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Doesn't sound to me like it's really a manumatic at all. And maybe, just maybe, Chevy did it to save floor space by not having to have the shifter glide through 321??? Hmm....
I too am a bit frustrated with some of the junk on the new car that I know I'll be forced to buy if I decide to buy one (unless I order one and that's not gonna happen; don't plan that well). I really don't need remote start (in South Florida???), electronic traction control, automatic A/C (hate 'em), telescoping column, suede, XM, etc. This kind of stuff is what's inflating the bottom line of the car (AND it's where GM scores a big profit hit) since a lot of this stuff is in option packages with stuff I DO want.
actually might be dead on. The same console will be used in the Maxx, and for those folks wanting to spend a grand on the DVD, it gets attached to the back of the console and is rather thick.
"just put a freaking real manual tranny in the car and be done with it"
There are plenty of things I don't agree with you on Reg...but on this point, I concur 100%. In fact, it's my absolute number 1 bone to pick with domestic mid-size cars.
BTW...I've yet to see anything approaching a negative review of the Malibu so far. I finally got out to read the Automobile and Car & Driver "first drive" reviews and found them to be solidly positive. I'd link to them but since the reviews are in issues currently on the newsstand they probably won't be available online until next month.
I agree totally about the manual trans.If you are going to put a small 2.2 litre engine in the base car,and not offer a manual trans, you are possibly turning away people like me who think that small engines and manual transmissions go together.They upgraded the driving dynamics of the car,don't they want the drivers to buy.If I could not afford a V6 Malibu,(I can't) I don't know that I would want the 4cly without a manual.For a car that is supposed to be about wide market appeal that is bad. Everything else seems good to me.About the fake suede fabric,from what I know about fabric,if you are alright with the texture,it is probably one of the most durable and cleanable fabric types available.I hear the reviews about how well the Malibu drives,and how nice the 4cyl balances,I see myself downshifting for a corner in a Chevy midsize car. Why is that not possible in America.
1. That's to allow selecting the maximum gear the tranny can choose. Just like putting the shifter in 3/2/1 on the older Malibu. The new bu no longer has 3/2/1 on the floor as a result. wpbharry's probably on the right track with the space-saving idea as to why they did it (shifter doesn't have to have as much forward / back travel with only 4 notches on it now, vs. 6 or 7 on other cars).
2. Since there's no documentation hyping it as a feature, and since this was only an LS (midlevel equipment, normal cloth seats, etc.) in the showroom that I saw, I'm guessing it's just the standard design for the new Bu's transmission controls. (If it were a true manumatic, Chevy'd probably only offer it on the LT)
I also agree, a 5-speed manual should have been offered with the base car. People who MUST have a manual will not be Malibu shopping. That said, I don't have a clue how many people that might be.
thanks Jerry!! So there won't be an overdrive off button then as a result of the +/- button? The O/D off feature seems to be on so many cars these days.
"People who MUST have a manual will not be Malibu shopping."
I'm one of those people that after an AT Maxima and an AT Protege will only buy a MT in my next car (likely to be the Mazda3 or Mazda6) in 12mths from now.
On another hand, NA buyers don't like MTs so I can see why Chevy doesn't offer it. People that tend to love driving prefer imports to domestics and one of the reasons is that a 5spd is available on a Mazda6/Accord/etc...
With traffic all over the continent getting worse every year, the demand for auto boxes will only increase. Even Toyota sees that and dropped MTs from the Camry, Went to a Honda lot a few months ago and they had 20 auto Accords and zero manuals. Basically offered but not available.
Just located my copy of promo brochures 1 and 2, and both show the gearshift lever (both w/o the +/-) with "PRNDL" marked on the floor. So, so much for the space saving theory. But, I agree, they sure aren't hyping the feature.
Asked about the full brochure yesterday and it hasn't come in yet either (maybe they're packed in the first shipment of cars!). But those of us that rec'd promo brochure #1 last Feb. and #2 in June will undoubtedly receive a copy in the mail...
The manual trans wining is driving me nuts!!!! The same thing happened when the '97 came out. Chevy dropped the stick back when the Corsica replaced the Citation in the late 80s, for lack of demand, and I can't blame them for not offering one again. Heck, the Service Dept. at my dealership is snickering that Chevy is even offering the 4 cyl. on the new Malibu. Been there, done that. The '97-'99 (or '00, forget) had a 4 which no one bought, so it was discontinued. The 4 in the new car might sell a few but not much more; at the last moment they added the option of the V-6 to the base car. Why did they bother, especially with the new Cobalt a year (or less) away????
I've heard the same thing about the 2.4L Ecotech. Chevy says it's not "ready" yet, same thing with the smaller high feature engines. 145 HP is not going to cut it with the new 'Bu, so hopefully they can muster 160+ out of the larger motor. Even the Aerio has more HP than the base Malibu!
Also, since you seem to know so much about the Vectra, does that have a manual tranny? Just thought I would throw some more fuel in your fire... he he
I think the lack of manual transmissons available at certain car dealers is a result of the sales manager refusing to order them.Some of it due to manual trans takinng some profit out of the car.The dealers who do order some should do okay because some dealers will not order them. I have to be a little negative,this is not the sales manager that gives a care about what you may want in your car. Saturns Vue used the 2.2 litre with a manual trans and it was a great bone that GM threw people trying to get into that type of vehicle at a good price.I am not down on the malibu. I bet I would really like the 3.5L with the auto trans. However, if money was an issue,and it is I would love the 2.2 with manual trans. It is lighter it should handle great. It would lend a sporty feel.Maybe I have a pie in the sky veiw of Malibu, something for everyone.The world doesn't work that way.
because it deemed to be disruptive in nature. Please refer to the second paragraph of my last post #985. Feel free to email me if you have any further questions. Please do not address this with me here.
And let's get back to the subject of the Chevy Malibu Maxx. Thanks!
Thanks for correcting me on that one dindak. They caught it in the Malibu forum too.
As I recall, Old's mission before the bottom dropped out was also to snatch import intenders a la the Grand Am. Guess the overlap is what did Olds in.
I'll share a secret here. I really can't figure out the purpose of the Maxx. My hunch is that it'll give folks like me more choice and may also drop the average age of the Malibu buyer since young families will love it. BUT, I'm a bit hard-pressed to figure out what it really competes with.
Harry: why does everything have to be a one to one match for it to compete? I don't understand that arguement at all. The Maxx clearly competes with the Mazda 6 wagon, and the never to be seen Honda and Toyota wagon. Despite guys pumping up their chest over the 6, it has 4 wheels like the Maxx, it holds cargo like the Maxx, it will handle similar to the Maxx, and it won't hold a candle to the Maxx's standard features. I laugh when people try this zoom zoom logic on a car which will never see a rally track, nor go over 80 miles an hour on the average freeway... LIKE THE MAXX. Historically speaking, there is very little that is different about today's cars versus Henry Ford's Model T, so it is very difficult for me to do side by side comparisons. Simply find one that meets your needs, and drive it home...just like Henry Ford would have wanted it. Oh, for all you zoom zoomers: while you are driving solo in your new 6, I'll be driving my entire family very comfortably in my new Maxx, with my picnic table extended out the back, looking up at the stars through my new rear seat moon roof!! Zoom Zoom!
Any chance the Maxx will come with a totally different fabric patter than the Bu? Since you were correct about the rebate, I was hoping you could look into your crystal ball.
You should take a Mazda6 sedan in I4 5spd or AT V6 for a spin. Try 0-90, brake hard, go on ramps and try the same with the new Malibu sedan. Then tell us which one rode better, handles better, braked better and which one made you smile when you drove.
When the 6 Wagon comes out we can compare it to the MAXX.
no they don't because the Camry and Galant are way too reliable compared to anything Mazda could build. Dinu, why on earth would any one want to do what you said? The two cars are more the same than disimilar. you might as well get out your measuring tape and compare rivot size. Anyone looking at the Maxx is looking at versatility. The 6 wagon, the Passat wagon, and the Subaru lines all fit into that profile. If I buy the Maxx, it is money taken away from the other companies. That's what I call competition.
Does anyone really think that the Malibu tranny buttons are special? Just shift the tranny down from the shifter. Saving Space? Yes. Wasting my time? yes. Stick to the basics, please. No fancy space saving techniques. Just a regular old automatic, please.
I couldn't care less how the 6 compares to the Maxx. They are not made for the same things, Maxx is larger, more utilitarian and hopefully more refined in ride quality. If I want a sporty car, it's not going to be a hatch anyway.
1) Let's hope Revka's generosity takes some pressure off this forum, and please USE THE NEW FORUM for that "you-know-what" stuff!
2) The Maxx really doesn't compete with ANYTHING. It's a bit of a wagon alternative, but also a bit of a small SUV alternative. Chevy is bringing out the Equinox in the spring with most of the same features as the Maxx, so I'm really not sure it's much of an alternative. I'm glad the Maxx is coming, I just don't know why. The press will surely enlighten us in the months ahead. Europe is such a different market (gas prices in part), and I can see the need over there for the Signum, but time will tell if there's much of a market for the Maxx.
You know, depending on how well the Maxx is received by the press (expect very well), we just might be looking at Motor Trend's 2004 Car of the Year. Really. A totally new category right smack dab in the heart of the market. Works for me. I'll bet that's also why Chevy accelerated the intro of the Maxx to December, as MT's criteria for nomination requires the vehicle to be on sale by Jan 1st. Doubt we'll see many in showrooms before Feb., however. Expect the same slow ramp-up that we're seeing right now with the sedan. If the Maxx takes off, just watch Honda and Toyota snap-to.
3) maxx, yes, I'm cringing too, but I doubt the seat fabrics will be any different on the Maxx vs. the sedan. I DO think there's a bit of hope wit the gray being a bit more subdued. But, also, let me ask you this. Early reports DO indicate easy clean-up of the UltraLux suede. Hmmm. If you can wait until summer '04, if there's a $2-3 grand rebate on it, could you swing the LT? That one is something I'll be considering, and it DOES involve a lot of praying (that sales don't take off like a rocket).
Sorry to say, but my crystal ball clouds over on a lot of questions re: the Maxx. Fuggedaboutit when I ask it "Will the Maxx become the breakout hit of the '04 model year or will it bomb?".
Similarly on the issue of Maxx rebates. REMEMBER, just because I correctly predicted quick rebates on the sedan (but I'd really predicted January; rebates on the sedan were a given), that has NOTHING to do with the Maxx. My long-shot prediction would be nothing until June or July. Safe bet would be nothing until the '05s come in. Even safer bet would be never. I doubt GM will post any rebates on the Maxx until they have a good sense of sales volumes.
So, maxx, this means that if the sedan passes the pedal, underhood, and seat fabric tests (either in LS or LT form), then ditch the 626, buy something that you can recoup your investment in (and get you through the expected nasty winter), and wait. And wait some more. You won't be alone. dindak is waiting too, by the way.
I think the Maxx could be a big hit assuming it's marketed right and it is indeed as versatile as we all have been led to believe. The car is unique and has much potential which is why I'm interested in it as an alternative to a VUE or CR-V. I much prefer driving cars to SUVs.
In terms of incentives, there will be some out of the gate but with the economy improving and this being a new car, you won't likely see 0-60 type incentives any time soon.
I always said there would be incentives of some kind though I did think GM would wait a month or two before applying them given that's what they did with the GP.
Like I said, I can see $1000-1500, but that's about it for a while unless sales really suck.
I think the Maxx idea is great.They are offering rear seating comfort for passengers and hatch utility. I don't know how big the market is for people who want their utility in a car rather than Suv ar tall vehicle but here is their chance.This may be as good as it gets for car based utility.I am a fan of small wagons,but the US automakers don't seem to want to offer an estate (plain old wagon).Without a wagon offering I would prefer the Maax to a higher crossover or SUV.That said, models like Mitsubishi Lancer Wagon get larger, and could influence the utility car minded. I wonder how they will advertise the Maxx. Will they push the utility factor,when it seem they would rather you get an SUV for that,or just push rear seat comfort.What ever the case GM should do a straight wagon for some division.The Vibe offers good utility, but it's styling is a little extreme for me.
bpraxis: I think that the Maxx will look better in person. But, I do agree. When seen from some angles, it's pretty ugly. But from others (fortunately more of these) it's pretty handsome. Nothing can or will change the front end, so we all need to deal with it and move on. Might grow on us eventually.
aveman: Very well said. I'd actually consider the Lancer wagon if it had a more powerful engine (V6). Don't like US-made Mitsus, but that one's a [non-permissible content removed] and OK. Have had the sedan as a rental several times, and it's one of the few tolerable little cars.
I'm hoping they advertise the Maxx as the "anti-SUV" or something along those lines. Also curious as to how they'll advertise the sedan; we'll know very soon.
The only ad (other than the Ford F-150) for an '04 model that I've seen on TV so far is for the Suzuki Verona (aka Daewoo Leganza/yoohoo Daewoo) as the "anti-Camry". Good for a chuckle.
Not pushing Lancer wagon.Just making a point. If this were chess, GM's move would be cobalt wagon. Then they would be ready for check mate.Aveo hatch,Cobalt wagon, Malibu Maxx. All bases coverd.You don't want people moving down from cobalt to get a hatch.Malibu Maxx is value for sure but a slightly higher end value. Whatever they do they are going to have a great lineup.Good to hear from someone who has seen the Maxx, that it looks sharp.
Haven't seen the Maxx in person (it doesn't start production until November), but have 2 brochures and have seen a "zillion" photos of it.
I'm willing to bet something big that the Cobalt lineup will include a 5-door hatch (to compete with Mazda 3, et al). I'll be in shock if they include a wagon, but highly doubt it.
I do agree with your wagon sentiment. Time will tell if Chevy made the right move with the Maxx or if a wagon would have been wiser (they can always add one later).
I don't think America is ready for a return to mid-size wagons quite yet. Give it a fuel crisis and/or a few more years.
Anyone who's interested in the cloth seat fiasco in the new Malibu might want to check out the Pontiac Grand Prix main forum beginning with post #3003 or so. dindak, shame on you for not telling us.
reg thinks (he won't mind me paraphrasing him) the fabric which had been used on the cloth seats in the GP at launch (they switched the GP to basic color cloth 6 months into production!!! More ammo to wait, maxx) is now being used in the new Malibu and there wasn't enough left for the GP. I never saw the Uglycloth (the GP folks have nearly trademarked that name) in the GP, but I assume it's the same as that in the Malibu right now.
wpbharry: The Malibu cloth is FARRRR more subdued than was the Uglycloth (TM ack) in the Grand Prix. Thank God and Greyhound that's gone! Looked like something from the psychedlic 60's or that the dog threw up, IMHO!
Guess I skipped a beat. I mentioned (perhaps in the old '04 Malibu forum) that we need to keep tabs on the new GP, since it's an accurate harbinger of the new Malibu.
After MUCH initial criticism about the GPs rear seats being thinly padded (so the seat could fold flat), they've now added more padding so rear seat riders' tushes are more comfy. The downside is the rear seat no longer folds flat. Which is WHY the most recent pix of the Malibu show the rear seat folded at a 30-degree angle. Any bets that the rear seat in the Maxx won't fold flat any longer? I'd bet a STRONG YES.
John, and a friendly shame on you too for not telling us. Wasn't sure if you we're still keeping tabs on this forum.
I can't imagine much worse than what's in snaab's pix. I'd never be able to drive the car if I had a hangover (which, fortunately, isn't very often, but still).
GM needs to put Uglycloth in the upcoming Cobalt and in the Aveo. It'll find a nice home there.
Looking at the new Opel Astra and drawings of the Cobalt, I have a feeling there will be a hatchback version of the Cobalt. Should be interesting to see what Chevy comes up with there.
wpbharry : I have seen the GP seats and they are pretty ugly. That said, they are being fixed and the Bu's seats are not as bad from what I can see.
Comments
We are? I think you are imagining that.
I too am a bit frustrated with some of the junk on the new car that I know I'll be forced to buy if I decide to buy one (unless I order one and that's not gonna happen; don't plan that well). I really don't need remote start (in South Florida???), electronic traction control, automatic A/C (hate 'em), telescoping column, suede, XM, etc. This kind of stuff is what's inflating the bottom line of the car (AND it's where GM scores a big profit hit) since a lot of this stuff is in option packages with stuff I DO want.
There are plenty of things I don't agree with you on Reg...but on this point, I concur 100%. In fact, it's my absolute number 1 bone to pick with domestic mid-size cars.
BTW...I've yet to see anything approaching a negative review of the Malibu so far. I finally got out to read the Automobile and Car & Driver "first drive" reviews and found them to be solidly positive. I'd link to them but since the reviews are in issues currently on the newsstand they probably won't be available online until next month.
1. What the heck is that thing on the gear shifter?
2. Is it an option, or am I stuck with it?
2. Since there's no documentation hyping it as a feature, and since this was only an LS (midlevel equipment, normal cloth seats, etc.) in the showroom that I saw, I'm guessing it's just the standard design for the new Bu's transmission controls. (If it were a true manumatic, Chevy'd probably only offer it on the LT)
Hopefully Chevrolet will all this option for 05.
I'm one of those people that after an AT Maxima and an AT Protege will only buy a MT in my next car (likely to be the Mazda3 or Mazda6) in 12mths from now.
On another hand, NA buyers don't like MTs so I can see why Chevy doesn't offer it. People that tend to love driving prefer imports to domestics and one of the reasons is that a 5spd is available on a Mazda6/Accord/etc...
Dinu
Asked about the full brochure yesterday and it hasn't come in yet either (maybe they're packed in the first shipment of cars!). But those of us that rec'd promo brochure #1 last Feb. and #2 in June will undoubtedly receive a copy in the mail...
The manual trans wining is driving me nuts!!!! The same thing happened when the '97 came out. Chevy dropped the stick back when the Corsica replaced the Citation in the late 80s, for lack of demand, and I can't blame them for not offering one again. Heck, the Service Dept. at my dealership is snickering that Chevy is even offering the 4 cyl. on the new Malibu. Been there, done that. The '97-'99 (or '00, forget) had a 4 which no one bought, so it was discontinued. The 4 in the new car might sell a few but not much more; at the last moment they added the option of the V-6 to the base car. Why did they bother, especially with the new Cobalt a year (or less) away????
Also, since you seem to know so much about the Vectra, does that have a manual tranny? Just thought I would throw some more fuel in your fire... he he
LS $24695
LT $29220
Not bad at all. Could probably get an LT for about $26K, pretty decent for a V6 sedan with leather. Car will definitely be a value leader.
Dinu
I always find it funny how people were fine with 140-150 hp a couple of years ago but now it's not adequate power.
And let's get back to the subject of the Chevy Malibu Maxx. Thanks!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
As I recall, Old's mission before the bottom dropped out was also to snatch import intenders a la the Grand Am. Guess the overlap is what did Olds in.
I'll share a secret here. I really can't figure out the purpose of the Maxx. My hunch is that it'll give folks like me more choice and may also drop the average age of the Malibu buyer since young families will love it. BUT, I'm a bit hard-pressed to figure out what it really competes with.
When the 6 Wagon comes out we can compare it to the MAXX.
Dinu
Do the Toyota Camry and Mitsubishi Galant topics have the Mazda 6 plugged in it every 4 posts too?
Good luck with the malibus till then.
As for your comment re: Mazda quality, as long asyou buy a Mazda-Mazda and not a Ford-Mazda, you're fine.
Dinu
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
1) Let's hope Revka's generosity takes some pressure off this forum, and please USE THE NEW FORUM for that "you-know-what" stuff!
2) The Maxx really doesn't compete with ANYTHING. It's a bit of a wagon alternative, but also a bit of a small SUV alternative. Chevy is bringing out the Equinox in the spring with most of the same features as the Maxx, so I'm really not sure it's much of an alternative. I'm glad the Maxx is coming, I just don't know why. The press will surely enlighten us in the months ahead. Europe is such a different market (gas prices in part), and I can see the need over there for the Signum, but time will tell if there's much of a market for the Maxx.
You know, depending on how well the Maxx is received by the press (expect very well), we just might be looking at Motor Trend's 2004 Car of the Year. Really. A totally new category right smack dab in the heart of the market. Works for me. I'll bet that's also why Chevy accelerated the intro of the Maxx to December, as MT's criteria for nomination requires the vehicle to be on sale by Jan 1st. Doubt we'll see many in showrooms before Feb., however. Expect the same slow ramp-up that we're seeing right now with the sedan. If the Maxx takes off, just watch Honda and Toyota snap-to.
3) maxx, yes, I'm cringing too, but I doubt the seat fabrics will be any different on the Maxx vs. the sedan. I DO think there's a bit of hope wit the gray being a bit more subdued. But, also, let me ask you this. Early reports DO indicate easy clean-up of the UltraLux suede. Hmmm. If you can wait until summer '04, if there's a $2-3 grand rebate on it, could you swing the LT? That one is something I'll be considering, and it DOES involve a lot of praying (that sales don't take off like a rocket).
Similarly on the issue of Maxx rebates. REMEMBER, just because I correctly predicted quick rebates on the sedan (but I'd really predicted January; rebates on the sedan were a given), that has NOTHING to do with the Maxx. My long-shot prediction would be nothing until June or July. Safe bet would be nothing until the '05s come in. Even safer bet would be never. I doubt GM will post any rebates on the Maxx until they have a good sense of sales volumes.
So, maxx, this means that if the sedan passes the pedal, underhood, and seat fabric tests (either in LS or LT form), then ditch the 626, buy something that you can recoup your investment in (and get you through the expected nasty winter), and wait. And wait some more. You won't be alone. dindak is waiting too, by the way.
In terms of incentives, there will be some out of the gate but with the economy improving and this being a new car, you won't likely see 0-60 type incentives any time soon.
Thanks Revka!
Dinu
Now, I'm being negative on them on the Maxx and you're being positive.
What gives???
Like I said, I can see $1000-1500, but that's about it for a while unless sales really suck.
It is possible that the Maxx will look better in person than photos.
Note to GM: Your competition is designing great looking vehicles that will sell on emotion if not better quality and resale.
You proved that you can design a fun vehicle with the new Hummer and the SSR. The rest of your car line looks like designs from the 1980s.
I am hopeful that the Maxx is an aberation and the new Solstice and Equinox will make amends.
aveman: Very well said. I'd actually consider the Lancer wagon if it had a more powerful engine (V6). Don't like US-made Mitsus, but that one's a [non-permissible content removed] and OK. Have had the sedan as a rental several times, and it's one of the few tolerable little cars.
I'm hoping they advertise the Maxx as the "anti-SUV" or something along those lines. Also curious as to how they'll advertise the sedan; we'll know very soon.
The only ad (other than the Ford F-150) for an '04 model that I've seen on TV so far is for the Suzuki Verona (aka Daewoo Leganza/yoohoo Daewoo) as the "anti-Camry". Good for a chuckle.
I'm willing to bet something big that the Cobalt lineup will include a 5-door hatch (to compete with Mazda 3, et al). I'll be in shock if they include a wagon, but highly doubt it.
I do agree with your wagon sentiment. Time will tell if Chevy made the right move with the Maxx or if a wagon would have been wiser (they can always add one later).
I don't think America is ready for a return to mid-size wagons quite yet. Give it a fuel crisis and/or a few more years.
reg thinks (he won't mind me paraphrasing him) the fabric which had been used on the cloth seats in the GP at launch (they switched the GP to basic color cloth 6 months into production!!! More ammo to wait, maxx) is now being used in the new Malibu and there wasn't enough left for the GP. I never saw the Uglycloth (the GP folks have nearly trademarked that name) in the GP, but I assume it's the same as that in the Malibu right now.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amulay2003/vwp?.dir=/more+pics&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;.dnm=DSC00068.jpg&.view=t
After MUCH initial criticism about the GPs rear seats being thinly padded (so the seat could fold flat), they've now added more padding so rear seat riders' tushes are more comfy. The downside is the rear seat no longer folds flat. Which is WHY the most recent pix of the Malibu show the rear seat folded at a 30-degree angle. Any bets that the rear seat in the Maxx won't fold flat any longer? I'd bet a STRONG YES.
I can't imagine much worse than what's in snaab's pix. I'd never be able to drive the car if I had a hangover (which, fortunately, isn't very often, but still).
GM needs to put Uglycloth in the upcoming Cobalt and in the Aveo. It'll find a nice home there.
wpbharry : I have seen the GP seats and they are pretty ugly. That said, they are being fixed and the Bu's seats are not as bad from what I can see.