G6 previews from Motor Trend, Automobile and Car and Driver do indeed suggest that the OHC engines are more refined.
I'm sure if you took that survey most people wouldn't know the difference between OHC and OHV engines but i suspect they would notice the difference between them in their characteristics.
now come on admit it, you would love to have the G6 available with the 3.6L OHC engine.
I think OHV engines are just fine. I love my 3800 and I think the OHC this is very over rated. I have had both and in the end I don't care much. Just give me a good car.
are you saying the malibu and GP aren't discounted more than that the cars you mentioned? aren't the rebates in addition to the thousands you're able to negotiate off the sticker price from the dealer?
just wondering because some GM people point out the value of these cars because you can get them for thousands less than comparable accords and altimas even though the sticker prices are similar. whose right?
i agree that it's a buyer's market for everyone. and i can see how mazda would have trouble selling the mazda 6 (especially the 4 cylinders) when the mazda 3 though smaller is actually more upscale.
fair enough. the gas mileage from the 3.5L is very impressive to boot.
but since pontiac is the performance division and the G6 GTP will be available with a 6 speed manual it would make more sense to me to use the 3.6L which is more suited to rev happy aggressive driving.
the overall theme from the early reviews i have read is that the G6 is a huge improvement over the grand am but is still not a pace setter in its segment.
looks like GM is starting to make some very good cars just not the very best.
i do like the outside styling of the car. i noticed that GM went to the trouble of making turn able outside mirrors (upscale touch) but left them with unfinished black plastic like the malibu (cheap).
I think the interior of the G6 is nice but a little busy. The materials are decent though and that is a big positive for GM.
If I had to replace my Intrigue today I would likely give up the OHCs for a G6. The 3.6L LaCrosse is ok, but it's just not sporty enough. Perhaps if I saw and drove one my mind would change.
When someone comes up to you and says, "for the price of a loaded G6 i can get a 3.5L Altima with 250 hp, Xenon headlamps, and a navigation system, along with a four year warrenty as upposed to 3" what do you say to them?
The G6 is awsome, but this is the subject of car debates and anyone young enough to party who owns a G6 would need something to defend his purchase and some bragging rights. Are there any? I want this car to succeed, will it?
This car looks good and seems to be getting better with more reviews, unlike some that judge it unfairly. I would like to know from a dealers prespective how this all plays out...
Based on exterior looks along I would go G6. The Altima with it's clear plastic looking tail lights is ugly IMO. A buddy of mine bought an Accord (no looker either) instead of an Altima for that reason too.
"Nissan's New Vehicle Limited Warranty includes 36 month/36,000 mile coverage, and 5 year/60,000 mile limited powertrain coverage."
My mistake. Thats good, at least the warranty is as good. Car and Driver said the G6 interrior is one of GM's best, but they basically came down and said it still lags behind "janapese competition" because it looks too much like the Vibe... I dunno, you guys be the judge...
G6
Vibe
Also, would anyone please tell me why its the cheaper one (Vibe) that has the in-dash Navigation system???
G6 should have Nav as an option. I think the interior is pretty good and as well with the Vibe.
I wish you could get the G6 with the 3.5 with a manual. A "sporty" car should offer one. I would think the 5-spd used in the Saab 9-3 and the Red Line ION would be able to handle the 3.5.
has NAV optional because its a Toyota. If you look at the two photos, you can see that the Vibe's electroluminescent instrumentation is actually more white than red, and the center stack is free of the warm lighting as well.
Those interior's are very similar. I still think the class of the mid-size segment lies with the Accord and Passat. But the G6 is a good effort from GM compared to the 99-04 Grand Am.
They have some really nice styling and everything. I even got a brochure on the G6.
The styling is very clean and not cluttered or two junking. I actually think it looks better than my Altima.
The interior was a BIG improvement over the Grand Am, but when I got into the car, my foot barely touched the bottom of the center console, and the whole thing moved....I mean it MOVED.
To me, the Materials are compabale with the Altima and Mazda6, but not quite the Accord or Passat.
It's a nice car though. May me think about trading the Alti....
GM issues many press releses about engine and accessories around the time of the aftermarket show (SEMA) in Vegas. Think it comes up the first of November. Could/Should be lots on engine related info then.
Overpriced? I think my Accord was a baragin for $22,000. In fact, I think the Accord is a better deal at $22,000 than a G6 at $17,000.
It's all in the refinement and technology. The G6 is a nice car, especially coming from GM, but it's not perfect. It has decent interior room but the materials are lacking. The HP looks OK on paper but it's trailing almost every other V6 in the class.
"Overpriced? I think my Accord was a baragin for $22,000. In fact, I think the Accord is a better deal at $22,000 than a G6 at $17,000."
So you've driven one, and are basing this on that experience?
The Accord not dull? Seriously now! Its an outstanding car, best in class overall, IMO, but exciting... I dont think so. Same thing for the Camry, except its even MORE dull in non-SE guise. Styling is subjective but the Accord to me really suffers with that droopy rear end. Same color turn signal lenses for this year make matters worse. And I think we should get fog lights at least on the EX to spruce up the fasica.
I haven't driven the G6. I made my comment about price based on a visit with a G6 at a local dealer. It's a nice car. But it's not a CamCord. It didn't excite me or give me that "I would love to walk up to this in the parking lot" feeling. My Accord does this and yes, to me, it's a hoot to drive with the 5-speed manual. Don't get me wrong the new RL is way more exciting to me than my Accord so I don't think the Accord is the best car on the planet. It's just the best one in it's class and better than a lot of cars that are even more expensive.
But this is not the place to discuss the Accord or Camry in comparison with the 6 and I'm sure our friendly host will be in shortly to remind us of this.
My point is that the G6 is a great car for GM but only a decent car compared to it's competition.
Lets wait and see what they do for the GTP with the 3.9L...
The engine will have DOD, everyware i have read about it, something stated GM was putting the technology in. Its about time, honda has this now on its DOHC's...
But with the engine, their could be a DUal exaust and there will be 18inch wheels. The G6 GTP, with incentives, should beat the competition if they execute it right... Also, meybe it will have a Nav system. The G6's can get pricey, over 30K even. The GP is getting a Nav for 2005 (2006?), why not the G6?
But if it is executed and priced right it shouldn't need incentives to sell. GM should realize they are the underdog and price it accordingly. If they do so they can avoid pricey incentives which will ruin the image of the G6.
But GM makes less money, on average per car, than toyota or honda. How do i know? Look at the profits vs revenues for both companies. GM barely makes a nickel selling cars, most is from the financial arm. THis is b/c of the extortion loving UAW and almost nothing else. Since GM's med bils are forced on it by the UAW, and b/c of them GM has les money to put into R & D.
But if GM makes incentives that vary from region to region, it means that cars are priced differently in different regions, and GM can squeaze the most out of each individual sale.
Its a pretty smart strategy, but I agree that if GM just spent more per car it would need less incentives. Tell the UAW to pitch in for healthcare and retirenment, then GM could stop this game.
The G6 in should sell well, incentives or not. It just seems years ahead of even the GP, untill it gets the Nav, of course
I am trying to decide what I am going to do with the 2005 Pontiac G6 I won on the Oprah Show. I am so excited that I won this car, but I am a mini-van Mom that can't do with out my seven seat mini-van. It's a cool car, GT model with leather and is fully loaded. Is there a private party market for a new Oprah G6?
I'm not surprised that the mags suggested OHVs arent as refined. They have been taking that position for years and they arent going to change now. As I said, no one has anything negative to say about the HEMI, but everyone has something to say about GM V6 OHV engines. Most people care about power and engine noise levels. As long as OHV engines operate quietly customers will be satisfied. I only care about power, not valves per cylinder. I want my next car to have 240hp+ and if an OHV engine can do that quietly and efficiently I am cool with that. If an OHV engine is essential to you than I guess the G6 isnt your car. If the G6 had the 3.6 it would only influence a handful of buyers, as I stated most buyers could care less. I have a pushrod engine in my Alero and it is quiet at idle and vibration free. I guess it doesnt make the sweet sounds of a Honda V6 but I'm not going to base a car decision on the sound of an engine at 6000rpm. My car rarely goes above 3000rom in daily driving.
If I read the press releases correctly, you must take delivery og the G6 through a Pontiac dealer near where you live. Perphas you could work a trade with the dealer for a new Pontiac SV6 van?
Accords are dull. Used to have one, have driven an 04 V6. Dull. Power is good but handling and looks are lacking.
G6 3.5L is surprisingly peppy, especially around town where you want it. 240hp 3.9L is on the way for those who "need" the power. 3.5L is also more refined than some people imply.
G6 isn't perfect but handling, cool features (auto start, pano roof ect.) and great looks will sell it well.
G6 isn't perfect but handling, cool features (auto start, pano roof ect.) and great looks will sell it well."
People who are used to Grand Ams or GM's of the past will probably flock to the G6. However, I do not feel that the G6 is good enough to steal the thunder of the top imports in the class. Only time will tell.
i went to the local dealer to check out the new g6 today. the salesman tells me, "yes we have 2. come out back with me and i will show you. they were just prepped." ok...i look at it, it isn't prepped yet tho. he goes to get the keys while i inspect the exterior for flaws, none found. he returns with no keys. "we can't show you the inside. it was shipped damaged and we aren't allowed to show it. we must return it to gm". i look inside and see a top portion of the gear shifter is missing. i pointed out the damage to the salesman. he asked me to return again later. i will but that's not good!!!
I think the G6 is perfectly competitive with the "top imports" and many reviewers seem to agree. It's not tops, but in terms of looks and value, I think it's very competitive.
rather trust GM's 3.5L than anything honda has to offer. I know its dervived from the 3800, which is like the most dependable in the business. And you know GM makes the worlds best transmissions. BMW uses GM transmissions in some of its cars. And check out how many ppl are bothered by honda and its transmission problems.
This belief that imports are better than our own products probably has its roots in folk lore.
My belief that imports are better than domestics is based on 34 years of car ownership and driving experience.
Case in point: my 99 GMC Jimmy has required approximately $2,500 in repairs (not counting routine maintenance)since its 3/36 warranty expired two years year ago. This is in addition to another $2,000 in repairs (head gasket went at 5,000 miles) covered under warranty. The truck only has 60K on it. From what I have read in other forums here, we have been fortunate.
ALL of my import vehicles (this includes 6 different vehicles from five different manufacturers over 23 years), total, did not cost me $2,000 in major repairs. That includes a Nissan Maxima I owned for nearly 13 years, a Toyota Celica I owned for eight years, a Mazda 626, a Mazda RX-7, a Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo and an Acura Integra.
I'm not bashing domestics; I'm citing experiences that I and family members have encountered.
We actually like the Jimmy quite a bit. It is a very easy vehicle to operate and has some excellent features. For the money, we consider it a good buy. But it is not, by any stretch, as dependable as my imports. Neither was my Pontiac Firebird or my three other domestic cars.
The domestics do seem to be improving. But, one reason I passed on the G6 is that I did not want to take a chance on buying one of GM's first-year models. Past history indicates that there will be various glitches to deal with.
Over 7years or 100,000 miles, repairs to a G6 would cost a total of just $395 more then repairs to a Altima or Accord.
(Based on Edmunds vendor Warranty Direct cost for a 7yr/100,000 mile Secure Care Plus extended service plan $0 deductible in Massachusetts for non-Nav equipped cars, non-phone equipped cars, $1,480 vs $1,085)
of mine had a toyota celica. It cost him almost $5,000 before he sold it away (don't remember what his next car was). He told me he was never buying a Toyota again.
All that the JD power studies tell you is the average car performance, of the people they polled. I see the real difference between foreign and domestics when they get into crashes. I was driving from boston during the summer and was the result of a mid-hyway crash between a crysler (concorde?) and a honda accord. The accord hit the rear of the crysler. The Cryslers rear bumper was knocked off somehow, but the front end of the accord was, literraly scrap. Good thing it was a wide hyway. Also, Domestics are consistantly amoung the top JDR performers. Im not saying they alwayse were better, im saying they are better now, for example:
The point is that all companies have bright and sour spots on JD Power. I'm not sure how the newer cars fair in crashes, but from what i have seen, in real world scenarios a domestic is a better bet.
Look, I do not want to veer off topic here. This is about the G6, which we will see should score quality points on its own right (if pontiac knows whats good for them) and it should sell well. Just look at the Malibu.
As for the engine, isn't the 3800 a derivative of the 3100 and 3400? Arent they all basically the same engine???
BTW, anyone seen a G6 in Black? Seems to look better than any other color IMO, can't wait to see it with appropriate-for-a-sport-sedan dual exhaust.
The only new car that we have ever purchased that turned out to be problematic was a 2000 Silverado. That's one out of 11 new cars in the last 6 years. Even if the G6 were just as reliable as the top imports it's lacking the "class" of the leaders. Most reviews agree with me when I say that the G6 is a nice car, it's just not going to steal anyone's thunder any time soon.
Ok, been reading some of the posts over the past day or two and just my thoughts on the car.
1. Great Look, undeniably a Pontiac, but also very fresh and clean. Best looking Pontiac in years.
2. I don't see anything wrong with 3500 engine as its base engine, my parents have had several 3100s (two Corsicas and a Buick Century) and they have all been decent all around performers. As long as the driver isn't rev happy it will give good performance and good gas mileage.
3. I will have to wait and see what the 3900 is going to be like, but I don't understand why GM just didn't place the 3.6 liter that is going into the LaCrosse into the G6? Perhaps they were worried of making the engine too common; but if they want to compete with the Hondas and Toyotas they have got to make excellent refined engines common.
4. The 4 speed automatic is in my mind the real weak spot. While it certainly is a good solid, reliable unit, it is also a 4 speed in a world dominated by 5 speed units and increasingly by 6 speeds. They should put a 6 speed automatic in the car as soon as possible. On the flip side the GTP getting a manual is a good thing (at least for me since that is my preferred gear box).
5. I think they should have a GT trim of the ecotec version of the car as well; coupled with a 5 speed manual and probably a fair bit lighter and better balanced it would allow the 4 cylinder version to be a fun little commuter with some pretensions of auto-cross anyway .
Still I think this is one of GMs best efforts in years (well outside of Cadillac and the Vette anyway); its certainly a much better looking vehicle than the current generation Malibu (which I personally think is one of GM's worst looking vehicles, the Aztec not excluded). I like the fact that they have added alot of features and options to the car (or will be adding) that can't be had on the Accord or Camry at any price (specifically the panoramic sunroof and the hard-top convertable). Will it be able to displace the Japanese from the Throne? Probably not, but it might get people buying Pontiacs again for their cars rather than their prices.
You can base opinions on personal anecdotal experiences (My friend's Toyota Celica was trash; I saw an accident between a domestic and an Accord and the domestic won) if you like. In fact, we all do.
But, you don't want to get into the "domestics are better than imports" as far as safety and crash results.
Volvo did safety 30 years ago when nobody but a few college professors thought about it. Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition.
GM isn't marketing the G6 as a five-star safety cocoon for the kiddies. This is the bread-and-butter, put the food on the table entry of Pontiac's lineup. Whether it has the jewels to pull in a couple hundred thousand sales a year, like the Grand Am, will be an interesting story.
The car looks good and it should run good. But stealing many sales from the imports? That's a tall order until the car proves to be bulletproof, like much of its competition. My guess is that it will pull more sales from the Grand Prix than it will from the Camcords.
When are these things going to hit the showrooms? It's almost November and you can barely find one.
You can base opinions on personal anecdotal experiences (My friend's Toyota Celica was trash; I saw an accident between a domestic and an Accord and the domestic won) if you like. In fact, we all do.
But, you don't want to get into the "domestics are better than imports" as far as safety and crash results.
Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition.
GM isn't marketing the G6 as a five-star safety cocoon for the kiddies. This is the bread-and-butter, put the food on the table entry of Pontiac's lineup. Whether it has the jewels to pull in a couple hundred thousand sales a year, like the Grand Am, will be an interesting story.
The car looks good and it should run good. But stealing many sales from the imports? That's a tall order until the car proves to be bulletproof, like much of its competition.
When are these things going to hit the showrooms? It's almost November and you can barely find one.
Having come from Hondas, I will tell anyone going back that compared to GM they are over priced and over hyped. My 3800 powered 2004 Grand Prix cost thousands less and drives just as well and I look better doing it.
Yes Honda resale is better, they cost more up front too. Yes they are statistically more reliable, but the difference is not great. Yes they are a bit more refined in some areas perhaps, but in the end I doubt I would go back. I just don't see the value in Hondas I used to 10 years ago and reading some of the Accord posts, it would seem quality on the new model has slipped.
Also, insurance for imports (even if they are made in North America) usually costs more.
When I was looking at new cars it was going to cost me as much to insure a new Mazda3 as it was for a new GTO. I got the GTO. Not for this reason, but it is a blast to drive.
Comments
I'm sure if you took that survey most people wouldn't know the difference between OHC and OHV engines but i suspect they would notice the difference between them in their characteristics.
now come on admit it, you would love to have the G6 available with the 3.6L OHC engine.
just wondering because some GM people point out the value of these cars because you can get them for thousands less than comparable accords and altimas even though the sticker prices are similar. whose right?
i agree that it's a buyer's market for everyone. and i can see how mazda would have trouble selling the mazda 6 (especially the 4 cylinders) when the mazda 3 though smaller is actually more upscale.
but since pontiac is the performance division and the G6 GTP will be available with a 6 speed manual it would make more sense to me to use the 3.6L which is more suited to rev happy aggressive driving.
looks like GM is starting to make some very good cars just not the very best.
i do like the outside styling of the car. i noticed that GM went to the trouble of making turn able outside mirrors (upscale touch) but left them with unfinished black plastic like the malibu (cheap).
if i could only live with the interior....
If I had to replace my Intrigue today I would likely give up the OHCs for a G6. The 3.6L LaCrosse is ok, but it's just not sporty enough. Perhaps if I saw and drove one my mind would change.
The G6 is awsome, but this is the subject of car debates and anyone young enough to party who owns a G6 would need something to defend his purchase and some bragging rights. Are there any? I want this car to succeed, will it?
This car looks good and seems to be getting better with more reviews, unlike some that judge it unfairly. I would like to know from a dealers prespective how this all plays out...
"Nissan's New Vehicle Limited Warranty includes 36 month/36,000 mile coverage, and 5 year/60,000 mile limited powertrain coverage."
My mistake. Thats good, at least the warranty is as good.
Car and Driver said the G6 interrior is one of GM's best, but they basically came down and said it still lags behind "janapese competition" because it looks too much like the Vibe...
I dunno, you guys be the judge...
G6
Vibe
Also, would anyone please tell me why its the cheaper one (Vibe) that has the in-dash Navigation system???
G6 should have Nav as an option. I think the interior is pretty good and as well with the Vibe.
I wish you could get the G6 with the 3.5 with a manual. A "sporty" car should offer one. I would think the 5-spd used in the Saab 9-3 and the Red Line ION would be able to handle the 3.5.
~alpha
They have some really nice styling and everything. I even got a brochure on the G6.
The styling is very clean and not cluttered or two junking. I actually think it looks better than my Altima.
The interior was a BIG improvement over the Grand Am, but when I got into the car, my foot barely touched the bottom of the center console, and the whole thing moved....I mean it MOVED.
To me, the Materials are compabale with the Altima and Mazda6, but not quite the Accord or Passat.
It's a nice car though. May me think about trading the Alti....
When I get my degree, I am going BACK to Honda...
Dull, over priced, common are words that come to mind.
The only Accord I would even consider is the new hybrid one, but that will likely sell for hundreds over stick for some time.
I'll defend the 3500 engine, though. You wouldn't know it was a pushrod if you weren't told.
-juice
Overpriced? I think my Accord was a baragin for $22,000. In fact, I think the Accord is a better deal at $22,000 than a G6 at $17,000.
It's all in the refinement and technology. The G6 is a nice car, especially coming from GM, but it's not perfect. It has decent interior room but the materials are lacking. The HP looks OK on paper but it's trailing almost every other V6 in the class.
So you've driven one, and are basing this on that experience?
The Accord not dull? Seriously now! Its an outstanding car, best in class overall, IMO, but exciting... I dont think so. Same thing for the Camry, except its even MORE dull in non-SE guise. Styling is subjective but the Accord to me really suffers with that droopy rear end. Same color turn signal lenses for this year make matters worse. And I think we should get fog lights at least on the EX to spruce up the fasica.
~alpha
But this is not the place to discuss the Accord or Camry in comparison with the 6 and I'm sure our friendly host will be in shortly to remind us of this.
My point is that the G6 is a great car for GM but only a decent car compared to it's competition.
The engine will have DOD, everyware i have read about it, something stated GM was putting the technology in. Its about time, honda has this now on its DOHC's...
But with the engine, their could be a DUal exaust and there will be 18inch wheels. The G6 GTP, with incentives, should beat the competition if they execute it right... Also, meybe it will have a Nav system. The G6's can get pricey, over 30K even. The GP is getting a Nav for 2005 (2006?), why not the G6?
But if GM makes incentives that vary from region to region, it means that cars are priced differently in different regions, and GM can squeaze the most out of each individual sale.
Its a pretty smart strategy, but I agree that if GM just spent more per car it would need less incentives. Tell the UAW to pitch in for healthcare and retirenment, then GM could stop this game.
The G6 in should sell well, incentives or not. It just seems years ahead of even the GP, untill it gets the Nav, of course
Hey GM, finish the deal and give it Xenons too!
please don't tell my boss what i said because i might not get a raise otherwise.
G6 3.5L is surprisingly peppy, especially around town where you want it. 240hp 3.9L is on the way for those who "need" the power. 3.5L is also more refined than some people imply.
G6 isn't perfect but handling, cool features (auto start, pano roof ect.) and great looks will sell it well.
People who are used to Grand Ams or GM's of the past will probably flock to the G6. However, I do not feel that the G6 is good enough to steal the thunder of the top imports in the class. Only time will tell.
A dealer will be eager to sell a more pricey van, I would think.
A friend of mine won a New Beetle but got a Jetta VR6.
-juice
And you know GM makes the worlds best transmissions. BMW uses GM transmissions in some of its cars. And check out how many ppl are bothered by honda and its transmission problems.
This belief that imports are better than our own products probably has its roots in folk lore.
... or in actual data such as JD Power Long Term Dependability Studies (after 3 and 5 years) and Consumer Reports reliability charts.
~alpha
Things are damaged in shipping all the time. That is why there is shipping insurance (Lloyds of London has been around for 500 years) and all that.
Are you saying you wanted the dealer to try and sell a damaged product?
As a matter of fact, I'd take the new G6 over the new Altima....
But I think Honda does the best job at building the overall best sedan. The only real downfall is the styling (which isn't that bad IMO)
but that G6 is SEXY....
My mother is about to buy a New Accord...makes me wish I had.
Dull, common and boring are fine with me...the Altima has some style, but it isn't all that people make them out to be.
Also, did anybody see the pics of the G6 GTP in Caranddriver Mag? Those rims look GOOD
Case in point: my 99 GMC Jimmy has required approximately $2,500 in repairs (not counting routine maintenance)since its 3/36 warranty expired two years year ago. This is in addition to another $2,000 in repairs (head gasket went at 5,000 miles) covered under warranty. The truck only has 60K on it. From what I have read in other forums here, we have been fortunate.
ALL of my import vehicles (this includes 6 different vehicles from five different manufacturers over 23 years), total, did not cost me $2,000 in major repairs. That includes a Nissan Maxima I owned for nearly 13 years, a Toyota Celica I owned for eight years, a Mazda 626, a Mazda RX-7, a Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo and an Acura Integra.
I'm not bashing domestics; I'm citing experiences that I and family members have encountered.
We actually like the Jimmy quite a bit. It is a very easy vehicle to operate and has some excellent features. For the money, we consider it a good buy. But it is not, by any stretch, as dependable as my imports. Neither was my Pontiac Firebird or my three other domestic cars.
The domestics do seem to be improving. But, one reason I passed on the G6 is that I did not want to take a chance on buying one of GM's first-year models. Past history indicates that there will be various glitches to deal with.
(Based on Edmunds vendor Warranty Direct cost for a 7yr/100,000 mile Secure Care Plus extended service plan $0 deductible in Massachusetts for non-Nav equipped cars, non-phone equipped cars, $1,480 vs $1,085)
All that the JD power studies tell you is the average car performance, of the people they polled. I see the real difference between foreign and domestics when they get into crashes. I was driving from boston during the summer and was the result of a mid-hyway crash between a crysler (concorde?) and a honda accord. The accord hit the rear of the crysler. The Cryslers rear bumper was knocked off somehow, but the front end of the accord was, literraly scrap.
Good thing it was a wide hyway.
Also, Domestics are consistantly amoung the top JDR performers.
Im not saying they alwayse were better, im saying they are better now, for example:
for cadillac
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004045
for lincoln in cusomer satisfaction
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/21/pf/autos/customer_satisfaction/
The point is that all companies have bright and sour spots on JD Power. I'm not sure how the newer cars fair in crashes, but from what i have seen, in real world scenarios a domestic is a better bet.
Look, I do not want to veer off topic here. This is about the G6, which we will see should score quality points on its own right (if pontiac knows whats good for them) and it should sell well. Just look at the Malibu.
As for the engine, isn't the 3800 a derivative of the 3100 and 3400? Arent they all basically the same engine???
BTW, anyone seen a G6 in Black? Seems to look better than any other color IMO, can't wait to see it with appropriate-for-a-sport-sedan dual exhaust.
No, what gave you that idea? The 3800 is an entirely different engine than those other two.
1. Great Look, undeniably a Pontiac, but also very fresh and clean. Best looking Pontiac in years.
2. I don't see anything wrong with 3500 engine as its base engine, my parents have had several 3100s (two Corsicas and a Buick Century) and they have all been decent all around performers. As long as the driver isn't rev happy it will give good performance and good gas mileage.
3. I will have to wait and see what the 3900 is going to be like, but I don't understand why GM just didn't place the 3.6 liter that is going into the LaCrosse into the G6? Perhaps they were worried of making the engine too common; but if they want to compete with the Hondas and Toyotas they have got to make excellent refined engines common.
4. The 4 speed automatic is in my mind the real weak spot. While it certainly is a good solid, reliable unit, it is also a 4 speed in a world dominated by 5 speed units and increasingly by 6 speeds. They should put a 6 speed automatic in the car as soon as possible. On the flip side the GTP getting a manual is a good thing (at least for me since that is my preferred gear box).
5. I think they should have a GT trim of the ecotec version of the car as well; coupled with a 5 speed manual and probably a fair bit lighter and better balanced it would allow the 4 cylinder version to be a fun little commuter with some pretensions of auto-cross anyway
Still I think this is one of GMs best efforts in years (well outside of Cadillac and the Vette anyway); its certainly a much better looking vehicle than the current generation Malibu (which I personally think is one of GM's worst looking vehicles, the Aztec not excluded). I like the fact that they have added alot of features and options to the car (or will be adding) that can't be had on the Accord or Camry at any price (specifically the panoramic sunroof and the hard-top convertable). Will it be able to displace the Japanese from the Throne? Probably not, but it might get people buying Pontiacs again for their cars rather than their prices.
But, you don't want to get into the "domestics are better than imports" as far as safety and crash results.
Volvo did safety 30 years ago when nobody but a few college professors thought about it. Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition.
GM isn't marketing the G6 as a five-star safety cocoon for the kiddies. This is the bread-and-butter, put the food on the table entry of Pontiac's lineup. Whether it has the jewels to pull in a couple hundred thousand sales a year, like the Grand Am, will be an interesting story.
The car looks good and it should run good. But stealing many sales from the imports? That's a tall order until the car proves to be bulletproof, like much of its competition. My guess is that it will pull more sales from the Grand Prix than it will from the Camcords.
When are these things going to hit the showrooms? It's almost November and you can barely find one.
But, you don't want to get into the "domestics are better than imports" as far as safety and crash results.
Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition.
GM isn't marketing the G6 as a five-star safety cocoon for the kiddies. This is the bread-and-butter, put the food on the table entry of Pontiac's lineup. Whether it has the jewels to pull in a couple hundred thousand sales a year, like the Grand Am, will be an interesting story.
The car looks good and it should run good. But stealing many sales from the imports? That's a tall order until the car proves to be bulletproof, like much of its competition.
When are these things going to hit the showrooms? It's almost November and you can barely find one.
Yes Honda resale is better, they cost more up front too. Yes they are statistically more reliable, but the difference is not great. Yes they are a bit more refined in some areas perhaps, but in the end I doubt I would go back. I just don't see the value in Hondas I used to 10 years ago and reading some of the Accord posts, it would seem quality on the new model has slipped.
When I was looking at new cars it was going to cost me as much to insure a new Mazda3 as it was for a new GTO. I got the GTO. Not for this reason, but it is a blast to drive.