I am in the market for a minivan. We are waiting until mid september to purchase(closing on a new home). I shopped several dealers for an '04 Sienna XLE. I was give 2 decent quotes, one $1500 over invoice and one $1000 over invoice. When I told the dealers I wanted to wait and order they were saying the '05 are selling at sticker price. After seeing the '05 odyssey and new available features I will be holding off to drive the honda. The dealer near me (ocean county, NJ) said they are not expecting the '05 odyssey in until late september early october.
Yeah, I would definitely wait to drive the Ody first too. At least by then, you could use that in your negotiation with Toyota if you still wanted to buy the Sienna. You might get invoice by then.
We have an 00 Ody EX and have placed an order for a 05 Touring with NAVI/RES at MSRP. This will be the first one our dealer receives and we requested Sage Brush Pearl/Olive interior. Our salesman completed the ride & drive yesterday 8/20 at Foxborough Stadium and was impressed. He said it was a quantum leap over the old van. He filled me in on a lot of info. just a couple of items that he told me that I haven't seen in the forum. Inside the van does appear larger than the current one, no power passenger seat on the touring, sunroof was of good size, rear backup camera standard on NAVI(like Sienna), seats seemed comparable to current van. Any questions I'll try to answer and I'll be talking to him again on Monday. Handling and operation of the drivetrain with the shutdown of the 3 cyl. was seamless and exemplary for a vehicle of this size.
I thought the shut down of the 3 cyl was an excellent feature. Any word mpg city/highway? When is your van supposed to be in? What was the msrp if you don't mind posting it? Thanks for the info again.
On the Touring w/NAV+RES: 1) Will you lose the 8th seat option (Lazy Susan) ? 2) Any woodtrims or satin-nickel finishes? 3) Does the front grille have all chrome or does it have chrome+color-keyed or chrome+black? 4) Does the rear license plate garnish have chrome or is it color-keyed? 5) Satellite radio? 6) It has front+rear sensors, but is it "Intuitive Parking Assist" in which there is a display on the dash which "assist" with parallel parking? 7) Is it wider and longer than the Sienna? 8) Are there really over 700 voice commands on the NAV?
Salesman was told Highway Mileage was 28 MPG. I agreed to purchase at MSRP which is unknown at present. I purchased my Pilot EXL/RES the same way from this dealer. I received his first Pilot with RES. On the Touring it did not seem that Honda did anything with the wheel well. He wanted to open it but was not allowed. He did think that there was going to be an optional console for between the two middle seats. All the vans he drove were taped up as in the photos since they were driving on Residential Streets. He drove all the van models LX, EX, Touring Etc. so time in each model was limited. He was able to answer my specific questions I gave him prior to him going to the ride & drive.
It sounds like families like ours that fly to vacation spots and then rent a minivan or an SUV would want a portable GPS and a factory installed one for their own vehicles. Sounds a little expensive but could possibly be worth it. Those nightmarish "we can't find the ice-rink, or the airport, or whatever" times can be hard on marital harmony. I think I am selling myself. DH will probably object but I can remind him of the time I ended up on the Gulf coast instead of central Texas because I was too busy chatting with his sister.
Cross bars are the two shorter bars that run perdenicular to the two longer roof racks. Honda apparently does not believe in giving you those cross bars for free. You usually have to buy them for like $150.
I like having a factory installed NAV on the family minivan for shorter road trips. But for going from Oklahoma to Florida or California, I would fly there and then rent from Hertz and reserve a minivan with the Hertz NeverLost GPS system. I use the $20 coupon from the Entertainment Book and also use Discover Card to get the additional 10% discount. The Hertz GPS is a Megellan 750NAV, which can be purchased for $1,500 on the internet, but is sold for $2,000 retail. For this amount, you might as well get the factory Honda NAV, which is Alpine, which is A LOT better than the Megellen.
The Hertz NeverLost (Megellan) is very good, though. I like it a lot.
And since they usually don't have too many minivans with the GPS system, they may run out of them at the time of pickup. Then you get to request a bigger vehicle!
They let me drive a luxury Lincoln Navigator since they ran out of minivans with GPS!
So do most people consider Nighthawk Black a premium color or something? I think Black looks great on Luxury sedans and exotic sports car, but on SUVs and vans, it looks kind of scary to me---looks like a hearse at night.
I totally agree with that. Nighthawk Black vehicles better have chrome wheels and chromes accents to shine that baby up. Otherwise it will look like a hearse IMO.
Any idea if the 2005 Odyssey can be purchased below sticker?? Also, do you know what the price difference will be between the EX-L RES and the Touring EX-L RES/Navi?? Thanks
"He did think that there was going to be an optional console for between the two middle seats."
rrshinn, 1. An 8th seat/tableback or just a tray table/console? 2. sunshades on which models and which rows? 3. Power liftgate option for EXL? 4. Heated AND cooled seats?
I saw the colors at my dealer today and I think I'm gonna love the slate green metallic I ordered!
If you do get crossbars due to a need for the ski attachment, bike attachment, etc., it will minimize the noise if you place them farther to the back. This really helped on our '97 GC and our '03 Sub. On both, I positioned the first bar about halfway back on the side rails, and the second bar all the way back. Our '99 Ody and '03 Pilot only has the side rails...No crossbars, so it was not an issue.
Also, remove the added attachments when not needed. This also helps gas mileage.
One person on the OdyClub said 2 dealers in Chicago says ALL models, including the Touring, will have the 8th seat Lazy Susan. He pre-ordered his Ody as a Touring w/NAV+RES w/8 seats at MSRP.
FWIW re: crossbars and the LX: we purchased an LX and we wanted the roof-rails only (the parts that run front to back that the cross bars attach to).
the dealer thought that was an odd request.
when travelling, we've had good success using a kanga brand roof pouch that we could strap to the rails.
chrismas time, we had the rails to dog down the christmas tree.
i imagine if i ever need to haul lumber or something else over-sized, i could make my own temporary cross bars out of 2x2 or 2x4, or pull the 2nd row seats and drop down the 3rd row bench and stick the stuff inside.
if i need a commercial solution to the omitted cross bars, there's Thule or Yakama or something else.
cross bars seem like a great noisemaker and of little utility unless you are a family into one of the sports where these perpendicular elements of the rack system add flexibility in what can be attached.
asthetically, the LX roof-rails are not as low-profile, or angled the same as those on the EX. I'm not even sure the systems (LX and EX) are compatible. anyway, if they had made the LX system capable of quickly disconnecting the cross bars (we didn't think that was possible - not sure even movement front to back was possible on the LX), we would have asked the dealer to include them.
I have no idea. but if it's a lazy susan, it makes no difference. If you don't need the 8th seat, like most of us most of the time, then just fold it into the floor like it's not even there. Like they say, it's better to "have it and not need it" than to "need it and not have it". The Lazy Susan can also be used as a tray table if needed. But if you just don't need it, just make it disappear into the floor.
The "Lazy Susan" refers to the storage compartment in the floor, not the 8th seat. So, the 8th seat folds into the Lazy Susan, and the 8th seat doubles as a tray table. If you don't have the 8th seat, then the Lazy Susan is just more storage space.
I suspect the Touring trims come with luxury captain's chairs for the second row and that's why the 8th seat won't fit in between. I also suspect you can have the dealer swap those out for the regular split bench w/ the 8th seat configuration.
Oh well, only time will tell, and fortunately it is growing short.
If the '05 Ody turns out to drive fairly quietly, I was thinking that I'd want a Touring model since it seems the most luxurious and we don't require the 8th seat option. But the idea of having a storage compartment in the floor really appeals to me.
Thanks in advance to any folks out there who have some facts and would like to share them. Does the Touring model have a storage compartment in the floor between the two luxury cajptains chairs?
And has anybody seen how the lazy susan works? Is it like a divided bin? Could I throw a bunch of car clutter in it when I find myself driving past a good car wash place with 20 minutes to spare?
My local Honda person said no for AWD for the initial release. What I'm hoping they are going to do is offer the hybrid system for '06 or '07, and use it for AWD with the real wheels being driven by the electric motors (similar to the upcoming Highlander Hybrid).
I bet either Honda or Toyota will have something similar to that by 07, maybe 06.
Here's what the Honda dealer said about 05 pricing "While you are correct on the MSRP issue, we will not be selling the 2005 Odyssey for MSRP. Again, they are going to be retail vehicles and therefore the price we are honoring is the 04 retail price of $31899. Rest assured, our actual 05 retail price will be higher, so an 04 retail price will still be a significant savings. .......They have not increased production from what it currently is and what it has been for the last two years. While the supply problems will be better than it was back in 99 through 02, we expect the Odyssey to be an MSRP + car for a few years at least."
That's basically what two dealers in my area told me, too. I read what looked like a reputable piece of information that Touring + R&N will be 8% of the production, so it looks like the top end vans will be in short supply for some time, which means MSRP + whatever the dealer can get. I can't help but wonder about the dealers who are telling people that they are giving them MSRP on '05s... either it's in an area with not a lot of demand, or the dealer is going to reneg on the deal?
Oh and dezinho... after seeing that you are also in the northwest, I have a feeling we heard the same thing because we were talking to the same salesman, or at least same dealer :-).
I think Honda is under the assumption that they dont have any competition out there if they are already thinking they can charge over MSRP. Anyone willing to pay over MSRP will deserve to overpay for an already overpriced vehicle. It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are willing to part with their money for a car. I will not pay over MSRP for this van, no matter how nice it is. It simply is not worth it and I dont need it that badly. There are other vans out there from other manufacturers very willing to compete on that playing field and I think they will be the ones benefiting from Honda's overpricing. They walk on thin ice (IMO) on this issue in my book. I see more and more Sienna's taking over the road here and more and more Ody's sitting on the lots collecting dust.
I pretty much agree. My dealer guaranteed I wouldn't have to pay MSRP so I'd feel compelled to walk on principle alone if he suddenly asked for MSRP +. Almost daily I weigh my options, as in possibly leasing a 2004 Ody or even leasing one of the better domestics for dirt cheap until pricing comes down or they make additional changes to the 2005. But, honestly, my dealer would most likely have to really make me mad or the pricing would have to be really out of whack for me to give up the 05 now. It won't be long now.........
Paying MSRP is bad. Paying above MSRP is ridiculous. There is no good reason that this should be the case other than the fact that there are a thousands of people out there willing to finance the vehicle so the price doesn't mean as much to them as the payments. And as long as people are willing to pay it, Honda is smart to charge it. People should realize that the production capacity exists now to reduce the supply issue, and there is now enough strong competition from other makers and SUV's on top of it. As with most products, I think those who wait at least a few months are making the better move. Plus the early models will have bugs and defects that make "overpaying" even more ill advised. When I decide to buy later this year or early next, if I can get a similarly equipped '05 Sienna for less than the '05 Ody, the decision will be an easy one...
You are so right. Just for kicks I decided to price the most expensive Sienna here on Edmunds w/the highest upgraded pkg and came out with a TMV of $37,420 which is probably higher than what they are selling for in this area. The invoice was $34,840 and there is a $1,000 rebate on top of that. The MSRP on the Sienna of that grade is $39,427 which is probably the same MSRP for the Touring of the '05 Ody when it comes out. For anyone to pay over that when they can have a 2nd model year Sienna of the same caliber is just beyond me. Maybe I am just jaded with my experience of internet car buying where I know that MSRP just goes out the window immediately. I also am in the process of custom building a home where I would much rather put the $40K, heck that is a pool with enclosure! I am in no hurry to give a dealer my money and can wait for them to get "REAL" on their pricing first. I would like to have an Ody by Christmas, but will put the money in my new house first where it will appreciate in value instead of depriciate in a car.
when a manufacturer sets a high MSRP and then deep discounts the vehicles to move them, what is your take away?
and what were people paying for the new sienna when they first came out? that is - if they could find the vehicle configuration they wanted (or were willing to accept)?
and weren't people having difficulty even getting an opportunity to drive one, because dealers didn't have them? i mean, not everyone is willing to buy a car they haven't seen or driven.
lynnw you say the honda is "over-priced"... if the vehicles (all trims) come standard with the side air curtains, and the vehicle stability control, and ummm floor mats - then when you match up the pricing to the comparably priced and outfitted sienna, i wonder if your opinion will change or stay the same.
Looking at Sienna MSRP's and recalling what was in the Money article, I think Honda's going to be competitive. I think Money said roughly 25k for an LX, 30k for an EX, and 35k for a Touring, but we'll have to wait a week before we know for sure.
According to buyatoyota.com, here are the MSRP's for the Mid-Atlantic region. Of course, expect Sienna prices to rise (again) in the near future. - I paid 1700 off invoice for the very first listed model a couple of months ago. - (safety features) = VSC + TRAC, side front seat & 3 row curtain airbags, rear disc brakes
- LE 8 psngr FWD is roughly equivalent to Ody EX, although you only get one power sliding door. 28,065 (safety features) 29,980 (safety features) + RES
- XLE FWD with leather & surround JBL sound is roughly equivalent to Ody EX-L, but has a power tailgate standard. 33,865 (safety features) + moonroof + sunshades 35,565 above + RES 36,060 above + NAV + backup cam
- LTD FWD with leather safety features, xenon HID's, laser guided cruise control, sonar parking assist, roughly equivalent to Ody Touring but with some extras. 37,190 RES 38,870 RES + NAV + backup cam
The Honda dealer, who was telling me that their "retail" price is always above MSRP, was insinuating that Honda MSRPs are lower than competition, and then it's up to dealer to price it competitively. As I said to him, that just tells me that somewhere, the competition is not so stiff, so people are paying MSRP or (gasp) less. I hope that the 05 Sienna gets memory driver's seat in its top trim line so I can do a true apples-apples comparison of the 05 Ody vs 05 Sienna. Assuming that happens, I will be comparing the quotes and going with the better deal once they're both available.
You need crossbar to secure the stuff you are going to carry at the top. Bike, pouch/bag, hard-shell box or ski/snow board. It has two pieces and connect the two pieces along the side of the van at top. LX and EX are different so they can't be cross over. There are many aftermarket supplier has it but either very expansive with very good quality and aero-dynamic shape or cheaper but so-so quality. OEM one is in between. The wind noise is something you can't avoid but minimize it at best. Unlike Nissan or Ford's design that slide and lock with dial, it uses hex screw and thus mated screw driver to unlock it. Due to its uneven length front and back, you can't reserve it(there is a small label marked front and rear). Nor can the front be moved right in front of the rear bar like those two brands to further reduce the wind noise. The noise is audible but not very loud. You will notice its existence in relative quiet cabin in windy day at high speed (50+).
I know which portable you are mentioned. Those are larger than the walki-talki and more like a panel as in OEM but independent unit with smaller screen (4-5" diagonal). For latest top of the line, it also has built-in DVD reader for upgradeablility but cost you more than $1200. For that money, I will go with OEM. Below $1000 I will consider to buy it. NAV could be considered as safety to prevent lost and chance to ask stranger for directions. It's especially true for female drive alone. Sooner than later, it will be popular like cellular phone or integrated into it, so called Smart Phone which already sold in Asia.
How do they teach math on the planet you come from? Per post #2755 a Honda salesman said highway mileage was 28 with cylinder deactavation. 28 MPG in not close to 40 MPG on this planet.
I did compare the Sienna XL Limited w/the Ody and to the best of my knowledge that included the side curtain airbags, etc. etc. My opinion will not change, regardless of what the car manf. and dealers want you to believe all cars have a LARGE profit margin on them. Invoice is not really invoice. If you truly believe that a dealer is only making a couple of hundred dollars per car sale by what is on the window sticker then you are falling for lies that they want us all to believe. Take a look at these dealerships. Look at how large their property is and think of all that overhead. We own a business and know how expensive it is to own commercial property and maintain it, not to mention operating costs and payroll. There is no way on earth they could stay operational based on a couple of hundred dollars profit per sale, impossible. If the truth is that invoice is what they really pay for the cars then they could never afford to sell below invoice. Anyway, all cars make huge profits and anyone who wants to is more than welcome to pay either MSRP or over MSRP. I am not the type of conumer who is going to pay it because I know that time and free market are on my side. I dont have to buy a car tomorrow, I have the luxury to wait for what I want. As far as availability, isnt that convenient for them?! They can "claim" that production wont keep up with demand, but I dont buy that either. Sorry, I just dont buy it! But I respect the fact that you may feel comfortable paying that for your car. Trust me, money is not an issue with me. But I do prefer to be a smart consumer and not have a dealer tell me that I have to pay more than what the manufacturer says asking price is. Also, according to the dealer who posted a couple of days ago, the limited starts at $35,000 but with nav/res the price goes upwards of $39,000 but I believe it could be more based on the fact that they feel they can push it up and people will pay it.
Invoice is the price dealer buy from the MFR. It doesn't reflect the Holdback or incentive from the MFRP usually 3-6% depends on the quantity. Which translate at least $600 profit if they sold at invoice. When inventory pressure is high, MFR will not onlu provide rebate to customers but dealer as well. You could say lower the MSRP for dealer to charge more on customers, but also can say higher MSRP for dealer to lower selling price to be look good. As it means "Manufacturer Suggest Retail Price", is not a fix price. The invoice is more reasonable to reflect the vehicle's cost. Don't fold into the above, on and below MSRP thing. $1000 below MSRP doesn't mean cheaper than MSRP of the other brand. Findout the options you like to have and compare with equally equipped choices and quote. The final number, not the difference to MSRP will be the best buy. When I bought my '99 Odyssey EX, I paid MSRP -- $26,215 + options worth $1,047. The comparable Sienna LE without wheel fender but stereo upgraded ($500 approx.) is $28,700+, $1,200 below MSRP. I got bigger space and power, dual power door 9Sienna only has one) and less than $1000 cash. I might be able to knock off some from Toyota but need effort to get even. Which you think is better deal? Say if the toyota was $500-$1000 cheaper if I bargain extremely hard or find the dealer further away from metro area, I still like to buy the Odyssey. Why? Because it worths it. If dealer asking for $2,500 add on, then it's another story since it's much more expansive compare to others. My point is: forget about the MSRP. Focus on your preference list and get the asking prices before makeing decision. Look at what you pay for what you get.
Dealer always making money but not for nothing. They should provide good service and reasonable shopping environment. If they have hot products and low MSRP, they are lucky. Think they may have below par models need near Invoice or below to clear up the inventory, so of cause they will try to squeeze as much as they can from hot models. Have you ever feel guilty if they sell a car below their cost to you? Of cause not. Neither do I. If they go too much, you always has choice to walk away to other dealer or brand. That is the fact and we have to live with it. A friend of mine work in a Toyota dealer told me most dealers in Japanese brands can't specify the qty of all models. They have to accept the allocation for all models from MFR. They can't reject the not favor models to exchange or increase the hot modles until next calender year based on the number sold this year. It sound logical since MFR can't change the production rate for their lineup sooner than 6-9 months for scheduling parts purchased and production line change.
As to limited production to allow dealer to charge excessive profit is far from true. MFRs don't own the dealerships and their profit come from the number of vehicles sold to dealers. So they need to make as much as possible especially the hot models or the higher frofitable ones like SUV. It's their marketing responsible to forsee the need and suggest the number before finding the capacity in their production lines. Honda was known has poor marketing on this. When last gen of Accord in '98 debuted, they predict 70% will buy 4 cyn. and 30% buy 6. They end up with giving rebates to promote 4 and long waiting list for 6. The dealers have to charge over MSRP to make up the less profit on the 4 which even priced at Invoice. The next year they change to 50/50 to solve the demand. '99 Odyssey is another example. The estimate the demand only need 100k and first year produced only 60K. But the demand was so high and even they made near 150k in the 3rd year, they still can't keep up the orders. Anyone has the number of how many they will make in the first year?
Visited my salesman today who completed the ride & drive on Friday. He came away with the quick start guide that they give to new van owners and I was able to look through it. I'm impressed with the features on the Touring NAVI/RES. Only disappointment is no power passenger seat (shotgun}. Touring with NAVI gets XM radio & rear view camera standard. Heated seats & mirrors, no cooled seats. Center console second row that is removable. Storage compartment (lazy susan) in the floor forward of the second row seats. Window shades in sliding doors to shade second row seats. NAVI tilts down to reveal 6 Disc CD player. Honda recommends regular gas.
I understand that people do not like to pay MSRP for vehicles, and as a salesman its hard to do, unless there is a HUGE demand and dealers can do it...Why is it that no one likes to pay MSRP at a car lot, but are Happy to do so at an electronics store, furniture store, and clothing stores. People may MSRP on EVERYTHING but cars, WHY???????? I know a lot of people are taught to buy cars at the end of the month, and the end of the model year, BUT if you are looking at a Honda, who has never had a "REBATE" or 0% you can get as good of a deal on the 2nd of the month versus the 30th of the month. I've sold cars for 2 years and I'm ready to hear the answers to these questions
Comments
At least by then, you could use that in your negotiation with Toyota if you still wanted to buy the Sienna. You might get invoice by then.
1) Will you lose the 8th seat option (Lazy Susan) ?
2) Any woodtrims or satin-nickel finishes?
3) Does the front grille have all chrome or does it have chrome+color-keyed or chrome+black?
4) Does the rear license plate garnish have chrome or is it color-keyed?
5) Satellite radio?
6) It has front+rear sensors, but is it "Intuitive Parking Assist" in which there is a display on the dash which "assist" with parallel parking?
7) Is it wider and longer than the Sienna?
8) Are there really over 700 voice commands on the NAV?
What is the "cross bar?" I surely don't want one--is it hard to avoid getting it? Thanks!!
Honda apparently does not believe in giving you those cross bars for free. You usually have to buy them for like $150.
The Hertz NeverLost (Megellan) is very good, though. I like it a lot.
And since they usually don't have too many minivans with the GPS system, they may run out of them at the time of pickup. Then you get to request a bigger vehicle!
They let me drive a luxury Lincoln Navigator since they ran out of minivans with GPS!
I think Black looks great on Luxury sedans and exotic sports car, but on SUVs and vans, it looks kind of scary to me---looks like a hearse at night.
Are you stating that you are a certified Honda dealer?
Nighthawk Black vehicles better have chrome wheels and chromes accents to shine that baby up.
Otherwise it will look like a hearse IMO.
rrshinn,
1. An 8th seat/tableback or just a tray table/console?
2. sunshades on which models and which rows?
3. Power liftgate option for EXL?
4. Heated AND cooled seats?
I saw the colors at my dealer today and I think I'm gonna love the slate green metallic I ordered!
Also, remove the added attachments when not needed. This also helps gas mileage.
He pre-ordered his Ody as a Touring w/NAV+RES w/8 seats at MSRP.
the dealer thought that was an odd request.
when travelling, we've had good success using a kanga brand roof pouch that we could strap to the rails.
chrismas time, we had the rails to dog down the christmas tree.
i imagine if i ever need to haul lumber or something else over-sized, i could make my own temporary cross bars out of 2x2 or 2x4, or pull the 2nd row seats and drop down the 3rd row bench and stick the stuff inside.
if i need a commercial solution to the omitted cross bars, there's Thule or Yakama or something else.
cross bars seem like a great noisemaker and of little utility unless you are a family into one of the sports where these perpendicular elements of the rack system add flexibility in what can be attached.
asthetically, the LX roof-rails are not as low-profile, or angled the same as those on the EX. I'm not even sure the systems (LX and EX) are compatible. anyway, if they had made the LX system capable of quickly disconnecting the cross bars (we didn't think that was possible - not sure even movement front to back was possible on the LX), we would have asked the dealer to include them.
but if it's a lazy susan, it makes no difference.
If you don't need the 8th seat, like most of us most of the time, then just fold it into the floor like it's not even there.
Like they say, it's better to "have it and not need it" than to "need it and not have it".
The Lazy Susan can also be used as a tray table if needed. But if you just don't need it, just make it disappear into the floor.
I suspect the Touring trims come with luxury captain's chairs for the second row and that's why the 8th seat won't fit in between. I also suspect you can have the dealer swap those out for the regular split bench w/ the 8th seat configuration.
Oh well, only time will tell, and fortunately it is growing short.
Thanks in advance to any folks out there who have some facts and would like to share them. Does the Touring model have a storage compartment in the floor between the two luxury cajptains chairs?
And has anybody seen how the lazy susan works? Is it like a divided bin? Could I throw a bunch of car clutter in it when I find myself driving past a good car wash place with 20 minutes to spare?
I bet either Honda or Toyota will have something similar to that by 07, maybe 06.
When I decide to buy later this year or early next, if I can get a similarly equipped '05 Sienna for less than the '05 Ody, the decision will be an easy one...
and what were people paying for the new sienna when they first came out? that is - if they could find the vehicle configuration they wanted (or were willing to accept)?
and weren't people having difficulty even getting an opportunity to drive one, because dealers didn't have them? i mean, not everyone is willing to buy a car they haven't seen or driven.
lynnw you say the honda is "over-priced"... if the vehicles (all trims) come standard with the side air curtains, and the vehicle stability control, and ummm floor mats - then when you match up the pricing to the comparably priced and outfitted sienna, i wonder if your opinion will change or stay the same.
According to buyatoyota.com, here are the MSRP's for the Mid-Atlantic region. Of course, expect Sienna prices to rise (again) in the near future.
- I paid 1700 off invoice for the very first listed model a couple of months ago.
- (safety features) = VSC + TRAC, side front seat & 3 row curtain airbags, rear disc brakes
- LE 8 psngr FWD is roughly equivalent to Ody EX, although you only get one power sliding door.
28,065 (safety features)
29,980 (safety features) + RES
- XLE FWD with leather & surround JBL sound is roughly equivalent to Ody EX-L, but has a power tailgate standard.
33,865 (safety features) + moonroof + sunshades
35,565 above + RES
36,060 above + NAV + backup cam
- LTD FWD with leather safety features, xenon HID's, laser guided cruise control, sonar parking assist, roughly equivalent to Ody Touring but with some extras.
37,190 RES
38,870 RES + NAV + backup cam
I know which portable you are mentioned. Those are larger than the walki-talki and more like a panel as in OEM but independent unit with smaller screen (4-5" diagonal). For latest top of the line, it also has built-in DVD reader for upgradeablility but cost you more than $1200. For that money, I will go with OEM. Below $1000 I will consider to buy it. NAV could be considered as safety to prevent lost and chance to ask stranger for directions. It's especially true for female drive alone. Sooner than later, it will be popular like cellular phone or integrated into it, so called Smart Phone which already sold in Asia.
Dealer always making money but not for nothing. They should provide good service and reasonable shopping environment. If they have hot products and low MSRP, they are lucky. Think they may have below par models need near Invoice or below to clear up the inventory, so of cause they will try to squeeze as much as they can from hot models. Have you ever feel guilty if they sell a car below their cost to you? Of cause not. Neither do I. If they go too much, you always has choice to walk away to other dealer or brand. That is the fact and we have to live with it. A friend of mine work in a Toyota dealer told me most dealers in Japanese brands can't specify the qty of all models. They have to accept the allocation for all models from MFR. They can't reject the not favor models to exchange or increase the hot modles until next calender year based on the number sold this year. It sound logical since MFR can't change the production rate for their lineup sooner than 6-9 months for scheduling parts purchased and production line change.
As to limited production to allow dealer to charge excessive profit is far from true. MFRs don't own the dealerships and their profit come from the number of vehicles sold to dealers. So they need to make as much as possible especially the hot models or the higher frofitable ones like SUV. It's their marketing responsible to forsee the need and suggest the number before finding the capacity in their production lines. Honda was known has poor marketing on this. When last gen of Accord in '98 debuted, they predict 70% will buy 4 cyn. and 30% buy 6. They end up with giving rebates to promote 4 and long waiting list for 6. The dealers have to charge over MSRP to make up the less profit on the 4 which even priced at Invoice. The next year they change to 50/50 to solve the demand. '99 Odyssey is another example. The estimate the demand only need 100k and first year produced only 60K. But the demand was so high and even they made near 150k in the 3rd year, they still can't keep up the orders. Anyone has the number of how many they will make in the first year?