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Just what is a good deal?

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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    Would you say there are more, less or the same % of car salesmen that are liars compared to other professions?
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    audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    boy that was original.
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    mney6mney6 Member Posts: 116
    Reminds me of the customer who traded in his Lumina on Sat.
    Oh Yeah, it is in excellent shape.
    We have never had a problem with it.
    In fact we just put new brakes and rotors on it six months ago.
    Oil changes every 3000 miles
    Ran it thru the shop yesterday for inspection.
    My work-order shows 10% brake life left and a blown head gasket.
    Good thing I put extra money in to make the deal happen.
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    Shame on you for not checking it out closer before making the deal.
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    such honesty from the salespeople, then condone dishonesty from the buyers. I suppose we "deserve" it. No such thing as integrity, mutual respect, or the golden rule anymore.

    You guys need a good dose of reality.

    Ed
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    quite the opposite. They have learned how to play the game though. If salesmen are going to do it, why do expect buyers not to. Some people even look at that as a way to get back at them for taking advatage of so many people.
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    defensive or overly unreasonable customers very often. When I do, I either use my superior people skills to get them back on track, or I will introduce them to the door with an exit sign over it.

    Ed
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    afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Wasting your time talking to this guy?

    At least Snurple was amusing....
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    there are no more people in the car business who think it's OK to lie than people in every other career field.

    It's a people issue, not a car business issue.

    My son works at a high-line bicycle shop. I ordered a pair of handlebars for my road bike through him - he gave the ordering information to his manager. Usually, when they order through this supplier, it takes 2-3 business days. After a week or so, while I was at the shop dropping off my son ( he doesn't drive yet), I asked the manager about the handlebars. He said he ordered them the day I asked for them. After another week goes by, I asked my son to ask about them and he tells me the manager ordered them "today" - 2 weeks later.

    Ends up, the manager ordered them after my son reminded him, but the manager lied to me and my son, because my son asked about them a couple of times.

    If the guy would've said "Sorry, Jim, I was busy with inventory and I forgot", I would've had no problem - I spent many years in retail and I know what "busy" feels like.

    But the guy lied. Why?
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Is out of control. If the troublemakers are ignored, they will go away. It's hard not to respond to their bait...I know.

    The title of this forum is..."Just what is a good deal"

    A good deal, in my opinion, is when both parties walk away happy. A sale with a minimum of stress for both parties.

    We need a new dishwasher. We will probably go to three different stores to check them out. From my limited research, it seems that Whirlpool offers the most value. It's possible that a knowledgable salesperson may be able to convince us otherwise.

    If the price seems fair, I'll write a check. I will NOT scour the newspapers fr a month in fear I'll find it advertised somewhere else for less.

    If it works well and the sale went smoothly, I will be happy.

    Life is short...
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    that salesmen of all types lie more than other professions. I don't believe that other people in the car business have a strong tendency to lie, just the salesmen. The salesmen in the business I work in are almost as bad. For some strange reason, car salesmen just have more of a tendency than other salesmen. But, that's just my opinion. It happens to be shared by the majority of Americans. Only lawyers have a worse reputation.
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    After reading the post by geoffdgti, in which he states, "Yeah, but that's the selection criteria for car salesman. You can tell they're lying because their lips are moving." I have a question. According to Edmund's policy, what groups are we allowed to make generalizations about? Does it end with professions or does it also extend to racial and religious groups? Is it OK to make generalizations about the character of people from any particular national background or are we limited to discussing that in the context of continent of origin? Is any of this acceptable or is it still OK to judge based on career choice. If so, I'll scoot to the back of the bus where I belong.
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    ". But, that's just my opinion. It happens to be shared by the majority of Americans." Wasn't something similar said back in the 1950's about another group? Maybe not. Nevermind.
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    You choose your profession and you choose how to act and interact with others. People don't choose their race or national origin. Don't try to equate the 2.
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Oh. I get it. So while racial bigotry is out of the question, religious bigotry is OK since you choose your religion. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Soon he will go away, just like the others.

    This will only happen if we ignore him.

    Hard to do, I know!
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    but I don't consider religion much of a choice. There is some degree of choice but how you are raised has a big influence and all religions are based on faith and things you cannot see. These things can't be proven by science or facts most of the time.
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I just want to make sure we are clear here. It is your esteemed opinion that it is OK to make generalizations about salesmen. It is OK to disparage them, make fun of them, share secrets on how to screw them and relegate them to a sub-human status. You justify this because they choose their job.

    I can't finish writing this. I'm liable to say something to get me banned. This is killing me. You have exposed yourself as a bigot and I can't make historical comparisons because of Edmunds rules. ARGH!
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    do not represent the whole population. I am not making fun of them but do get frustrated by them. What secret did I share on how to screw them? When did I call them sub-human. I have a good friend that is a car salesman and he agrees with me.

    That was not a very nice name you called me either.
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    "I have frineds who are salesmen." That sounds familiar.
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    try to refute what I have said.
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    landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    The non-salespeople aren't exactly jumping onto your bandwagon either.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    I thought that was against the the Member Agreement.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    and I'll stop. This guy is out of hand, and in the worst way - with flow-through facts and a bad attitude.

    We can't even say the word that describes the white grainy substance eaten in Oriental dishes, but folks can say salespeople are ALL liars, thieves and peddlers of evil - I don't get it.
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    mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    I'm not a salesman and I disagree with what you've said.
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    Can you give me some examples? I am willing to keep an open mind. I am not sure about others on this discussion. Are you saying they have always been very honest or that it has changed over the years?

    What do you do for a living?
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    prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    Folks, it's time to stop responding to those who make these threads their personal sounding boards. We're feeding their egos by responding to their constant "baiting."

    BTW, I'm NOT a car salesman, have never been one, have no plans to ever be one, and have met my share of both the good and bad sales reps. My simple solution is to never do business with jerk salesmen and dealerships. I also refuse to accept business from jerk consumers. Life is too short for such stress.
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    just go away.

    :)

    This really belongs in the inconsiderate buyers thread. Good luck with the moderators, Cliffy, I've tried. Of course, our other buddy has been awfully quiet since BO popped up, maybe its a new identity if he got booted (?)

    Ed
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I know. I actually enjoy when a participant uses the exact same language as some of the more notorious segregationists in describing car salesmen. They bristle when I point out the obvious. Its fun to watch the melt down but our good hosts prevent me from REALLY slamming the issue home.
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    when you say "Its fun to watch the meltdown."
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    revhappyken "Questionable business ethics at Rock Honda of Fontana CA" Nov 29, 2002 11:31am

    The 2nd post says that you should just "assume all car dealers are dishonest crooks"

    I only said the majority, that's more than half, not all.
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    landru2landru2 Member Posts: 638
    How's that Mustang of yours running?
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    getting ready to swap the 3.55 rear gears for 3.73s.

    In fact, I just had to make a quick run down the Northeast Extension (I-476) and into Philly on I-76E towards City Hall. It was a GOOD run (22 minutes), but the case had settled by the time I got there.
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    liked the looks of the new Mustang Concept car at the Detroit Auto show. The fastback looks really nice.

    I wonder if I could find someone to give me a good deal on one?

    Ed
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    It has the '66 look about it, but you can tell it's a new design, too.

    I still want a 2003 Cobra, though.

    I don't think there will be any "deals" on the new Mustang for a WHILE. Just like the '94 Dodge Ram, the new Beetle, the PT Cruiser and the Mini Cooper, even after a year since introduction, they were pulling MSRP plus.
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    fell for was the '65 Mustang. I didn't really care for the fastback look until the Boss series came out, '69-'70, I think.

    It would be cool to get one of those babies and upgrade it with a moden Fuel Injected drivetrain and some serious suspension and brake upgrades.

    It would be a good deal for the environment, and it would be a good deal every time you pulled up to the pump.

    I really like good deals.

    Ed
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    I have 119K miles on it now. It sure is starting to cost me some money in repairs. I am hoping my recent purchase of a 2002 Infiniti QX4 will not give me as much trouble until is has >200K miles.

    I like the 2004 Mustang that was just introduced but I wish they would improve the temperature control system. I drove a rental 2001 model a few weeks ago and the temperature controls had not changed that much from mine.
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    a '66 coupe with a transplanted '93 Mustang 5.0 and T-5 - he has a Paxton blower on it, road racing suspension - it screams.

    My road race Mustang is out of place here in PA with all the quarter mile wanna-be guys.
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    talk about a great track with lots of history. Nice nice facility.

    Ed
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    next year and I'm only 150-180 miles away. It'd make a great weekend.
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    mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    A buddy of mine had one when we were in high school. We were both in auto mech class and we had a ball with that car! It was dark blue, stick shift and fast! Loved that car! Once in a while he'd let me drive it when we skip school and go to the local Sonic Burger to pick up chicks. Boy I'm dating myself here. Oh well, it's nice to look back on some fond memories.
               &nbs- p;           &n- bsp;   : )
    \ Mackabee
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    we ate there when we were in Texas (home) on vacation in August.

    I'm looking forward to moving back eventually - if I do too many Sonic steak sandwiches, tator tots with cheese and root beer frosties, I'll have to double teh mileage on my bicycle!
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    abtsellerabtseller Member Posts: 291
    they widened all the surfaces by 50% and they have a really good camping area, showers, etc.

    I'm thinking of picking up a cheap Miata and making a dedicated track/fun car out of it.
    :)

    Ed
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    many companies are now building "spec" Miatas for road racing and autocross (they're also street legal) for about $10K (completely ready for competition).

    You could also pick one up that's 6-8 years old and throw a few bucks at it.

    Although I race my Mustang exclusively now (I used to field two cars) I really enjoy watching the Miata guys and girls - they have a blast.
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    bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    you can get on a Honda Odyssey? I have a friend that wants one and can't seem to find someone that will sell one below MSRP. Is that reasonable?
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    CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi everyone. It looks as though there has been quite a bit of flaming going on in this discussion this afternoon. Let's all try to get along, and try to refrain from getting personal in posts. If the bickering continues, this discussion will be frozen. We should be able to discuss what you personally believe constitutes a "good deal" civilly (and no more off topic Mustang posts either :) ). Thanks.

    Car_man
    Host
    Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards
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    zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    an "aside" to ease tensions, started by a couple of long time members.
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    thelthel Member Posts: 767
    Sounds like a good idea to me. When was the last on-topic post anyway?
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    cfocfocfocfo Member Posts: 147
    How would we ever really know what the dealer's cost is for a car ?
    Invoice ? No
    Invoice less holdabck ? I doubt it
    Invoice less holdback less dealer incentives ? Who knows ?

    I doubt that any cars get sold at "near" cost, yet we all walk away thinking we were special and got a "good deal".

    A good deal is your father owns a dealership and gives you your car at his cost, everything else is, keep your eyes wide open, research on Edmunds, and hope you're neighbors or in-laws don't buy the same car anytime soon.
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