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Comments
I have been running larger tires-245/70 General Grabber AT2's. They are very sticky and create a speedometer error which I adjust for when I figure mileage. I may have lost 1 mpg due to this.
I run synthetic in the transfer case, tranny and diffs. I am due for a change but haven't noticed a change due to this.
I never seem to find choices in grades of diesel but will keep looking. Incidentally, running b-20 caused a significant improvement in quietness,mileage and power. Unfortunately, bio availability is poor in these parts and is summer only.
Your suggestion about using cruise sounds valid but would be murder on the interstate with 70 mph limits. Incidentally, mine does its final shift at 64mph which is again probably a function of the tires.
I just started using power service again. I previously noticed
no improvement maybe due to a younger engine. My 06 now has 55k. I'm using the grey bottle for the higher cetane. I have only seen one other color=white.
Well, Fri the 11th I am going on a 1200 mile trip. We'll see how it does, but I'm pulling a trailer so all bets are off.
Anyway, thanks for the help and we'll see if I can improve on 23 mpg.
I used powerservice white bottle several times and never noticed a difference. I did notice a difference when running on B20 or on Meijer brand premium diesel, which claimed to be higher cetane and based on how the CRD ran with it, probably was. (This brand is also my #1 choice in our Dodge Ram diesel.)
I have not seen any station that had multiple grades of diesel for sale. Instead, a few stations sell only premium diesel, while most stations sell only basic diesel. (In Michigan's UP some stations sell #1 diesel and #2 diesel year round, but I haven't seen this elsewhere and you wouldn't necessarily want #1 diesel even if you could choose it.) Basically whether you get premium diesel depends on whether you go to a station that sells premium diesel. If you have Meijer in your area, all their diesel is premium. Many but not all Mobil and Shell stations sell premium diesel - check whether the pumps are specifically marked as their brand premium diesel, or are simply marked with a plain "diesel" and no premium claims. Truckstop diesel is never premium because it has no benefit in semi's engines and costs a bit more. Basically you want to buy from a station that knows its diesel customers are driving VW TDI's and Mercedes diesels and therefore care about the cetane and purity. The CRD engine has more in common with those car engines than it does with semi-tractor engines or their small cousins in heavy duty pickups, which are all tuned for the low cetane diesel standard in the US.
You can find Kleen flo ,911 power service at the major truck stops. there is usually a store there that sells it off the shelf.
Or even at a tractor trailer parts store.
About buying "Premium"
I look intentionally for stations that list both regular and "premiumor "Shell- Ultra", I believe it is #2 at citgo is the better fuel.I have had good results from this.
When I am going skiing/camping up in Northern Michigan, I usually stop at the B.P ,or Citgo along the hyway I 75. As soon as I see the Green sun sign I turn in .As I know they have a selection usually.Not all have it ,but I figure about 60% do.
I have seen it at..
Makinaw just before the Bridge has a huge station there near the University. And I have had good luck in finding those fuels in Birch run,Cadillac, Marquette,and Bessemer as well.along the hyway.
Yes I have seen U.L.S.D served at Meijer's .This, I had good results from,that is why I was referring it.
Oh Dcxman..make sure your tires are pumped up to 38 psi.This may help a bit.
Yes I agree that this may cause most of your mileage woes.
I run Sport Kings AT on mine .They are my winter tires.It is not as agressive as yours,but perfect for ice and snow on the hyway.I am averaging 28mpg in the Winter and 34mpg in the summer.
Where do you get you 5W40 Rotella,I haven't found 5W40 here at the stores in Windsor.just 15W40.
Also DCXman try using the cruise on the hyway.
Bring it up to 70mph set the cruise, then press decel till you reach 55-56mph, and achieve 1700-1800 rpm's.
I wouldn't worry about someone hitting you from behind,if you have a trailer.
What you could do is pass a mack truck on the hyway, pull in front, give your self some distance away from him. then set the cruise as I said. 70- then decel "in cruise" till your at 55,and the rpms settle out at 1700-1800.
If your in the trucking lane there isn't any speeders to worry about.
Oh what about your Air filter ?? check that to see if she needs changing..
How about trying Lucas formula ? I have had good luck with this.
Have you tried changing your fuel filter yet?
Also I have just changed my fuel filter. It wasn't so bad as some guys here claim .
I disconnected all the lines, and used a rubber oil filter wrench to crack it open,
I had my wife hold the new filter as I poured the fuel from the old filter through a funnel to the new one.put some oil on the rubber "O' rings" then spun it on.
And primed it with the pump on the side , and used the bleeder valve a couple of times to bleed of the air.I think it took me a 1/2 hr to change.
This may help??
I also heard some guys were getting better results from an ECM reflash.
Well I wish you luck as I hope the best for everyone here. I have had good results and wanted to pass on the message.
Good luck and good riding !
Lightnin..
I have not seen premium diesel fuel in Middle Tennessee. Oh yeah, I change oil on schedule B (about every 6,000 miles); I change the air filter at the same time as the oil change; I have synthetic fluids in the transfer case and differential; I use Stanadyne religiously; I am on my seventh EGR courtesy of Chrysler; and the oil plug is leaving little black pools at my parking places. Nothing I can thing of will appreciably improve the fuel economy of this vehicle. The best fuel economy was the first tank of fuel that I bought for the new Jeep. It's been down hill ever since.
Bmartinpe, between your low mpg, your EGR failures and your oil stains, I think it's time for you to look at lemon law options, or just outright replacement. We get mileage not far below what you're getting with either my gas engine Suburban (what I replaced the CRD with) or our diesel Ram 2500 4x4. I sometimes miss my CRD for its cool noises and tight turn radius, but I absolutely don't miss seeing the dealer every two months for a repair (which they usually didn't want to do and sometimes did wrong) or constantly wondering when something big was going to fail and strand me. The CRD has had on me the opposite effect that Chrysler intended - I will be wary of diesels, other than proven engines in pickups, for some time now, and even more so after the 2007+ emissions requirements. If I had just bought a gas Liberty I would probably still have it.
On a trip from my home in NJ to Niagara Falls Canada, I had 4 Adults including myself and a full truck load of luggage. I got over 27 mpg and ran the pig at 75-85 mph the whole trip. That cruise control at 55 is bull.
If you really do it, just don't be a jerk in the left lane at that speed. Just had to share as I have found very little difference in mpg and speed. I also fill up at a truck stop and use Lucas fuel treatment at every fill up. Good luck. There is a nice chip offered by EDGE products. if you go to autoanything.com they are offering the EDGE Chip and Cold air intake kit for $500. If I had the extra cash laying around I would jump at it. Let me know your findings.
Jim, First off I don't post bull. I post legit findings.
This SUV is the best I have had . and I come from a Jeep family. I know Jeeps.
Now back to the Fellow from Tennesee.
If you are finding that you are doing hyway driving through the mountainous roads,rolling hills,in agressive AT tires.You will take a hit on the mileage.
My method does work.
Before a long trip get the oil changed.even if you have a 1000 miles on her.
From city driving, can develop sludge in the oil and this affects mileage.
Your mission will be to find a station that serves a high cetane fuel.
This is the most important factor.
Fill up on B.P. Premium, or Shell Ultra, or Meijers U.L.S.D .or citgo whatever the premium is. I think #2 diesel.and Marathon ..
Plug in your oil pan heater on the cold nights.This will help in heating up your engine in the morning and help mileage as a hot engine produces better performance.also getting to that 5 th gear faster, as the engine needs to be running temperature to achieve otherwise you end up in 4th for 15 minutes,and 2500rpm's on the hyway.This can add up during the week.
I even go as far as using a winter front bra, that I made up from a liberty bra kit and sewn on a ram winter front with the buttons,The leather cover is great.It totally covered the front grill.This also came with a better bug screen than the stock chrysler one had.I can remove it easily and clean it .
When on the Hyway , drive in the trucking lanes at 55mph in cruise...If you are adament about saving mileage.Let the speeders go by.
Chrysler specifies, that you can save 20% on mileage if you drive 55, but most people don't ..and expect better mileage.
make sure your tire pressure is at 38psi.
Get an ECM reflash at the shop, as well as a transfer case check up..
Check the fluids on your drive trane, I am wondering if the transfer case is fine.
Fuel filter should be changed.
Use additives religiously
With the Stanadyne cetane inprover ,and water remover is a good combo , or add instead lucas with it on every fill up, or find a diesel conditioner that claims upper cylinder lube and water remover ," Kleen flo", or some "Methyl hydrate additive ", that takes water out of the fuel. It sounds like you could be a victim of some bad fuel.
Water and condensation is our enemy, and most don't realize they could be pumping 15% water into their tanks from the pump in the winter monthes.
Try a K&N air filter for her.
If the oil pan drain plug is leaking you can order a new one from the dealer parts center.Usually what happens , when the mechanic drains the oil most don't notice the washer between the plug and the hole, that falls out and the plug gets replaced without it.then usually over torquing the plug.and leaks develop.
Thats it ..peace Lightnin...
My oil pan plug that I salvaged from the last oil change is a straight plug without a head. They tried what they called an expanding plug which has a hex head and which did not stop the oil drip from the drain hole.
If there was a washer which serves the purpose as a garden hose nozzle washer, I'll bet that it fell unnoticed in the oil drain pan during an earlier oil change. Hmmmm, this will give me something to ask the dealer's staff about. I hope they didn't mess up the threads in that aluminum oil pan with that expanding plug.
I'm glad to read you're also happy with your rig.
I've had 112,000 Kilometers of pleasure so far :shades:
What difference of performance do you usually find between the major "private" fuel distributors and is there a difference with Petro Canada diesel? (I used to be one of their customers)
The best fuel I found (by accident) is Shell V-Power. I'm getting summer mileage during winter :surprise:
Can anyone report on the need for, or the results of, replacing their solenoid filter?. The owners manual states " Inspect the boost pressure solenoid filter. Replace as necessary" This is a $11.00 cost item from the dealer.
Now at 60K Km and enjoying the CRD, a sweet machine.
The little filter prevents dust and little objects from getting into the air filler tube. If you pinch or block this tube, the variable turbo vanes will not move fast enough.
I was going to a station about 20 mile from Windsor , as I used to live out in the county.My dealer is there.
There was the Pilot , and Esso stations.
The pilot was a major truck stop, and had the diesel conditioners which I bought from them when I was there.
Their fuel was just regular so..so fuel..but the price was 89 cent/litre
so even though I took a hit on mileage it was the right price. I was getting 23 mpg average.
I live in Windsor Ontario. Here they just built a new Shell station , and it is a V power station...There are 2 diesel pumps . one that says,"diesel " and one that says "diesel ultra" I pay a 1.09/ litre but it's worth it, because of the performance I get from it.I noticed it there when the ambulances and fire rescue trucks fill there diesel with this stuff. So it's has to be good. It has produced the best mileage , compared to others.
Petro Can diesel hasn't satisfied me on their fuel.Their price is high, and their regular diesel only gets me about 23 mpg. Although there is a Sonoco downtown that serves Diesel Gold, it is a regular diesel fuel , but I have been getting 26 mpg on average with it.It is the "best " of the regular "fuel" I have found in Canada. Thats why I go to my favorite shell mostly here.
There is also a truck stop off the 401 just in Windsor,at the Husky. They serve cheap regular fuel.
Oh by the way my fellow brother Americans.If you find you have to come to Canada for any reason , ..fuel here is $450/gallon..We talk in litres, just times that by 4 and you got the price in gallons.Thats why you are going to alot of Canadians filling up in the states now.
When State side I look for the Green sun sign of B.P. off the hyway.It is my favorite state side fuel. If you go to an independant station instead of a franchise you'll find the fuel to be on average stale, as they have a tendency to keep their fuel longer, compared to the ones off the hyway or near an expressway.
But if you come across a Citgo, or a Marathon. Look for the most expensive diesel they got. Hopefully they'll have a choice.
But now that Meijers' has High cetane Diesel now. They call it their super clean fuel..
And it is U.L.S.D . because it says of the side of the pump less than 15 ppm.sulfer content.
I got 28 mpg from that fill up. But you see I always use a cetane improver added to the fuel, and either lucas every other week for old fuel, and ..or Kleen Flo/power service 911 to take the water out of the fuel.
You have to be careful , some conditioners say water dispersant, look for water eliminator. This has a high content methyl hydrate, like power service 911.
Some Farm tractor dealers carru Methyl hydrate.Or fo you go to the Co-op station they'll have it on the shelf.Because the farmers have been using diesel for years.
For the cold weather , getting a winter front bra and modify it so that the leather cover is solid and covers the Rad totally. She heats up quicker in the cold mornings.
I ended up getting a winter bra kit for my Liberty from the dealer, then buying cover for a Ram and installing the buttons and cutting and sewing it to fit.also regularly plugging in the core heater. She heats up within a minute, when I am on the road after doing this.
Later fellows..
Lightnin..
I confirm your observation:
This fuel does not compare to others. I used a tankful over the weekend in wintery conditions with 4WD engaged and got 11.10 Liters%KM
Unfortunately it costs more:
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/VPower_D_Shell.JPG
Thanks in advance! :confuse:
If it is really really cold it can also help to start with a warm battery as well - a cold battery does not turn over the engine as well. And at that temperature you may need to add a diesel additive to keep the fuel from gelling.
Good luck.
(look here for picture: jeephorizons.com/ news/2005kjspecs.html)
What is a good diesel additive & how often does it need to get put in?
Thanks
Look behind or around the oil dipstick holder. The dipstick has a yellow handle. The cord is black. My CRD had the heater cord attached to that with a plastic strap then bundled up with another. Get a stepstool or something and look around there with a flashlight then carefully remove the strap that has the cord bundled up. Route the cord so it does not rest directly on metal, moving or hot parts as this may short it out or worse. I saw an add for this wonderful little contraption called the Arctic Leash. It is basically a self contained extension cord that rewinds itself I would love to have one of those puppies. Anyone got a few extra buck to give me?
Anyhow, had to take off the black cover thing that says Jeep on it, because it was buried under there & that was the only way I could get to it. The black cover thing broke where its hooked on underneath. The only thing that is holding it down now is the oil cap, where it screws on on top of it. Is this black cover thing really necessary? Probably is right? just thinking money wise here how much will a new one cost? Can I drive my Jeep without it?
You may notice some high pitched noise occasionally.
As to cost, they want $80 for the turbo hose I can only guess what that piece of plastic is worth.
Got it running, all by my girly self!!
Thanks for help everyone!!
I have used Power Service and one other brand that I can't remember offhand and both worked fine - which is to say I had no gelling when using either one. Fuel that's bought in the same place where it's going to be used is normally winterized so it won't gel at realistic temperatures in that area, but if you buy fuel someplace warm (like the desert) and then go park someplace cold (like mountains at 10,000ft) you may have fuel not winterized sufficiently. Same if you bought fuel in summer and it was still in the tank in winter, though I assume that's not an issue for you.
To make it simple, I wouldn't get hung up on brand for the anti-gel fuel treatment. Just buy one that looks good from the label and use it according to directions. Be aware that other than Diesel 911 and its competitors, you must put the additive in before fuel gels, because the standard anti-gel fluids won't melt fuel that's already gelled.
I like using lucas because , even though it is not a water eliminator , it can be used as a last resort if nothing else is available.
It is still an anti gel conditioner/injector cleaner.It is better than nothing.
Especially if you are experiencing cold temperatures or, warm then cold temps ,fuel clogs and gells at the injector. This helps keeping them clean.
But I believe 'Power Service' to be very common at most stores now.
And , found the best conditioner has been 'Stanadyne'.
I plan on getting a pale of Stanadyne performance formula delivered to my house once a year .So far I have seen the best results from this stuff.
Driving the liberty at 70-75 mph and in mountainous regions, you will find your mileage will drop -4mpg on average, Mainly because of the speed /aggressive tires you are pushing the engine to run that turbo , which will "suck " the fuel like crazy.
but it is still better than a gas engine, or a V8 diesel , mileage wise.
Drive 55 and you'll save...If there is a way , whether it is the price of fuel, or just learning to be more patient getting up earlier for work, and having a coffee ,with slow driving on the hyways. I just give myself space with the trucking lanes.
If it is a race you want ?? lets see who can get the best mileage ??
Just come live in Canada for awhile where Diesel is $5/gallon.
Already people here have slowed down their speeding, just because of the price of fuel.
I See in the in the state of Michigan that U.L.S.D . diesel fuel is becoming more popular.It seems that more stations are supplying it.
Sonoco has these red colored diesel pumps , with the logo "premium" on it. and states it is U.L.S.D.
I can't give you any stats , because we were driving my buddies Diesel 3500 Ram
dually. I do know that my buddy did say that my "magic bottle" worked, but I believe it is because the quality of the fuel we chose.
He stated , He usually gets 14mpg , now getting 18mpg. I made sure he got an oil change before we left. And I dropped in some P.S 911 just in case of the deep freeze we encountered up in Cadillac .It was -23 C /0 deg F. but GREAT skiing and snowing like crazy there !.
Well guys and ladies talk to you later..
and good hunting ! for fuel that is....
Lightnin...
Homer
19-21mpg city in cold weather
20-21mpg city in mild or hot weather
23-24mpg in commuting with a lot of highway driving (55mph)
24-25mpg typical freeway
25-27mpg freeway for 100's of miles at a time (road trips)
30.5mpg best ever tank, entire tank was at 55mph with no stop signs or stop lights in a very rural area
All mpg is based on tracking fuel purchases vs. odometer in a spreadsheet, my CRD didn't have a trip computer.
Read my numerous posts for why I no longer have my 2005 CRD. Be mindful of what you may be getting into, especially if you don't like wrenching.
I live in Windsor Canada ..across the border.
I would say don't worry about the "timing belt" unless you are having problems with it now, I would say wait till 130K save some money then get this important work done all together..
This puppy is sturdy enough to handle 130K wear on that " belt".
It is a $500 fix ..
And while you are getting that done , you should get a new serpentine belt put on at the same time..While everything is apart. to do the timing belt , put new pulleys and tensioner on for the "serpentine belt" As I have had some problems with noise , but it didn't affect the engine. just an irritant in the summer.
It is a safe investment. The way I look at it is what you save in tuneups on a gasser , you are paying for it in belts on this engine.
.Oh ! I did have a problem with noise coming from the pulley bearings, off the alternator. It was a loud Clicking .."Wheeee" noise...
I had them do a serpentine belt change with all the pulleys including a new alternator . This fixed the problem.All warranty work ,no charge.
I figure I am good for another 80K.
I have 109K on my Liberty. just the typical EGR problem , which was fixed once. haven't had a problem since I started using "the premium fuels+ fuel additives" I believe it helps anyway...
Other typical things that needed maintenance was the brakes were warn after 80K . I got them all changed with new pads.
bought them from a NAPA Auto parts store and had my favorite mechanic put them on.If your handy you can do them yourself.
I paid a premium for them , but I ended up getting thicker rotors than the OEM Mopar brand, and the pads were ceramic. Which is pretty much the standard these days.
I do the maintenance thoroughly on her as I use this beast for everything.It is not just a commuter to work , but my fun vehicle to carry my bikes and tow my trailer, plus carry my budds to our favorite ski pubs. It is mostly a hyway traveller.As We usually go to Cadillac/Caberfae peaks as a $59 warm up ski trip.before our trips out west. I am planning a trip to Snowshoe WV at the end of February.
9 hrs drive from Windsor. huge night life there.
Well catch you later...
Lightnin...
This will help your starting and mileage.
Fuel is your main concern. Getting good fuel is a must, if you want to get good mileage. take a couple of hours on a weekend to hunt for gas stations that are near you, that carry diesel fuels , that are U.L.S.D . Look for pumps that say "premium" or "ultra" At this time I paid $3.35/gallon for the stuff. It will be more expensive but a good investment in mileage and maintenance.I like B.Por Sonoco..
The other part is look for fuel additives at the autoparts stores ,like
PowerService , Stanadyne, lucas formula Kleen Flo...
Read the directions on how much to put in.."every fill up"
Power service I
put in 1/3 bottle every fill up, to get the maximum cetane injection,plus anti gelling the fuel.
And before any long trip get that oil changed !
You will watch your mileage go up...if you drive "55"..notice I didn't say go ahead and speed at 75? and listen to the sucking sound and your fuel gauge dropping...
use your OH console to watch your mileage and press reset while your on the hyway after cruise is set...
Good luck !..
lightnin....
Don't just listen to people who have had a bad experience. There are plenty of owners (I am one) who have had little or no trouble with the CRD. Reliable mpg for me is 23+/- in cold weather (and it does get very cold here) and 25+/- in the warmth. The drop in MPG is due to winter diesel and the cold weather sapping the engine heat. I don't drive slow either.
The Jeep starts in all weather and is great in snow and on dirt roads.
I have about 60k on my '05 which I bought new. Other than some very minor issues and recalls it has had only routine service. The only suggestion I would make is to be sure that the OEM Goodyear STs are removed. They are awful and dangerous.
I'm on my 4th winter with the same set of 5 BFG T/A tires. They are noisy but never seem to wear out; I wonder what's wrong with them? I still have 3/8" of rubber left after covering 54,000 miles. (this is what keeps my bill low)
Hard to keep it at 55, I kinda have a lead foot.
Thanks for the info, learning lot more bout my Jeep, thru this forum.
3 EGR valves, ball joints, and the TC recall, thats it. The EGR going out was a pain, but the dealer (VA&F) was very helpful. Overall I am very happy with it. By the way, my business is SW in G'ville and I lived there or Jenison for many years. I have been told that there is an independant service garage in GR that specialises in the diesels that were used in the early Sprints. Haven't found them yet.
Homer
Thanks for the reply, 130 sounds good, that will give me another year. The mechanic I talked to said the timing chain itself would last for the life of the engine, it was the plastic guides that wear out.
I pull a 3,000 lb travel trailer when the opportunity arrives. Does a great job, but when polling up a long grade and it is near the bottom of the RPM range it kind of "chatters". I think it is the torque converter slipping. are there any heavier duty converters available?
Homer
On a related note, on 05 CRDs the combination of bad tires, a limited slip rear diff, and no traction control is quite dangerous when in 2wd mode on wet or slick pavement. The problem is easily controlled by using 4-fulltime, but if you are in 2wd on a slick road you can get some surprising fishtailing. I nearly spun out once on a wet road (well above freezing, no snow or ice) that I didn't think was at all slick. Again, the tires are a large part of the problem. The 06 CRDs have traction control and an open rear diff, so this shouldn't be an issue with 06 models.
As for reliability - read lots of posts and see what you think. There are definitely some happy owners here. But hardly anyone who was posting when I bought my 05 CRD in January 2006 is still active here and a CRD owner. I gave up on mine when I had repeated incidents of waiting a week for parts, despite being in Michigan, only 90 minutes from Detroit and less than 3 hours from Toledo where the Liberty's are made. My dealer was part of the problem, but be really certain you have a great dealer if you're going to put any faith in them. The number of CRDs made was small and the engine parts and controls aren't common with anything else sold in the US. It once took 4 days just to get a replacement oil drain plug; 5 days for a replacement fuel line on the engine; etc. etc. With the CRD as my only personal vehicle (my wife has a truck, but she needs it for herself) and working a full time job, and the dealer having typical short hours, I couldn't rely on a CRD as transportation.
The Suncoast phone is 800-868-0053.
If you wan an all the way job on the tranny, this is what you need:
1-Suncoast TC
2-Trasgo shifter 45RFE-HD2
3-New style pump for the tranny
4-INmotion tuning for the CRD (Inmotionusa.com).
If you buy the Suncoast TC, they will sell you the Trasgo shifter at a sale price.
After this your tranny will be strong and all the issue that the tranny have will go away..
Nescosmo........
Belts run in dry atmosphere and normally live 60,000 miles. Chains last forever but are enclosed in a lubricating environment