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Comments
The insurance on my '04 Mazda 6s costs $120 per year less than on our '99 Jimmy, and the Mazda has higher collision and comprehensive deductables.
Insurance rates vary widely depending upon the company, the location, use of vehicle and the driver's age and history. Quotes from different companies can vary by thousands per year. Strange industry.
American cars, at leat used to be the safest cars in the world. Try crashing any 1970 pontiac with any fancy "mercedes/crumple zone/volvo" junk of today. You will see that all of the modern safety features work, but the thick steel and chrome of the older generation barely show a spot when crashing into the new generation. This is because back then cars werent designed to relent in a crash.
I would rather have no airbags, no crumple zones, and no onstar or any other trash safty garbadge they have out today, and have thicker steel and a meatier frame. I would prefer the person i'm crashing into have the crumple zones. It would save me a trip to the mechanic. Let him crumple, I got someplace to go.
As for todays cars, like the G6 and all that. I believe they are becomming similar in this. They have thinner steel and more airbags. I still think American cars do better in real world crashes, though, than the imports. I don't know about the G6 spesifically. I heard on the colorado/canyon forms that GM is using thinner steel in the colorado. Bad news.
Hey, recently another friend of mine crashed her pontiac GP (2000 or so) into a 1970's bonneville. The Grandma and her old car were unscaved. My firends car was nearly totalled. Luckily it was a sidways crash and my firend was in the drivers seat with no one else in the car.
Imagine if tank designers took safety like automakers? A tall sand dune would stop a tank!
I do not wish to start arguments, and lets please keep this to the G6, I'm just saying that in terms of saftey steel is more important than airbags, but is overlooked today.
Can't we all just get along and buy a G6?
Cross shopping a Mazda3 with a GTO? Strange.
"I would rather have no airbags, no crumple zones, and no onstar or any other trash safty garbadge they have out today, and have thicker steel and a meatier frame."
Good luck with that.
"I still think American cars do better in real world crashes, though, than the imports."
And your thoughts are based on what? Do you study automobile crashes? Or is this just what you "think"?
There are discussions on the News & Views board where much of the off-topic commentary here is very appropriate.
Thanks.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7675&sid=17- - - 3&n=156
My personal car experience with domestics and imports over 30 years is a draw. Owned Subaru, Toyota and Volvo verses Chevy,Dodge, Ford, GMC, Pontiac. Most reliable = tie; 82 El Camino & 89 Pontiac Sunbird. Worst = 86 Grand Am; most niggling 98 Volvo. The Subaru and Toyota were no better than the domestics, but always had more expensive parts.
I was looking for something fun to drive. Although they are extremely different, I found them both fun and somewhat unique.
I would have looked at a G6 as well but without a manual (now) I was not interested.
G6 will be a best seller assuming quality stays up. Given what I have seen in the Malibu, I have little doubt.
I bought a Mazda 6s with the same reservations you have (interior size, plastic metal dash). My appraisal of the midsize class is virtually identical to yours.
I believe the G6 has a chance to be a real player in this segment,
once it proves itself. It is a car I really wanted to test, especially since I have a GM Card with earnings I couldn't use on the Mazda. I waited three months for it but I couldn't keep my old car running safely any longer without making major expenditures.
Since the G6 is based on the Saab/Malibu platform, a lot of the fears about a first-year GM product may be alleviated, although I'm not sure I would have taken the chance. It is difficult for me to buy a GM sedan without significant rebates, because chances are those rebates are going to show up at some point and the first group of G6 buyers may feel like they've overpaid.
meaning it will ride a bit tautly and tighter handling. The GT also get ABS, adj pedal, Monsoon stereo... so the extra $ is probably worth it if you were going to add most of those to a base G6.
http://www.pontiac.com/specs/specs_content_files/specs_viewall.js- p?brand=g6
The Altima came out in MY 02 and it sold VERY well, even though it had a cheap [non-permissible content removed] interior and a rough ride.
It sold better than ANY other Altima had before and it became VERY competitive to the Accord and Camry.
As a matter of fact I read somewhere that if you take away the Accord Coupe's sales, the Altima sells almost as much as the Accord sedan...but I am sure that a bulk of Altima sales come from the fleets.
Can the G6 do the same thing? I believe so. And if it doesn't I still think it is a respectable car with nice styling and features..the interior is NOT class leading, but overall, it seems to be a VAST improvement over the Grand Am
And as we all should know, the Grand Am was the best selling Compact car in its class...so I don't expect the G6 to be any different in sales...hell it should SALE BETTER
Also, 1487, As far as the Altima and Accord being the best...I have to disagree
The Accord and Mazda6 are the best IMO..
The Altima and Camry fall somewhere in between. As a matter of fact, from what I have seen, the Altima is really no better than the G6 IMO.
What class was the Grand Am in? The Civic was the best selling compact and the Camry the best selling mid-size. Where did the Grand AM fit into that and what was considered it's competition?
OT I know but I will say this ... I was more impressed with the G6 than I was with the 05 Altima we looked at. The Altima interior just turns me off. I think it's the driving position and the wide expanse of dash on the passenger side.
According to many articles cars like the Civic, Corolla and Sentra are considered Subcompact
While the Grand Am, Passat and even Mazda6 are consider Compact.
Then the Accord, Camry and Altima are considered the Midsizers...
I don't really agree with that but m Consumer Guide Magazine breaks them down that way and so do others..
So by that theory (which could be wrong)
The best selling Subcompact was the Civic, The best selling compact car was the Grand Am and the best selling midsizer was the Camry
I do remember seeing Pontiac advertising this at one time or another.
Also, the Accord was considered Compact back in the 80s and late 90s until the 1998 model debuted. The Accord was never really a "Midsize" sedan until 98. The thing I don't understand is that the Accord is considered a midsize today, yet I have seen MANY magazines say the 6 is a compact but the Accord isn't much bigger than the 6.
The Accord is one of the "smaller" midsizers though.
Personally, I see anything bigger than the Current Civic or Corolla is midsize
A co-worker of mine has a 2004 Malibu (the G6's cousin) and so far she has had no problems in 6 months. She paid $16000 or so after the rebates and her husband's GM loyalty rebate. Not a bad deal for a mid-size car.
If I can get a GTP G6 with the 6-speed manual for somewhere around $20,000 it would be a good enough deal to make me at least test drive one. The buy-out for my Accord is $13,000 at the end of the lease so that will be what I am comparing possible replacements to. But at the time my Accord lease ends the next generation Accord will be out as competition for the G6, plus a redesigned Camry, and probably a redesigned Mazda6 and Altima.
I don't think hard core Toyota, Honda and Nissan fans probably won't be won over but those shopping around will definitely give the G6 a good look.
You are correct, though, that at some point many Camcord owners will at least consider the G6 if its build quality proves comparable.
I said that the G6 is a tremendous step up from those cars and they will sell like hotcakes to THAT buyer. However, the CamCord crowd is going to be harder to win over.
"Besides, there are some people who will acknowledge they like a car like the G6 better than a ubiquitous accord or camry but just refuse to give a domestic car a chance."
I am not one of those people. The G6 is nice enough that I would at least drive one if the price was right and the manual transmission does materialize. It would have to be significantly cheaper than the competition though. My buy-out on my 04 Accord will be $13,000 at the end of the lease. A new G6 would be an option if I could get a GTP 6-speed with sunroof, XM, and side curtains for $19,000. Anything more than that and I would probably just buy an Accord EX V6 6-speed or buy my Accord at the end of the lease term.
"I personally do not see a problem with the G6's interior considering it starts at $21K"
The problem is that the Accord has a better interior and it starts at $16,000. AC or not it makes you feel like you paid more. It's not just materials and finish, it's the overall design of the interior that makes the Accord's interior better IMO.
Power Adjustible Pedals
Manual Fore-Aft Adjustment
Ratcheting Lumbar
Power Driver's Height
Height Adjustible Seat Belts
Power Adjustible Outside Mirrors
And you couldn't find a comfortable driving position with out power tilt seat base? And you can find more in a $15,000 car?
I also saw my first SMART car on the weekend. What a silly car, 2 seats and space for 3 bags of groceries. Better off with a AVEO. I would not want to get hit by a truck in that thing either, I don't care how good the tests are!
The interior was impressive in interior space. The black leather seats were comfy and the leather seemed of high quality. The rear leg room was most impressive. The rear door panels were very basic and not very original. The dash chrome-looking dials were nice but the center console was so plain. I did like the solid dash cover hiding the airbag and the air conditioning vent controls. These added a higher look of quality to the car compared to the GT1.
However, the door lock control being on the window sill is so inconvenient especially when you want to cancel the auto door lock while still having the car in drive. Also, the steering wheel coming out of the Malibu was cheap looking and the new tilt wheel feature while offering the telescoping feature makes using the tilt feature for getting out of car or changing driving angle while in motion very annoying and I think dangerous.
The radio controls on the steering wheel seem to be less versatile than the GT1 and are now combined with the cruise control. It seems a step in the wrong direction.
Overall, I have no great desire to drop my very nicely functioning GT1 ( especially after dropping $2500+ in maintenance) for the somewhat higher quality looking and feeling G6. Also, the price is way over the top. You can get a Cadillac CTS with rear drive and the great 3.6 V6 for a few thousand more.
Maybe, after I see more on the road my interest will peak more and rebates are certainly going to follow.
Jeweled Instumentation
Jeweled Vents
17" Wheels 200hp Standard
C'mon...
And, you know the CTS with the 3.6 is like 34K at least. SO if the G6 you saw was 27, then its like 7 thousand more. Its a totally different car.
I like the CTS more, but you cannot compare the two. The closest in price will be the GTP with the 3.9L, to the base cts with a 2.8, the CTS would only make 210hp in that trim, so its your choice, you could get all pontiac with everything, or be seen driving a cadillac.
Thats a tough one if you ask me!
They defenetly took some shots out, saying ABS don't come standard, but not saying that they are standard on the other trim levels.
Thats not bieng fair and balanced edmunds, common you can do better than that.
They said the interrior was ok but cheap, I have never sat in one so i don't know. But when Many people feel the interrior is the strong point of this car its wierd that edmunds would say its cheap... I know im going to be bashed for saying that.
The reader ultimatly goes away not interested in the g6... well, IMO. This is because they just took so many shots at it, and didn't mention the other engine choices that will soon be avaiable, and the coup and convertable is included in the well... omission.
The wheel of the G6 actually looks a big small to me, i saw a g6 in person and well... but hey, since i didn't sit in it i guess the ball is in there court untill someone who bought or at least drove in one says otherwise.
I do think they will sell alot of them despite Edmunds and a few other journalists. The review did have its highlights, but it just seemed a bit negative for such a new and big deal car.
Tilt and Telescoping Steering Wheel
Power Adjustible Pedals
Manual Fore-Aft Adjustment
Ratcheting Lumbar
Power Driver's Height
Height Adjustible Seat Belts
Power Adjustible Outside Mirrors
It's a given these days that most cars have a tilt steering wheel, manual fore-aft adjustment on the seat, and height-adjustable seat belts. The base G6 doesn't have power anything on the seat that's standard, though. You have to pay for the height adjustment. Go sit in a base $12K Elantra or a base $17K Sonata and you'll see more knobs to allow you to fine-tune the seat cushion angle and height. I'm glad GM has made a telescoping steering wheel standard and adjustable pedals available on the G6, but you think they could have stuck a knob or two on the side of the seat in the base model to keep me from feeling like I'm sinking into the seat at a weird angle when I sit down (even after adjusting the angle of the seatback).
My issue with the base G6 had to do with the seat, not with the other factors affecting the driving position. I apologize if this wasn't really made clear in that first post.
They are automotive critics because they CRITIQUE!
Some of your points betray your clear bias towards this vehicle. Ex- Edmunds stated that GM chose not to make ABS standard. THAT IS NOT a shot at the car. ABS isnt standard. That is a fact. Its optional on base trim lines, and standard only on higher priced trim lines (GT, GTP).
Other engine choices that will soon be available? Arent the first avialabilities of the 3.9L V6 as well as the 4 cylinder going to be in the summer of next year? Thats not so soon.
And what do you mean by "The wheel of the G6 actually looks a big small to me, i saw a g6 in person and well...but hey, since i didn't sit in it i guess the ball is in there court untill someone who bought or at least drove in one says otherwise."?
You're knocking edmunds for not being Fox News, and meanwhile, some of your points border on incomprehensible.
Personally, I hope edmunds continues to call it like they see it, whether we all disagree with it or not. I do not feel edmunds.com reviews are the best available, but I dont recall every paying to read one, nor am I forced to read them. And there are plenty of other sources to consult, which most serious buyers do. (Hint: Car and Driver's preview of the G6 was perhaps even less flattering.)
~alpha
Interesting comments about the steering. I thought it was fine on my test, but perhaps they are not all built the same? He said one car he drove was better than the other.
If there were more fair on this review (as they are on other reviews, ie CTS-V) they would have said "ABS isn't standard on the base trim, but is is on the others."
Then they start to mention safety, and how women who value saftey would not like the missing ABS... I think thats BS, i bet the majority of G6's sold will have the ABS installed, and the small price difference between the base and GT is so negligable that the majority of buyers who can afford a base can probably afford an extra 2K or so for the base GT.
I have seen other reviews, such as Car and Driver, which seems to be a more favorable impression, when they did atack the car they didn't do any of these abs cheap shots.
Edmunds is free, and most of the time it is beter and fairer than most other reviewers. and BTW, C&D and R&T are also free online, the info just comes out after the issius are printed and sold.
The G6 is a much better car and Edmunds seems to give it credit for, as I remember they were wild about the Grand Prix in there first review, they knocked it at the full test.
I assumed they would at least do the same with the G6 but no, "lets kill the car now, way to many people know what it is and we need to keep them buying imports and outsourcing jobs."
The G6 is very competetive, alot more and many people gave it credit for, but now that we see what it is, not to point that out denotes bias.
I'd rather keep the jobs, and the managment here. Like I said many times before, if the car is a clear winner then it doesn't matter were its from, but it the car is competetive or better, why not give it the review it deserves?
I for one, didn't think the Edmunds review was negative. You said yourself that you haven't even sat in the G6, let alone drove it, so how do you know what kind of review it "deserves"?
~alpha
electric steering or no electric steering still a big leap forward from the grand am.
Anyone in Canada here bought one yet? Wondering how much wiggle room there might be. He is also looking at a Altima 4 banger and maybe a clear out 04 Taurus (they are giving these away sadly).
At the same time, the Japanese are increasing their fleet sales.
Incentives for imports are rapidly nearing those offered by the domestics.
If your arguments for depreciation are accurate, the field is growing even.