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Comments
Love my Intrigue, resale is no worse than any other GM sedan around here. I know it's worse in some areas. I won't be selling any time soon anyway. It runs well and I will run it for a total of 8 years most likely (5 more) where resale is not very important anymore.
Here's an example of a striking GM car:
http://www.km77.com/marcas/opel/astra_04/0primera/texto.asp
Why can't GM make this kind of car in America? It is perhaps that its core buying audience is too stupid?
Looks like a Golf. Yawn.
We all know you like to think the fact that you know a few people in Europe and have been there a few times (guess what, a lot of us here in Edmunds do and have) make you superior to your neighbors (and in your defense, if I lived in Texas I might be tempted to grasp at anything to make me seem different as well).
It doesn't. It is getting a little tiresome. It is getting a little sad. Say what you think about the car. Leave the insults about those who disagree for some European based I hate the US site.
Not a big fan of Opels, but the Vectra wagon is the prettiest Opel I've ever seen. Time will tell if Chevy blew it by not offering a wagon in addition to the sedan and Maxx. (Also think the European Accord (aka Acura TSX) wagon is handsome).
(Sorry, but it was a few months ago that I saw the Vectra wagon pix, and can't remember where. reg might remember).
dindak: I'm nearly convinced that when we both drive the new Maxx in Dec./Jan. we'll both agree that we've found it, and eventually join maxx (where is he?) in owning one. Assume you're shopping for a 2nd car. Great idea to run the Intrigue into the ground. You can get it serviced at any GM dealer and the 3.8 will last a good long time. My comment about the Equinox was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I do think it's the best-looking small SUV, but the Chinese-built 3.4 gives me some pause, as does the Honda 3.5 in the '04 VUE (never a good idea to mix 2 mfrs. products in one vehicle).
Harry
3.4L is made in China, but it's the same mill that they make in the U.S. as far as I can see. It a political thing that GM is doing by importing, nothing else. Nox and other small SUVs may get the nix is the insurance is too high though. Maxx insurance should be similar to the sedan if not the same.
For the heck of it, I just checked the Web sites of the 5 (yes, 5, typical South FL) Chevy dealers within 20 miles. Ironically, my dealer refers you to gmbuypower.com, but gmbuypower isn't yet set up to search for '04s. Another dealer claims to have a large inventory of '03 Malibu Classics. Didn't know such a thing existed. Think they're calling the base Classics, since the LSs are listed as LSs.
Anyway, don't see a single '04 listed for the 4 dealers that let you search directly. Probably because it's such a hike to KS. Bet the first day or 2 of production went to the press (for road tests) and other non-customer-intended things. But I also bet that dealers in the midwest might have some already.
Anybody see any listed near them? I'm not about to travel to the midwest, I'm just curious.
I was being sarcastic, but I seriously believe that GM has a form of institutionalized dumbing down of its products. Artificial price subsidies for rebates is a good example. Maybe it's time to expect better.
Speaking of the new Astra, take a look at pictures of the interior. Absolutely striking. GM knows how to build a stellar cockpit, yet due to the people who buy GM's in droves in America, we are not able to be treated to such luxury.
To wrap up the Mazda sidetrack, the 3 that looks like the Astra is the hatchback. Mazda is dumping the Protege 5-style "mini-wagon" in favor of a Golf-style 5-door. As far as the 6, we've already discussed, and come to the conclusion, that the 6 wagon won't affect the Maxx much. Don't think we ever considered that the 6 hatch might, however.
Harry
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- - _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02656807
Harry
GM either feels people will pass up compacts (but then why make the Cobalt?) for an economical wagon type vehicle, or it may think people are going to give up on bigger Utes.
logic : With gas prices on the rise and SUV insurance through the roof, I suspect people may be taking a second look at getting something else in the years to come. GM is smart to hedge it's bets on crossovers like the HHR, NOX, Maxx and whatever else. Don't be surprised if you see a hatchback version of the Cobalt also.
yes, for the Springer set and those who feel they don't deserve better than a Grand Am in a lot of cases.
"Artificial price subsidies for rebates is a good example. Maybe it's time to expect better......"
..........yeah......
"Speaking of the new Astra, take a look at pictures of the interior. Absolutely striking."
.......yeah........
"GM knows how to build a stellar cockpit, yet due to the people who buy GM's in droves in America, we are not able to be treated to such luxury."
GM figures to build its interiors and some of its powertrains to the lowest level that will sustain their now mediocre market share. They know that they can build ANYTHING with wheels and tires in the USA and will still be able to sell 27% market share and 'x' amount of vehicles produced. They can poop on a front wheel drive chassis and throw slumberland couches inside with fisher price plastic controls and dashes and doors and they will still make their numbers AS LONG AS THEY DANGLE THE REBATES out there. Its just too easy for them to build a B minus product rather than an A product because they have so many dealers and so much buy US sentiment, they can literally sell ANYTHING to the faithful and still make 'quota'.
There are signs of some of this antiquated pathetic business model within Detroit changing, but still we see lapses in 'logic' (sorry, had to use the word). Why not bring the Astra and Vectra to US in its same form with minimal changes if the overall result is so much better? The first battle cry we hear from the faithful is 'it will cost too much'. BS. Anything in volume can be made and sold cheaper. Duplicating efforts is actually more expensive. The Astra is all set to go designed and everything, yet Chevy will burn billions or millions making an all new car just for itself. Look at the money wasted on the new Ion......what a styling blunder that car is.
Real truth is that the faithful are scared that if GM 'upgrades' its cars (ala VW, etc) it will no longer have the blue collar look and feel to it that so many seem to be willing to put up with. Also, if the price goes up, even just a little, the faithful will be priced out of the opportunity to actually buy a new car periodically they fear, even though after resale hits it may actually cost you more to own an Intrigue or Impala vs. an Accord over time. Plus then, if you couldn't change your own oil, what would you spend half your Saturday wasting valuable time on?
1) Today's AutoWeek web site also has interesting news on 2 other fronts not related to this discussion, if you're interested. Picture and info about the Lancer wagon and a major delay in redesigning the Focus (and some stuff some of you will love about the US Focus vs. the Euro Focus). (I'm beginning to think Ford is dying fast. Also, now the Taurus will be around until '09 with minimal changes and the Futura might be delayed from '06 (good for the Malibu)). Check out autoweek.com.
2) After spending part of a day recently reading through the "problems" posts on the Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata and 6, you GM-bashers might be shocked. I think the new Malibu has a shot at blowing them all away in quality (also the interior of the new Bu is supposedly a giant leap up for GM so don't knock it until you see it in person). The others are all having some nasty stuff, worse than I ever had (initially). Makes me wonder why the resale values on the Malibu are so low (rebates, I imagine).
Now just imagine what a nicer car it could be if they actually put some of that money INTO the Focus!!!
;-)
Reg : You are in your glory when you spill your guts like that aren't you?
wpbharry : So far i have read the exterior fit and finish is very good and the interior is good but not great.
Launches: The CTS, ION (yes, that has a hideous interior, but am warming up to the exterior, except for those "seperate-color roofrails") and Grand Prix (despite the cloth, John, which I haven't seen) have all been trouble-free or nearly so. As I said yesterday, the [non-permissible content removed] are squirming, and their probs don't seem to be going away at 15K or even 25K miles. So, it's not just a case of shoddy initial quality.
As you all know, no rebates=no new Malibu. Really don't know what I'll do then. Thought the Accord was a good backup plan, but guess not.
GM's car launches have gone very well as of late. No major issues, certainly less issues than the new Accord. I think Honda is feeling the pressure of churning cars out quickly.
The Accord and Altima seem to be having the worst problems, but the 6 and Camry aren't great either. The 3 will be made in Japan, I assume, so that might fare better.
I am beginning to agree with you with US Ford's decline. While the Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Ka, SportKa, Fusion, etc. in Europe are all quality cars that sell well, in the US, there is not much to be proud of.
Just so we're all speaking the same language.
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04722757
Not that I'm a fan of the current car, but you can't ignore sales volume completely.
-juice
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6328
-juice
Harry
wpbharry : Keep in mind this is not likely a final version of the car and the styling details ect are likely to change not to mention the tires and the fact that parts of it are hidden. Won't get a good look until January.
It said standard v6. Hope its not a PUSHROD v6.
Honda seems to be able to regularly evolve and change and continually improve what it puts under the hood and it still exceeds performance and reliability of GM's 'tried and true'. They do this while maintaining equal or lower total ownership costs.