The insurance on my '04 Mazda 6s costs $120 per year less than on our '99 Jimmy, and the Mazda has higher collision and comprehensive deductables.
Insurance rates vary widely depending upon the company, the location, use of vehicle and the driver's age and history. Quotes from different companies can vary by thousands per year. Strange industry.
"Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition."
American cars, at leat used to be the safest cars in the world. Try crashing any 1970 pontiac with any fancy "mercedes/crumple zone/volvo" junk of today. You will see that all of the modern safety features work, but the thick steel and chrome of the older generation barely show a spot when crashing into the new generation. This is because back then cars werent designed to relent in a crash.
I would rather have no airbags, no crumple zones, and no onstar or any other trash safty garbadge they have out today, and have thicker steel and a meatier frame. I would prefer the person i'm crashing into have the crumple zones. It would save me a trip to the mechanic. Let him crumple, I got someplace to go.
As for todays cars, like the G6 and all that. I believe they are becomming similar in this. They have thinner steel and more airbags. I still think American cars do better in real world crashes, though, than the imports. I don't know about the G6 spesifically. I heard on the colorado/canyon forms that GM is using thinner steel in the colorado. Bad news.
Hey, recently another friend of mine crashed her pontiac GP (2000 or so) into a 1970's bonneville. The Grandma and her old car were unscaved. My firends car was nearly totalled. Luckily it was a sidways crash and my firend was in the drivers seat with no one else in the car.
Imagine if tank designers took safety like automakers? A tall sand dune would stop a tank!
I do not wish to start arguments, and lets please keep this to the G6, I'm just saying that in terms of saftey steel is more important than airbags, but is overlooked today.
I don't see that much value in the G6. A G6 with most of the options I would want has an MSRP of $23,000. That's not even a GT model. Doesn't seem like such a good deal to me.
"When I was looking at new cars it was going to cost me as much to insure a new Mazda3 as it was for a new GTO."
Cross shopping a Mazda3 with a GTO? Strange.
"I would rather have no airbags, no crumple zones, and no onstar or any other trash safty garbadge they have out today, and have thicker steel and a meatier frame."
Good luck with that.
"I still think American cars do better in real world crashes, though, than the imports."
And your thoughts are based on what? Do you study automobile crashes? Or is this just what you "think"?
I don't understand GM's thinking. i read today that in 2006 Buick will replace the Le Sabre with a new vehcile. It is expected to have a 6 speed auto transmission and a v8 made for front wheel drive. Guess the old geysers who drive it want teh newest and most powerful technology. If it were up to me, I'd put them in the Pontiac Grand Prix and G6. But then what do I know?????
the 2006 Le Sabre replacement(named Lucerne) will replace the Park Avenue and so Buick wants to move the "Le Sabre" more upscale. Click below and scroll down to the article. Old fogies typically don't like the ride of the Pontiacs - too stiff. http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7675&sid=17- - - 3&n=156
My personal car experience with domestics and imports over 30 years is a draw. Owned Subaru, Toyota and Volvo verses Chevy,Dodge, Ford, GMC, Pontiac. Most reliable = tie; 82 El Camino & 89 Pontiac Sunbird. Worst = 86 Grand Am; most niggling 98 Volvo. The Subaru and Toyota were no better than the domestics, but always had more expensive parts.
Had my Montana in for an oil change so I decided to take a G6 GT for a spin. All I can say is wow. The car felt tight and responsive. Inside materials were very good and assembly was the best I have seen in a GM car.
G6 will be a best seller assuming quality stays up. Given what I have seen in the Malibu, I have little doubt.
I wish people would stop harping on the fact that the G6 will not win many coverts or blow the competition out of the water. No car in this class is heads and shoulders above the others. The Accord and Altima are probably the best overall, but the Camry has outsold both for years. Meanwhile cars like the Mazda 6 and even the new Ford 500 have strong selling points. The G6 is for people who want space, a few unique features and nice styling. It is not going to put Honda or Toyota out of business, but it does give pontiac a decent entry that is worth cross shopping. IF pontiac can get former grand am and alero owners to buy this car and get a few converts on top of that they will be in business. If the Grand Am sold well and it was clearly inferior I dont see why the G6 wont be a hit. As a current Alero owner I can say this car is the first GM car that in my price range that I would consider getting to replace my car. On the import side I would consider the mazda 6 but its too small and the plastic metal dash kills me. The Accord is ugly and ubiquitous and the Altima needs a lot of help in terms of styling and torque steer issues. Out of all the cars I've mentioned the Accord is the only one that I feel is clearly better than the G6 and thats only if you can stomach that ugly rear end.
Does anyone know what the difference is between the standard suspension on the base G6 and the sport suspension on the GT models? Is there a big difference and is noticeable enough to justify spending the extra money on a GT? The only thing on the GT that I consider a must have is antilock brakes and I acb easily get them as an option on the base model.
I bought a Mazda 6s with the same reservations you have (interior size, plastic metal dash). My appraisal of the midsize class is virtually identical to yours.
I believe the G6 has a chance to be a real player in this segment, once it proves itself. It is a car I really wanted to test, especially since I have a GM Card with earnings I couldn't use on the Mazda. I waited three months for it but I couldn't keep my old car running safely any longer without making major expenditures.
Since the G6 is based on the Saab/Malibu platform, a lot of the fears about a first-year GM product may be alleviated, although I'm not sure I would have taken the chance. It is difficult for me to buy a GM sedan without significant rebates, because chances are those rebates are going to show up at some point and the first group of G6 buyers may feel like they've overpaid.
Per the Pontiac website the GT has: "Suspension, Sport, with thicker direct acting front stabilizer bar and enhanced steering rack bushing, and thicker rear stabilizer bar" meaning it will ride a bit tautly and tighter handling. The GT also get ABS, adj pedal, Monsoon stereo... so the extra $ is probably worth it if you were going to add most of those to a base G6. http://www.pontiac.com/specs/specs_content_files/specs_viewall.js- p?brand=g6
There are so many good sedans on the market, it really comes down to price, value and taste. Altima, Accord and 6 are the sportiest and most appealing but they all have drawbacks and issues. G6 joins the party and is competitive also. It get's GM back in the sport sedan market. My Grand Prix is wonderful but I can see why some people think it's a bit old school. G6 is fully modern and will sell very well.
But the G6 is not "fully modern". The V6's are OHV designs. An OHC engine would be much more "modern". The 4 cylinder is a DOHC engine shouldn't the V6 be at least SOHC?
As the owner of an 05 Altima, I am SURE that the Pontiac G6 will be a pretty good seller.
The Altima came out in MY 02 and it sold VERY well, even though it had a cheap [non-permissible content removed] interior and a rough ride.
It sold better than ANY other Altima had before and it became VERY competitive to the Accord and Camry. As a matter of fact I read somewhere that if you take away the Accord Coupe's sales, the Altima sells almost as much as the Accord sedan...but I am sure that a bulk of Altima sales come from the fleets.
Can the G6 do the same thing? I believe so. And if it doesn't I still think it is a respectable car with nice styling and features..the interior is NOT class leading, but overall, it seems to be a VAST improvement over the Grand Am
And as we all should know, the Grand Am was the best selling Compact car in its class...so I don't expect the G6 to be any different in sales...hell it should SALE BETTER
Also, 1487, As far as the Altima and Accord being the best...I have to disagree
The Accord and Mazda6 are the best IMO..
The Altima and Camry fall somewhere in between. As a matter of fact, from what I have seen, the Altima is really no better than the G6 IMO.
But saying it's better than the Grand Am is like saying Fudruckers is better than the McDonalds you had earlier. Both are still just burgers to people who are used to eating steaks. However, to those looking to move up from their Grand Am, Cavalier, or Neon the G6 is extremely nice. It's just not going to make a lot of people regret buying some of the other sedans for sale in the segment.
What class was the Grand Am in? The Civic was the best selling compact and the Camry the best selling mid-size. Where did the Grand AM fit into that and what was considered it's competition?
OT I know but I will say this ... I was more impressed with the G6 than I was with the 05 Altima we looked at. The Altima interior just turns me off. I think it's the driving position and the wide expanse of dash on the passenger side.
I remember seeing somewhere on a website and in an article that the Grand AM was the best selling compact car.
According to many articles cars like the Civic, Corolla and Sentra are considered Subcompact
While the Grand Am, Passat and even Mazda6 are consider Compact.
Then the Accord, Camry and Altima are considered the Midsizers...
I don't really agree with that but m Consumer Guide Magazine breaks them down that way and so do others..
So by that theory (which could be wrong)
The best selling Subcompact was the Civic, The best selling compact car was the Grand Am and the best selling midsizer was the Camry
I do remember seeing Pontiac advertising this at one time or another.
Also, the Accord was considered Compact back in the 80s and late 90s until the 1998 model debuted. The Accord was never really a "Midsize" sedan until 98. The thing I don't understand is that the Accord is considered a midsize today, yet I have seen MANY magazines say the 6 is a compact but the Accord isn't much bigger than the 6.
The Accord is one of the "smaller" midsizers though.
When the Altima, 626 and Grand Am were competitors along with the Contour. I even think some magazines refer to the Sebring/Status as compacts...at least the 1st generation models were.
Personally, I see anything bigger than the Current Civic or Corolla is midsize
I have another question. I was interested in the fancy shiny chrome wheels because I could not locate any G6's with the standard 17 inch alloys until two people yes two at my work bought them this week. They are very cool so now I may go with the thin spoked standard alloys. But my question is a lot of people have told me that the shiny chrome is horrible to take care of especially in the winter with salt and snow. I was told I will need to constantly rinse off the salt or the chrome will expand or something. Can someone tell me if this is true? I never took great care of my wheels or paint i nthe past and althoughI hope to with this one I do not want constant work! Thanks!
That's what I thought max. Honestly, the 6 and Passat top out at around 100,000 units for the Passat (probably less than that now) and Mazda sells about 80,000 6's. So the competition in that category isn't fierce. Also, you have to consider the number of Grand Am's that were sold to fleets.
A co-worker of mine has a 2004 Malibu (the G6's cousin) and so far she has had no problems in 6 months. She paid $16000 or so after the rebates and her husband's GM loyalty rebate. Not a bad deal for a mid-size car.
If I can get a GTP G6 with the 6-speed manual for somewhere around $20,000 it would be a good enough deal to make me at least test drive one. The buy-out for my Accord is $13,000 at the end of the lease so that will be what I am comparing possible replacements to. But at the time my Accord lease ends the next generation Accord will be out as competition for the G6, plus a redesigned Camry, and probably a redesigned Mazda6 and Altima.
Max, out of curiosity why are you so down on your Altima? I remember reading some time ago that you were having problems with the radio. Anything else crop up? You probably should post your response on the Altima board as this is for the G6 discussion.
It is BS to say that the G6 will only seem acceptable to people who currently own Grand Ams and Neons. You are suggesting that people who buy Altimas or Accords feel that those cars are light years ahead of their competitors. People buy cars for many reasons including brand loyalty, styling, price or recommendations from friends or family. I'm sure most Accord or Camry owners are very happy but that doesnt mean they feel their cars are in a different league. Most cars in this class are of similar size and offer similar features. Besides, there are some people who will acknowledge they like a car like the G6 better than a ubiquitous accord or camry but just refuse to give a domestic car a chance. I personally do not see a problem with the G6's interior considering it starts at $21K. It is just as nice as most cars in this class. I still want to know what car(s) are so far superior in terms of interior design? I think the G6 is at least even with the camry, 6 and Altima.
from past Pontiacs. I was in for service today and was able to give a G6 a going over. Couldn't take a test drive as it was "sold". Dealer has gotten 3 G6's in and all have sold. This was a base GT with moonroof,ABS,wheels... list w/delivery about $23k. The body and interior are not like past pontiacs; I own a GA and it's not a GA replacement, its several steps up. Fit finish and materials are about on par with the Camrys and Accords I've been in. With the V6 and optioned as it is, the price is quite competitive to an Accord or Camry or even the Altima. Its clean and well made. I wish I could have driven it to see if it rides and handles and is on par with the competition or ? I also went over the new Buick La Crosse and had the same impression - exterior and interior a departure from the traditional Buick. It looks much better in the flesh than the photos(and less like a Taurus/Sable). I don't think hard core Toyota, Honda and Nissan fans probably won't be won over but those shopping around will definitely give the G6 a good look.
My guess is that most Accord/Camry owners believe their cars are in another class of midsize sedans. The Camcords history of reliability, quality construction and strong resale value give them reason to believe that.
You are correct, though, that at some point many Camcord owners will at least consider the G6 if its build quality proves comparable.
"It is BS to say that the G6 will only seem acceptable to people who currently own Grand Ams and Neons."
I said that the G6 is a tremendous step up from those cars and they will sell like hotcakes to THAT buyer. However, the CamCord crowd is going to be harder to win over.
"Besides, there are some people who will acknowledge they like a car like the G6 better than a ubiquitous accord or camry but just refuse to give a domestic car a chance."
I am not one of those people. The G6 is nice enough that I would at least drive one if the price was right and the manual transmission does materialize. It would have to be significantly cheaper than the competition though. My buy-out on my 04 Accord will be $13,000 at the end of the lease. A new G6 would be an option if I could get a GTP 6-speed with sunroof, XM, and side curtains for $19,000. Anything more than that and I would probably just buy an Accord EX V6 6-speed or buy my Accord at the end of the lease term.
"I personally do not see a problem with the G6's interior considering it starts at $21K"
The problem is that the Accord has a better interior and it starts at $16,000. AC or not it makes you feel like you paid more. It's not just materials and finish, it's the overall design of the interior that makes the Accord's interior better IMO.
I checked out a G6 at a dealership a few weeks ago. The only one they had was a fairly well-equipped GT model. I was at another Pontiac dealership yesterday and thought I would check out the G6 again since there were more in stock. I got in, sat down, and thought the seat cushion was at a weird angle. So, I reached to the side of the seat to try to adjust it... and considering this car was stickering around $23K, you would think there would be a knob or two there (or even a power seat for that price). Well, there was no way I could adjust it other than the usual back and forth adjustment plus the angle of the seatback. I was told that the only way I could get a fully adjustable driver's seat would be to move to the GT model. That's ridiculous. There are many cars out there that cost one half to two thirds as much (like my Hyundai Elantra) that have nice, adjustable seats. I hope GM makes a full power seat an option in the lower level G6s, or at least makes the seats more adjustable to begin with.
Why not offer the full 6 way adjustable seat on the regular model? (It doesn't have to be leather, just a regular cloth seat.) That's what I want, and not the 4 way which just simply adds height adjustment to the seat. (This is an issue with a lot of GM cars, not just the G6. They need to make the seats more adjustable, and it doesn't have to be a power seat in order for this to occur.)
Saw my first G6 today, on the road no less. It had dealer stickers and regular plates on it so it was not a tester, some one bought it. Very nice!
I also saw my first SMART car on the weekend. What a silly car, 2 seats and space for 3 bags of groceries. Better off with a AVEO. I would not want to get hit by a truck in that thing either, I don't care how good the tests are!
I finally saw my first G6 and it was painted Brilliant Blue with Black Leather upholstry. Compared with my 1999 GT1, the exterior is definitely plainer without the double exhaust pipes, rear duplicate back up lights , color coordinated rear view mirrors and other GT1 styling features that make it quite a standout. I liked the G6 exterior but did not think it was attention grabbing like my GT1 was and still is.
The interior was impressive in interior space. The black leather seats were comfy and the leather seemed of high quality. The rear leg room was most impressive. The rear door panels were very basic and not very original. The dash chrome-looking dials were nice but the center console was so plain. I did like the solid dash cover hiding the airbag and the air conditioning vent controls. These added a higher look of quality to the car compared to the GT1.
However, the door lock control being on the window sill is so inconvenient especially when you want to cancel the auto door lock while still having the car in drive. Also, the steering wheel coming out of the Malibu was cheap looking and the new tilt wheel feature while offering the telescoping feature makes using the tilt feature for getting out of car or changing driving angle while in motion very annoying and I think dangerous.
The radio controls on the steering wheel seem to be less versatile than the GT1 and are now combined with the cruise control. It seems a step in the wrong direction.
Overall, I have no great desire to drop my very nicely functioning GT1 ( especially after dropping $2500+ in maintenance) for the somewhat higher quality looking and feeling G6. Also, the price is way over the top. You can get a Cadillac CTS with rear drive and the great 3.6 V6 for a few thousand more.
Maybe, after I see more on the road my interest will peak more and rebates are certainly going to follow.
Jeweled Headlamps Jeweled Instumentation Jeweled Vents 17" Wheels 200hp Standard
C'mon...
And, you know the CTS with the 3.6 is like 34K at least. SO if the G6 you saw was 27, then its like 7 thousand more. Its a totally different car. I like the CTS more, but you cannot compare the two. The closest in price will be the GTP with the 3.9L, to the base cts with a 2.8, the CTS would only make 210hp in that trim, so its your choice, you could get all pontiac with everything, or be seen driving a cadillac.
I have an 04 Grand Prix GT2 and I also have no great desire to change to a G6. The GP is less modern, but it's comfortable and in many ways I prefer the looks. I think the 2 cars together give Pontiac a strong mid size sedan line up though, complimenting each other for different tastes.
The Los Angeles area is apparently having a price war on the CTS and not yet the G6. There are quoted prices of 29,950 for the 2005 CTS compared to the list price of the G6 for $27,500. So, when the G6 starts its heavy marketing campaign the difference you state might again be apparent. But, to get rear wheel drive, 5-speed auto, and the 3.6 engine is very enticing even if I think the CTS is much uglier than the G6.
Edmunds stated the the steering wheel was too big! What! It looks perfectly suited to the car! And it seems relatively small, actually. Don't tell me the CTS has a bigger wheel...
They defenetly took some shots out, saying ABS don't come standard, but not saying that they are standard on the other trim levels.
Thats not bieng fair and balanced edmunds, common you can do better than that.
They said the interrior was ok but cheap, I have never sat in one so i don't know. But when Many people feel the interrior is the strong point of this car its wierd that edmunds would say its cheap... I know im going to be bashed for saying that.
The reader ultimatly goes away not interested in the g6... well, IMO. This is because they just took so many shots at it, and didn't mention the other engine choices that will soon be avaiable, and the coup and convertable is included in the well... omission.
The wheel of the G6 actually looks a big small to me, i saw a g6 in person and well... but hey, since i didn't sit in it i guess the ball is in there court untill someone who bought or at least drove in one says otherwise.
I do think they will sell alot of them despite Edmunds and a few other journalists. The review did have its highlights, but it just seemed a bit negative for such a new and big deal car.
In your last post, you mentioned a few features the G6 has:
Tilt and Telescoping Steering Wheel Power Adjustible Pedals Manual Fore-Aft Adjustment Ratcheting Lumbar Power Driver's Height Height Adjustible Seat Belts Power Adjustible Outside Mirrors
It's a given these days that most cars have a tilt steering wheel, manual fore-aft adjustment on the seat, and height-adjustable seat belts. The base G6 doesn't have power anything on the seat that's standard, though. You have to pay for the height adjustment. Go sit in a base $12K Elantra or a base $17K Sonata and you'll see more knobs to allow you to fine-tune the seat cushion angle and height. I'm glad GM has made a telescoping steering wheel standard and adjustable pedals available on the G6, but you think they could have stuck a knob or two on the side of the seat in the base model to keep me from feeling like I'm sinking into the seat at a weird angle when I sit down (even after adjusting the angle of the seatback).
My issue with the base G6 had to do with the seat, not with the other factors affecting the driving position. I apologize if this wasn't really made clear in that first post.
They are automotive critics because they CRITIQUE!
Some of your points betray your clear bias towards this vehicle. Ex- Edmunds stated that GM chose not to make ABS standard. THAT IS NOT a shot at the car. ABS isnt standard. That is a fact. Its optional on base trim lines, and standard only on higher priced trim lines (GT, GTP).
Other engine choices that will soon be available? Arent the first avialabilities of the 3.9L V6 as well as the 4 cylinder going to be in the summer of next year? Thats not so soon.
And what do you mean by "The wheel of the G6 actually looks a big small to me, i saw a g6 in person and well...but hey, since i didn't sit in it i guess the ball is in there court untill someone who bought or at least drove in one says otherwise."?
You're knocking edmunds for not being Fox News, and meanwhile, some of your points border on incomprehensible.
Personally, I hope edmunds continues to call it like they see it, whether we all disagree with it or not. I do not feel edmunds.com reviews are the best available, but I dont recall every paying to read one, nor am I forced to read them. And there are plenty of other sources to consult, which most serious buyers do. (Hint: Car and Driver's preview of the G6 was perhaps even less flattering.)
Not too bad a review. I think the pricing gets a bit up there on the loaded GT models. I think this car could be better priced but rebates will take care of that within a year.
Interesting comments about the steering. I thought it was fine on my test, but perhaps they are not all built the same? He said one car he drove was better than the other.
If there were more fair on this review (as they are on other reviews, ie CTS-V) they would have said "ABS isn't standard on the base trim, but is is on the others."
Then they start to mention safety, and how women who value saftey would not like the missing ABS... I think thats BS, i bet the majority of G6's sold will have the ABS installed, and the small price difference between the base and GT is so negligable that the majority of buyers who can afford a base can probably afford an extra 2K or so for the base GT.
I have seen other reviews, such as Car and Driver, which seems to be a more favorable impression, when they did atack the car they didn't do any of these abs cheap shots.
Edmunds is free, and most of the time it is beter and fairer than most other reviewers. and BTW, C&D and R&T are also free online, the info just comes out after the issius are printed and sold.
The G6 is a much better car and Edmunds seems to give it credit for, as I remember they were wild about the Grand Prix in there first review, they knocked it at the full test.
I assumed they would at least do the same with the G6 but no, "lets kill the car now, way to many people know what it is and we need to keep them buying imports and outsourcing jobs."
The G6 is very competetive, alot more and many people gave it credit for, but now that we see what it is, not to point that out denotes bias.
I'd rather keep the jobs, and the managment here. Like I said many times before, if the car is a clear winner then it doesn't matter were its from, but it the car is competetive or better, why not give it the review it deserves?
"Like I said many times before, if the car is a clear winner then it doesn't matter were its from, but it the car is competetive or better, why not give it the review it deserves?"
I for one, didn't think the Edmunds review was negative. You said yourself that you haven't even sat in the G6, let alone drove it, so how do you know what kind of review it "deserves"?
I agree with the above. I dont think my post was out of line, I think it called to light a few facts. The edmunds.com piece was just that- edmudns.com opinion. It does not have to represent the opinion of every consumer. And simply because it doesnt, does not qualify it as unfair.
considering how much edmunds doesnt endorse any non-300C domestic product I thought their review of the G6 was positive. I didnt expect much from the review considering the source, but it was pretty fair. I think the reviewer made it obvious that he generally doesnt like Big 3 vehicles in general so the fact that he didnt outright bash the car is notable. Edmunds giving a GM car a lukewarm review has to be considered a win for GM, it's almost like winning MT car of the year.
Most if not all reviews stipulate the G6 is better than the Grand Am. Since my Grand Am's been a great car for seven years, that's saying enough to make me look forward to testing out a G6 when I move back to U.S. next month. I'm almost naseous at the sight of a new Grand Prix!
Anyone in Canada here bought one yet? Wondering how much wiggle room there might be. He is also looking at a Altima 4 banger and maybe a clear out 04 Taurus (they are giving these away sadly).
Comments
The insurance on my '04 Mazda 6s costs $120 per year less than on our '99 Jimmy, and the Mazda has higher collision and comprehensive deductables.
Insurance rates vary widely depending upon the company, the location, use of vehicle and the driver's age and history. Quotes from different companies can vary by thousands per year. Strange industry.
American cars, at leat used to be the safest cars in the world. Try crashing any 1970 pontiac with any fancy "mercedes/crumple zone/volvo" junk of today. You will see that all of the modern safety features work, but the thick steel and chrome of the older generation barely show a spot when crashing into the new generation. This is because back then cars werent designed to relent in a crash.
I would rather have no airbags, no crumple zones, and no onstar or any other trash safty garbadge they have out today, and have thicker steel and a meatier frame. I would prefer the person i'm crashing into have the crumple zones. It would save me a trip to the mechanic. Let him crumple, I got someplace to go.
As for todays cars, like the G6 and all that. I believe they are becomming similar in this. They have thinner steel and more airbags. I still think American cars do better in real world crashes, though, than the imports. I don't know about the G6 spesifically. I heard on the colorado/canyon forms that GM is using thinner steel in the colorado. Bad news.
Hey, recently another friend of mine crashed her pontiac GP (2000 or so) into a 1970's bonneville. The Grandma and her old car were unscaved. My firends car was nearly totalled. Luckily it was a sidways crash and my firend was in the drivers seat with no one else in the car.
Imagine if tank designers took safety like automakers? A tall sand dune would stop a tank!
I do not wish to start arguments, and lets please keep this to the G6, I'm just saying that in terms of saftey steel is more important than airbags, but is overlooked today.
Can't we all just get along and buy a G6?
Cross shopping a Mazda3 with a GTO? Strange.
"I would rather have no airbags, no crumple zones, and no onstar or any other trash safty garbadge they have out today, and have thicker steel and a meatier frame."
Good luck with that.
"I still think American cars do better in real world crashes, though, than the imports."
And your thoughts are based on what? Do you study automobile crashes? Or is this just what you "think"?
There are discussions on the News & Views board where much of the off-topic commentary here is very appropriate.
Thanks.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7675&sid=17- - - 3&n=156
My personal car experience with domestics and imports over 30 years is a draw. Owned Subaru, Toyota and Volvo verses Chevy,Dodge, Ford, GMC, Pontiac. Most reliable = tie; 82 El Camino & 89 Pontiac Sunbird. Worst = 86 Grand Am; most niggling 98 Volvo. The Subaru and Toyota were no better than the domestics, but always had more expensive parts.
I was looking for something fun to drive. Although they are extremely different, I found them both fun and somewhat unique.
I would have looked at a G6 as well but without a manual (now) I was not interested.
G6 will be a best seller assuming quality stays up. Given what I have seen in the Malibu, I have little doubt.
I bought a Mazda 6s with the same reservations you have (interior size, plastic metal dash). My appraisal of the midsize class is virtually identical to yours.
I believe the G6 has a chance to be a real player in this segment,
once it proves itself. It is a car I really wanted to test, especially since I have a GM Card with earnings I couldn't use on the Mazda. I waited three months for it but I couldn't keep my old car running safely any longer without making major expenditures.
Since the G6 is based on the Saab/Malibu platform, a lot of the fears about a first-year GM product may be alleviated, although I'm not sure I would have taken the chance. It is difficult for me to buy a GM sedan without significant rebates, because chances are those rebates are going to show up at some point and the first group of G6 buyers may feel like they've overpaid.
meaning it will ride a bit tautly and tighter handling. The GT also get ABS, adj pedal, Monsoon stereo... so the extra $ is probably worth it if you were going to add most of those to a base G6.
http://www.pontiac.com/specs/specs_content_files/specs_viewall.js- p?brand=g6
The Altima came out in MY 02 and it sold VERY well, even though it had a cheap [non-permissible content removed] interior and a rough ride.
It sold better than ANY other Altima had before and it became VERY competitive to the Accord and Camry.
As a matter of fact I read somewhere that if you take away the Accord Coupe's sales, the Altima sells almost as much as the Accord sedan...but I am sure that a bulk of Altima sales come from the fleets.
Can the G6 do the same thing? I believe so. And if it doesn't I still think it is a respectable car with nice styling and features..the interior is NOT class leading, but overall, it seems to be a VAST improvement over the Grand Am
And as we all should know, the Grand Am was the best selling Compact car in its class...so I don't expect the G6 to be any different in sales...hell it should SALE BETTER
Also, 1487, As far as the Altima and Accord being the best...I have to disagree
The Accord and Mazda6 are the best IMO..
The Altima and Camry fall somewhere in between. As a matter of fact, from what I have seen, the Altima is really no better than the G6 IMO.
What class was the Grand Am in? The Civic was the best selling compact and the Camry the best selling mid-size. Where did the Grand AM fit into that and what was considered it's competition?
OT I know but I will say this ... I was more impressed with the G6 than I was with the 05 Altima we looked at. The Altima interior just turns me off. I think it's the driving position and the wide expanse of dash on the passenger side.
According to many articles cars like the Civic, Corolla and Sentra are considered Subcompact
While the Grand Am, Passat and even Mazda6 are consider Compact.
Then the Accord, Camry and Altima are considered the Midsizers...
I don't really agree with that but m Consumer Guide Magazine breaks them down that way and so do others..
So by that theory (which could be wrong)
The best selling Subcompact was the Civic, The best selling compact car was the Grand Am and the best selling midsizer was the Camry
I do remember seeing Pontiac advertising this at one time or another.
Also, the Accord was considered Compact back in the 80s and late 90s until the 1998 model debuted. The Accord was never really a "Midsize" sedan until 98. The thing I don't understand is that the Accord is considered a midsize today, yet I have seen MANY magazines say the 6 is a compact but the Accord isn't much bigger than the 6.
The Accord is one of the "smaller" midsizers though.
Personally, I see anything bigger than the Current Civic or Corolla is midsize
A co-worker of mine has a 2004 Malibu (the G6's cousin) and so far she has had no problems in 6 months. She paid $16000 or so after the rebates and her husband's GM loyalty rebate. Not a bad deal for a mid-size car.
If I can get a GTP G6 with the 6-speed manual for somewhere around $20,000 it would be a good enough deal to make me at least test drive one. The buy-out for my Accord is $13,000 at the end of the lease so that will be what I am comparing possible replacements to. But at the time my Accord lease ends the next generation Accord will be out as competition for the G6, plus a redesigned Camry, and probably a redesigned Mazda6 and Altima.
I don't think hard core Toyota, Honda and Nissan fans probably won't be won over but those shopping around will definitely give the G6 a good look.
You are correct, though, that at some point many Camcord owners will at least consider the G6 if its build quality proves comparable.
I said that the G6 is a tremendous step up from those cars and they will sell like hotcakes to THAT buyer. However, the CamCord crowd is going to be harder to win over.
"Besides, there are some people who will acknowledge they like a car like the G6 better than a ubiquitous accord or camry but just refuse to give a domestic car a chance."
I am not one of those people. The G6 is nice enough that I would at least drive one if the price was right and the manual transmission does materialize. It would have to be significantly cheaper than the competition though. My buy-out on my 04 Accord will be $13,000 at the end of the lease. A new G6 would be an option if I could get a GTP 6-speed with sunroof, XM, and side curtains for $19,000. Anything more than that and I would probably just buy an Accord EX V6 6-speed or buy my Accord at the end of the lease term.
"I personally do not see a problem with the G6's interior considering it starts at $21K"
The problem is that the Accord has a better interior and it starts at $16,000. AC or not it makes you feel like you paid more. It's not just materials and finish, it's the overall design of the interior that makes the Accord's interior better IMO.
Power Adjustible Pedals
Manual Fore-Aft Adjustment
Ratcheting Lumbar
Power Driver's Height
Height Adjustible Seat Belts
Power Adjustible Outside Mirrors
And you couldn't find a comfortable driving position with out power tilt seat base? And you can find more in a $15,000 car?
I also saw my first SMART car on the weekend. What a silly car, 2 seats and space for 3 bags of groceries. Better off with a AVEO. I would not want to get hit by a truck in that thing either, I don't care how good the tests are!
The interior was impressive in interior space. The black leather seats were comfy and the leather seemed of high quality. The rear leg room was most impressive. The rear door panels were very basic and not very original. The dash chrome-looking dials were nice but the center console was so plain. I did like the solid dash cover hiding the airbag and the air conditioning vent controls. These added a higher look of quality to the car compared to the GT1.
However, the door lock control being on the window sill is so inconvenient especially when you want to cancel the auto door lock while still having the car in drive. Also, the steering wheel coming out of the Malibu was cheap looking and the new tilt wheel feature while offering the telescoping feature makes using the tilt feature for getting out of car or changing driving angle while in motion very annoying and I think dangerous.
The radio controls on the steering wheel seem to be less versatile than the GT1 and are now combined with the cruise control. It seems a step in the wrong direction.
Overall, I have no great desire to drop my very nicely functioning GT1 ( especially after dropping $2500+ in maintenance) for the somewhat higher quality looking and feeling G6. Also, the price is way over the top. You can get a Cadillac CTS with rear drive and the great 3.6 V6 for a few thousand more.
Maybe, after I see more on the road my interest will peak more and rebates are certainly going to follow.
Jeweled Instumentation
Jeweled Vents
17" Wheels 200hp Standard
C'mon...
And, you know the CTS with the 3.6 is like 34K at least. SO if the G6 you saw was 27, then its like 7 thousand more. Its a totally different car.
I like the CTS more, but you cannot compare the two. The closest in price will be the GTP with the 3.9L, to the base cts with a 2.8, the CTS would only make 210hp in that trim, so its your choice, you could get all pontiac with everything, or be seen driving a cadillac.
Thats a tough one if you ask me!
They defenetly took some shots out, saying ABS don't come standard, but not saying that they are standard on the other trim levels.
Thats not bieng fair and balanced edmunds, common you can do better than that.
They said the interrior was ok but cheap, I have never sat in one so i don't know. But when Many people feel the interrior is the strong point of this car its wierd that edmunds would say its cheap... I know im going to be bashed for saying that.
The reader ultimatly goes away not interested in the g6... well, IMO. This is because they just took so many shots at it, and didn't mention the other engine choices that will soon be avaiable, and the coup and convertable is included in the well... omission.
The wheel of the G6 actually looks a big small to me, i saw a g6 in person and well... but hey, since i didn't sit in it i guess the ball is in there court untill someone who bought or at least drove in one says otherwise.
I do think they will sell alot of them despite Edmunds and a few other journalists. The review did have its highlights, but it just seemed a bit negative for such a new and big deal car.
Tilt and Telescoping Steering Wheel
Power Adjustible Pedals
Manual Fore-Aft Adjustment
Ratcheting Lumbar
Power Driver's Height
Height Adjustible Seat Belts
Power Adjustible Outside Mirrors
It's a given these days that most cars have a tilt steering wheel, manual fore-aft adjustment on the seat, and height-adjustable seat belts. The base G6 doesn't have power anything on the seat that's standard, though. You have to pay for the height adjustment. Go sit in a base $12K Elantra or a base $17K Sonata and you'll see more knobs to allow you to fine-tune the seat cushion angle and height. I'm glad GM has made a telescoping steering wheel standard and adjustable pedals available on the G6, but you think they could have stuck a knob or two on the side of the seat in the base model to keep me from feeling like I'm sinking into the seat at a weird angle when I sit down (even after adjusting the angle of the seatback).
My issue with the base G6 had to do with the seat, not with the other factors affecting the driving position. I apologize if this wasn't really made clear in that first post.
They are automotive critics because they CRITIQUE!
Some of your points betray your clear bias towards this vehicle. Ex- Edmunds stated that GM chose not to make ABS standard. THAT IS NOT a shot at the car. ABS isnt standard. That is a fact. Its optional on base trim lines, and standard only on higher priced trim lines (GT, GTP).
Other engine choices that will soon be available? Arent the first avialabilities of the 3.9L V6 as well as the 4 cylinder going to be in the summer of next year? Thats not so soon.
And what do you mean by "The wheel of the G6 actually looks a big small to me, i saw a g6 in person and well...but hey, since i didn't sit in it i guess the ball is in there court untill someone who bought or at least drove in one says otherwise."?
You're knocking edmunds for not being Fox News, and meanwhile, some of your points border on incomprehensible.
Personally, I hope edmunds continues to call it like they see it, whether we all disagree with it or not. I do not feel edmunds.com reviews are the best available, but I dont recall every paying to read one, nor am I forced to read them. And there are plenty of other sources to consult, which most serious buyers do. (Hint: Car and Driver's preview of the G6 was perhaps even less flattering.)
~alpha
Interesting comments about the steering. I thought it was fine on my test, but perhaps they are not all built the same? He said one car he drove was better than the other.
If there were more fair on this review (as they are on other reviews, ie CTS-V) they would have said "ABS isn't standard on the base trim, but is is on the others."
Then they start to mention safety, and how women who value saftey would not like the missing ABS... I think thats BS, i bet the majority of G6's sold will have the ABS installed, and the small price difference between the base and GT is so negligable that the majority of buyers who can afford a base can probably afford an extra 2K or so for the base GT.
I have seen other reviews, such as Car and Driver, which seems to be a more favorable impression, when they did atack the car they didn't do any of these abs cheap shots.
Edmunds is free, and most of the time it is beter and fairer than most other reviewers. and BTW, C&D and R&T are also free online, the info just comes out after the issius are printed and sold.
The G6 is a much better car and Edmunds seems to give it credit for, as I remember they were wild about the Grand Prix in there first review, they knocked it at the full test.
I assumed they would at least do the same with the G6 but no, "lets kill the car now, way to many people know what it is and we need to keep them buying imports and outsourcing jobs."
The G6 is very competetive, alot more and many people gave it credit for, but now that we see what it is, not to point that out denotes bias.
I'd rather keep the jobs, and the managment here. Like I said many times before, if the car is a clear winner then it doesn't matter were its from, but it the car is competetive or better, why not give it the review it deserves?
I for one, didn't think the Edmunds review was negative. You said yourself that you haven't even sat in the G6, let alone drove it, so how do you know what kind of review it "deserves"?
~alpha
electric steering or no electric steering still a big leap forward from the grand am.
Anyone in Canada here bought one yet? Wondering how much wiggle room there might be. He is also looking at a Altima 4 banger and maybe a clear out 04 Taurus (they are giving these away sadly).
At the same time, the Japanese are increasing their fleet sales.
Incentives for imports are rapidly nearing those offered by the domestics.
If your arguments for depreciation are accurate, the field is growing even.