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2013 and earlier-Honda CR-V Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • bshelbshel Posts: 232
    Would you break that down to price of CR-V and then list all the Tax and Title fees?
  • edunnettedunnett Posts: 553
    As per my post #884 I paid $22,894 out the door from San Leandro Honda in the SF Bay Area for an automatic EX, so I think that's a pretty good price. If that quote is for a manual, then you can probably get a better price. My sale price was $200 below invoice. Make sure you bring the printout of your quote with you when you go to deal and be prepared to have to take that price quote to other dealers until you find one willing to match or beat it.

    Sale price (w/ Destination) $21,020
    Doc fee $45
    Tax $1737
    License $192
  • chongchong Posts: 10
    Just bought a CRV LX FWD with remote key,
    roof rack and mud guard at $18500 + TAX +
    license.

    Thanks for all the information in this forum.
    now I just need to pay attention to my oil
    change.

    chong
  • beege52beege52 Posts: 6
    Bought an LX auto 2wd 3 weeks ago...no extras, in Houston. Price was 18245.60 (inc dest), about 1% over invoice. At that time it was the best deal I could find. Add 230.95 for doc fee, state inspection, dealer inventory tax, license and registration, totals 18476.55. I didn't have any sales tax due to my trade in. I installed remote entry in mine for $96 (dealer wanted 299) and had it tinted for $199 at a local shop I've used before (dealer wanted 349). You got a better deal than I did.

    The CRV comes with rear mud flaps std. Did you add the fronts?
  • Actually, break down wasn't specified, this was a quote I received over the phone in order to beat another dealer's quote which was about 100 something more.
  • md2020md2020 Posts: 2
    That's a great price you got there prince. I'm trying to duplicate your efforts in order to get a good price for myself.

    Did you have any trouble receiving quotes over the phone from dealers because I've contacted several dealers in the MD area and they wouldn't give me a quote over the phone. They asked me to go into the dealership instead. Also, when you actually received a quote over the phone, how did you go about bringing that quote to other dealerships over the phone? I've asked dealerships what they needed from me in order to match other offers and they wanted some written proof.

    Thanks for your help.
  • bshelbshel Posts: 232
    use emailing. That way, you can show them in writing what another dealership has offered. Broaden your shopping are if possible. You may get better deals towards DC/Virginia or up toward PA.
  • monstermonster Posts: 4
    What tint shop did you use in Houston? Looking for a quality shop to tint our new vehicle.
  • beege52beege52 Posts: 6
    I've used Pablo Blue on NASA 1 in Webster to do a CRV, 2 Accords, and a Ranger. All looked great. The Ranger is 9 years old and other than slight discoloration from age, it's still good.
  • mrcmrc Posts: 3
    I just purchased a 2004 CRV EX auto. for $21,300 including destination, but not including tax, title and registration in Buffalo, NY. Can anyone near by share their recent experiences? I found Ray Laks Honda very helpful; salesman did not get all bug eyed about True Market Value and a customer doing internet research. However, they would not give me anything at all for my 1995 Accord EX wagon, 80k, great inside but rough outside. That's ok because it looks like I've sold it to a private party. I have learned a lot on this forum and thank its users for sharing. Any Western New Yorkers out there?
  • hkjcrvhkjcrv Posts: 84
    I just purchased a 2004 CRV EX auto. for $21,300 including destination, but not including tax, title and registration in Buffalo, NY
    Any Western New Yorkers out there?

    Hi mrc,

    I am in Rochester. Lowest price I was able to get was $22,300, and I thought that I did pretty good for the area... I'm jealous of your price! I should have shopped around more in Buffalo. Oh well, I'm not going to kick myself for it now. I actually had put a phone call into Ray Laks one time for a price quote and then they bugged the crap out of me 3 to 4 times a day until I was finally able to pick up the phone and tell them to stop calling me because I had already purchased my CR-V somewhere else. Made me think, though, because I thought that if the dealer seemed so eager, it would give the customer a lot of power... so I'm glad to hear you got a good deal from them. Anyway, I think you did very well for yourself in WNY, it's my understanding that the average "discount" on CR-Vs around here is only about $300 to $400 off of the invoice price (yes, we get majorly ripped off!)

    Enjoy your new CR-V! I've had mine for two weeks and honestly, I've pretty much forgotten about the dealership and the total price (total price with tax and interest is frightening, especially when you live in Monroe county and the tax rate is 8.25%). I was able to get a recent college graduate program deal through Honda Finance and got the 3.9% APR though, which is nice. Anyway, I got my monthly payments down to where I wanted them through my down payment and such, so I try to think about it in those terms! :)

    Did you get the CR-V yet or do you have to wait for it like I did?
  • kathgipkathgip Posts: 39
    I just purchased a 2004 CR-V after about 60 hours of intense research on small SUV's. The Honda was not my first choice, but based on all the positive reviews from professionals as well as CR-V owners, I was forced to reconsider. After driving several, and comparing size, options, comfort, and safety, the CR-V was the clear winner for me. I live in OR. and I paid $24,000 for the EX Auto, with added roof rack, mud flaps, cargo cover, wood interior detailing, all fees, LTR, and a 7yr/100,000 extended warranty (which is probably not necessary, but gives me peace of mind). If I would have paid full price here with all the extras, it would have cost about $26,000, so I got a good deal. No haggling, just brought in a check and walked out with my new and beautiful baby. I love it.
  • frankiejrfrankiejr Posts: 1
    Anyone know of a good dealership or the price they paid for an EX CRV in the Seattle Area?
  • kwilliamskwilliams Posts: 1
    Hello,
    I've been competitively shopping quotes around on a 2003 CR-V and here's what i've gotten so far. What does everyone think? Does this seem like a good price. I'm happy but wanted to get other impressions.

    New 2004 2WD LX CR-V w/ automatic transmission

    $17,999.00 Vehicle price

           490.00 Destination charge

           000.00 Appearance Package (mud guards, pin striping, fabric & paint protector)

           000.00 Keyless Entry System

           298.00 Documentation fee

             18.00 Title fee

               3.00 Ga Warranty Rights fee

    $18,808.00 Total “Drive Out” price before sales tax for your county

    I'd appreciate your opinion,
    Kevin
  • hkjcrvhkjcrv Posts: 84
    So is it a 2003 or a 2004? You mentioned both...

    Sounds like a good price to me, except that documentation fee is really high... I only paid $110 at my dealer.

    Enjoy your new CR-V...
  • Hey MRC

    I live in Rochester New York which is right down the Thruway from you. I have been just kicking the tires and slamming doors at this point. I am waiting for the 2005 models and some of the anticipated minor improvements. I also have a lease coming due in November which is handy since that is about the time Honda switches model years.

    Congratulations on your heck of a deal with Ray Laks Honda. Others on this board report the same good luck you had with them. How long did you have to camp out there until you got your incredible price? Was it in stock? How is the service dept to deal with?

    Good luck

    2 Year Lease only
  • eastbayeastbay Posts: 6
    That 18.8K price seems OK--I got the same package of features (keyless installed, appearance pkg) with an '04 LX 2WD automatic (+cargo liner thrown in) a week ago in SC for 18,500 OTD + tax/title. I visited several Honda dealers, plus contacted 2 other Honda dealers online through the Edmunds price quote service. Of the four Honda dealers I talked with, only two were willing to really bargain and it was a matter of saying to each of them, "beat the other guys price" and asking that a few high priced accessories that I wanted be thrown in.

    Key focus should be out the door price (OTD)--(not including taxes/tags) rather than the actual vehicle price. The reason being: both Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book say that the "documentation fees" and other such add-ons are bogus. So whether they charge it or not, keep to your target OTD price. The CRV also earns the dealer about $600 holdback (a payment) from the manufacturer, and although that doesn't make the salesman any profit, it does give the dealer some leeway to bargain. Now is the time when some dealers are trying to clear '04 inventory, especially the plainer LXs, and the holdback and perhaps other hidden incentives may allow the dealer to go to invoice or below.

    My strong impression after purchasing was that I could have gotten the LX for less--several hundred dollars??...but I'm still happy. Just had the windows tinted yesterday!
  • bubba.werkbubba.werk Posts: 11
    I think you can get it cheaper. I was quoted 18096 w/dest+ttl. If you go to Carmax they will give you a copy of invoice. It showed that invoice on this vehicle is $17556 but which invoice is that you ask, I have no idea. It sounded good to me but I have sold cars before. I know that is the 2nd invoice that any dealer will show you just to earn your business or beat someone else. The 1st invoice is the one they will not show you. Well anyway I was quoted on the same CRV LX 2WD Auto $18096 tax 1173.82(texas) Lic 180.55 so OTD $19450.37 and this was with Front Mud flaps, Mats, Tint,Cargo Tray, and Pin Stripes!
  • bubba.werkbubba.werk Posts: 11
    With Cargo Tray, Tint, Flaps, and Keyless Entry I think 19k is the nukmber I am looking at. I will let you guys know when it happens. The wife is getting impatient but I told her that if I did not get the price I wanted she was not getting one. She said you get the price you like and just drive the dang thing up and I will be happy. I said DONE!
  • acarbuyeracarbuyer Posts: 6
    I'm shopping for a CR-V, LX, automatic AWD(no side air bags) in NJ.

    Anybody buy an CR-V LX recently and what did you pay (including $490 destination fee)?
     
    Read someplace that Honda never discounts but don't know if that's true. I can't find any info about Honda giving dealers money back on 2004 leftovers.
     
    With the invoice at $18,700 + destination charge, should I expect the CR-V to be less? I know that the dealers are charging about $100 for doc fees. But no one is offering an extras (like an appearance package) at no charge.

    Any suggestions?
  • edunnettedunnett Posts: 553
    There are technically no "leftovers" yet - not until the 2005's roll onto the lots. Then you MIGHT see rebates. Also doc fees vary state to state and dealer to dealer. I'm in CA and paid $45 doc fee at my Subaru dealership and $50 at the Honda dealership for two recent new car purchases. There are legal limits to doc fees on a per state basis I hear, but I dont' know how to check that. -elissa
  • jra03jra03 Posts: 1
    We just signed a deal for a 2004 CR-V LX 4WD Manual w/Front Side Airbags, Mojave Mist Paint, Door Edge Guards, Rear Air Deflector, Door Visors, Side Steps, Remote Keyless Entry, Front Splash Guards, Front Ashtray & Lighter, Cargo Area Cover, Cargo Tray, All Season Floor Mats, 7/100k Extended Warranty. "Out The Door" price (less tax & tags)was $22,027.55. This was the best I could get out of the three dealers that responded via e-mail to my quote request.

       The manual transmission is a rare bird around here, have to wait till Tuesday to get possession (with my fingers crossed).

       Quotes varied from the above price up to $23,035.00. Given five working days to respond, three out of six dealers didn't even bother to reply by the cutoff date, guess they don't need the sales.

       Is there anyone else from this area out there with some numbers to compare? I think I got a fair price but that feeling may just reflect the caliber of Honda salesmen down here.

    JRA03
  • Who knows? You have so many trinkets like a rear air deflector, who can tell. What did you pay for the CRV without the 213 accessories? That way we can compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges with do-dads.

    Have fun with your new truck.

    Two Year.
  • tigerlilytigerlily Posts: 8
    Hi--Anybody have any dealership referrals to give. I have gotten quotes from many around here, but would like to know if there are any to avoid.

    Also, lowest quote I have received is $20,980, including destination. Excl. tax & registration. Sounds good, but I was going to offer them or a competing dealership to go to $20,000, incl. destination. Excluding tax & license. Maybe offer $21,000 OTD.

    Should I start offer at $20,000 OTD and go up or just hold steady to $21,000 OTD.

    Thoughts/advice appreciated. Thanks!
  • bshelbshel Posts: 232
    Are you shopping for an EX - and if so, Auto or MT transmission?
  • tigerlilytigerlily Posts: 8
    Of course. Sorry about that. Black CR-V EX. Automatic. Thanks!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Just remember before you make your OTD offer that dealerships have no control over sales tax and license. I would just concentrate on the price of the CRV and ask them what they charge for doc fees.
  • tigerlilytigerlily Posts: 8
    Thanks for the clarification, isellhondas! All along I thought "OTD" included everything. Good to know before I go in and negotiate on Thursday. I will have a few more questions until then...

    Does that seem like a good quote from them? And how much less than what I really want to pay should I start counteroffering? And, you CAN counteroffer some with internet quotes, right?

    (Nobody here in LA? This forum seems to be sleeping right now...)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    It's hard to compare out the door pricing in here when people don't separate out taxes, but the dealer can easily tell you what the OTD price will be for the car you're interested in, including taxes and registration, since the dealer is usually the ones collecting the fees.

    Doc fees shouldn't be over $50, but if you focus on the OTD price, you don't have to haggle the line items.

    You can, and should, counter offer internet prices; it's often useful to collect a few quotes and play the dealers off against each other. One will usually be hungry :-)

    Steve, Host
  • postal40postal40 Posts: 9
    hello fellow CRV members !

    i have been researching for small SUV's for past month . the ones i test drove are RAV4's and CR-V's . i decided on CR-V 2004 AWD EX [ which my dad also thought is better of the two ] . my question for you CR-V members is : should i get extended warranties on CRV ? if so , which ones do you recommend [ based on your CRV experience ] ?

    i thank you and smile !
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    You might be interested in the Extended Warranties discussion.

    tidester, host
  • tigerlilytigerlily Posts: 8
    What about the Honda "Summer Clearance." How much "savings" should I really expect at this time of the year? Just a couple of hundred, five hundred, a thousand?
  • tigerlilytigerlily Posts: 8
    If I want to pay $20,000, plus tax and license, how should I negotiate this (if possible) with a pre-approval loan letter from my credit union? What weight does the letter and the amount stated even have? How does this part of the contract/buying process work?

    Should I have the letter say that I am pre-approved for a $20,000 loan (which I am) or for just $14,000 and tell them I am prepared to put down $6000, which is really the way I plan to pay for it. (I thought maybe the $20,000 letter would help me negotiate that particular price, but does it even matter?) Remember that this is the first time that I am going through the dreaded car-purchasing process. Although I feel better prepared thanks to all your discussions.

    Also important--since I am going through my credit union and making a down payment, do the car dealership still need to run my credit??? Just want to be prepared.

    Lastly--is even worth getting the Consumer Reports Wholesale Price at this point? I feel pretty good about all the info I've received from Edmunds.com and its forums.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond, anyone...would really appreciate it!
  • edunnettedunnett Posts: 553
    I get internet quotes and quotes from fleet and internet managers (usually at invoice). You should counter with (and not back away from) at least your lowest offer. For our CR-V purchase I had invoice price offer through our credit union's dealership, invoice offers via email from several area dealerships and an email offer at $200 below invoice good for 2 weeks. I went to the dealership 6 weeks later with his email printed out and didn't let him raise the offer price - saying I came in for THIS price and on my way home I pass 5 other dealerships - I'd like the below invoice pricing or I'll be stopping at those other locations. I got the car for $200 below invoice and only got slightly abused on the trade in value - another show stopper for the sale. I suggest you do the same - demand (very nicely) the price you want and when I shop for a car I want to pay no more than $200 over invoice. Car dealers still make hundreds on the sale by way factory incentives and dealer holdback so don't think Invoice is really what they pay for the car.
    ELissa
  • edunnettedunnett Posts: 553
    1) If I want to pay $20,000, plus tax and license, how should I negotiate this with a pre-approval loan letter from my credit union?

    A: I don't think HOW you pay for the car is relevant when discussing HOW MUCH you will pay. Leave the loan letter and the credit union out of the negotiations. Bring a financial calculator and read all the lines in the paperwork to make sure you are not getting taken somewhere. Always feel like it's ok to walk out and buy the car another day.

    2) Should I have the letter say that I am pre-approved for a $20,000 loan (which I am) or for just $14,000 and tell them I am prepared to put down $6000, which is really the way I plan to pay for it.

    I save the "how I'm going to pay" discussion until after we've worked out what I'm going to pay. Always leave the possibility that you might finance through them dangling in the air. If they think you might finance with them, they might cut you a better deal?

    3)Since I am going through my credit union and making a down payment, do the car dealership still need to run my credit???

    They may still need to do some of this "just in case". I'm sure they've had their fair share of fraudulent checks so they need their own financing as a backup if your check does not go through. Just make sure on the paperwork where they write down any interest rates, that the same rate you have from the credit union or better applies. Another "just in case".

    4) Is even worth getting the Consumer Reports Wholesale Price at this point? I feel pretty good about all the info I've received from Edmunds.com and its forums.

    I go to the dealerships with that printed out. It's always worth it. You don't want to pay more than invoice if you can help it and the wholesale price gives you justification for that and will give you something to refer to during negotiations if they try changing things here and there. And like Steve said, doc fees at $50 are customary - more than that and they are ripping you off. Tax and title they don't have much control over. Destination is always $490. You might as well negotiate the price of the vehicle without all that stuff and try to get it at or below invoice.

    Other advice:
    - I like to not sit down in a dealership until our price is verbally agreed to. But sometimes you just get sick of standing.
    - Always be prepared to walk out if you feel you're not being treated fairly or not getting the price you want.
    - Always read everything before you sign.
    - Always double check your math and their math to make sure it all ads up.
    - I don't bother with the rustproofing, clear coat protection, extended warranty or fabric protection - I think they are all ripoffs but the dealer will most likely try to scare you and convince you that your wonderful new car will rust, stain, chip and fall apart if you don't buy all that stuff. Just keep in mind, it can all be purchased after-market for hundreds less (compare $600 for fabric guard to a $5 can of scotch guard or a $600 rust proofing to $10 touch up paint....)

    Good luck! I live up near San Francisco myself and just bought two new cars (a CR-V and a Subaru Forester) in the last three months at or below invoice so I'm happy to help. Feel free to email me too.

    Elissa
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I don't think a dealer can pull your credit report in the US without your permission (and telling them you are considering dealer financing may be permission). Frequent pulling of the report supposedly can negatively affect your credit score. So I'm reluctant to let mine be pulled.

    It's easy enough to wire transfer funds if the dealer doesn't want to accept your check without checking your credit - I pay my VISA bill that way now from my checking account and it's free at my bank.

    Here's a link: Fair Credit Reporting (FTC)

    Oh, and Forbes has a column this morning about car sales - inventories are high right now and Honda sales are down, so it's a good time to buy. Stick to your guns.

    And you can get wholesale (i.e. invoice) pricing free here, and you can cross check at Kelley for free if you don't believe us. If you insist on spending money, buy an InfoPak instead, LOL.

    Steve, Host
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    But I have no idea what the market is on CRVS or what the availability looks like.

    These are NOT distressed merchandise however in any marketplace. The prevailing market vs. supply will always determine pricing. I do know the So. Calif marketplace can be very hostile.

    A couple of good stores....

    Metro Honda in Montclair...

    Scott Robinson in Torrance

    Costa Mesa Honda...not sure what the store is called.

    I can only say I've met the owners and/or managers of these places and they seem very upfront.

    I'm sure there are other good stores as well.

    There are no "incentives" on CRVS and holdback is not profit.

    Good Luck!
  • postal40postal40 Posts: 9
    You might be interested in the Extended Warranties discussion.

    tidester, host

    thank you for 'extended warranties' link , the info was helpful even they dont relate only to CR-V's ,
    thanks again and ride happy
  • tigerlilytigerlily Posts: 8
    Thanks, you guys, for your input, I am going to digest it while here at work and see if I have any last minute questions.

    Nobody said anything about the price--lowest quote: "$20,900 (incl. destination)+tax and license". Is that good? Should I still start negotiating at $20,000 or start from $19,500. Please advise. If I paid 20,500 (inc. destination) plus tax & license--would that be a good price? (I am using that as my target.)

    Also, any input re: how much the "Clearance" will really affect my "savings". Couple of hundred? Five hundred? 1,000?

    Thanks!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 133,648
    $20,900 is below dealer invoice.. I paid more than that for my identical '02 more than two years ago... YES.. that is a good deal.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Oh, and Forbes has a column this morning about car sales - inventories are high right now and Honda sales are down, so it's a good time to buy. Stick to your guns.
     


    Steve that Forbes article is from May 18th, not July 28th as you state... unless you posted the wrong link.

    Yo isellhondas, if holdback isn't profit, then what is it? The dealership is getting money back from the manufacturer. Prep, advertising costs, etc are all factored in to the cost of the car. I'm confused!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    The market down there must be tougher that I even thought!

    It's BELOW dealer invoice! What more do you want?

    Hopefully it wasn't a lowball.

    Just watch out for high doc fees.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Over the years, the subject of holdback has been discussed ad nauseum to the point I won't get into it anymore.

    It HELPS pay for flooring and a bit of advertising. It DOES NOT fall to the bottom line as profit.

    In addition to holdback we also have this nasty thing called overhead.

    I don't want or expect my customers to even think about the massive costs it takes to open the doors. Likewise, we really don't like hearing all of the time about how much we "make" from holdback.

    Make sense?
  • matthew633matthew633 Posts: 26
    While I purchased my 2004 CR-V EX Auto in So. California (Buena Park) it was back in Dec. 2003. At that time, the invoice for this model was $20,830 to which I added $490 for destination and deducted $677 for dealer holdback. (Yes, you want to deduct dealer holdback.) So I started negotiating from $20,643 and we agreed on $20,793 + TTL.

    My out the door cost was $22,640. No extras purchased.

    I suggest you go at the end of the month, make it clear to the salesperson you intend to buy a car that day, take the paperwork to back you up, and be prepared to go to another dealer if necessary. Good luck and best regards.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    My daily news alerts sometimes do that to me and I sometimes forget to check the dates of the articles, like I did with that older Forbes column. Good eye - you'll do fine reviewing the fine print in the F&I box!

    Steve, Host
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 133,648
    "I suggest you go at the end of the month, make it clear to the salesperson you intend to buy a car that day, take the paperwork to back you up, and be prepared to go to another dealer if necessary."

    This is good advice for buying any car. You will never know how low a price you can get, until your offer is accepted. All the shopping in the world and asking for quotes won't find that out for you. To get the lowest price, be ready to buy and make an offer.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • tcasboytcasboy Posts: 214
    tigerlilly: You can save yourself a lot of time by not negotiating at all. Pick the price you are willing to pay (keeping in mind all the other advice you have been given) and make that offer to the salesperson for the vehicle you want. If they don't take the offer (and using your example somewhere between $20,500 and $21,000 plus tax and tags seems like the amount you were contemplating) then just walk away. Give them a phone number or email where you can be reached, tell them how long you will keep your offer on the table, and walk away. Make sure you explain that your offer is a bottom line number after whatever fees, blah blah blah, they want to throw in, only tax and tag can be added. If the offer is reasonable, they will likely call back within a day or two and take the offer. Then, be sure they don't monkey with the numbers when you sit down to sign the papers, avoid the added warranty and insurance things they will try to sell you, and be on your way to enjoy your new car! If not, try another dealer or up the offer a couple of hundred bucks and wait again. This method will save you time and aggravation going back and forth with several salespeople and their "manager".

    Good luck!
  • Elissa,

    You said,

    You don't want to pay more than invoice if you can help it and the wholesale price gives you justification for that and will give you something to refer to during negotiations if they try changing things here and there. .....ou might as well negotiate the price of the vehicle without all that stuff and try to get it at or below invoice."

    Are you saying that you purchased your most recent cars at the dealer's invoice price, the wholesale price, or something in between?

    TIA
  • ilene1ilene1 Posts: 2
    Mojave Mist. I received 3 email quotes for 17,900. I managed to get the large Honda dealership in Cerritos to bring their price down to 17,700. I think the price is okay. The other dealerships were not willing to bargain unless I faxed them a printed quote with a lower price. Autoland says 17,556 on the web for the car but cannot deliver their web price. They could only offer 18,400.
  • ilene1ilene1 Posts: 2
    Mojave Mist. I received 3 email quotes for 17,900. I managed to get the large Honda dealership in Cerritos to bring their price down to 17,700. I think the price is okay. The other dealerships were not willing to bargain unless I faxed them a printed quote with a lower price. Autoland says 17,556 on the web for the car but cannot deliver their web price. They could only offer 18,400.
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