Jeep Liberty Diesel

wvav8tor

People, is there any way to temporarily defeat the electronic stability program? In deep snow even with the ESP released I can still feel the brakes grabbing and power to the engine being reduced. I think this is greatly reducing the ability to maneuver in deep snow.

Thanks
dusty

caribou1

Do you still have a rear Trak-Loc differential on your truck and "part time" driving mode selector on the transfer case?
If not, the electronic traction control just showed you it's limitation

winter2

On most, if not all Chrysler products there is no way to fully disengage ESP. I have a 2005 CRD and did not purchase ESP because I could not fully disengage it.

caribou1

Hi winter2,
I only have ABS on my truck, and when it comes into action on ice or snow I have to set the transmission into Neutral to come to a full stop. Did we really need this feature? Not sure because my 13 year old Toyota diesel has nothing else besides 4 good winter tires and it stops on a dime. The Audi quattro has a nice transmission for modern people
As for traction, in up to 4" of snow my Toyota Corolla is even with my Liberty; when there's more snow or ice, I can rely on the Jeep. I already pulled a compact car out of a nasty situation: the BFGs provided sufficient grip on ice to pull the car that landed on a center isle and knocked off a road signalization pillar. The poor little thing had it's front wheels not touching the ground :sick:

mrmag00

I did some searching on the Interned and found a TSB for a 2007 Jeep Wrangler.
Electronic Stability Control Disable Feature For Modified 4WD Vehicles.

Maybe the dealer can look at that TSB and see if it may apply to other Jeep
products.
The TSB is as follows:
NUMBER: 05-001-08
GROUP: Brakes
DATE: January 18, 2008

Here is the link:
http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-tsb-recalls/tsb-electronic-stability-control-disab- - le-feature-for-modified-4wd-vehicles

I'll watch future posts to see if it works....

winter2

Good Afternoon Caribou,

My wife's 1998 Chrysler Concorde came with ABS and it was the first vehicle either of us had driven with this feature. It has proven helpful in panic situations and helped keep the vehicle controllable.

In my Jeep, the ABS seems more intrusive than on my wife's car and stops, although well controlled, seem uncomfortably long. At 42K miles I did a complete brake job with new rotors and pads. I purchased good quality high performance slotted and cross drilled rotors with Hawk pads. This turned out to be a major improvement over stock and stopping distances have shortened noticeably even with the ABS. I would like to find a way to disable the ABS, even temporarily to see if there is a difference in control.

I have had the ABS light come on when slipping on ice or snow but only once. Dealer said this was because the ABS was confused by the slippage.

winter2

The CP3 pump supplies the injection system with the high pressure fuel. My question is about the life of the pump. How long do they generally last before they fail or need rebuilding? I think our European friend(s) might have a better handle on this than most.

wvav8tor

Yes, I have both the Trak-lock rear end and Part time driving mode but it still suffers from the ABS engaging and reduced power to the engine. This action is the same as trying to get out of a deep hole while dragging one locked wheel or two. This is a piss poor sacrifice for added stability in my opinion.

caribou1

According to statistics reserved to members of my automobile club, road side repairs of European vehicles are related to fuel injection, metering and EGR problems other than empty fuel tanks, batteries and flat tires. I don't know the percentage of diesel users amongst members, but I know this CRD will be my one and only.

jeepon

I have a check engine light on and had the code read. it is a P1250 -(vacuum reservoir solenoid open ckt). I would like to check this issue out my self before paying someone to look at it. I need to know where the selenoid is located.

Thanks

warren9

Has anyone found a computer Guru that can reprogram the Trans. control module? After the stupidity of Chrysler the F37 caused a 10mpg loss. Never mind the hard starting. Thanks.

oscarfree1

june of 2008 i had to replace all 4 glow plugs. then the # 3 glow plug started going out, . i put my jeep in the shop on feb01,10 for the tenth time. i got it back on feb17,10. they put th egr valve in it for the 3rd time. and the #3 glow plug for the 5th time. no one can tell me what is causing the plug or egr valve to go bad. my engine light come back on feb19. so it is going back in the shop on the 26th. i called chrysler when it went in the shop on the 1st, they paid for it this last time. the lady said if it was the glow plug again it would be a unresolved issue. so i guess i will be talking to a lawyer.

warren9

EGR may screw up if any additives, beyond what is in on-road diesel, are used. Wonder if new timing, from converter recall, is causing hard starting. Firing after TDC?

CRD_Bullydog

Hello,

Sorry to hear you have had so many repeat problems. It seem that the dealorships don't know what to tell you or how to prevent these incidents. If you really like your CRD I would suggest you buy a $150 analyzer and cable to read the ECU codes yourself. It cost almost $100 per read at the dealorship.

To start, why so many EGR valves! Carbon from exhaust gas recirculation builds up on the valve and makes it stick in the wrong position. This doubles the problem because the valve then lets in too much exhaust gas and you make more carbon buildup. Some mechanics say it is your oil being sucked into the combustion chamber but in reality unless you are using excessive oil it is not the problem. The problem is the EGR valve itself. It is a piece of crap designed for the idiots that live in the Los Angles Basin. It reduces NO2 emissions but increases Carbon deposits and uses more fuel. This seem to be acceptable by Californicators but ruins reliability of great cars. Californicators do not seem to be able to adjust their driving problems by regulating themselves but need to stand on the backs of everyone else to breath air.... AAhmm, just cleared my own EGR valve.

So how do you fix this problem (not for CA. consumption)? Disable the EGR system! This can be done in two ways:
1. Unplug the MAF sensor on your air cleaner.
Costs $0. It will however set the amber check engine light "ON" in the upper right quadrant of the instrument panel. You need to have a "Code Reader" to check you ECU codes occasionally for real problems that may be stored there. Remember using this method causes the "Check Engine" light to remain on.
OR
2. Buy a simulated EGR circuit device and put it on your engine. Cost $250-350 one time charge. This device removes the EGR valve from the electronics that would control its opening and closing and tricks the ECU with realtime engine responses just as if an EGR valve was connected. No warning lights! The real EGR valve remains in the neutral position allowing clean boost air to flow to the engine and happy exhaust to leave no excess carbon anywhere. Where can you get one! JUST search the INTERNET for SEGR and you will find assistance.

Now to address the GlowPlugs. Problem is Carbon again! Glow plugs tightened up against the carbon are bent slightly and when heated and cooled repeatedly under normal use fail early.

When a new glowplug is needed, the hole where it screws in to the combustion chamber needs to be cleaned of carbon. After the old glowpug is removed, the mechanic rotates the engine with either a flywheel wrench or a pulley strap wrench until the exhaust valves for the cylinder in question are open. The mechanic can us a .17 or .22 caliber nylon rifle bore cleaning brush and (believe it) Hoppe #9 bore cleaner to disolve the carbon. Wet the bore hole Hoppes solvent on the brush several times and let set for 30 minutes. Then scrub with more solvent on the brush. Final step is to blow the hole dry with air which will exhust through the valves. Carbon flakes are to small to damage anything in the cylinder. Now a new glowplug can be inserted safely.

I have a 2005 Liberty CRD 128K miles, 1 EGR valve, 1 glow plug, 1 SEGR box.
31 miles per gallon highway, 28 City. 5W40 Winter oil, 10W40 Summer oil. Service interval 3500 miles (regular oil) 6500 miles (synthetic oil) Tire pressure as rated on tire wall, not over inflated or under inflated.

Happy Jeeping!

nylib

I too got a similar error code (P1252) indicating "Vacuum Reservoir Control Circuit High - Shorted To Battery - Tested and Needs SOP Vacuum Res. Solenoid (4606226AC) ". My Liberty has 69 K miles on it. The local dealer says that the part and repair is not covered under my 7/70 warrantee. They have ordered the part, a vacuum Reservoir Control Valve ( approx. $44) plus labor (probably another $124).
Does anyone have any insight on this problem?

mdamick

I have had the ABS light come on when I don't engage the 4WD and spin the rear wheels. With the light on the odometer doesn't work. Found that shutting it down for ~30 sec will clear issue. Very strange programming.
I really don't have an issue with the function of the ABS, it just takes some getting used to. Mine has been in the shop for 2.5 weeks due to a leaking water pump and some other leaks, takes time to order parts. I got 171000 mi out of timing and fan belts. The Dakota I am driving now does not have the same ABS and I just have to adjust my driving style on the icy roads.

mdamick

Check the earlier posts, I described a way to disable the EGR with no MIL for a few $ if you have some technical know-how.

winter2

I have left multiple strips of rubber on the road with my CRD and have never had the ABS light come on in 2WD. It did come on once in 4WD but that is when I was trying to climb a slippery embankment.

sthoge

We had the ABS light coming on on ours, took it in and it turned out that both front ABS sensors were bad. After they replaced them, we haven't had any problem with them since.

winter2

I contacted Bosch about the CP3 pump. They directed me to a couple of authorized Bosch injection shops.

Here is what I learned.

1.Change the fuel filter every 5000 to 10000 miles. Use the factory filter. Apparently the NAPA/Wix replacements do not filter well enough. One of the shops suggested adding a second fuel filter, but neither advocated replacing the stock unit with something like a Racor.
2. Regularly use fuel additive(s) that lubricate the pump, disperse water and improve the cetane. Stanadyne, Redline, Amsoil were mentioned by both shops. The use of Marvel Mystery oil was not recommended by either shop nor was the use of kerosene, even in small amounts.
3. Biodiesel was also on the list of things not to use on a regular basis, even B5. The quality or lack there of is the issue. They both seen increased amounts of algae/fungus in the blend versus straight diesel.
4. With good care, a CP3 pump generally lasts about 200K miles, the injectors about 150K.
5. EGR issues. The "nose blowing" that Caribou advocates is a good thing to do. That helps clear out accumulated soot.
6. If anyone decides to purchase a diesel in the future, it will more than likely have a DPF. You cannot and should not perform the aforementioned "nose blowing". It messes up the DPF.

caribou1

Hi winter2,
The Bosch injection shop technician seems quite conservative :P
1. We change fuel filters every 25,000 miles and my truck came with a Racor filter assembly.
2. We are told not to use additives and our winterized fuel was mixed with up to 20% kerosene in volume.
3. Biodiesel is out, the "mixture" is now made with liquefied natural gas.
4. 200K miles for the pump but the pressure regulator should give less.
5. Renault "road angels" published this trick first. They also issued a technical note explaining how to clean their EGR valves.
6. I'm not sure I will ever buy another diesel. I've driven many in 40 years and what we are proposed today is no longer made in the spirit of simplicity.

winter2

Hello Caribou1,

The need to be conservative on this side of the pond is quite legitimate.

1. The quality of diesel fuel in the United States stinks. It is poor at best. It is still viewed as an industrial fuel for motor transport. Even Daimler mechanics have told me that the Daimler diesels run better on the EU diesel than on domestic diesel. In Europe, the minimum required cetane is 51 or 52. Here in the U.S. it is 40 or better and with the advent of ULSD, it is 43 or 44. When I add lots of cetane improver, then my Jeep runs better, quieter and more smoothly plus fuel economy increases.
2. Diesel fuel in this country is fairly dirty so I can understand the need for frequent filter changes.

I am sorry to read that you are skeptical about buying another diesel. In some respects, the injection systems have become simpler and more reliable. I drove a diesel with a mechanical pump injection system (Bosch licensed) in the early 1980's. It failed at 140K miles and did so in dramatic fashion.

Will I buy another diesel, probably.

You stated you have a Racor filter system on your Jeep. Do you have a part number or model number you can share with me?

caribou1

Hello winter2,
A few years ago I posted this picture of my fuel filter:
http://richard.fortin.free.fr/KJ_diesel/Corps_filtre.jpg

Made by Parker under ref# 230 and can be purchased here:
http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_spn_intro/r_spn_specs/r_spn_specs.html

Spin on filter reference is R20s. The "s" stands for finer filtration, 2 microns if I remember correctly instead of 5. Lettering is light brown over beige cartridge color.

I used only two R20s filters since 4 years and they are perfect. With the freezing temperatures I never had any problem of viscosity.

winter2

Thank you for the info.

I found a few sites that show how to adapt the Racor filter to the Jeep but they use a model 245 instead of the model 230. In either case, it takes a bit of work and modification to install it.

gunnar2

hi diesel folks,
i've received several helpful tips in the past so i thought i'd try this one. recently my 2006 47kmiles, has done the following;
mainly when still warming up
i am at a stop and press the accelerator midway to the floor. the car starts out very slowly, then shoots a lot of smoke out the tailpipe and then starts to accelerate.

i need to admit that i also have a residual egr valve issue. i spent about $900 having the hardware replaced only to have the check engine light come back on (about the half the trips it is on and the other half it is off. the code is p243. the dealer wants me to spend another $600 on replacing a third piece of hardware in the egr chain. which i am resisting. until this delay/smoke incident the car has been running completely normally.

question; any suggestions about what is causing this delayed acceleration and smoke generation?

thanks in advance for any suggestions
gunnar2

caribou1

I think you need to remove the EGR valve and clean it with a proper solvent.

Black smoke is produced when this valve does not close properly because of the accumulation of soot it should inject back into your engine. I disconnected mine about 5 years ago and I'm very happy with what I have.

zeller

My 05 Liberty Diesel keeps giving me problems. The most recent, I shut the engine off, then it wouldn't crank. I let it sit for a half hour, then it started no problem. It's getting so I don't trust it. It's been at the dealer since last thursday, is there anything that I should suggest to them? It also suddenly was getting poor mileage, 15/24.

crash227

Update on the fixed alternator pulley. The alternator is working great but the belt squeak is far worse than I expected. It is way too loud at idle "drive thru places". I plan to buy and install a new pulley with a centrifugal clutch this spring or summer. What is it about these diesel engines that requires a centrifugal clutch on the alternator pulley wheel? Under load and at RPM above idle it does not squeak at all. It sounds like the combustion cycle at idle takes a "stutter-step backwards" and reverses the pulley for an instant with every revolution of the engine. BIZZARE!

caribou1

Make sure your serpentine belt is well routed and wraps around half of the alternator pulley. If the belt doesn't pass between the alternator pulley and the pulley located just underneath the alternator then it will squeak. Mine squeaked after Jeep techs had misplaced it :surprise:

winter2

Yesterday and today I spoke with Racor and one of their local suppliers. There is a nearly direct replacement for the existing U.S. 10 micron Mopar cartridge.

Racor part # S3209S is a direct spin-on to the existing head unit. It filters down to 2 microns.

Racor part # RK30051 is the clear bowl that screws onto the above filter. It has a port for the existing WIF that should fit, but the Racor people and the supplier were not sure about that.

caribou1

The Mopar cartridge I had was a 2 micron, not a 10!
The clear bowl has the fuel heater built in. This is a "PTC" regulated heater that connects directly to the ignition. The heating element penetrates into the recess of the filter cartridge. When you have both makes of cartridge side by side you will see the syntax and placement of text are the same. This is more than just a coincidence.

winter2

As you stated in an earlier post, your Jeep came with a Racor system, not the Wix based system we have here.

If you go to the Wix website and type in the Wix number 33647, you can see what it looks like.

crash227

Thanks. I will check that out. I did the work myself between Christmas & New Years day. Do you know where I can buy a special tool for getting at the bolt head on the belt tensioner? I barely got the job done with a 1/2" drive ratchet and shallow well socket. Not much space between the tensioner and the radiator shroud and fan.

caribou1

I did it with the same tools, but my ratchet has a long lever and the head swivels. Put a pallet under your feet if you back hurts

winter2

A 15mm box end wrench will do the job but you need a long one. Snap-on tools or Matco tools has them but they are not cheap, about $40.00. The tech at the dealer showed me how to do it with the aforementioned wrench.

caribou1

I'm sure you can borrow such a ratchet for the cost of a beer

Mine is a GRAY tool, bought from Canadian Tire:
http://www.graytools.com/catalogue/1-2%20Drive%20Sockets%20&%20Attachments.pdf

Flex Handle Ratchet
Part No. 8799F
Description 40 tooth flex handle ratchet
Length 14¹⁄₂"

farout

Hello caribou 1, and others on this forum....this is "farout" remember I had the Green Beast? I don't miss it a bit! The Pacifica AWD 4. L 6speed auto does our hill in the ice and snow better than the CRD did! And it gets a lot better fuel mileage as well.

I read your all posts now and then, and it seems the problems are still there. Caribou 1 I too came to the conclusion that diesels are far to complecated and espensive to keep up, I have no desire to ever own one again.

How many miles on you CRD now? As far as I know you and Winter 2 are the main ones I remember.

Has winter 2 still have the small unique travel trailer?

I hope to read your reply soon.

farout

crash227

I will definitely shop for a new tool for this job. Thanks for the suggestion. I have a 14 to 16" 1/2" drive Snap-On ratchet but with the shallow well socket it barely went over the bolt last December. I thought I would need something like a shallow socket welded to a flat piece of steel to give me some room to work. Our Michigan weather is getting into the 60s recently so I may take a look at it soon.

crash227

I have a 2006 CRD Liberty with 95k miles on it and still have my original EGR and all my original Glow Plugs. I do all my own maintenance whenever possible. Based upon some good advice in this Forum I buy the best diesel fuel I can find and I have alternated between adding cetane boost and Diesel Kleen every tank. I also "Blow the Crap" out of it a couple of times per week. However, I don't fully trust the EGR so I think I will buy one of those SEGRs this spring.

I had some problems with my tire pressure sensors so I had them all removed the last time I bought new tires. Is there a way to shut off, by-pass or fool the light on the dash for low tire pressure?

caribou1

Good evening farout, it's past midnight over here...
I'm still very pleased with my 'de-rated' Jeep that has 110,000 miles.
It runs like new with all original parts except for battery, alternator, front disks and ball joints. It needs lateral body repair but shows no rust, transmission line oil seals and rear disks must be replaced as soon as the weather allows to work outside... Add another set of front disks in 20,000 miles and it should be ready for new shock absorbers...

I haven't used it much last year, I got addicted to one of your 96ci V-twins. It's now or never

winter2

Hello Farout,

Looks like all goes well with you and your Pacifica. I still have my CRD and it is running just fine with nearly 63K miles on the odometer. Fuel economy is quite good. I started a new job on Friday with a twenty-eight mile commute each way. Getting 27+MPG and with long distance, like trips to Florida or NYC yielding 30+ MPG.

Had a rough winter here in the D.C. area with lots of snow. The CRD proved itself more than capable of handling 24 or more inches of snow with great aplomb.

As to the trailer you speak of, I have no clue where you got that from. I do not own a trailer of any kind and I do not tow with my CRD.

warren9

I have an 06 and after the recall went from 27.2 down to 17.5 mpg. Did you go through the recall? If not what have you done?

rkopper

Have 06 CRD love it put 30,000 mostly highway miles on it in the year that ive owned it. now has 90,000 . The fools in the peoples republic of Mass government did not allow jeep to sell the CRD new in Mass(could only sell used ones with more than 7,000 miles on od so most dealers don't have tools or know how don't trust dealers anyway.looking for good diesel mechanic to change timing belt

winter2

I gather you are speaking of the F37 recall. I did it shortly after it was announced and before I received a recall notice. The Jeep had to go to the shop for EGR failure so I had both things done at the same time. In spite of the recall, I have had to replace the TC (this is number three) because it failed. Should this one fail, then I am going to purchase a Suncoast TC or ATS TC and a shift kit and that should be the end of that issue.

My fuel economy did not suffer and in fact over time has gotten better. At nearly 63K miles, fuel economy is better than it ever was when newer.

If your fuel economy has taken that much of a nosedive, then somebody screwed up something.

winter2

I would love to point you to a good shop, but I live just outside of Washington D.C. Unfortunately, there are few to no shops outside of the dealer that will touch the CRD and some will not even do basic maintenance items like an oil change or transmission service.

I do have a good dealer and with a good technician here in Rockville, Maryland but that might be a wee bit far for you to travel for what you need.

axelf66

Winter, BTW thanks for all your help on my EGR issue. My CRD in running fine now. I smoke it at least every other day and that keeps the carbon out. That said I just went over 100K. The maintenance manual says I need to replace the timing belt, idler pulleys,etc, the antifreeze, thermostat, fuel/water separator etc. I am running original water pump, alternator and things seem fine. My question is when should all his stuff be done. I understand preventative maintence but when I removed and replaced the serpentne belt it was not even cracked. Sooooo what has been your experience or any one elses in this regard. FYI I can't find the belt kit and buying it indvidual from the dealer is a no go price wise. Any good parts places where I can get the kit. Antifreeze and other stuff is available locally here in WV but the kit is not. Appreciate any info.

wvav8tor

I just came back from a trip to North Carolina, I left Morgantown, WV and arrived at Kill Devil Hills and checked the fuel mileage and it was 30.5. This diesel continues to amaze me and I like the handling and ride. It is a very comfortable vehicle to take on a trip and it now has over 50000 miles on it and 25000 of those for being all trouble free for me. But I am without a warranty and the expensive repairs that can and do come up have me worried. I have looked into trading and have got a really great offer from a dealer on a AWD Sorento. I hate to give up the Jeep but I am very concerned that it could get pricey to keep.

dusty

winter2

As to replacing the timing belt, do it. If it fails or any other component in that system fails, it usually happens at the worst possible time. If the timing belt fails and a valve is left open, then the follower associated with that valve will break if the piston hits the valve, to prevent valve and piston damage and that costs money to fix beside the cost of maintenance. As to when you should do the PM is your call.

As to buying certain parts for the CRD, it is an unfortunate problem that we are stuck buying certain parts from the dealer because no one has stepped up in the after market to make a replacement part. The CRD is a limited run vehicle so very few after market components were made for it. There are about 11,000 of us here in the U.S.

If I find anyone who carries a timing belt, water pump besides the dealer, I will let you know.

winter2

Before you trade your CRD for a Sorrento, take a look at what long term maintenance will cost you for that vehicle. Remember, the Sorrento is car based, not truck based like the CRD and AWD systems get problematic as they age.

gh1961

My experience with AWD is that the "A" has to be laid over to look like a "4" on the back of a car. Other than that, there is no comparison.