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Another reason why dealers have a bad reputation is that you negotiate too much. If you put one price on the car and just sell it for that and everyone gets the same price, it would be much better. When you give one guy a good deal and the next guy that comes in gets taken for an extra $2K, he's not too happy when he finds out. That is the biggest problem. He ALWAYS finds out that he paid to much.
Its OK to have a sale to try to increase traffic but "everyone gets the same price" is the best policy to have. Different prices at different dealers is OK. You see different prices at Wal-Mart than you do JC Penney or Target but they don't negotiate. Does a JC Penney salesman have a bad reputation with the consumer. No, because everyone that goes in there gets the same price. If a guy comes in and says "I can get it for $500 less at another dealer." you should say, "Then you better Go see that other dealer." Now, your prices had better be competitive or that other dealer is gonna get the sale every time.
Why do you car salesmen want to argue about the monster YOU created?
Sure a white Honda Accord LX automatic could be sold for the same price in Myrtle Beach, SC and it could in Portland, OR. The one price, no haggle thing is already in place and has been since Saturn was born in 1991. Other factors like trades with lots of miles, damage, bad warranty histories, etc, plus being upside down in the trade, having bad credit, no cash, short time on the job and/or residence.
There are so many more factors that are variable other than the price of the new car.
Plus, if your service dept sucks, it's tough to keep repeat customers.
Let's say I own a Ford dealership and I have 1 Taurus loaded with options and my price is $25,251. If Joe comes in, that's what he pays. If mary comes in, that's what she pays. If Larry comes in, that's what he pays. Larry may say, "I can get a Taurus with all the same options at Joe Schmoes for $24,900." Then you say, "Please go to Joe Schmoes and buy it then."
Billy
There are no separate options on an LX 4cyl auto Accord. It's the same car, except for exterior and interior color at any dealer in the nation. It isn't like a Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Extended Cab 4x4 that can range $6,000 with all the engine, transmission and other options available. That's why I chose the Accord for my example.
I think selling cars at the same price and not allowing two factors to coexist is silly. Those two factors are that one person is a better negotiator and is more informed than another - why should someone be able to buy something with little or no effort? Even when buying jeans, my wife shops the newspapers for the best price. All Lee jeans aren't sold for the same price.
Also, allowing a "socialist" state in the car business to allow for lack of discipline, knowledge and ability is like granting welfare without an application. Why should we subsidize one buyer, by charging him more than he may get a car for, to help another buyer who isn't smart enough to make his own deal?
A third factor you're not seeing is that Saturn buying isn't popular at all with people who were taught, by theiir parents, uncles, supervisors, teachers, to negotiate. Saturn killed the fun for a lot of car buyers.
ford costs----$$$$
toyota costs--$$$$
and so on down the line. The price of each different car should be set. Granted there are several variables. but if price didn't change would you not always know what a dealer is ACTUALLY putting in your trade? No more allowance/A.C.V. comparisons. I show two transactions taking place. The selling of one car and the buying of another. The fact that they are both in the same deal should be irrelevant. That's the only way to make it totally FAIR to everyone.
Options and accessories should be added to the price. The dealer has nothing to do with someones taste.
Are you seriously suggesting this? Are you suggesting that Ford and Toyota and everyone all get together and set their prices? What if they just agreed to never negotiate and raise all their MSRP's by $5,000? Or what if Toyota sets their price too high and nobody buys Toyotas and you're out of a job.
Everyone would be happy?
Trade-ins should be a totally separate transaction and should be taken totally out of the equation. There are a lot of variables in a used car and that should be negotiated on a case by case basis, not depending on what you are paying for your new car.
Now chorton, in your post #61 and what you said before about all of the car manufacturers getting together, are you suggesting that Toyota help Ford develop a price for their Taurus? Just what are you smoking?
Landu2: As far as sales go, when they are over, they are over. Do what you say you are going to do. That's another thing car dealers don't do. They have a sale that ends at the end of the month. Then on the 1st of the next month, they say the sale is being held over for 1 more week. This happens so frequently that the consumer knows it will happen so he just waits and waits and waits. Now, consider Circuit City who has a 30 day price match guarantee or others that say we will honor other store coupons or match another store's price. Those deals are not like going to another car dealer and getting him to quote a price and taking it to another dealer for him to match it. Those are widely advertised prices that you don't have to haggle to get. I think some of that in the car business would be ok as long as that advertised price was offered to everyone and that price match guarantee was advertised and offered to everyone publicly.
I can buy a Honda Accord at $200 over on either coast - I don't know where you getting any influence of cost of living in the area and how much the dealer pays for rent - these factors aren't factors. Perhaps you've been reading, too deeply, the economic news section in your local paper.
My reference to trades, credit and negative equity was because these factors DO play into the final costs of the car for any consumer, especially one with problems in these areas. Just like with Saturn, an L200 with options X, Y and Z goes for $xx,xxx. They'll sell it for that, but your trade is worth the low side of wholesale and if there's negative equity, oh well..
Now I still don't understand why, since I'm a very practiced and sharp negotiator, I should have to pay the same price as some guy who walks in off the street that doesn't know a decimal point from a distributor point?
: )
Mackabee
My point is, as I have stated previously, that anyone walking into XYZ dealership should pay the exact same price and anyone else that walks in. In your case you are in 2 different locations. The case I am talking about is one where the location doesn't change, the buyer does. Please don't insult my intelligence and tell me that what your costs are don't affect what your prices or profits are.
The car being traded in is a SEPARATE matter. If there is negative equity, that's my problem. If I have a credit problem, it's my problem. Why should that affect the price I pay for my new car? Show me some real numbers if I am wrong. It may affect my final payment but that's not what I'm talking about. What we are discussing here is the car dealer's reputation for dishonesty. He gets that reputation partly because of the practice of changing what he gives on a trade-in to make up for what he lost on the sale to the same guy. Just set a fair price on the sale of the new car and make it be what EVERYONE that comes in there pays. Then negotiate what you give him on trade-in based on the shape, age, mileage of his car.
The ability of a good negotiator (and I would consider myself one of them) being able to get a better deal and 90% of the population having to pay $1000-2000 more makes the guys that pay more mad when they find out someone else paid less. Then they spread this around about how they got gouged. This gives the salesman the bad reputation.
If that's not what you believe, you don't know your customers very well. If you do agree with me, then you understand how we got to this point and that car salesmen brought it on themselves. Then don't complain about the reputation you developed and our reaction to it.
You sold your "customized Chevy Astrovan" (there's a gem) on the internet, so of course it wouldn't effect the price you paid for the Infiniti.
I'm not talking about the retail number you pay for a vehicle, I'm talking about the number at the bottom of the page after the dust settles.
I'm not in the business any longer, so I don't need to addressed as if I'm doing business and I'm part of the problem.
Jewelery: I'm lucky, neither me nor my wife are into jewelry. If jewelers make huge profits good for them.
Furniture: I usually make my own believe it or not. I pay retail for the wood and materialsat Lowe's but after that its all me and my woodshop. I don't do upholstery anymore so I guess I get hosed on my sofas and chairs.
Clothes: I buy 'em at Old Navy and Target. If I get gouged, I at least try to get gouged on the clearance racks.
Food: What I cook isn't fit for human consumption so this is the wife's realm.
No help to anybody here, just some idle ramblings
Why worry about everyone else? If you're selling cars and you're not very good at it, "lowering the bar" to make it easier will eventually put you out of a job.
If there's no differences in sales, no differences in service and no need for personal attention, we can buy cars through a vending machine. Just insert your check for $22,995 and out pops a set of keys and an owner's manual!
But what if you want it cheaper.....and who's going to buy that miled up piece of junk that you drove up in, that you owe twice as much as it's worth?
I'm done - see ya.
I mean, they have cars to sell if I offer them enough money. If they don't accept the amount I offer, then I have to offer more. Eventually I offer enough, and they sell me the car.
Heck, I have had dealers try to cheat me and do all kinds of stuff (like put my wife and I into a room that was bugged so they could listen to us), but it didn't bother me. I accept it as a fact of life.
Buying a new car is a wonderful experience.
No, I won't tell you what they heard my wife and I doing.
easy + fast + no haggle prices = lots of sales!!
that is if you know what you're doing
I went through dealer's used car lot about 2 weeks ago because they were having a "Police Seized Vehicle Sale" This was the biggest joke I have ever seen. It took me FOREVER to get the salesman to tell me what he was asking for the car. He kept wanted to know what I was willing to pay before he gave me his figure. I finally gave him a really low figure and he told me that he was basically selling for about normal used car prices. The police are not going to get rid of their inventory very quickly that way. I only went to this sale because I expected to get them for 1/2 what they are worth. The police didn't pay a dime for them. Maybe these were just their normal used cars that they just slapped a "Police Seized" sign on so people would be attracted to this sale. Any salesmen out there know what's going on with these types of sales?
: )
Mackabee
It seems to me that consumers would enjoy having this choice.
However, in other posts Bigorange says that he would like it better if car dealers across the nation had the same prices, thereby eliminating the choice mentioned above. Why would someone think that with all choice eliminated that mark-ups wouldn't zoom up to those "crazy" levels retailers have now?
On the other hand, there would still be competition between dealerships except that prices would be publicly posted. One would advertise a price and the other would undercut it to get the customers to come to their dealership instead.
Either way, the reputation of car salesmen would improve because they were being honest.
If a car salesman made you mad, take it up with them, not the people on this board. The people in the car business that are here aren't paid for it - they come here to try to help consumers and help each other help consumers. What do they get in return? They get called names.
(i) The trade-in. For most people, it's a two-car transaction and as soon as you talk trade-in price, you're dealing.
(ii) The options. There's color, there's a leftover car in November, there's the "loss leader" the dealer put on the lot (in no-sale blue, of course) to have a cheap car to advertise... there's the popularly equipped version (in silver) next to it... same price??? A convertible in late October in MI should go for the same price another guy paid in the spring??? You gotta be kidding me.
The dealer needs this flexibility; the customer can use it to her advantage if she's flexible... or pay a little more and get "the nice one".
I disagree with chorton's statement "nobody cares about MSRP". The good people at the Honda store sure do.. they got plenty merchandise that goes for around sticker. Odyssey, Pilot, CRV anyone? Great deals, too. Not cheap, but beaucoup car for the dollar. At Toyota, there's plenty of discounting going on... which always amazes me. But I seriously believe these guys are out to take over the world... become #1 in the US, for starters. If anyone can do it, Toyota can -- but that's a different thread.
If the General starts selling cars for sticker, they'll be bankrupt in 3 months. NOBODY in their right mind will pay that kind of $$$ for Chevys (SSR, Corvette notwithstanding)... and they know it. Why does Saturn have 0% til kingdom come? 'Cuz they don't discount... and noone will buy those cheap cars at inflated prices.
Is this not self-evident, especially to someone who works in this business?
-Mathias
Let's stop this silly stuff and deal with your question, or not. I used to be in the car business, so I don't know if you'd think I'm lying.
My point is, it won't be the same markup either... the profit will be higher on the 'nice' unit.
As far as "sale prices" on less popular cars, they have them. At least in my area. You can go to the store, point to the car, pay the advertised price and go home with an excellent deal.
What's not to like?
-M
Otherwise, I agree with what you are saying.
Really, I think you're just putting us on. Now you say that while your idea would be good, it would mostly be good for the dealers and definitely not good for your wallet. If that's the case, I'm sure you'll have legions of consumers backing you up. ;^)
: )
Mackabee
P.s. Just how many car salesman/women do you personally know?