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Comments
It is a good indicator to see if an engine runs out of breath after 50-60 mph. Which 'certain' engines tend to do.
Expect they'll have a full road test in the Nov. or Dec. issue after they get their hands on a regular production vehicle.
I expect C/D will have a preview drive in Oct. I'll also bet a big comparison test in either mag or both during the winter since the Galant is also all-new for '04. In C/Ds case, this time it'd be auto V6s since this year they did stick 4s.
Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. I now think the '03 Accord is rather handsome, and now that I know that side curtains are available on the '04 LX V-6 (weren't for '03), I'm leaning that way again. Basically, unless GM offers $4 grand on the new 'Bu (which they do on the '03, including a grand in Chevy owner loyalty), in addition to my usual haggling, it makes no economic sense to go with the 'Bu taking projected resale into account. The new 'Bu is already shaping up to be a rebate lovers dream, so resale value will tank again. If J.D. Power thinks it's ripe for rebates (see '04 forum), who am I to argue?
Reg: while your points about the engine have been right on the money, in DC, we can't even get our cars up to 25 mph (he...he...he)
You said it, not me. I cringed at the thought of you getting over-excited and buying one right out of the box when $1000 could well be offered 3 months after intro (but then I'm not duct-taping my car together, yet). I'm not planning on seeing $3000 until the end of the model year.
I'm sure I could swing a Maxx LT if you-know-who in the White House (don't get me started) vanished and if the stock market got out of it's "going nowhere funk". Time will tell.
While I agree that the Maxx is not a station wagon alternative, but a sedan alternative, both it and the Chrysler Pacifica are SUV alternatives (speaking of which, just finished MT and at the back there's an ad for the Matrix (Vibe) with its 53 cu ft of cargo capacity. I can't make heads or tails of how the Maxx - much larger - can only accomodate 22.8. Something doesn't jive. The roofline of the Maxx isn't that much more angled.) - hate those darn things - and unfortunately, the Pacifica is sitting on lots unsold. Chrysler now has huge rebates on that already. Can't get those soccer Moms out of their Escalades. God knows how they all afford gas. Probably refied the house for the 8th time.
Conceptually, the extended sedan of the Maxx is a good idea. I want to see how useful the features are. I also want to see how the Maxx ultimately compares to the Equinox and Mazda6 wagon. Hell, maybe the Mazda3 5 door or Saab 9-2 is ultimately where I end up in a year or so. The Mazda3 in pictures predicts a stunning interior for its class that has a very luxo-sport bent, chairlike seats ala Focus, and the new PZEV 4 cylinder. The Mazda3 and Mazda6 have a sporting bent, but I hope mazda does not end up getting the same rap as Pontiac, in fact they may have already. The 6 sport package can look tacky in some instances. The 3 is very sharp and tasteful and somewhat like a cross between a Vibe and z3 BMW. The 6 hatch wiuth cladding and wagon without cladding look alright. The Maxx has some strong competition.
Reg : None of the cars you mention are direct competitors though. Each is substantially different in some way (price, size ect).
for gas mileage is excellent. I can't think of
any other 6 cylinder rated that high. It makes
you wonder why the 2.2 ECOTEC rated at 34/24 is
not much better. If they put a 5 speed auto
on the Malibu with a taller 5th gear, you could
see 34/35 on the highway.
In my case I'd plan on using part of the $3K in earnings on my GM Card towards the warranty.
Maxx, definitely go for GMPP on the Maxx.
Harry
The 22.8 cu ft figure comes from Chevy's own pre-intro brochure #2, so it's Chevy that has misinformation. I can't figure it out (and Maxx, possibly more ammo to wait until you see it. I'll be seeing it in Miami in early Nov. at our int'l auto show). 22.8 won't get any SUV buyer to give it a 2nd glance. The numbers just don't add up.
Reg, the man with ESP. I've seen the new Mazda 3 (one of my best friends bought a Protege 5 this summer and I love it, except for the 4-cylinder bit) in pix from one of the overseas shows. It is handsome; good taste. But no V-6, no can do. The 9-2 has Saab dealers outraged that they'll have to pedal a Subie.
Maxx, you need lessons in negotiating. First, I'm not pleased with using a buying service, considering that you're a car nut like the rest of us. Second, the 626 is much newer than I thought, and doubt it's that bad. Me thinks the duct-tape issue is way overblown. Also think it might be appropriate to make a trip to DC this fall to help out a friend in need (more on that later). The $1800 quote on GMPP is just ridiculous. You must look like a sucker in waiting. Also, I do plan on taking a dig cam to the MIA Auto Show, considering that my sis has my real one in Africa until late Dec., so I'll be forced into a disposable digital Kodak (they work great, used one recently).
But, I still say the same thing. Calm down, the 626 will make it, let me get my 2 cents in in early Nov. after the Auto Show (maybe we can both drive one; no I'm not gay); perhaps a weekend in Miami?. I'm orig from up north ('85 and earlier); blood is kinda thin.
Hmmm.....
My offer to Maxx was that we drive the new Maxx either in his "backyard" or mine. Just being a bored dude. Read into it whatever you want; he knows better.
Watch the few first batches be pre-sold.
Also, is this 'new' (gut busted open from ROTFLMAO) engine still CAST IRON BLOCK or is it all aluminum? If its cast iron, then no thanks....like I really want another 100 pounds on the front end of my front drive car to mess up the handling.....oh wait, we'll just stiffen up the strut springs and screw up the ride and make it harsh.......only truck engines need cast iron blocks for durability these days...if they left it cast iron all it means is they were too cheap to make the motor from aluminum or too cheap to spend the time to redesign the block and manufacturing to make it in aluminum......
i.e. rehash, not a new engine.
Knowing GM, they maybe redesigned the 'soft' parts....pistons, camshafts, computer / engine management, fuel injection system, intake, etc. That stuff alone would constitute redesigning part of the motor perhaps you could claim. But there is no substantial evidence anywhere that suggests this motor is ALL NEW CLEAN SHEET FROM THE GROUND UP design.
We all know that GM has only one pattern for this engine block and has made every V-6 since 1980 from it. Why doesn't it wear out!!!
GM is obviously trying to trick us by using cast iron and those dang pushrods. Just change the block casting part number and the bore spacing by .001" and I'll be happy. And, of course, add 12 more valves and 3 more camshafts!
They need to make this car they way I want, or I will never stop whining.
durability
Honda has built millions of perfectly reliable aluminum alloy block motors that are no less reliable and actually are often more reliable than other iron block motors when used in car applications.
economically feasible
hardly, many GM mainstream vehicles are cursed with iron block pushrod motors. Yet, GM's pricing structure seldom reflects this 'economic feasibility'. Case in point, Regals and Grand Prixs are priced over 30k nowadays. Bonnevilles can approach 40 grand. Yet they still need to 'cut costs' and have iron block motors. Rather odd, considering the Cavalier, which can sell for below 9 grand, has an aluminum multivalve motor....just when you'd think they need to 'cut costs' on a 9,000 car. Of course, so many of that car's competitors can build them with alloy blocks and multivalve heads and even vvt and sell them for just as cheap or cheaper.
Of course the cheaper base Malibu will have the 'expensive to build' multivalve aluminum DOHC, but the more expensive Malibu has what, iron block and 'economically feasible' pushrod motor?
The other reason Chevy is relegated to less up to date engines is because some marketer at GM is convinced they need to have levels or engines and that low priced Chevys will under no way get sophisticated because it would encroach on Buick and Pontiacs turf. Even if it would improve the perception of Chevy's products and image, there's still some leftover fogey in GM marketing from the Alfred E Sloan days that says Chevy gets the table scraps.
LOL.....Honda seems to do fine with Honda and Acura both having access to up to date engine tech..........no need to restrict Honda from getting good stuff too, just because of 'marketing' reasons.....VW gets access to the same stuff Audi does.....and yet they still can maintain pricing stratification between the brands.
Engine, smegine. Until we drive one, what's to discuss?
You must get tricked easily. I don't see that they are advertising the 3.5L as anything it's not. Drove a GM 3.8L on the weekend and remembered how smooth it is. Who cares what it's made of, so long as it's peppy, reliable and efficient. 80% of car owners know nothing except 4 cyl or 6 cyl.
All practical considerations GM feels the prototype practical Chevrolet buyer wants. We will have to see what the market says.
I think the new 3500 is a bit more advanced.
We don't have to relive our youth.
Harry
I drove a brand new '74 Mustang II Mach I away from the graduation party. Snickers, I'm sure.
If you found out tomorrow that Windows XP (or Linux, or Mac OS, or whatever) was actually written in QBASIC on a 15-year-old computer, would you stop using it?
What counts is how the product performs, not how the performance is generated. For purposes of actually picking a car, it makes sense to consider the powertrain to be a "black box" and just see how it drives, research how reliable it is, check the fuel economy, etc. and then buy or don't buy based on those results. The reason why GM uses the newer tech on 4-cyl engines is irrelevant to the question at hand, which is, how well do the 6-cyl engines work?
As the saying goes, if it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid.
-Andrew L
And an iron block.
-juice
Boring week. Any news on if the production studs will be hung over next Monday? Sure they will, for job #1.
you don't get an emotional response from a computer the way you do the sound or feel of engine as is revs to the redline. Or how smooth it can feel at crusing speed.
"The reason why GM uses the newer tech on 4-cyl engines is irrelevant to the question at hand"
It absolutely is not. They reluctantly got dragged kicking and screaming into finally upgrading to a decent four cylinder engine which finally gives them a shred of credibility in that 4 cylinder arena. Yet GM continues to completely ignore the market for higher feature v6's and refuses to even offer them as an option in their mainstream bread and butter sedans. Currently the L300 as far as I can recall is the only GM bread and butter sedan that has an option of a high feature v6.
The 3100/3800 may please folks who's standards are of the 45th percentile, but A LOT of folks want more pizazz out of their car. More power, more revvs, more smoothness. Test drives by average folks reveal these things. Right now folks need to go to other manufacturers to get that. GM, the largest maker, flat out refuses to offer anything of worth to this group who buy lots of cars and spend money. GM gets no 'buzz' in the market from its current mainstream powertrains and certainly only receives lukewarm endorsements from the press as well. Cars like Malibu need to hit the market with a 'buzz' and the idea to the customer that the product really is new improved and changed. Look at the Altima, its sales have increased tremendously due to the personality infusion into that car. They brought in the strong powertrains and its helping them gain market share. Rebuilding the same motors over and over doesn't create the stir in the market that GM needs to increase market share. The 27% GM faithful will buy anything with a GM badge on it because the badge is all it takes with them to make a sale. Its time GM got off its BUTT and did SOMETHING in the mainstream segments to get part of the other 73% on board and away from IMPORT NAMEPLATES. PUSHROD MOTORS in the face of HONDAS AND TOYOTAS SELLING AT A RATE OF 400,000 a year each IS NOT GONNA DO THE TRICK.
The Malibu is a nice car. Fine....its NOT GONNA MAKE ANY DENT AGAINST THE COMPETITION until they can lay claim to having some cred in the powertrain arena relative to the competition that the buying public will believe as something besides marketing hype.....i.e. no changing pistons and manifolds and renaming it 'series 3'.
Sure Cadillac is on a roll, but its NOT GONNA STEM THE HONDA TOYOTA NISSAN TIDE.
GM can get 405hp out of a production small block pushrod v8, but the 3/4 size v6 in normally aspirated form of the same valvetrain can only muster a little over 200hp....if we say we are sticking to a pushrod design than lets apply the things we learn from the v8 engine to the v6 and get the performance level up.....Show me a 270hp+ normally aspirated v6 3800 in a production sedan for a reasonable price that is as good a runner as the corvette motor and that's when i will say, you guys are right it doesn't matter. I'll buy the first one off the line.
I do find it funny that you think that 27 or 28% of the population must be GM brain washed loyalists to buy their cars. I laughed out loud when I read that.