By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I do not recall seeing too many eight lane highways as you have around cities like Chicago and LA. I do not recall too many Europeans with commutes the same as people have in the US.
I do recall many people who rarely drove to work, school, shopping and most other day to day activities, kept cars mainly for vacations or weekend and evening excursions, and simply did not commute the way we did here.
And yes, I will ask you some questions .. which European country has a population density as low as the US and/or Canada? Which European country is as large as the US and/or Canada? Which European country has people with average daily commutes as long as those in the US and/or Canada? And finally, which Western European country, (Eastern these days as well) does not have a damn McDonalds?
Interestingly, the German's have an old saying: Andere Lande, andere leute. Meaning other lands other people. Or in other words expect people to act different in other places.
Which is why the Mazda6, designed primarily as a Euro car is not all that popular here, but the Maxx and Malibu have a chance.
The upright seating position is good for longer commutes as well, as studies show it is more comfortable to sit in an upright position.
I guess I'm a midget, at 5'9" and 135lbs...
As far as your little quiz, logic, I am going to have to guess Norway or Sweden for #1, for #2, Russia. As far as average daily commutes, the UK's is longer than America... it runs about 40 minutes in the car.
Many people, especially in suburban London (not zones 5-1) and in large German cities use the freeways to commute to work.
I don't think there's a single European country without a McDonald's except for Albania. But those are just guesses.
What part of London did you live in? If it's LSE, my guess is you lived near Charing Cross Road or in the City?
One can not compare Europe to NA, two different worlds. A car the size of a Maxx is automatically a near luxury car because of it's size alone.
I doubt there is anywhere near the number of British or Germans who commute to work via personal vehicles compared to NA people in similiar socioeconomic groups.
I stayed at Carr-Sanders Hall which was near the main campus, off Tottenham Road if I remember the name correctly. In my nine months there I used a car only once, when some of the students and I took an extended weekend trip to the Lake District. While the scenery there is comparable in beauty, the duration of the trip was no near as long as my undergraduate jaunts from UI to Colorado.
The Malibu and Mazda6 are fairly close in most interior dimensions with an important exception: The Malibu has more headroom both front and rear, meaning the occupants are sitting more upright. Lower seating positions are more uncomfortable for long distance drives. Of course this probably means the Malibu's wind drag will be higher than the Mazda's.
London is one of the world's largest cities. not many people in the central area use cars. But many (in fact, most) people outside of London use cars. Nearly every single member of my English side of the family has a car, except for my cousin who lives in Lewisham (SE11).
I find my Diamante to be a bit snug but still comfortable and 'right sized', except rear leg room is a bit tight. The SHO is larger and plenty spacious all around, save for head room. And ford corrected that in the Taurus for 2000.
So the 6, and consequently the Malibu, will be large enough to be practical. The current Malibu is pretty roomy.
As long as GM doesn't redo one of their fairly typical mistakes (like on the 2004 Grand Prix) and put in a much too low and uncomfortable back seat. Visions of Camaro, legs splayed to the side? Why? Back seat is too low! All the leg room doesn't matter! My father-in-law's Olds 88, the back seat is like sitting on a way too low bed pillow. Too low, no support. Doesn't matter one iota that the leg room is there. Its totally uncomfortable. My brother-in-laws SSE, at least the seat is firmer and sits a bit higher. The rear seat in my dad's Seville is low and a bit soft.
A 2000+ Taurus has a firm high seat and a bunch of head and leg room.
The Mazda6 is not too small. Its just fine.
reg: You drive a Diamante?! Break down and buy a LW300 Wagon. No Pushrods and GM incentives. Not too little either.
jchan : I didn't invent "Camcord", it's pretty widely used on these boards.
magneto : England ain't Europe and my cousins, uncles and aunts always comment on how big and luxurious cars are here in NA. They all drive small cars because they are affordable. to them and they are all very middle class. Only my uncle (a Swiss banker) drives a Mercedes.
Rather, I feel in larger, less dense Scandanavia, where people drive long distances for everything, they tend to want more comfortable cars, and get them if possible.
True, London is not like the rest of England. But doesn't the greater London area comprise nearly a third of the English population? I do not know this for certain, but recall hearing it said in the past.
It's not a 'racy engine' and in fact I would compare the character of the powertrain to be quite like a Camry. My wife drives the car and loves the quietness, smoothness, passing power, etc. I find it to be a bit dull for my tastes, yet much better than having to drive a GM with the 3100, 3400, or 3800.
And the car itself is long in the tooth and in need for a total redesign. The upcoming Galant, in fact, will have a better powertrain than the Diamante.
In any case, a 2002 Diamante with 10,000 miles on it was a much better ride for under 15 grand than any mid size GM product out there at that time. It certainly was a budget decision, not a decision made on pure want.
As for the Malibu and Maxx, I have been on record as saying I like the interior design. I really like the shape and layout of the gauge cluster and center stack. If GM gets the plastic ok, and has firm seats, I could probably like the car enough to buy it, even with less than I want under the hood......if the price is quite a bit less than the Mazda6.
As for the 6, in one fo the mags I got last night it said the Mazda6 sales are starting to take off and increased quite bit in the last month or two.
Given a preference, I would go Maxx over sedan, but both are kinda ugly on the outside so it doesn't matter. The rear seat and cargo area of the Maxx would win out.
In Sweden, lots of Volvos but like any brand, you can have cheap and decontented (like a soggy 3-door 340GL from 1985), or you can have a 960 land yacht.
Some countries, like Spain and Italy, tend to drive extremely tiny cars, probably due to geography and purchasing power. It really depends on the country. Cars Mondeo-sized or larger still account for a third of car sales in England, so the market is not dead yet.
Overall, I would say the average sized car is the Focus. This makes sense, since families are generally smaller, PEOPLE are generally smaller, and cars are used to travel less distances. This doesn't mean they drive around in 3-cylinder Fiat Unos.
Europe is much more diverse vs NA so it's really tuff making generalizations.
I tried to catch up on all of the posts here and over in the Malibu forum, but there are just too many.
Botton line is that unless I need to take my car in for service (hope not), I won't be near a Chevy dealer until my next oil change (mid to late Oct.) (and that's darn close to the Miami Auto Show). Unless I see one on the street, probably won't get up close and personal with a new 'Bu for over a month... Plus, gmbuypower and all of my dealer web sites don't show or allow searches on the '04 (gets that's because the official intro isn't here yet. Don't know when it is, but suspect late Sept.). The LAST thing I need right now is to waste time searching dealer showrooms, and if I were to luck out and find one, being harassed by a possibly overzealous salesman and having to deal with those implications.
PLEASE let us know 2 things, for sure: 1) how the 3500 V-6 drives, and 2) how the adjustable pedals are for someone 6' or taller. THANKS.
Over and out, Harry
Toyota: Quality, Quality, Quality and did I mention Quality?
Chevrolet: Value Cars with OK performance.
Saturn: Feel good about yourself! We're here to help!
Honda: Reasonably Sporty Performance with great value and quality.
Ford: Are they still making cars or has the 100 years celebration gone to their head?
Though the Cobalt will eventually be out, the civic has been out since 2000 and will probably be redesigned within a year of the cobalt arrival.
The cobalt should be quite superior to the cavalier and corolla seeing how its so much newer. Just like the Ion blew everyone away because it came out a little later and took a while for GM/Saturn to get it just right in replacing the S.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/amulay2003
Interior is typical GM - weird steering wheel, cheapo-looking plastic. Do they think that by adding a little "wood" it makes the car upscale? The seats seem to have little or no side material to help you stay planted while taking turns.
It's an improvement in styling over the current one and over a Cavalier, but it's no Mazda6/Altima/Accord.
Hope they gave you $5000 USD off and 0%/60mths.
Dinu
snaab : Thanx for the pix. Car looks great. I take it thats a production car?
The new head of interior design at GM is a woman who used to do the same jog at Renault, When she came to GM, she hired on the same company that supplier for Renault's interiors for the Malibu.
So the interior you see may be a typical Renault interior. It is hardly a typical GM interior.
Now about the Malibu's interior:
Seats: They're like the ION's - flat with no side bolsters. Hardly something to be proud of.
HVAC controls: A definite improvement, yes. As good as what you find in an Accord or Mazda6? GM's not there yet.
Sunroof: That's nice! But it's not like it's the only car that has one, so that's a wash.
Ok so GM hired an ex-Renault designer from what you're telling me. So let's blame it on Renault this time. Sure, why not? It's easier than spending a little more time or money to design a better interior.
Dinu
And why would someone choose the Bu over the competition?
Dinu
I suspect the Maxx will be wildly popular, but much depends on reliability and public perceptions of GM quality, not on what a few posters on the Edmunds board always think...
The current leg room in the cars you mention are pathetic. Only the Passat will be able to compete with the Maxx/Bu's leg room, and I don't believe the Passat has adjustable pedals (plus the driver's position of the Passat is so low to the ground, you feel like you are driving a go cart). Furthermore, the Bu/Maxx has a very healthy list of standard options. If you took out things like standard ABS and traction control and some other creature comforts GM is offering that their competion is not, it might just be priced like the SMALLER vehicles you mention. Give us 6-foot-nothing people a break. We are not giants, but are sick and tired of shoehorning ourselves into these poorly designed interiors which give more room to umbrellas and tire irons than to ME; the driver of the car!!
Have you sat in them?? Articles I have read all seem to say the seats are very good. You can't judge seats by pictures!
The 'Bu apparently will not have a perfomance varient. But the Grand AM replacement will be out same time next year. We need to see how well it performs.
As for the seats, I want bucket seats, not a single seat designed like a bench.
Anyways, I'm open minded when it comes to cars but once again the domestics haev nothing to offer that an import cannot beat. Too bad.
Dinu
jchan : Keep in mind, rental models are usually BASE cars.
jchan2: The seating is a bit low in the classic model, even with the leather seats that my 02 has but i think the 04 model has improved on that, the seat bottom isn't tilted like the classic, and they are much more comfortable, i was very happy (even more if i'd buy it)
Dinu
Judging by the pics? You CANNOT judge by the pics. May as well judge handling by the pics.