Chevy Malibu Maxx

wpbharry

Well, all things must come to an end. Took the old 'Bu in for a routine oil & filter change this morning and for the FIRST TIME IN 5 YEARS, thought I had nothing else to be done. The dealer now has the car for 3-4 days while they take half the engine apart due to an "intake coolant leak". I'd happened to mention a small loss of coolant. Thank GOD I have the extended warranty with a free loaner car. My car has 20K on it, and the tech happened to mention that nearly all 3.1s have or will have this problem. I'll bet the new 3.5 develops idiosyncrasies of its own... I've gone over the top.

I'd be a pure idiot to buy another Chevy after 2 disappointments in a row.

Salesman in the showroom said he expects a loaded sedan to come close to 25 with a loaded Maxx nearing 27. So there. And yes, they have prelim price lists.

Good luck to you all, you'll need it. It'll be an Accord for me in a year. I'm movin over to the Accord chat rooms...

ateixeira

Buying an early version of any car is a risk; the Accord is no exception.

Smart money is on a tried-and-true existing design with proven reliability scores across the board. Not any new models.

A good example was the new Civic, the first year reliability was only average. Same with the Altima, Camry, Legacy, and other asian v1.0 models.

Let them work out the bugs first.

-juice

dindak

Like I said before, neighbor had his 2 year old Accord transmission blow. Nothing is trouble free. Your car is 5 years old, and Accord will need a new timing belt after about 5-6 years. More $$ there.

I think you are Accord dream land.

maxx4me

A salesman said $27K??? I certainly put a lot of faith in salespersons. I know more than they do, and I know nothing. Two Chevy dealers couldn't even tell me a thing about the Maxx; in fact, I was educating them based on my internet research (auto show, GM site, etc). If the Maxx is $27k, hello Vibe!! But back to reality: when it comes in at $21k and I buy the Maxx, I'll be sure to buy an extended warranty. I have never owned an "American" car before, and will be sure to get one with the Maxx due to it being an Opel/GM and a brand new design.

ateixeira

Most dealer employees don't have half the knowledge of most Edmunds.com regulars. There are rare exceptions, of course. They may know more about the business, but not about the cars.

-juice

vcjumper

If it is that much might as well get a Forrester with the turbo engine and do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.

magnetophone

Here in London I've seen two or three Signums. They're very handsome and I believe if we settle for anything less we're duping ourselves. The pictures of the Maxx are downright ugly compared to the understated attractiveness of the Signum.

dindak

Well then get a Sigmum and stay in England. Then you won't have to worry.

regfootball

"and the tech happened to mention that nearly all 3.1s have or will have this problem"

can't really add much to that. straight from the expert.

yeah, and by the way timing belts are maintenance issues like belts and hoses. Intake manifolds popping off the block are not. Most engines are finally moving to timing chains anyways.

27k for a loaded Maxx? yeah, about what I expected. Give it a year and it will have a bunch of rebates to offset the absurd MSRP, and kill resale as well.

Signum is nicer than Maxx. And so is the 6 wagon. Wish they'd bring the 23Z Mazda6 wagon over here.....monster brake discs on that car. Like 15" or something.

Duratec is not an engine you can level much criticism on. It was reliable out of the gate (are you listening GM) when new and remains one of the tightest engines available in mainstream cars.

Well if Accord trannies are weak, then 400,000 buyers each year don't seem to care.........

BTW the Forester turbo does 0-60 in 5.3 (C/D)........WOW. Now if it wasn't so ugly. That's faster than some's beloved GTP, and that's with AWD and only 4 cylinders.

dindak

Honda is still using belts.

Popping is not happing to all cars, only some.

3.5L is not the 3.1L

Forester, has swooshes, you should love it!

ateixeira

I've heard of electrical issues with cars with the Duratec, but I guess that's the ECU, not the engine itself. Look at the stalling Tributes and Escapes.

-juice

magnetophone

I've seen a few Mazda6 wagons here, very stylish.

And dindak, I'd never buy such a big car in Europe. Don't be so snotty!

Kirstie_H

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regfootball

well at least thousands are not having to fork over hundreds for popped off manifolds on what was supposed to be bulletproof drivetrains.

swooshes on the forester arent great either. But at least its got hp. 5.3 0-60, and torque all over the bad, who cares if it has swooshes. Plus its a subaru so its dead on reliable.

dindak

Do you have any data to back up those repair numbers you use?

magnetophone : Don't be so sensitive. You could always buy before you leave and bring the car back to the states.

regfootball

oh geez, virtually every car topic where the car has a 3100 or 3800 3400 there's all sort of folks bringin it up.

there's web sites about it.

small town mechanics are proficient in fixing it.

all information I've seen on it tells me its a very common problem....what % does it affect? 20%? 40%? That's a lot of cars. I'd certainly bet its not 1%.

gmalltheway

that people have had problem with the engines but i bet it wasn't after one or two years. 6 to 7 years down the road cars have things that go wrong with them, including the engine. I suppose Ford and Chrysler engines and transmissions are perfect??? Well i know Chrysler transmissions are far from perfect and the 3.8L Ford puts in the Windstar ain't that great either.

dindak

No doubt it's an issue (maybe more than 1%), but no where near 20 or 40%.

You can't base your statement on # of posts you see because people come to these sites seeking info on their problems. Know lots of people with 3.1L / 3.4L motors and not 1 "pop".

ems1

From the what I was told at the dealership that repaired my 98 Venture intake manifold leak, They are fixing 4-5 per week. I don't know how many they sold but the problem is bad enough for GM to pay for the repair even though it is out of warrantee. That said, I would still consider another GM vehicle with a version of that engine. The intake manifold gaskets have been redesigned and there is some evidence that the Dexcool was causing the problem. GM is no longer using Dexcool. I like the low end torque of the engine and really don't care how the cams are driven or how many valves it has.

ateixeira

Keep in mind there are approximetly 10 billion GM V6s on the road. So even reading about 100 failures isn't necessarily statistically significant.

And noone is perfect. Ask VW about their ignition coils. Or Toyota about sludge. Or Honda about those auto trannies.

-juice

wpbharry

Well, I guess I'll just have to continue the Malibu thang. Took the old fart back to the dealer yesterday afternoon for the accelerator prob and it was a simple case of carbon build-up (squirt of you-know-what did it). Free of charge. No service write up at all. Guess 'cause I look like a possbile candidate for a new 'Vette in a few years, not only did the Sales Mgr. come out to see what the prob was, but the owner (her highness) did as well and we had a fun talk.

Honda can't top that.

regfootball

GM apologists in denial.......bye bye

gmalltheway

The MAlibu MAXX price is NOW on www.gmbuypower.com and it says the MSRP is $22,000 - $25,500.

gmalltheway

I don't understand is why you seem to point out the problems with the Chevy's, as if Ford doesn't have problems(HA HA) after reading your profile it seems that you don't own/ plan on owning a Malibu so why are you commenting on how bad they are, they are actually a great car. Also in post #429 looks like GM didn't jack up the price of the MAXX for 4 wheel disk brakes or rear skylight as you swore they would do.

maxx4me

thanks gmalltheway. I had trouble finding it at first, but I see where you got the data from. Since I will be buying the LS Maxx (I hate leather), I'm guessing my cost for the car with the DVD player, sunroof, and head curtain air bag options will cost me around $22,500. I get my cars for around $150 over dealer cost with my buying service. This will amount to $2k more than my AWD Vibe which I ordered before they were first shipped. A bit more than I had hoped, but worth the extra luxury and roominess.

gmalltheway

Even a fully loaded MAXX will be under $26,000 and thats not bad at all for everything your getting in a mid size wagon

jchan2

I just drove past the Chevy dealer this morning. A new shipment of 03 Malibus apparently just arrived. Why are they still shipping old Malibus out when the new ones have gone into production?

ateixeira

There's probably a few weeks delay built in to the supply chain. Plus people are always shopping for end of summer deals.

-juice

logic1

does the Chevy dealer do fleet sales?

GM will continue to sell the old Malibu as a fleet only vehicle at least for the next year.

maxx4me

yeah, I thought only rental companies were getting the current Malibu. Does the fact that the current model will be made for fleets keep them in the supply chain at the dealers right up until the last moment? That would imply that Chevy can simply sell off the unsold ones to rental companies rather than slash them to bargain bottom prices like we normally see when a brand new model replaces the old.

logic1

will keep the cars on the lot. Remember, fleet sales also include company delivery and sales vehicles and the like.

rthayer

GM has just entered into labor negotiations with
UAW and anticipating some possible production
interruptions has shipped a larger quantity of cars to be available in the event of stoppage.
(Automotive News) Now, the real question is this;
have you seen the lots at the dealers? They are
full of unsold 03s everywhere, every make. Who
do they think will buy all these that they have
accelerated into production?

maxx4me

geez, I hope the labor interuption won't delay the Maxx's production. I'm on my third roll of duct tape attempting to keep this lousy 626 together!!

jchan2

I hope that the excess amount of 2003 models mean big discounts for shoppers. (Even Honda is offering 2.9 APR on the redesigned Accord, and have you seen the offers by the Big 3?) Hey, keeping the 626 together with duct tape is quite a feat. Since when have you started using duct tape to hold together the 626?

maxx4me

he, he....ever since I had 15 things go wrong with it at once......oh, wait....that would mean the moment I drove it off the lot!! My previous "American" manufactured cars included the Renault Encore and Dodge Aspen. Both were a disaster. I choose not to buy "American" made cars, but with GM doing a great design job with my "Toyota" Vibe, I now am licking my chops over the Maxx. It passes all of my preliminary checks, and cannot wait for it to show up at the dealers.

dindak

$22K means about $30K CDN, not bad considering all the standard equipment. Probably get the usual 8-10% off in negotiating so you are looking at $27-28K.

The 03 Malibus are likely the last shipment as the 04s will be showing up in September. I don't think there is anything unusual about that. I'm sure the 04s will be trickling in also and some people on a budget may prefer to grab an old one for less $$.

3and14

I think the MAXX will end up selling only with the assistance of massive rebates and attractive financing. The Aztek comes to mind, but the MAXX has styling so bland it will never generate the same degree of ridicule, only apathy. 200 HP OHV V6 for a 25K plus auto in 2004? That hasn't been competitive with the Japanese since the last century.

As someone who has owned only GMs, including three Chevrolets, and who likes what appears to be relatively innovative and space efficient packaging the MAXX offers, I'd like to feel compelled to buy a MAXX. But at that price with that motor and that (non)styling, I'd feel like a chump. Damn GM for making me seriously consider an import for the first time ever.

regfootball

If GM offered a 3.2 litre version of the new 3.6 OHC caddy engine even without VVT (I believe the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra has this motor already in production), and 4 wheel discs, I would be willing to forgive its styling transgressions. A bonus would be to offer a special version with manual transmission that would be icing on the cake.

So why not just bring the vectra full line over as is with the Chevy interior and a bowtie in lieu of a lightning bolt and call it good? The GSi vectra in the yellow gold color with the 3.2 OHC motor and 5 speed (or auto for those who want it) and sign me up. I'd be visiting the Chevy dealer and as the Donnas say, I'd be 'check, check, checking it out".

As it is with its frumpy style and rehashed powerplant and no discs, well, it would have to take some tasty incentives to woo me. Big sunroof or not.

magnetophone

I just don't understand why they can't use the same engines as is found in the Signum. The 2.0T was very well-received in Car's last test. They could use this as a base engine.

What I never understood about the American market is that it's larger, yet in Europe, you can get any engine or configuration you want. Here, you're lucky to have 2 options. VW is the exception to this, and so are Chevy trucks.

magnetophone

regfootball, I got to see several Vectras a few weeks ago. I even was taxied in one. The car is very nice inside and out, but truth be told, it's closer to the size of a Dodge Stratus than a Honda Accord. why anyone would need a car larger than a Vectra, I don't know, but apparently millions of people in the heartland disagree.

dindak

3and14 : I disagree, the Maxx has many innovative features that will push sales. Fact of the matter is, it's not a super high volume car, it's more of a niche Malibu model.

Reg : Maxx has standard 4 wheel discs AND ABS. Styling is subjective, I like it better than it's Eurohatch cousin though the Euro sedan looks better.

maxx4me

Dindak is right. Thanks for inserting the facts. Nonetheless, I sure wish I had your problem folks. I can't fit in a damn thing built today (without buying some environmental disaster) and am in need of someone to cater to the average sized male. Is it asking too much to be comfy in a car? Chrysler doesn't think so. In fact, I believe that is why they sell any cars at all. All Chryslers are mechanic magnets, yet are styled wonderfully inside. That too will be the attraction of the Maxx. If you guys tell me that the 3.5 liter will be a terrible engine, I will run the other way. Until you say so, I think the Maxx looks very inviting. As for the looks, you've got to be kidding......If I want a babe mobile, I'll go buy some kind of sportster. Looks does not enter into the conversation when talking about versatility. That goes for the Aztek as well. It may be ugly, but it has a lot of fun things inside the cabin. The Maxx ain't no chick magnet; get over it.

magnetophone

I guess I just grew up with a different concept. I am an average sized guy and have no problems driving cars as small as a Ford Fiesta.

My Focus fits any lumber I need, fits several suitcases, or a coffee table. Anything larger and I would naturally hire a truck.

maxx4me

I just got back from talking with my service manager at Mazda. He has owned Chevy cars and trucks for the longest time. He had had little to no problems with them; I'm kinda glad to hear that, not knowing what to expect with the reliability of the Maxx. He also said that the 6 wagon is still a very long way off. He agreed that Mazda would have to do something pretty special after I told him the neat things the Maxx will have inside.

johnclineii

A very long way off?

Try Feb/March.

I'll wait.

Look at the Maxx, the 6 wagon/hatch, and even the Mazda3. Then decide.

dindak

Mazda 3 is way smaller. May as well throw in the Vibe / Matrix too then. Maxx will be the biggest car in the wagon crossover category, no doubt.

regfootball

"Looks does not enter into the conversation when talking about versatility"

sure, if you use the Aztek as your GM yardstick.

the 6 wagon is pretty snazzy for a wagon. Passat and Audi wagons as well as BMW wagons are pretty hot too.

dindak

"Passat and Audi wagons as well as BMW wagons are pretty hot too"

Ya sure if you can afford them.

I find it funny how you think people must work for or love GM just because they like the Aztek or any other GM vehicle you hate. Not everyone shares your views.

ateixeira

A4 and 3 series wagons are tiny. A WRX is about the same size and a much better performer for the price.

I saw the Maxx in NY, is it positively ENORMOUS inside compared to the A4 and 325. I'm sure the Maxx is much roomier than the 5 series actually.

Passat wagon looks good, but look at all their ignition coil issues, that made even GM engines seem reliable.

We also could not locate a 1.8T wagon with a manual tranny, they are hard to find. Sedans, sure, V6 wagons, sure, but those are pricey.

We ended up with a Legacy wagon, which is bigger than the A4/3 series and probably the most reliable vehicle mentioned so far.

-juice

magnetophone

The 5 wagon is pretty cavernous inside.

I think that the Vibe is a good sized car if you need versatility. It's ironic how the Vibe is patterned after the Renault Scenic in dimensions, size, everything.