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Comments
I am disappointed, my 2000 Durango went 80000 before the trans failed and it had 1 recall for an emissions PCM program.
I have a 1993 Cherokee with well over 200000 miles with no recalls or problems at all.
Chrysler seems to have gone cheap on these jeeps.
The engine may be strong but the peripherals seem to be nothing but trouble. I really hope this is the last time it needs to be in the shop for anything other than routine maintenance.
I was hoping to get 250000 to 300000 before having to worry about major repairs, and this is the 2nd time for the transmission.
Right know I have two recalls pending - one for lower ball joints and one for the torque converter. I have already replaced my lower ball joints myself with high quality greasable units and I have not received a mailing yet on either recall.
I am going to wait until I get the mailings on the recalls and take my time calling for an appointment and make the appointment as far into the future as possible. If I can get another 15k miles on the old converter before getting the new one there will be 15k fewer miles on the new one.
I don't care about the ball joints. I will watch those I have until they need replacing. I figure DC owes me a set when ever. I am not sure on the torque converter. I may spring for the parts and do the work myself so as not to have the engine detuned. If it turns out the new programming only reduces torque during the shifts then I'm okay with that.
Nescosmo.
Yes, if you inspect them on a regular basis. Some seem to last a lot longer than others. But don't trust them unless you have inspected them and know where your are.
They said they were in poor shape. That was at 55000 so you may be able to get about that far.
If you have the Service Contract the ball joints are warranted for the life of the contract. Our 2002 Dakota had 4 sets of ball joints replaced in 92,000 miles and needed more when we got rid of it!
Farout
Don't get me wrong I like the diesel and the Jeep but by now, DCX and VM Motori should have gotten the problem fixed. I was an automotive engineer for 16 years and with Ford after 54 issues it was back to design to correct the problem.
Has anyone put the 4.7L V-8 engine in the Liberty? It should mate to the 545 tranny.
Necosmo and Farout,
By "inspect" I mean accurately measure axial (vertical) play in the ball joint. :surprise: The maximum axial play is 1.5 millimeter (a little under 1/16 inch). Learn how to do the inspection or have it done by someone who does know how. At a minimum, the inspection requires a dial indicator, a floor jack and a piece of wood to protect the lower control arm from the floor jack. I agree visual inspection is useless.
I did find out that the reason for the TC replacement is for problems while in Park and Neutral the trans makes a noise and even if there is no noise it's only a matter of time. If the two filters need replacing we pay for the filters and pay for the oil beyond what the TC holds. That is rather cheap of DCX i think. Because I have the Max care warranty I do get a car while they work on mine, which is going to take 1/2 a day they say. I will tell ya how it all comes out on Thursday.
Farout
Farout
Farout
Does the TC fit also effect the vehicles with the HEMI engine? as this tranny is used with these engines, or is there something different in them with the gas engine?
Farout
The TC isn't changed yet they are going to do it when the throttle valve is changed. My service manager eluded to the fact there are other items with the TC plus new programs for the PCM and the TCM. I will post the results if I even notice any different in driving. I do have a slight shutter or engine miss after loading the engine and taking the foot off the gas (oh diesel) pedal.
As far as the Zoom TT we like it a lot, issues are the high use of wood filler and other fit and finish. I have posted much on this site:
http://www.dutchmen-rv-forum.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=29
on the Zoom.
Are you able to change the lower ball joints without having the front wheels re aligned? Mine seem to whit stand wear because I have 86,000 KM now.
Did you have the heat dissipation fins mounted between the disks and ball joints on yours? According to DC, this should have been the remedy :confuse:
Thanks!
Farout
Farout.
Farout
One of the few advantages of tension ball joints is that the tension keeps the ball centered on the wear surface maintaining alignment during wear. Since the joint is pressed into the spindle as opposed to bolts or rivets it is accurately located when replaced. Another advantage is that the spindle is smaller and lighter since it does not have to extend below the lower control arm as with a pressure ball joint. The answer to your first question is yes I was able to press in new lower ball joints without having the front wheels aligned. Not only was alignment maintained by but the steering is more precise and lighter on center on the highway and it is easier to follow a precise line through a corner.
The answer to your second question is yes I did have the heat dissipation fins mounted between the disks and the ball joints. One of the joints was at 1.5 mm so I decided to replace them both with Moog “Problem Solver” ball joints that are greasable. The old ball joints were not dry but grease was not abundant.
http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/downloads/PSL200527010PrematureBallJointFailure- - OnJeepLiberty.pdf
There appears to be 3 problems with the lower ball joints. First, from the Moog site the ball stud needed to be extended to prevent corrosion from damaging the stud leading to it breaking off (not really an isssue with a greasable joint). Second, the heat shield cure is intended to keep the grease seal from being damaged by heat leading to the ball joint drying out and wear failure. The third problem has to do with specification change below what the engineers initially recommended.
http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-2005.html
From the Allpar site:
An engineer wrote, “The [ball joint] specifications were changed, the durability cycles were changed, as well as the loading factors, all downwards from standard JTE specs. This was to follow a directive to reduce cost of SUV parts, because, as so many people have noted here, SUV's aren't used offroad generally. The point is, the joints have a full lifetime as designed and predicted. The issue is not with the parts being poorly made, the issue is the wrong spec was used.”
This seems to have originated by an argument between the Executive Engineer (just below VP of Engineering) of Vehicle Development (who was an old Jeep guy) and Financial (which had the backing of Bob Eaton). The parts meet the specification, but the specification was changed to save money - as with Neon head gaskets, AC, and exhaust donuts.
It is noteworthy that on the new Grand Cherokee and on the Dodge Nitro (which is supposedly based on the Liberty chassis) DC has gone back to pressure ball joints and bigger spindles that extend below the lower control arms. I have not seen the new 2007 Liberty yet, but I suspect and hope it is the same as the Nitro. Once you hold one of these little tension ball joints from the Liberty in your hand you may get the same sudden cold chill that I got when I realized what little there was holding my Liberty off the pavement on the interstate. The Moog joints are heavier, look to be made of better steel and are greasable, but there is limited space to improve on the existing joint. I will be getting out my dial indicator at each oil change to inspect the ball joints to obtain a wear history.
My CRD is running very well today, I seems to have more power since the computer was reset yesterday, but it still need parts. :sick:
Farout
I fully agree with what you wrote and understand the money issue involved with using better parts. 35 years ago people discovered 'Quality Assurance' could make them save a few dollars and have better quality (seen from a narrow window).
I am also a potential customer for "Moog" greasable joints. There are two questions that come to my mind:
- does the original ball joint break because it's spherical seat wears to the point that the ball can escape by having 'eaten' it's way out (corrosion plus excessive traction force) or is it fatigue due to the mechanical stress underneath the sphere?
- could the alteration of the protective skirt and grease packing of the ball joints be related to brake life, in terms of long exposures to over heated disks when people keep their foot on the brake pedal, gearbox engaged continuously and don't have the heat spreading fins?
As to your first question I believe it is the first instance of having "eaten" its way out based on what I have read and observed. However, it could be both, especially as the load carrying area wears thin. Evidence, some instances where when one ball joint pops apart the additional load pops the other side also. The extreme narrow angle of incidence of the load carrying surfaces relative to the direction of load can lead to creaking and groaning when turning giving a little warning before catastrophic failure. One article referred to something called "stick slip" where the ball sticks to the seat at one position and releases with a thud when additional turning force is applied. My CRD appeared to have that and it went away with the new ball joints.
As to your second question I simply don't know or want to speculate.
- How long did it take you to change the ball joints?
- Did you completely dismount the suspension?
- Do you use a press or simply a screw type pusher / extractor?
- Where did you orientate the grease fittings?
I plan to change my disk brakes next fall and perhaps I will change the ball joints as well. My timing belt will also be due for change by then
I would not think so because you don't need a biometric passport to come to the EU.
If you do not count the time jacking up and down the vehicle, rounding up and putting away tools it took around 2 hours per side working at an easy pace.
Leaving the control arms in place, I completely dismounted the spindle.
I used a hydraulic press, but I think you can leave the spindle in place if you use a screw type tool designed for the Liberty - saving a lot of time.
I oriented the grease fitting to the front for ease of greasing although one could argue that facing rear would protect them form road grime better. I used synthetic grease.
If you lift the front wheels of the truck by jacking from under the lower suspension craddles, you then compress the ball joints instead of pulling on them. This can possibly open a gap between the seat and the ball to let fresh grease go in with a seringe. It's a last minute fix but could help a "desperado" (we use the same word here
I'm inquiring to buy a set of Moog ball joints; they seem to be sold everywhere.
I asked the service writer why this recall was being done, and he said he would have an answer when we picked up the Jeep that evening. What I got was 36 pages of the recall notice and a step by step how to do this recall for the Tec doing the work. The 36 pages are very detailed, and it has steps to follow for the 2005 CRD and the 2006 CRD. I do not know what but there is some difference between the two years. The instructions also tells what to do if there is no indication that there is a problem with the transmission. Not all CRD's get the TC, some get other transmission work done. There is several steps and different repairs for different things found. Some get the radiator and fan removed to do the work as well.
Just a bit of information I found in these 36 pages. There were 11,200 CRDs made from the start in late 2004 to may 2006 for a total of 11,000. Then between may 06 to Nov. 2 2006, 200 more CRD's were made at different times. So what ever these 200 more CRD's are used for is unknown at this time. Maybe more testing was needed, or ........?
I hope that this gives someone here some idea what this recall is like.
Farout
I can't wait to go back with a part number to educate him.
My dealer said because they replaced nearly 7 quarts of trans fluid, that a service was good until 40,000 miles. We have about 25,300 miles so far in 15 months. How much is diesel where you are, we pay $2.44 at the WalMart gas station, otherwise it is any where form $2.47 to $2.59. I get the very best fuel mpg at the WalMart station. We have got at best 28. mpg.
We had a Dodge Magnum with the 2.7 V-6 yesterday while ours was in getting the recall done. I was so very disappointed! This freakey looking station wagon with so many blind spots, makes an excellent Hearst.. The dash and doors are nothing but cheap looking, and feeling plastic!
I would say if DCX does not start making some vehicles that have some pleasing looking on the outside, and have something that looks like quality on the inside, then maybe KIA ought to show them how to. I use to think KIA was garbage, but now Dodge has stooped to being even lower than KIA> We hot less than 25 mpg in this odd looking low rider!
Our CRD rides smoother than that Magnum! The Enterprise said this station wagon is a hard one to rent, so they let auto dealers rent then for $15. a day, or they just sit. Well if the rest is like this one I can see why.
Farout
Hope all is well with you and your's !!!
My CRD build date is 2/06.....do you think my CRD should get the recall F37 ??
thanks,
Skeeter
Now that you can lock the converter into 5th gear at 50mph is a real improvement for getting better mileage. This feature uses the full efficiency of the variable vanes of the turbo.
But knowing that pure horsepower is the product of torque and angular speed (rpm), the engine will give all it can to remain at 50mph. There will be a penalty to pay when driving on winding roads or at full cargo unless we have a switch for selecting between "sport / winter" conditions. Such an option already existed on german cars many years ago.
My CRD 2/05 build has always shifted into 5OD @ 50 mph.
I am waiting on parts to take mine in and it sounds like it will run better than ever.