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Comments
wheel - I can see tha manufacturer's site for that type of info.
The worst from the Toronto Star is an old lady that doesn't know what she's talking about - Jill McIntosh. Laurence Yap is not that far behind and has a STRONG preference for any Honda product, even if other cars do what the Honda does but with more excitement.
But we must do with what we have.
Dinu
This is the person: http://auto.francite.com/can_eg/templatedivers.asp?auteur=55
This is a piece on a Mini - not one word about handling/cornering, just specs and rants about the interior.
http://auto.francite.com/can_eg/newEssaiRoutier.asp?NoPage=3&- TxtId=447&Table=Essais&intPage=2
There was one review a few months ago where she praised an AT Cavalier OR Accent (can't remeber which one) for hpw well it drove (ride quality only), but made no mention of its competitors, its interior, suspension design, etc...
Dinu
In GM's world, sure they want to bundle everything up into packages to jack the price up thousands. That's why we have 31k Grand Prixs.
The engine swap alone hardly adds anything to the price of the car. Certainly it is not responsible for adding 7 thousand of other crap you may not need. And for those who don't want it, then make it optional. Then you please everyone. Cheap pushrod motors for those who don't care about what's under the hood. An option for little cost to upgrade for those who do. Everybody's happy then.
GM JUST DOESN'T GET THIS IDEA.
I suspect the 3.6L Caddy engine would add at least $2000 over the 3.5L OHC. With that you would need to add beefed up suspension, brakes and likely a new transmission, add another $1000. A Euro dash (like the Opel) would probably add another $500-1000.Perhaps $7000 is exaggerated, but I would bet you would be looking at $4000 more for what you want. That puts you out of Chevy prices ranges and that is why GM scaled back it's NA version of this car.
Why is this so hard for you to understand??
The review above re-iterates the view that seems to be coming from the press that the new Bu is very competitive. Given it will carry list prices substantially less than Camcords, the new Bu is EXACTLY what a Chevy should be, a great value.
Thanks for posting the links, BTW.
why. an engine swap is just an engine swap. In your Intrigue dindak, they swapped the motors and changed nothing else. For what reason would changing an engine only require you to change the suspension and brakes? And if it did, why would it neccessarily cost more? By the end of the run, they were giving away Introggs for cheaper with the Shortstar, than they were selling them with the lawnmower 3800 when they started out. And did the Shortstar equipped Intrigue have the same tranny or different? And if it was different did the transmission itself neccessarily cost more? Maybe not, because it was codeveloped for more than one car.
And, if GM just spent a few hundred extra and offered it for the same deal as you get on the Taurus, like a thousand, maybe that's better to do that and then maybe they could avoid the three thousand dollar rebates that way, which are otherwise so inevitable with GM. Taking the Walmart cheapest approach isn't always the best.
Swap the freaking engine, offer it as an option. It doesn't hurt the GM faithful pushrod brigade one bit. The public doesn't care whether if Chevy has an equal motor to a Pontiac. They do care is, 'is the engine in a Chevy equal to the engine I can get in an Accord or Altima". GM is not competing with itself. It is competing with others.
"The four-banger feels light and playful and would be well suited to a manual transmission, though none is available. Steering is lighter than the Accord’s and less accurate"
"If you do chose to wind it out, the hollow baritone is far less pleasing than the sounds of the Accord or Altima engines but no more off putting than the gruff Camry V6"
and then the apology.....
"But enough of what is lacking in the Malibu. Let’s focus instead on its strengths"
Plenty of strengths.....sure, but enough to make the car place in the upper part of the crowded midsize sedan pack? Close, according to the article....but again, that's not Car and Driver or Road and Track.
Either that or they had old parts to use up.
I hope similar moves weren't made with the Malibu Maxx, but time will tell...
Look at the Altima. Fricking v6 is 'detuned' compared to the Z and Maxima but still is a monster and pulls a 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. Even the 4 cylinder in the Altima is a powerful sweetheart.
Honda, and Toyota and Nissan don't worry so much about how their cars compete within their own walls as GM does. H,T, and N seem more concerned with how to trump the competition. They don't limit their offerings based upon whether they would step on each others toes or not. I seriously think this attitude keeps GM from succeeding in actually increasing market share.
You think the same transmission, suspension and brakes from a 200hp engine can be used for a 260hp engine? Come on Reg!
I'm not saying GM can't put a lesser variant of the 3.6L in the Chevy but they don't have one right now. Do you honestly think any company would put their premier V6 engine in their lowest line of cars?
While I too would prefer a DOHC motor in there, all indications so far point to the fact that this is a VERY competitive revised OHC with class leading fuel economy.
I can't for the life of me figure you out.. you seem to hate this car and yet you hang out here with the same posts about the same thing all the time. If you love the Mazda wagon so much, buy it an be happy.
p.s. You can't compare the Intrigue to this either as it was a much more expensive car.
Amen, Dindak! The highly esteemed Mazda 6. By all accounts, it's a great car, notwithstanding Mazda's feeble efforts at putting together logical option packages (you have to get 200lbs of cladding and spoilers in order to select critical safety equipment or a sunroof?). But by Accord/Camry standards (you know, the same ones that the Malibu is being held up to again and again.....and again.) it's an utter sales failure. What is the percentage increase in 6 sales versus the 626? Has the 6 even cracked a double digit improvement over the model it replaced? Will the 6 even crack 100K units a year?
Mazda is far more desperate than Chevy for customers. Hopefully for them, they'll do better with people that post at Edmunds than they're doing with the other 15 million people considering a car purchace this year.
At the end of the day, what Car & Driver and Road and Track have to say isn't going to make a damn bit of difference. For a car like the Malibu, Consumer Reports opinion will be exponentially more important. I'd also suggest that the opinions of female buyers (as opposed to gear-head male Car & Driver subscribers...myself included) will matter more...speaking of which, here's another solid review. Enjoy!
http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosconsumer/0309/03/g01-260823.htm
Mazda 6 sales have been dismal. I'm actually surprised as I really like the 6. I would likely buy a 6 before I'd get a Camcord. Not sure what the quality has been like though?
Mazda 6 is a touch on the small size. I hope the Ford versions is a bit bigger or Ford will have a slow seller also.
I hate to say it, but as far as appearances go, I like the looks of the sedan better than the 'extended sedan', though those extra features of the Maxx very well could sway my buying judgement.
I also agree with the many people here that thought the General should've just rebadged the Signum and brought it to the US. It's perfectly understandable why they didn't though, since most Chevy buyers won't want to spend the extra $5-$10k that it would probably cost.
Pushrod vs. OHC.. I don't see the argument here. I've had several of each(the TB is an OHC engine), and while I can live with both, I can honestly say that in regular driving situations, I much prefer an engine with low to mid range grunt over something I have to wind out to get to the power (ie. my Corolla is that way, as was my parents' 199x Accord 4-banger). The GM OHV engines have a well-earned reputation for providing the sort of powerband that lots of Americans would like.
In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a short-lived (2 or 3 years?) attempt by GM to introduce a 24 valve Twin DOHC V6 in 3.4l size(Lumina Z34 had it, among other products), and due to introductory issues as well as customer feedback, it went the way of the dodo. If the 3.5l spawn of the 2.8 really has improved the NVH so much that it's better than the Toyota V6, I can't see how many people could object.
A little dig at reg here- Why on earth do you think you need your car to accelerate best between 60-100? The maximum legal speed limit anywhere in the US (to my knowledge, barring on a track) is 75, with most areas 65 on the highway. Even my 97 Bu had more than enough grunt up to that range. The comment I read pages back (yah, been reading like mad to catch up) about traffic moving 80-85 at times and needing to do 90 to pass was hilarious. If traffic's moving 90 (likely in a 75), cruise at 80 in the right hand lane and let the other guys get the tickets anyway! (These aren't meant to be sports cars. Get a vette otherwise. ;o) )
The 6 is about fun to drive and you'll be surprised at HIW they used the interior space so well!
Dinu
Another M6 fan:)
Dinu
http://www.media.gm.com/
$3000 would be great to see for the consumer though.
Dinu, I hate big vehicles too (I enjoy seeing them in the ditch after a snowstorm). But the 6 fitting a family comfortably in the rear?? Maybe small children, but not adults. I own a Vibe, and the rear seating comfort far outclasses the 6.
Bigger cars, bigger waist lines, bigger lines at the drive thru McDonalds...
Now when is this MAD MAXX out at dealerships?
I'm curious to see what plastics GM will use this time around.
Dinu
My guess is that the plastics will be somewhere between Legos and a TV set.
I am waiting to buy a 6 until the wagon comes out.. or if there's anything else nicer out at that time.
That was funny!
Dinu
Perhaps US and Canadian attitudes towards cars might have something to do with the fact that their countries are far larger and population densities far less than in Europe.
Appears in all your alleged travels abroad did you failed to notice European countries are smaller than the US and Canada, their roads and highways smaller, their interstates, to the extent they even have them, smaller and less extensive.
The reviews linked above say the Malibu interior is quite nice. The Maxx interior should be as well. I think the end of the year will show Magneto completely off base about reliability as well.
world's largest automaker doesn't have a capable and cost competitive one ready to go even after twenty plus years and all its competitors do.
"You can't compare the Intrigue to this either as it was a much more expensive car"
Yes, I can. Midsize class. Family sedan. Oh sure the Olds MSRP was higher. Way too high. Laughably high. But in the death days when the car was killed they were selling well below 20 grand.......
"you seem to hate this car"
no I don't, but I do hate a few things about it.
1) UGLY. Why spend the money to redesign the Vectra into the Malibu when its already designed and good looking? The front end is gross. The rear is clumsy. The profile is blocky.
2) Not an optional sporting / best in class competitive powertrain. There should be a an engine offered that is on par with Altima, Accord, etc. Where's the HEARTBEAT OF AMERICA????
3) Interior, let's wait and see how cheeseball the plastic is.
4) No stick available.
I don't hate the car. I hate the fact GM keeps making the same market mistakes OVER AND OVER.
"Why on earth do you think you need your car to accelerate best between 60-100?"
That's where the engine makes its best impression as to how quality a motor it is. Any lowball motor can do 0-30. In town, you never can max accelerate from a stoplight anyways. Always ten cars in front of you doddling. Too much traffic in town to do anything besides run with the pack. Never can open it up!
An engine that excels at 80mph is that much better at 60mph. Much less strained. Smoother. Quieter.
And whoa! Detroit News gives a good review to a CHEVY! DUH! Of course they will! Its Detroit! No way will they be biased to the home team!
"single button navy suit -- it never goes out of style. It's timeless"
Yeah, and folks think you are a rube if you are seen wearing one! Except at funerals!
BTW the Mazda 6 is plenty big inside. All the idiots who see the small outside and figure it automatically is small inside are clueless. If you sat in one you'd see its got 95% the room the Altima has. Its called EFFICIENT DESIGN.
In many older cities, the roads are indeed tiny and narrow. But the motorways are every bit as wide as American ones, save a smaller median, and many of the regular streets are just as wide as they'd be in an American city outside of the sun belt.
I've driven a few small cars as well as a few American-sized cars in Europe and the only huge difference is roundabouts and that there are less 4 and 6 lane roads.
magnetophone : Bigger is not necessarily better, but if you have kids and things you need to carry, bigger sure is more convenient sometimes. Everything is bigger in North America, especially distances so it makes sense that people generally want to me more comfortable.
Reg : You hate the car, admit it. You haven't even sat in the car but I know your mind is made up. Stop wasting your time and go get a 6.
logic : The big plus of the Maxx will be that back seat. I think that alone would push me to buy Maxx over the sedan. I'll get my wife to drive and my daughter and I can stretch out in the back seat and watch DVDs! Ahhh!