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I'm sure if you took that survey most people wouldn't know the difference between OHC and OHV engines but i suspect they would notice the difference between them in their characteristics.
now come on admit it, you would love to have the G6 available with the 3.6L OHC engine.
just wondering because some GM people point out the value of these cars because you can get them for thousands less than comparable accords and altimas even though the sticker prices are similar. whose right?
i agree that it's a buyer's market for everyone. and i can see how mazda would have trouble selling the mazda 6 (especially the 4 cylinders) when the mazda 3 though smaller is actually more upscale.
but since pontiac is the performance division and the G6 GTP will be available with a 6 speed manual it would make more sense to me to use the 3.6L which is more suited to rev happy aggressive driving.
looks like GM is starting to make some very good cars just not the very best.
i do like the outside styling of the car. i noticed that GM went to the trouble of making turn able outside mirrors (upscale touch) but left them with unfinished black plastic like the malibu (cheap).
if i could only live with the interior....
If I had to replace my Intrigue today I would likely give up the OHCs for a G6. The 3.6L LaCrosse is ok, but it's just not sporty enough. Perhaps if I saw and drove one my mind would change.
The G6 is awsome, but this is the subject of car debates and anyone young enough to party who owns a G6 would need something to defend his purchase and some bragging rights. Are there any? I want this car to succeed, will it?
This car looks good and seems to be getting better with more reviews, unlike some that judge it unfairly. I would like to know from a dealers prespective how this all plays out...
"Nissan's New Vehicle Limited Warranty includes 36 month/36,000 mile coverage, and 5 year/60,000 mile limited powertrain coverage."
My mistake. Thats good, at least the warranty is as good.
Car and Driver said the G6 interrior is one of GM's best, but they basically came down and said it still lags behind "janapese competition" because it looks too much like the Vibe...
I dunno, you guys be the judge...
G6
Vibe
Also, would anyone please tell me why its the cheaper one (Vibe) that has the in-dash Navigation system???
G6 should have Nav as an option. I think the interior is pretty good and as well with the Vibe.
I wish you could get the G6 with the 3.5 with a manual. A "sporty" car should offer one. I would think the 5-spd used in the Saab 9-3 and the Red Line ION would be able to handle the 3.5.
~alpha
They have some really nice styling and everything. I even got a brochure on the G6.
The styling is very clean and not cluttered or two junking. I actually think it looks better than my Altima.
The interior was a BIG improvement over the Grand Am, but when I got into the car, my foot barely touched the bottom of the center console, and the whole thing moved....I mean it MOVED.
To me, the Materials are compabale with the Altima and Mazda6, but not quite the Accord or Passat.
It's a nice car though. May me think about trading the Alti....
When I get my degree, I am going BACK to Honda...
Dull, over priced, common are words that come to mind.
The only Accord I would even consider is the new hybrid one, but that will likely sell for hundreds over stick for some time.
I'll defend the 3500 engine, though. You wouldn't know it was a pushrod if you weren't told.
-juice
Overpriced? I think my Accord was a baragin for $22,000. In fact, I think the Accord is a better deal at $22,000 than a G6 at $17,000.
It's all in the refinement and technology. The G6 is a nice car, especially coming from GM, but it's not perfect. It has decent interior room but the materials are lacking. The HP looks OK on paper but it's trailing almost every other V6 in the class.
So you've driven one, and are basing this on that experience?
The Accord not dull? Seriously now! Its an outstanding car, best in class overall, IMO, but exciting... I dont think so. Same thing for the Camry, except its even MORE dull in non-SE guise. Styling is subjective but the Accord to me really suffers with that droopy rear end. Same color turn signal lenses for this year make matters worse. And I think we should get fog lights at least on the EX to spruce up the fasica.
~alpha
But this is not the place to discuss the Accord or Camry in comparison with the 6 and I'm sure our friendly host will be in shortly to remind us of this.
My point is that the G6 is a great car for GM but only a decent car compared to it's competition.
The engine will have DOD, everyware i have read about it, something stated GM was putting the technology in. Its about time, honda has this now on its DOHC's...
But with the engine, their could be a DUal exaust and there will be 18inch wheels. The G6 GTP, with incentives, should beat the competition if they execute it right... Also, meybe it will have a Nav system. The G6's can get pricey, over 30K even. The GP is getting a Nav for 2005 (2006?), why not the G6?
But if GM makes incentives that vary from region to region, it means that cars are priced differently in different regions, and GM can squeaze the most out of each individual sale.
Its a pretty smart strategy, but I agree that if GM just spent more per car it would need less incentives. Tell the UAW to pitch in for healthcare and retirenment, then GM could stop this game.
The G6 in should sell well, incentives or not. It just seems years ahead of even the GP, untill it gets the Nav, of course
Hey GM, finish the deal and give it Xenons too!
please don't tell my boss what i said because i might not get a raise otherwise.
G6 3.5L is surprisingly peppy, especially around town where you want it. 240hp 3.9L is on the way for those who "need" the power. 3.5L is also more refined than some people imply.
G6 isn't perfect but handling, cool features (auto start, pano roof ect.) and great looks will sell it well.
People who are used to Grand Ams or GM's of the past will probably flock to the G6. However, I do not feel that the G6 is good enough to steal the thunder of the top imports in the class. Only time will tell.
A dealer will be eager to sell a more pricey van, I would think.
A friend of mine won a New Beetle but got a Jetta VR6.
-juice
And you know GM makes the worlds best transmissions. BMW uses GM transmissions in some of its cars. And check out how many ppl are bothered by honda and its transmission problems.
This belief that imports are better than our own products probably has its roots in folk lore.
... or in actual data such as JD Power Long Term Dependability Studies (after 3 and 5 years) and Consumer Reports reliability charts.
~alpha
Things are damaged in shipping all the time. That is why there is shipping insurance (Lloyds of London has been around for 500 years) and all that.
Are you saying you wanted the dealer to try and sell a damaged product?
As a matter of fact, I'd take the new G6 over the new Altima....
But I think Honda does the best job at building the overall best sedan. The only real downfall is the styling (which isn't that bad IMO)
but that G6 is SEXY....
My mother is about to buy a New Accord...makes me wish I had.
Dull, common and boring are fine with me...the Altima has some style, but it isn't all that people make them out to be.
Also, did anybody see the pics of the G6 GTP in Caranddriver Mag? Those rims look GOOD
Case in point: my 99 GMC Jimmy has required approximately $2,500 in repairs (not counting routine maintenance)since its 3/36 warranty expired two years year ago. This is in addition to another $2,000 in repairs (head gasket went at 5,000 miles) covered under warranty. The truck only has 60K on it. From what I have read in other forums here, we have been fortunate.
ALL of my import vehicles (this includes 6 different vehicles from five different manufacturers over 23 years), total, did not cost me $2,000 in major repairs. That includes a Nissan Maxima I owned for nearly 13 years, a Toyota Celica I owned for eight years, a Mazda 626, a Mazda RX-7, a Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo and an Acura Integra.
I'm not bashing domestics; I'm citing experiences that I and family members have encountered.
We actually like the Jimmy quite a bit. It is a very easy vehicle to operate and has some excellent features. For the money, we consider it a good buy. But it is not, by any stretch, as dependable as my imports. Neither was my Pontiac Firebird or my three other domestic cars.
The domestics do seem to be improving. But, one reason I passed on the G6 is that I did not want to take a chance on buying one of GM's first-year models. Past history indicates that there will be various glitches to deal with.
(Based on Edmunds vendor Warranty Direct cost for a 7yr/100,000 mile Secure Care Plus extended service plan $0 deductible in Massachusetts for non-Nav equipped cars, non-phone equipped cars, $1,480 vs $1,085)
All that the JD power studies tell you is the average car performance, of the people they polled. I see the real difference between foreign and domestics when they get into crashes. I was driving from boston during the summer and was the result of a mid-hyway crash between a crysler (concorde?) and a honda accord. The accord hit the rear of the crysler. The Cryslers rear bumper was knocked off somehow, but the front end of the accord was, literraly scrap.
Good thing it was a wide hyway.
Also, Domestics are consistantly amoung the top JDR performers.
Im not saying they alwayse were better, im saying they are better now, for example:
for cadillac
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004045
for lincoln in cusomer satisfaction
http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/21/pf/autos/customer_satisfaction/
The point is that all companies have bright and sour spots on JD Power. I'm not sure how the newer cars fair in crashes, but from what i have seen, in real world scenarios a domestic is a better bet.
Look, I do not want to veer off topic here. This is about the G6, which we will see should score quality points on its own right (if pontiac knows whats good for them) and it should sell well. Just look at the Malibu.
As for the engine, isn't the 3800 a derivative of the 3100 and 3400? Arent they all basically the same engine???
BTW, anyone seen a G6 in Black? Seems to look better than any other color IMO, can't wait to see it with appropriate-for-a-sport-sedan dual exhaust.
No, what gave you that idea? The 3800 is an entirely different engine than those other two.
1. Great Look, undeniably a Pontiac, but also very fresh and clean. Best looking Pontiac in years.
2. I don't see anything wrong with 3500 engine as its base engine, my parents have had several 3100s (two Corsicas and a Buick Century) and they have all been decent all around performers. As long as the driver isn't rev happy it will give good performance and good gas mileage.
3. I will have to wait and see what the 3900 is going to be like, but I don't understand why GM just didn't place the 3.6 liter that is going into the LaCrosse into the G6? Perhaps they were worried of making the engine too common; but if they want to compete with the Hondas and Toyotas they have got to make excellent refined engines common.
4. The 4 speed automatic is in my mind the real weak spot. While it certainly is a good solid, reliable unit, it is also a 4 speed in a world dominated by 5 speed units and increasingly by 6 speeds. They should put a 6 speed automatic in the car as soon as possible. On the flip side the GTP getting a manual is a good thing (at least for me since that is my preferred gear box).
5. I think they should have a GT trim of the ecotec version of the car as well; coupled with a 5 speed manual and probably a fair bit lighter and better balanced it would allow the 4 cylinder version to be a fun little commuter with some pretensions of auto-cross anyway
Still I think this is one of GMs best efforts in years (well outside of Cadillac and the Vette anyway); its certainly a much better looking vehicle than the current generation Malibu (which I personally think is one of GM's worst looking vehicles, the Aztec not excluded). I like the fact that they have added alot of features and options to the car (or will be adding) that can't be had on the Accord or Camry at any price (specifically the panoramic sunroof and the hard-top convertable). Will it be able to displace the Japanese from the Throne? Probably not, but it might get people buying Pontiacs again for their cars rather than their prices.
But, you don't want to get into the "domestics are better than imports" as far as safety and crash results.
Volvo did safety 30 years ago when nobody but a few college professors thought about it. Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition.
GM isn't marketing the G6 as a five-star safety cocoon for the kiddies. This is the bread-and-butter, put the food on the table entry of Pontiac's lineup. Whether it has the jewels to pull in a couple hundred thousand sales a year, like the Grand Am, will be an interesting story.
The car looks good and it should run good. But stealing many sales from the imports? That's a tall order until the car proves to be bulletproof, like much of its competition. My guess is that it will pull more sales from the Grand Prix than it will from the Camcords.
When are these things going to hit the showrooms? It's almost November and you can barely find one.
But, you don't want to get into the "domestics are better than imports" as far as safety and crash results.
Mercedes pioneered most safety items (antilock brakes, crumple zones) found on today's cars. VWs have included side curtain airbags for several years on most of their cars. German-engineered cars are designed to operate at over 100 mph routinely. Japanese cars dominate the top 10 of Consumer Reports list of safest family sedans in the 2004 auto edition.
GM isn't marketing the G6 as a five-star safety cocoon for the kiddies. This is the bread-and-butter, put the food on the table entry of Pontiac's lineup. Whether it has the jewels to pull in a couple hundred thousand sales a year, like the Grand Am, will be an interesting story.
The car looks good and it should run good. But stealing many sales from the imports? That's a tall order until the car proves to be bulletproof, like much of its competition.
When are these things going to hit the showrooms? It's almost November and you can barely find one.
Yes Honda resale is better, they cost more up front too. Yes they are statistically more reliable, but the difference is not great. Yes they are a bit more refined in some areas perhaps, but in the end I doubt I would go back. I just don't see the value in Hondas I used to 10 years ago and reading some of the Accord posts, it would seem quality on the new model has slipped.
When I was looking at new cars it was going to cost me as much to insure a new Mazda3 as it was for a new GTO. I got the GTO. Not for this reason, but it is a blast to drive.