the dealer lot.
the 3.3L V6 is available on the Camry SE model and though it only has 225 hp it has a healthy 240 ft-lb of torque.
why doesn't GM offer both the 3.9L OHV and 3.6L OHC engines. those who prefer a OHC are happy and those who prefer a OHV are happy too.
well at least buick will offer the 3.6L OHC engine in the lacrosse. a road test i read on the lacrosse says the 3.6L has more muscle at all speeds than the 3.8L OHV. like someone said before, pontiac is suppose to be for the sporty crowd. so why not make the 3.6L OHC an option on the G6? it's a more flexible engine suited for aggressive driving.
Electric steering on the base models is a power assist provided by a small electric engine attached to the steering column.
Benefits are fuel saving, fewer moving parts meaning less expensive maintenance - almost nothing goes wrong with simple electric engines - and probably better reliability, no need to change fluid.
Drawbacks are lack of road feel. Software upgrades are addressing this, but it will probably never be rack and pinon.
Hydraulic in the loaded models is pretty much what you find in nearly every sports car with power assist. Steering boost comes from fluid pressure.
Benefits are road feel the way we grew up knowing.
Drawbacks are increased fuel usage, maintenance - have to change the fluid - and reliability, more moving parts and seals to go bad.
Thanks, logic, for the explanation. I think now I finally understand, but it's a bit of a disappointment. In a 22k and up car that looks as sporty as the G6, you should get a good steering system from the start, and not have to spring for the GT model. Same goes for abs. On an LX Accord V6, a c.22k car, you get rack and pinion steering, a tight handling suspension, air bags galore, etc., and an engine with 40 more hp. To get a G6 that really could compete would cost c.24k. I guess the G6 is going to have rebates that will equal this cost, but at this point I'd have to give the edge to the Honda.
The GTP's standard dynamic vehicle control system will use steering inputs for making its decissions. I would think that an electric power steering system would be more compatible with this. And offering two different steering systems would appear to be an aviodable expense. Guess we have to wait until the GTP comes out this spring.
Certainly it is hard to get road feel the way most enthusiasts like it from electric steering.
But electric steering does not make the car harder to steer.
It uses fewer parts. It takes up less space. It uses less energy.
From a subjective driver's perspective, hydraulic boost is probably better. From an engineers perspective, the yeas are possibly in electric boost's favor.
if people dont like the 3500 or any other OHV engine that is their perrogative but do not suggest that OHV engines arent refined. Current OHV engines are quiet and vibration free, even the articles that had little positive to say about the G6 acknowledged that the engine is refined. I dont think anyone has had any complaints about the HEMI engine in the 300C. As I said most people do not know the difference between OHC and OHV. If you dont believe me take an informal survey yourself. Whomever was making a big deal about the G6 being underpowered and behind in the hp wars needs to remember that GM offered 240hp in midsize sedans back in 1997. At that time the Camry had 192hp and the Accord had 170hp. The Japanese caught up and then surpassed the domestic cars but the 3.9 and 3.6 will give GM parity in terms of V6 power.
The Malibu and GP only got heavy incentives towards the end of the model year. Their sales were increasing before that point and the Malibu's sales increases were largely due to the fact that the Maxx wasnt available at launch. Rebates arent going to force you to buy a car you dont like, especially when you can get some form of incentive on almost any non-luxry car these days. Where I live altimas and Camrys can be had for thousands off sticker. I'm pretty sure the Mazda6 has had some pretty hefty incentives itself, in this area it has been a modest seller at best.
Comments
Oh yeah, buy a Acura TSX, get the better warranty, the free loaner car that you probably will not use and a car that will be worth something in 4 years. At about the same price.
GM does not get it, and they never will because the American public lets them get away with it.
The G6 is an all new platform. The Grand Prix is just a updated model on an old platform. To compare the two is a mistake.
TSX is a good car, but the G6 is bigger and most likely more powerful. And I would imagine that I can get a G6 for thousands less than a TSX.
GM does get it and has and is making improvements.
If you think GM does not get it you have been either
A.) Hiding under a rock,
B.) Too busy protesting our sovereign right for self defence or,
C.) work for a foreign auto maker.
In the passed 5 Years, GM has slashed millions in warranty costs and looks at new ways to resolve the cost situation,
1997
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_n6_v33/ai_1955- 7989
1999
http://www.rbbi.com/desks/cs/disease.htm
"Wagoner said GM’s warranty costs have dropped 22 percent in the last four years."
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/15/a01-273018.htm
Improoved quality accross all brands,
"GM had 12 top-three performing vehicles, including four that were ranked highest in their segments, and three GM assembly plants were named best in initial quality for North America, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Initial Quality StudySM."
http://www.gmfleet.com/us/about/news/articles/053002.html
And is entering into new market segments with the Pontiac Solstice, fighting pound for pound with the Japanese (and America's manufacturing future) with cars like the Malibu, G6 and CTS, and has completely changed the way it does business with the development of the Cobalt...
http://www.freep.com/money/business/walsh12_20031212.htm
I do not intend to sound angry or menacing, it just that blanket statements such as "GM does not get it, and they never will because the American public lets them get away with it." are just not true and have been as such for many years now.
As for some of the blanket statements being made about GM and the G6 in particular. I would advise those people to educate themselves. IF the G6 turns out to be what is claimed, it is a new direction for GM and the car will NOT be like previous Pontiacs in terms of resale and quality.
I own a Saab 9-3, also based on the epsilon platform, and at 2 years and 37,000 miles it has been trouble free and a great performing car, within the limitations of its price range. But unlike the G6, which one will probably be able to drive off the lot for $25K or so, I had to pay $32,000 to get my epsilon platform car. So it's all relative....don't complain about the G6 and compare it to superior cars that cost $10 grand more.
I have owned 4 other GM products ('93 S-10, '95 Chevy C 1500, '01 Tahoe, and '03 Silverado) and not one of them ever had so much as a single trip to the repair shop, though I admit I didn't drive them out into extended old age. Conversely, my two BMW's and Dodge Ram were repeatedly breaking.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-09-20-lutz_x.htm
"If we don't change course and do North American vehicles that are equivalent to German vehicles or the best Japanese vehicles, we will be in the process of inevitable, continued decline," Lutz told reporters.
i can play this game too and post links all day long about how GM could "get it" just a little bit more. reliability is expected these days.
and your point b is obnoxious.
Let's not turn this into some sort of political statement, nor a sociological study of some arbitrarily defined segment of society, nor a dissertation on GM as a manufacturer, okay?
We can share our views of and experiences with a G6, but the rest of that stuff isn't appropriate. There may be some discussions on our News & Views board where some of these comments would fit, but they don't belong here.
Thanks.
i have a hunch the G6 will be closer to the malibu than your saab 9-3 in driving characteristics.
GM has already begun to change that, as witnessed in some of the aspirational new cars in its Cadillac lineup. Lutz says that transformation is set to continue across GM's Chevrolet, Buick and Pontiac brands, as the automaker pours more money into product development, quality and styling.
If your gonna post an article, at least make sure it makes your point. GM is really making huge strides in quality and product development, and if you can't see that, do not buy their product. In this market you can buy from another manufacturer, and still have a trouble free vehicle.
But to say that "GM cars generally do not hold up well over time and they seem to prematurely become obsolete." is really very childish and plain jane wrong. Many people here on the boards can attest to GM products being trouble-free or just plain dependable. Look at JD power too.
By the way, you didn't counter the facts that i posted, like
"GM had 12 top-three performing vehicles, including four that were ranked highest in their segments, and three GM assembly plants were named best in initial quality for North America, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Initial Quality StudySM."
http://www.gmfleet.com/us/about/news/articles/053002.html
or the fact that "GM’s warranty costs have dropped 22 percent in the last four years."
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/15/a01-273018.htm
And unlike your posts, which have no proof backing up your hatred of a US automaker and employer, you just call my points obnoxious.
Look, lets go back to the G6 which is a really cool car, armed with a very dependable engine (on a diet, but we all know its the new version of the Star Studded 3800 V6) an amazing platform (I've driven the Saab 9-3 on the same arcitechure and let me tell you, it is the BMW 3 series/Cadillac CTS of FWD sedans IMHO).
The platform has not shown any troublesome quality faults that i read about so far, and the engine is one of the most dependable in the business. This car should, if bolted on right, have excellent quality.
It would be nice to see a comparo of the sportier entries like the Altima, 6, Legacy, TSX and G6. Or maybe the Ford Fusion when that comes (6 based), since it's more likely to compete with Pontiac, if only for the domestic badging.
-juice
For what it is worth, the 'Bu, save for the no feedback electric steering, is pretty decent for a fwd sedan.
I have a feeling the forthcoming GT sedan and coupe with the 6mt and the 3.9 will have a well tuned suspension as well. This is one Pontiac that may actually deliver excitement.
How much do you reckon GM will ask for the hard top convertible coupe? Think it will it go over 30K?
Good review, although this site is always pretty positive.
If that's not planned obsolescence, I don't know what is!
G6 will be better if they retune the steering and put real tires on there. Those alone will be big improvements.
-juice
When quality improves, its just that, it improves. THere are still bad cars on the lot, any lot. Whenever you buy a car from any manufacturer its alwayse the luck of the draw. You could buy a lexus and the tranny will fail on thi first onramp, or get a kia and run 6 years no problem.
The best way to avoid these problems entirely is to walk :P
;-)
-juice
Honda, Mazda, Toyota etc have earned their reputation by building solid, dependable, quality cars. They may cost more per pound initially, but you get more automobile value in the short and long run.
I am not going to cite articles, JD Power surveys and the like. The articles cited by folks extolling the quality increases made by GM prove my point. GM still has a way to go.
I'm going to have to remove further messages that aren't on topic.
Thanks for your cooperation.
No reason the G6 should not be ok in the long run.
Personally I think the Oprah show will hurt sales. People will remember the $28000 and think I can get a Lexus/Acura/Infinity for not much more. Why would I spend it on a Pontiac. This is a lot higher than the low $20's for a Camry or Accord. I realize that additional discounts/rebates will bring the purchase price down, but others may not.
Well, right off the bat you can see they spent some money on this car, the headlights are bigger, and they really are jeweled. The older GP looked like it came from a Junkyard compared to the G6. The grill is not plastic, its galvanised steel.
This is a very good thing since many GM's have plastic grills, yet nissans and infinitis have chrome. Here is one question i have for GM, if they going out on the limb here and spending extra money for a steel grille, why not give it a chome or polished finish? It would accentuate the headlamps and looks awsome in any color. The way it is now, unless you loked closely you would think the grille is plastic.
Do GP's have plastic grilles? Anywhay the car looks good and by the roofline it seems you have good room in the back. Meybe ill go in for a test drive, but if i see a 30K sticker, i better hear two words, the first is 5000, the next begins with an "r"
i'll be checking out the local pontiac dealer later today in hopes of seeing the car in person.
exalteddragon1: since your reply was such a mis-representation of what i said i felt compelled to do a rebuttal in the News and Views/Return of GM's Might topic.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 38220
I have not been in a G6, but anyone reading could tell the following:
At the end of the review, they said: "regular fuel is specified". Regular fuel costs less than premium, and they did not mention that competitor cars like Altima require premium fuel. This is a big advantage for the G6. Also they did not mention as an advantage the good fuel economy of the g6 with respect to its competition...
they said... 22/32 for base and 21/29 for GT.
well, for nissan its...
the 3.5 SE its 21/27 and the 3.5 SL is 20/30 according to http://www.autosite.com/Nissan/2005-Nissan-Altima.html
that, combined with using regular fuel, could save the g6 driver a good amount of money.
Also, they kept saying it was worse than the competition in certain aspects eluding to refinement, but never said just how or why. This is the most specific they got:
"The early production test car, for example, had dashboard and windshield pillar squeaks. Pontiac says it knows why and has changed the factory tooling to eliminate the problem. Right there is an argument for waiting to buy."
Why is this an argument, you just mentioned that GM changed the factory tooling to solve the problem, and you also mentioned these were early production cars!
wow, the author of the USA today review must think his readers are... well intellectually deficient
G6 really needs the CTS 3.6 DOHC to compete with Alima & Accord V6's. That engine's an option on the LaCrosse. GM thinks Buick owners are more rev happy than Pontiac?
those who want the more powerfull engine will get the accord/altima V6 or the 3.9L V6 in the G6.
and the car i was checking out was $27k. i see $4/5k discounts coming soon. the USA review had it about right.
my next hope for a domestic car for me anyway will be the ford fusion.
I wanted to test a G6 before buying this fall, but I had to pull the trigger last week and got a Mazda 6. I remain interested in the G6 as I'll need a car for my kids in a few years and I'd love to be able to cash in my GM card savings on one.
Only a small fraction of Altima/Accord are powerful V6's, but they serve as halos for those models, reducing incentives & holding up resale value. Very few Camry owners care how much hp their engine makes. That doesn't stop Toyota from committing to keeping up with its rivals, which they came out and declared. It's all about the image, saying your technology can match anyone's.
Caddy is having a wonder renaissance only when it decides to go head to head with its main competitors technologically. It can happen at Buick or Pontiac or Ford but only if they decide to do the same thing.
the 3.3L V6 is available on the Camry SE model and though it only has 225 hp it has a healthy 240 ft-lb of torque.
why doesn't GM offer both the 3.9L OHV and 3.6L OHC engines. those who prefer a OHC are happy and those who prefer a OHV are happy too.
well at least buick will offer the 3.6L OHC engine in the lacrosse. a road test i read on the lacrosse says the 3.6L has more muscle at all speeds than the 3.8L OHV. like someone said before, pontiac is suppose to be for the sporty crowd. so why not make the 3.6L OHC an option on the G6? it's a more flexible engine suited for aggressive driving.
Benefits are fuel saving, fewer moving parts meaning less expensive maintenance - almost nothing goes wrong with simple electric engines - and probably better reliability, no need to change fluid.
Drawbacks are lack of road feel. Software upgrades are addressing this, but it will probably never be rack and pinon.
Hydraulic in the loaded models is pretty much what you find in nearly every sports car with power assist. Steering boost comes from fluid pressure.
Benefits are road feel the way we grew up knowing.
Drawbacks are increased fuel usage, maintenance - have to change the fluid - and reliability, more moving parts and seals to go bad.
Also the MSRP on the 2005 V6 Accord is over $24,000. So that compares well to a $23,200 Air Baged ABS G6.
Certainly it is hard to get road feel the way most enthusiasts like it from electric steering.
But electric steering does not make the car harder to steer.
It uses fewer parts. It takes up less space. It uses less energy.
From a subjective driver's perspective, hydraulic boost is probably better. From an engineers perspective, the yeas are possibly in electric boost's favor.