Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Just to give you something to think about, the 2007 Nitro, which the Liberty should be basicly the same in measurements inside, only has about 4 to 6 more inches in the back,. But when we only have 29 cubic feet back seat up, every little bit helps. I do like the fact the spare tire is not on the back door. I think the Liberty will be nice. Of I read in Motor Trend (Jan 2007 issue) the test Compass DCX gave them to test drive cost $31,075.
Just to give you something to think about, the 2007 Nitro, which the Liberty should be basicly the same in measurements inside, only has about 4 to 6 more inches in the back,. But when we only have 29 cubic feet back seat up, every little bit helps. I do like the fact the spare tire is not on the back door. I think the Liberty will be nice.
Oh, I read in Motor Trend (Jan 2007 issue) the test Compass DCX gave them to test drive cost $31,075. That is unbelieable! That is almost what a Liberty Limited cost that's really deckes out! The article on page 48 had almost nothing good to say about the Compas or Caliber! DCX wake up or KIA will have to bail you out, after KIA helped design this new "World Engine" that is being used instead of the very good Neon engine you used before!!!!!! Can we say dumb ideas at DCX!
http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html Go to "Aerodynamic and Rolling HP Loss Calculation".
The following inputs do a fair job of calculating my MPG before ULSD, winter fuel and new EGR valve/reflash.
Drag coefficient = 0.421
Frontal area in sq ft = 29.74
Miles per hour = 65
Weight in lbs = 4800 (4300 + people and cargo)
Tire Pressure lbs/sq in = 35
Fuel consumption in gal / hour 1hp = .0435
Drive train hp loss = 11.0
Drag coefficient and frontal area are from an suv web site.
The gal / hour - hp is from a chart posted on the VMMotori web site. Converting a graph to numbers is not that precise but the number seems to work. Remember, if you carry gear on top you add additional weight if it's gear that you would not normally cary inside the vehicle.
The off road factory roof bars and lights have a substantial frontal area without carrying gear. And, the big cross piece on the rear adds additional drag but probably not twice a much due to deflection from the front (does not apply if loaded between the cross pieces).
So, you would increase the frontal area accordingly, the weight maybe and the gal / hour 1hp. The gal / hour 1hp would change a little with increased RPM. I just used 1,900 rpm to find that number because that is where I drive. You could probably leave gal / hour 1hp alone realizing that the reduction you calculate would be a little optimistic.
Add some guestimated frontal area, some speed and maybe some weight and see what your get before and after the roof rack.
"(with ULSD) I can sometimes feel a little jerking once in a while, when in 5th OD and doing 60mph." That's a fuel injector hanging up within the lower lubricity diesel, don't ya think?
By the way, in previous generations Europeans were not as tall as Americans but they are catching up fast, at least 4" taller for this last one. Since we have the same seats, how come I'm almost all the way back? Do you think we fold differently :confuse:
Farout
-The front canadian license plate plus the radio antenna stretched out were making a loss of 1MPG (Imperial)
-The side rear-view mirrors were also adding another MPG loss.
Today a 3 mpg loss for the Liberty's roof rack doesn't surprise me much.
"For those who have changed out their Goodyear Wrangler STs.
What did you choose to replace them with??? "
I swapped mine out right away with Firestone Destination AT tires, size 245 70 16. It is great on and off road. It has an agressive tread pattern but is very quite on the road. It improved the handling of the jeep considerably and eats up water puddles instead of hydroplanning needless to say I love these tires.
They gave me 50.00 for each of my ST tires So my total net cost with road hazzard was 350.00
The size 245 70 16 will rub in the rear if the springs are fully compressed but that only happened one time while off-roading and didn't do any damage.
Bought the Bridgestone AT Revo ($118 + $75 rebate)- rugged, aggressive look, awesome offroad. I'm waiting for some snow to wheel through as it's not as messy as the mud
Easy tip is trying- The Tire Rack link title
There you can choose your model, compare the tire makes and what's really helpful is the user reviews. Hope this helps, happy off roading.
Farout
Good luck.
Farout
Got my ball joints changed... now it wanders in its lane.
I don't want to take it in for the torque converter recall because it always comes back worse. 15 MPG driving normally in full time 4wd.
Got the goodrich 245/70r16 al terrain ta ko tires and they don't rub. Really stiff for the first 200 miles and a tendency to understeer on ice and hardpack snow which is all we have in Alaska for much of the winter. They're nice tires but there must be something better and cheaper for real winter conditions. Deep snow makes them work really well.
Every time I get in my CRD I hear a loud flushing sound.
Diesel is 2.96 per gallon. twenty cents more than premium gas.
I mostly want a tire that has better off road capability.
I am going in tomorrow for my torque converter recall. This message board is a god-send for information about a vehicle that is pretty uncommon and I've relied on it to help know what sorts of questions to ask the dealer about different issues. Everyone on here has been very helpful.
I think it actually helps them do a better job, knowing either where to look or that I'm somewhat aware of the typical issues with this model. They have always done a great job. A long time ago, on my work computer I signed up under one name, forgot the password and then if I sign up on that computer my old username and password get logged in automatically. On this computer, the one at home, I have this, my newer username that automatically gets signed into. I can't remember what emails and what passwords go with which. Anyway, I thought that deserved a rambling explanation.
Wish me luck with the torque converter/PCM/ECM reflashes. Pray they don't have to replace the entire transmission. Having had major things repaired under warranty with other cars (mostly Fords) I have to say the less they tear into things the better. I got a new transmission with my old Crown Vic and it never felt right after that. I am hoping this is a minorly invasive repair.
I had f37 done today. No problems at all-5hours from drop off to call from sm. Car runs exactly the same as before with shift points unchanged
I have had both bike carriers loaded, and a 14 foot kayak on the roof all at the same time. I took a drive from central michigan to southern west virginia. The roof top was not bowing down from the weight. I do think it's important to mention that the instructions with the factory ski carrier SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED not leaving them up when not in use, as it adversely affects fuel mileage. And I can say from having them up there, they are noisy in the wind, even louder than the other carriers. (They all have somewhat of a whistle, but the ski carrier is the loudest.) It's not outrageous noise, but I can hear them quite clearly. I will say this about mileage - last week I drove from Flint to northern Chicago and back towing a 10 foot enclosed trailer with a 600# motorcycle in it, through driving rain all the way both directions, and still averaged 20mpg. Unloaded I have never gotten better than 23 even on the highway. (11000 miles, 2nd EGR, no F37 yet.) I was never concerned about the tires in the rain, either. The factory tires aren't the best, but they will do until spring I think.
One of the major differences between the diesel and the gasser for a given vehicle is the higher efficiency of the diesel engine under constant load. This is a perfect combination when pulling a small trailer.
Driving around town is not where you can see a clean cut difference in efficiency between the two. Our engine does not perform perfectly well while changing regime whilst the gasser will be more efficient here.
Most taxis in large cities of the EU use diesel because they don't turn off their engines very often: they burn very little fuel when idling.
A similar observation was made in Geneva a few years back: we all had to turn off our engines while waiting at red lights. What came out of this study is that pollution rose beyond predictions and was much worse for health. We all needed to start and accelerate our engines at the same time to get going during a short period of time accounting for those who have difficulties or slower reflexes. Just observe the beginning of a race when pilots are standing together far from their vehicles parked along the pits: it's chaos!
Just for info, with winterized diesel fuel I'm getting the same city mileage a 1.4 Liter gasoline powered van gets. Such a van will burn 1/2 of what the CRD uses on an open road without load and it will burn the same as the CRD while pulling a load. Now if you compare in a 1:1 ratio between gas and diesel engines, the gasser burns twice as much in the city, the same on an open road without load and practically 50% more while pulling a load.
To conclude, excluding small diesels:
- the small gasser is best for driving around the county
- the CRD and small gasser are equivalent in the city
- the CRD and the equivalent gasser are even on the road
- the CRD is way best for moving loads around the country
The dealer has been fantastic with all this and kept me up to date on everything and transparent about what's going on.
I have to say that three weeks in a Chevy Cobalt is like some kind of punishment, I think.
Good grief.
I have to tell you, this is my first diesel and I found your post most informative! I have a few friends with diesels at work, but they are the big 6's (cummins) and V8s (chevy's and fords), so when I ask them questions, they give me a look like my crd is some little toy engine, and I'm the kid brother. I honestly don't know how the little critter works yet in comparison to a gasser. I have pulled and rebuilt several gas motors in my day, but never have had the time to do any research on the logistics of a diesels' basic inner mechanics. I bought the Jeep (because it has the diesel) for several reasons. One being the use of biodiesel, and a kit to make such is being shipped here right after the 1st. (I have friends who have been making the stuff for many years.) Another reason is the torque for such a small vehicle, and the last being fuel mileage. The fact is, here in America, the CRD was the smallest vehicle I could buy with a diesel that is manufactured here in the States. There are currently NO American car makers selling diesel cars, and I don't want or need a 3/4 ton truck. Even with it's quirks, I love my CRD!
I am so tired of this issue that maybe will see how the grand cherokee will do.
I'd venture a guess some of the really bad feelings towards the ST's might have improved with better tire pressure regulation. Oh, yes: I've gotten over 30 mpg (fill up-to-fill up) with the ST's on long trips. Hopefully that can be replaced when they are.
Mr. Nescosmo confirms my worst fears about recall work ! I'm holding off, then choosing the service place really carefully. Any tips for highly competent CRD service in the Pacific Northwest ???
- The size, comfort, choice of materials, build quality and ergonomics of the Liberty were designed for Americans and are put together in NA.
- The controllers or "intelligence" are common to most vehicles of the western world.
- The safety elements (brakes, shocks, wipers, safety belts, etc..) are also common.
- The engine is common to many other auto builders.
It's the specific selection of all these elements that makes a great vehicle. The compulsory emissions control add-ons are unfortunately threatening for an individual's budget. If you endeavor going bio, read carefully between the lines. I personnaly chose to withdraw because of conflicting observations relative to the tight machining tolerances of common rail diesel parts. I believe 15% gasoline mixed with 85% ethanol is a faster lead to clean air.
If national quality standards were available, as they should be and hopefully soon will be, the use of biodiesel wouldn’t be an issue. I agree E85 is a faster lead to clean air if and when they can get it to the pump. If our governments would make it a priority to incorporate both E85 and biodiesel it could end our reliance on Middle Eastern oil. In the mean time I’m willing to risk it and would run on 50% bio in the winter and 100% bio summers if it were available and I could be assured of the quality.
So I have this right: instead of reprogramming your existing module(s) they just installed an already programmed new one?
thanks.
If you think of anything else related to the issue, please post it. I believe the recall, eventually will include everyone with a Liberty Diesel. Which is pretty much everyone on the board. It's nice to know everything possible!
You say that your are willing to risk these problems, and you well may be able to do so. However there are many who might take your willingness to mean there is no warranty problems in doing so. Caution is the word I would use when advocating the use of Bio fuel above B-5. As you so accurately say quality (and bacteria) are huge problems in regular diesel fuel, and adding Bio fuel into the mix makes for uncertain length of the use of this CRD engine. V M Motori has a standard reference web site they refer to when asked about Bio fuel. This 9 page report clearly states with the signatures of the engine part companies not to use Bio fuel above B-5.
This is not intended to belittle your choice, but to inform you and others that there is a deffinate serious risk when using Bio fuel. In my opinion any sayings in making your own Bio fuel offers little or no savings in time or money, but offers a serious risk that few can absorb, the cost of repairs with a complete engine out of warranty.
Farout
Thanks,
Skeeter
Thanks,
Eric
link title
I did look at that CRD on ebay, wow that is a lil' more than I would want LOL !!! I am only interested in about 2"-2.5" lift !!! But thanks again for the link, it was a sight to see LOL !!!
Skeeter
How ya do'in Farout ?? Hope both of your Jeep's are doing good !!!
Shoulda checked the level when I got it back, but they have been doing real well for me so I presumed they did the job right. Not sure how this will end, I would like the trans inspected at the very least and a rental car.
Not sure about everyone else, I love my CRD but getting tired of recalls, egr valves, paying for rental PT Cruisers and technicians who don't test drive or check fluid after F-37 recalls. The SRT-8 Grand Cherokee was looking pretty sweet sitting in the showroom...or maybe a charger.
Farout
I,ve never complained to the stealership but some issues needed to be diagnosed and resolved cause I was getting fed up, it went to -20c here for a week and things came to a head:
1) Turbo sounds like it will self destruct at 2000-2500 rpm under load, going up hill, is getting worse and is leaking oil all over engine mount. D/S says leaking oil is normal and DC had a catch basin at one time but owners never emptied it, so its been omitted now? Thats the stupidest thing I ever heard. So after 3 days at the shop they tell me its the alternator? The noise is plainly coming from the passenger side near the Turbo, cause its loud as hell and changes with throttle load. Wait, this is Gold, when they first test drove it to trouble shoot, on the invoice it says(I still laugh about this)"SOUNDS LIKE A DIESEL". They change the alternator and same thing, what did they expect? They don't know what to do, so there's a call into DC engineering. What they did find is when they disable the EGR, the noise goes away. Is this whats meant about a faulty EGR I read all the time, it is definetly affecting the turbo in a bad way?
2)The torque converter locks up at 85KPH, this is normal. Whats not normal is the RPM at which the lock up occurs changes, sometimes 110 KPH is 1700rpm and sometimes 2100rpm. So when the lower rpm lock up occurs and you slow down to 100 it will disengage because it dropped lower that 1500rpm then immediately re-engage again at a higher rpm? DS says this is normal as it needs to downshift to make it up a hill and needs to rev higher so the tranny oil can keep everything cool. They give me this long B-S story and tell me to go home, think about what they said and see if I can make that work for myself...WTF!..... Question, driving at 60 (45mph) and you floor it and release when the RPM start to climb, do this 4-5 times, I can keep the engine at 3500rpm with no increase in speed? Can you owners find the same? The LAG in these rigs is not the turbo, its the crappy gas torque converter and gas tranny!
3)Stuttering and shuddering, what can I say? Its been there from day 1 and I can live with it but with everything else happening, I don't think so.
The dealership gave me my rig back on Friday after changing the alternator, my family and I are travelling up to Mckenzie BC which is a 26 hr round trip in the middle of nowhere and bloody cold. I expressed my concern at accepting the vehicle back when there's a grinding noise from under the hood and that the turbo might grenade and FOD the engine! They said" well, we'll know what the problem is and you can have a new engine if that happens" What the hell kind of customer care is that! Were leaving on the 27, should I go back there and complain more or take a chance :confuse: ? They said DC will call them next week about what to do next with my rig. In the mean time, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas!
Cheers
Caribou1
I will update after dealer checks it out for me. I can honestly say this instance does not motivate me to keep the CRD.
Appreciate all the info, and I read nearly all that is posted on here. Have a good holiday season.
Cheers,
Have a Blessed Christmas.
Mr. & Mrs. Farout
1. They should fix your EGR valve or your turbo. Or both.
2. I think part of this wonky operation is normal. Depends on load when you shift. However I think the issue around 3500 is and the goofy amount of lag you are getting is a faulty turbo. My Merkur XR4Ti acted this way just before it went out.
3. Stuttering I do not have, so I do not know.
Yes it sounds like you may have a faulty turbo.
I would go to the dealer to get them to change it out first.
I would also check the wear on the serpentine belt as a worn serpentine belt would transmit a whiny noise under no load.
If your looking for a little more performance out of her ,you might try some of these suggestions.
I have had good performance and no complaints of yet with my 05' Liberty.
1/ Have you had an oil change yet?
I have always used the mobil 1 0W40 with no problems.
you may have a turbo lubrication problem.
The dealer carries the mobil 1 0W40.
2/Fill up with a premium diesel fuel and add a fuel additive regularly.especially in the winter monthes.
There will be generally 2 or 3 grades of fuels depending the station you go to.
I suggest B.P. Premium , Shell Diesel Ultra ,
Citgo ,Sonoco Gold.
3/Make use of the diesel Fuel additives .
Fuel injectors need to be clean for top performance.
Lucas top end lube - 6 oz per fill up , or..
Power service with "cetane improver", 1/2 bottle /fill up,or..
Stanadyne performance formula , 4 oz/fill up.
4/New air filter.
Hope this helps.
Happy Holidays...
Lightnin...
Happy holidays.