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Comments
-juice
Other than the 4-wheel discs being standard on the LT sedan, I also noticed that the V-6 is now an option on the base sedan.
Of more note to the Maxx discussion, I now have 2 more questions answered that arose when I read the blurb in the 9/03 Automobile mag. They talked about wood-grain trim, but I'd only seen silver. Turns out that the beige interior has mud-colored wood-grain (thought it was passe) and the grey interior has silver trim. Exactly what Honda did with the '03 Accord.
Also, I find the front end of the car much more appealing on certain colors. Can live with it on silver, but hate it on medium grey, red, black, and dark blue (sorry, maxx). The darker colors seem to attract more attention to those damn ugly headlights.
Harry
A bit off the subject, but not that far. As I sat in gridlock this afternoon on car-dealer-row, good thing I don't have ready cash for a new car, 'cause it would have been all over really fast. In front of the Pontiac dealership (not a big fan of Pontiacs), on a pedestal, sat a gorgeous Grand Prix GTP (sure the sticker was $31 ish) in a burnt orange metallic. No, no, don't think Nissan Maxima and Murano; this is a knockout. Anyone else seen it?? The color sells the car. Bet it didn't last the day. Definitely something you don't see every day. Wish the Maxx had that color available.
Please say hello to my new daughter, Rachael. 3 weeks early.
Maxx LT 27 grand, just as I thought. 4 wheel discs on the sedan? Nice surprise. Why would I pay 27 thousand for a Malibu or any Chevy for that matter when I can get a Saab 9-3 for that?
The Malibu could stand to have an uplevel engine as an option, one that is 'high tech' one that the tech buffs and import intenders will go for and boost the image and real performance of the car....as an option. Needs to be there in a 27 thousand dollar car.
By the way, my daughter already has learned how to talk. Know what her first words to me were?
"Daddy, pushrods suck".
Babies rock, pushrods suck!
Knew you'd like the post about the 245hp. Right up your alley, but then the Maxx LT would clear $30, and I can barely swing $25. In your situation, bet you can barely swing $20, new baby and all...
The color I'm in love with is called "Fusion Orange Metallic" and it's also on the CTS (but haven't seen a CTS in it yet).
Harry
Silver Green Metallic has me intrigued as well. Few mos. ago, neighbor traded in her '96 Camry on a Kia Sedona EX minivan in a pea green metallic with beige metallic lower. Nearly hurled when I saw it, but the color's grown on me (until she rear-ended a retiree 2 weeks later; Hyundais and Kias have the A/C way up front and that always gets crunched right away). Whatever the case, I won't be caught dead with mud-colored wood-grain. My car has wood-grain, but it's past tacky these days. So, whatever it is, I guess I'm headed for the grey interior.
Later, Har
All the other competitors do..........
Anyone considering a loaded Malibu ought to just head to the Saab dealer and get a Saab 9-3 Linear anyways.
I think the base LT would be the car to get in sedan form. All the goodies you need. I would go for only a base Maxx though, the price creeps up too much otherwise. Base Maxx has most of the goodies I would want.
Reg : Congrats! Same name as my niece. We have a little girl also, they are the sweetest. Ours is definitely a "daddy's girl".
Push rods are less desirable, but they don't suck. From what I hear, the 3.5L is as good as the Camry mill.
reg: I HATE Saabs. Period. Would never buy any European car. [non-permissible content removed] or American only (possibly Korean in the future, but not yet). My opinion, others can be different. Also, Saabs are way pricier than the 'Bu and also only 4-cylinders (in the 9-3).
dindak: Agree with you 100% (how's that for a switch!). Sedan LT or Maxx LS. Pushrods are fine, although I don't believe Motor Trend's statement that the 3.5 is as good as the Camry's. That was only a first impression; we'll see what they say when they do a complete road test.
AOL 9.0 is dial-up. Web pages load much faster because 9.0 "stores" pages you visit some how. Not yet willing to compromise security with broadband, especially with all the MS security lapses.
Have a good day. Harry
I got rid of dial up a few months ago. I have a firewall and router set up for PC and XBOX. No worm hit us. If you protect yourself with virus protection and firewall, security is not an issue.
-juice
I'm pretty certain there's supposed to be an SS version of the Maxx (and presumeably the sedan too) in the '05 model year. I'd think that version would be the one to get one of GMs new DOHC motors. We shall see.
I'm in the camp with those that have no problem with a pushrod V6. Other than having an Impala as a company car a couple years back, all my experience has been with DOHC/Turbocharged motors. Particularly in a family fleet where one car has more modern technology, the idea of having something like the 3.8L pushrod in the other car is appealing. Hopefully, the 3.5L will prove as successful as the 3.8L where durability and cost-to-own is concerned. Mileage estimates for the 3.5L are outstanding...if they can make DOD work and achieve another 5 mpg on 87 octane, that will be another solid argument for continuing to use this engine. (I understand DOD with a OHCs is a tougher implementation).
I wouldn't get to bent out of shape about the 27K estimate for a fully loaded Maxx. Only in theory will the real purchace price overlap what you'd pay for something like the 9-3. In reality, I'd bet a totally loaded Maxx will soon out the door around $24-25 (assuming near invoice with a light rebate) and with a great financing deal. Whatever you feel about the whole rebate/resale deal (I tend to buy late model used and hold them for 5-6 years so resale hits mean little to me), this is the way GM has decided to compete long-term with their volume brands.
I know it's wishing against all conventions, but I really think it's a shame that they didn't make some concession to manual transmission lovers with this car. Imagine what the mileage of the 3.5L with a stick? Hopefully if the SS comes true, they'll offer a manual option. The Maxx is really growing on me.
First, I did speak a bit too soon. As reg knows, I do like the Passat, but not its reliability (it's average, like the old Malibu) or its price.
Here we go again with the SS wishful thinking. When I bought my '98 LS, rumors were swirling that in '99 or '00 there'd be an SS (or something similar). Glad I didn't wait. The only way an SS will actually be built is if the regular sedan and Maxx sell like hotcakes (possible but not very likely). Otherwise, Chevy won't do it. Once a model is introduced, they normally don't do much of anything to it (see post above re: Impala airbags). I hate to say it, but I think hopes for a Malibu or Maxx SS are VERY far-fetched. I know, the NY Auto Show gave hints of one, but IMO, we'll never see it. The only reason why we're seeing an Impala SS now is to distance the Impala a bit more from the Malibu and to get ready for the rear-wheel drive '06s.
I'm basing my gripes about the $27K price on an actual purchase price of $25K. Too much. $22 or $23 is fine but that means $2K - $3K in rebates.
I still need to see if the synthetic suede is workable. If not, no way an LT (sedan OR Maxx).
Harry
So here's my (possibly somewhat convoluted) theory on why the new Malibu prices are so high. It all started with that damn Passat. With VW's attempt to move the whole brand upmarket, over $30K went the V-6 Passat. Thinking it was just as good as a Passat, for '02, Toyota takes the high-end Camry over $30. Nissan brings out the new Altima and prices a loaded 3.5SE over $29 (yeah, what a load). For '03 Honda wisely prices the EX V-6 at $26, but takes that over $28 with nav. Then out comes Mazda's new 6, which fully loaded, clears $27. Now the new Glalant is on the way, and no doubt the GTS will clear $27. For '05, a new Passat, that in top-line trim will no doubt clear $35 (V-6, not the W8).
So, Chevy gets greedy, forgetting all the while that what a Malibu really competes with is the Sebring/Stratus, Sonata, Taurus (to some extent) and LOWER-level Altimas, 6s and Galants. The Camry, Accord and Passat are not in the same league. Might be after the new car establishes a great track record, but certainly not right now.
Should be an interesting weekend, especially if reg gets a hold of this posting.
Some times cars have rebates right from the beginning of the model year. I hate that - just lower the price to begin with.
Why? Because in MD you pay state tax on the total before the rebate. So if you get $5000 cash back, that is after you paid $250 to the state coffers (thank you very much says the Gov'nuh) for no good reason.
Lower the price by $5k. Or use dealer incentives, which don't get taxed, at least not in MD.
-juice
The only major point up for dispute, IMO, is who really created this overpriced mess. I am not all that willing to blame VW or Toyota (Toyota's prices are meaningless since you can easily get a Camry for below cost). I'm willing to place the blame on Nissan. Yeah, the 3.5 is a great engine, but how 'bout the rest of the (cheap) car? New computer chip anyone? Neighbor has a 2.5 SL and it's a mess. And all of the press raves about what a great value the Altima is. Yeah, right.
The Accord is a thorn in my side (not because of the '03s teething troubles). When I compare it (my "Plan B" by the way), I'm using the LX V-6 vs. the new Bu and not the EX V-6 (which is out of my price range). I'd give up a lot of goodies vs. the sedan or Maxx, but without Chevy rebates, it's clearly the better value.
Agree with above poster would love to see the Malibu offered with a stick.
For those who think the notion of a 4 cylinder not being desirable, go drive the Saab. I found it totally smooth, torquey and absolutely more fun and enjoyable than any GM v-6 I have driven except for the Shortstar. And go to carsdirect.com and you will find that Saab can be had for just over 24,000. At that money I would in no way be driving any pos chevy.
Point #2: reg, think this one might have missed you when you were tending to maternity room duties. Saab is nixing the Linear for '04. Adding the Vector between the Arc and Aero. So, bye, bye $24K Saabs.
Harry
And more on my feelings for Nissan. Saw an '04 Maxima SE today while getting gas. (I'm trying to be nice here, really). Black with mirror-tint windows. All it needed was the neon undercarriage lights and the $3-grand-each spinner wheels. ANYONE who'd buy a new way-overpriced Maxima instead of a G35 sedan must have an IQ below 100 (and I'll bet this dude did).
Harry
First, I doubt you'll have a problem with servicing the 3.5. GM is known for easy serviceability. My car is a snap but I get free oil changes, so why bother?
Second, (ha, ha) we don't have earthquakes here, only tornadoes and hurricanes (and one potential hurricane is out there right now).
As far as rebates, once again maxx, the reason why I'm following the GP closely is that it's a good indicator of what'll happen with the Bu and Maxx. GP (per Bob Lutz) was to be a great 3-series alternative. Obviously, fell short of the mark. However, you're not gonna get the cash back for at least the first 3 months, if not 6. Now, please do tell: is the Mazda 626 (aka Ford 626) really that bad? I think you're having a bit of fun with us. If you can wait until May, you might very well be pleasantly surprised (but then you'll owe me dinner at the Breakers and not Pollo Tropical!).
Tuckered out with this stuff for tonight. More tomorrow, I'm sure. Y'all have fun.
My Chevy dealer (for service) will be very close to my home. Nonetheless, paying money for an oil change seems sinful until I become too old to raise a toast to my new cyber friends at Edmunds. The old age can wait....here's toasting you all for sharing your GM expertese with me.
I don't know if the car is good or not, but lets wait and see before passing such harsh judgement. Lets also get the facts straight.
The volume model is expected to be the LS (both sedan and Maxx), not the base. In the first year of any new model, unless you specially order one, chances are what you'll find at the dealership are plenty of loaded LTs with a few loaded LSs and maybe 1 base car for show.
Case in point: Hondas' '03 Accord. The dealership closest to me here has over 120 EX V-6s still on the lot, 1 LX V-6, 38 EXs and 11 LXs. Not a single DX. And that's been the case all model year.
GM wants the Malibu to be the practical Epsilon. The Grand Am replacement will be the step up.
One thing about the CamCords is thatno matter what you pay, the car looks the same to everyone. GM hopes to find a market by offering a more upscale sporty Grand Am replacement for people paying more.
I'm not sure I understand the link between the Grand Am and Malibu, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. In my case I hate the red-lighting of the dash in Pontiacs, so I never considered a Grand Am in '98. Also, the new one was due for '99.
Also, it does seem that once the first year of a new model passes, then the lower-level trim lines seem to populate, except for the '02 Camry intro (haven't hardly ever seen an '02 or '03 Camry that's not a base LE 4-cylinder) The Altima as another case in point seemed to be overloaded with 3.5SEs in '02, but this year I see a LOT of 2.5Ss and 2.5SLs on the road, mostly driven by (well, forget that).
Harry
wsag26 : There is always overlap in model pricing. Higher end cars over lap next level base models. It's nothing new. Check out http://www.media.gm.com/ for Maxx pricing.
OK dindak, let's compromise. The $27K figure is for a loaded Maxx LT, which I doubt many of us will be buying. A realistic price for the Maxx LS, fairly well-optioned (more options than you want but not loaded) is $24400. I consider that reasonable (barely). Maxx LT $26000 (not reasonable). Sedan LT $24800 (pushin it). Sedan LS $22800 (OK).
My totally loaded '98 LS (sunroof, leather, CD/cassette, etc.)went for $20800 sticker, and over the years, gradually grew to $22090 for the '03. Not much of an increase. Granted, the new one has more to offer, I still think the jump to $25 is heinous. Mine had a $750 rebate, the '03 $3,000.
Harry
The skin will look different. But in many ways, it will be as close to the Malibu as a loaded Accord is to a 4 Cyl. Accord.
Obviously, nothing about the new Grand Am will make a difference this year, as it will not be available until about the same time next year.
dindak: Keep forgetting that you're the poor soul with the Intrigue (nice car, by the way, but you're homeless. And I complain about resale values. The nerve of me.). Don't forget about the Equinox if you really want a small SUV. Don't think you really need to be considering an ION, but actually, a loaded ION 3 is very close to a base '04 Malibu sedan in price. I see that the ION (new for '03 for the rest of you) has a $2,000 rebate right now, so if that doesn't give me extra points re: the new Malibu having a big rebate next summer, I don't know what does. At least the Malibu doesn't have the center instrument pod (yuk).
Harry