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Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

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Comments

  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    "Never argue with a former newspaper reporter!!!"

    As am I.

    We will still need to wait for an official announcement, however, don't you think?

    Note where it says 'plans' and 'without citing sources'

    I expect Mazda will make some announcements on the upcoming autoshow circuits. If the new NA product is only the 5, I do not see how that is going to do much to either boost Mazda's sales or help profitability.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    "We will still need to wait for an official announcement, however, don't you think?"

    No ...

    This is a discussion group, not the New York Times. I believe we can predict, opine and fantasize all we want.

    Meade
  • consumerpro123consumerpro123 Member Posts: 2
    I would argue that Mazda has no future in the US unless they totally change their approach and management. I recently posted a note about how Mazda makes second rate cars and parts, and gives third rate customer support. They should take some of the money they spend on the Zoom-Zoom ads and spend on quality). I will never buy another Mazda and I would warn everyone else out there to stay away.

    Basically, Mazda is a car for those who cannot afford better, do not know better or do not want better. It may get you from point A to point B, (if you are lucky), but for the money there are plenty of other cars that can do that but with quality and customer service.
    Don’t waste your time with a Mazda.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I agree 100%

    But you did say to never argue with you.

    Perhaps what you really meant is that right now, you have the upper hand ;)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    While I also have issues with customer service, in Mazda's defense, dealers are independent. Automakers can cajole but they cannot force. When you are a smaller player, it can be more difficult to keep dealers in line.

    As bad as my Mazda dealer experience was, I would have to say Mazda itself did a good job when I contacted them directly with questions.

    Mazda may not be Honda or Toyota when it comes to reliability, but they are not bad either. Their cars are a lot of fun for the money. I would hardly call them point A to point B.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Remember the old saying, YMMV.

    My wife and I currently own a 2000 Protege with 80,500 miles on it and a 2002 Protege5 with 36,000 miles on it. Both have been very reliable cars. In the past I owned a 1992 Protege LX which hydroplaned at 28,000 miles and was totaled (due to the horrible Bridgestone Potenzas it came shod with -- another story in itself), yet with the then-standard motorized passive-restraint seat belts and no air bags, all 230 pounds of me walked away from it. I was so astounded at how well that car saved my life, I took my insurance money and bought a second 1992 Protege LX, which I proceeded to drive for the next two years as a Pizza Hut deliverer, putting 83,000 miles on it in only 28 months. It never had one problem.

    YMMV -- I've had very good experiences with Mazda cars, and very good experiences with Mazda service. My experience has been such that there's no question what make of car my next one will be. I wish you luck with whatever make you wind up with in the future.

    Meade
  • mz3ctmz3ct Member Posts: 23
    just buy a new Civic, did you? Jealous much? A guy I work with had 2 Proteges go to 250k with no work needed...sit in a 3 with leather and then sit in a Jetta...sorry about your bad luck and whatever it was...but you can't be serious...
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I read that he's buying a Toyota.

    consumerpro, was it your 626 that had the bad O2 sensor? What year was it?

    Meade
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    If your Mazdas have "been very reliable" and you also "had very good experiences with Mazda cars"

    then you have not really had much of a chance to test Mazda Customer service.

    Until you have had a significant problem you are not really in a good position to judge how well a company does in solving significant problems.

    I on the other have had more than my share of issues.

    So far Mazda (not the dealer - but Mazda Corporate) has done nothing to solve my problems. When I ask them if they would send me an E-mail to let me know when they came up with a solution to the AC defect - they said NO they don't do that - instead they said I should go and check a GOVERNMENT WEB site that lists information about TSB's. I know of several "mom & pop" size businesses that have a better system to handle customer communications (but then they want people to come back as repeate customers - something Mazda obviously does not care about). I can't imagine a large company that does not have a system to handle this type of request - and - please don't try and tell me that because they get thousands of requests each day that they are too large to provide this type of service. This is 2004 not 1974. What it does tell me is that they have no concern at all for the very people that pay their bills.

    Mazda customer service system is just as weak as the AC system that they put in my Mazda3.
  • slingshot80slingshot80 Member Posts: 55
    I bought my Millenia S as I could find no other with as much content for the price. Have 45,000 miles on it. Total mechanical problems: Bose radio, not Mazda's fault has started to skip on some CDs. Sometimes the gas lid doesn't open on the first try. Total times in shop in two years for mechanical problems? Zero. CR rated this much better than average for reliability. I guess they were right.
  • doying5doying5 Member Posts: 83
    Here are some interesting market figures for Mazda.
    What a suprise... They are UP! And with the great press on great cars it looks like a permanent movement!

    www.forbes.com/associatedpress/feeds/ap/2004/07/30/ap1481824.html
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    I'm happy if I'm proven wrong on the possibility of the Mazda 5 making it to the US. It looks like an eminently practical vehicle with good styling and should perform quite well, being apparently based on the 3 platform.

    A vehicle approximately the size of a 3 with really useful passenger room might just sell well over here.

    The Scion XB and even the Toyota Echo have remarkably room rear seats but are percieved as plug-ugly by many (I love the XB, btw), the MZ5 should be at least as roomy and the styling is actually quite good.

    As the current minivan models get more and more bloated to the point where a 20mpg average V6 is necessary to haul them around, there may very well be a market for an attractive roomy vehicle with 25-30 mpg fuel economy.
  • consumerpro123consumerpro123 Member Posts: 2
    HI-yes-it was a 626 (1999). Any suggestions?

    When I took it back to the dealer, the dealer indicated that the 02 sensor was number one on the hit parade of known Mazda problems when it comes to the engine light going on. Unfortunately, they did not have one in stock. That is why I need to make a third and fourth trip, literally taking two days out of my life. I realize that in every life a little rain must fall, so I am not trying to sing the blues too badly, but would it hurt Mazda to give me a loaner for trip number four when it was caused by their defect.

    I cannot blame the dealer--it was not their fault that Mazda supplied a defective 02 senor(although they could have stocked some).

    Tried to get some satisfaction out of customer service and to see if Mazda would take any reasonability for a defective part that will lead to a third and fourth trip to the dealer. What I got was a bunch of corporate nonsense and a run around about how as a Goodwill gesture, I may ask for a loaner and I could escalate to the district manager. Putting aside the fact that Mazda considers it a gift to help a customer put into a very difficult situating because of Mazda's defect, the proposed solution turned out to be a sham. In talking to my local dealer, it turns out that at least in my area, Mazda NEVER pays for a loaner even for cars with serious defects still under warranty. Obviously, Mazda customer service operates on the idea that if they stonewalled people, they will just go away. They are right--I am going away--I am going to buy a Toyota this week.
    Their take the money and run philosophy is the reason they cannot compete here in the US.

    Thanks,
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "In talking to my local dealer, it turns out that at least in my area, Mazda NEVER pays for a loaner even for cars with serious defects still under warranty."

    I don't know about your 626, but on newer Mazdas, a loaner car is part of the warranty. It doesn't matter what the dealer says, you're supposed to get a loaner car if your car needs warranty work. If what you need fixed is only going to take a couple hours, you might have to ask for a loaner, but if your car is going to be in for a day or so, they should just offer you a loaner.

    Soooo, your local dealer is full of it.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    "Until you have had a significant problem you are not really in a good position to judge how well a company does in solving significant problems."

    OK, Bill, let's compare.

    Of the five new Mazdas I've purchased since 1991 (note I've owned FOUR Proteges), I was unfortunate to buy one lemon -- a brand-new, 1994 Mazda B2300 pickup -- in December 1994. For those who don't know, Mazda pickups are rebadged Ford Rangers, and I got one of Ford's lemons with its notorious 2.3-liter, 8-plug 4-banger. I didn't know any better at the time, but this engine is plagued by lean driveability problems (it pinged ALL THE TIME). (It's the same engine in the late 80s - early 90s Ford Tempo -- and you can find LOTS of complaints on those engines.)

    I only found out later, once plagued with ownership of this nightmare, that the complaints on this engine had been going on for years on fordranger.com, and I learned a lot about why I should NOT have purchased this vehicle.

    Anyway, my troubles began at about 8,000 miles. By this point the thing had never gotten even close to its EPA gas-mileage ratings (19 on the highway; it was rated at 26), and the engine now started sounding like a Coke can full of marbles all the time. I had it back at the dealership many times under warranty while they checked and adjusted things. I was confident they were making progress (call me a too-stupid fresh-out-of-college guy), and I trusted them as they made one change after another in an effort to get to the root of the problem. Alas, they didn't -- but they never stopped trying, and they never charged me anything even though the truck never stopped running as a result of this. (Another dealer might have given it a try and then said it's a nuisance, but not a problem that affects the truck's driveability.) By the time someone told me I might have a lemon-law case, it was too late for my state's lemon-law requirements -- the truck had too many miles on it. I even talked to a lemon-law attorney up in D.C., and he said it might be doable under the Magnuson-Moss Breach of Warranty Act, but the attorney costs (damn lawyers!) would be exhorbitant, and payable by yours truly if the case was lost. So I did all I could do -- I kept complaining to my dealership.

    My dealership threw up its hands after trying everything they could do by making engine adjustments and checking sensors -- probably half-a-dozen visits, providing me free loaner cars and never charging me a penny for any of the work -- so I contacted Mazda NA. Now, instead of stonewalling me like GM did with my wife's 1995 Cavalier (another story), Mazda NA arranged a meeting between me, my truck and a Mazda NA rep at my dealership. He rode in the truck with me (on two occasions a week apart), heard the noise and ordered that the entire engine be torn apart, if need be, to find a fix. They kept my truck for almost three weeks, sending the block out for remanufacturing, replacing the head and the intake and exhaust manifolds, the catalytic converter, and a wealth of sensors and other parts. I saw the bill -- over $4,000. I didn't pay a cent. This was at 54,000 miles, by the way -- 4,000 miles past when my warranty expired.

    Mazda obviously did not want to admit that they had gone with a bad Ford engine in this truck. But I think they admitted it indirectly by redesigning the engine in only its second year -- and there's where I learned NOT to buy any vehicle in its first year of production!!!

    But I have nothing but praise for Mazda's customer service and doing everything short of eating the truck -- which I think they might have done if I pursued it further.

    Two things they did do:

    First, they put IN WRITING that if my truck ever experienced ANY engine trouble that could be traced to this problem, they'd repair it for free. (And I did keep the truck until it had more than 110,000 miles on it.) Second, they did offer me several pretty fabulous buy-back deals, but I was pretty upside-down when I had bought the truck, and by this time I almost had it paid off -- and with an extended warranty like the one they'd given me, I figured, why not drive it into the ground? After all, who else basically gets to start over with a brand-new engine at 60,000 miles? The only stuff under my hood that was original was the alternator, the air-cleaner box and the transmission.

    When it finally did come time to trade the truck, they gave me nearly $1,000 more than it was worth toward my 2000 Protege, and they gave me the "college grad" discount (which is only good for first-time car buyers) even though they knew full well that the new Protege was my fourth new car from them.

    My Protege (er, a Mazda built in Japan as opposed to Ohio) has 80,800 miles on it this morning, and it has never been in the shop for anything other than maintenance. After my experience with the truck, Mazda and this dealership (Whitten Brothers Mazda in Richmond, Virginia) have my business.

    There -- is that a "significant" enough problem? Now let's hear your story.

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    "the dealer indicated that the 02 sensor was number one on the hit parade of known Mazda problems when it comes to the engine light going on."

    Actually it's the owner's failure to tighten the gas cap securely that's the No. 1 CEL cause with Mazdas, but I'll call this a close second.

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    "I don't know about your 626, but on newer Mazdas, a loaner car is part of the warranty."

    Loaner cars are also part of every major (i.e. 30K, 60K, 90K, etc.) service.

    This isn't just a dealership offering -- I've had this argument on another discussion and someone checked with Mazda NA.

    Meade
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Since your post indicated you had such great experience with Mazda CARS & service it sounded like you had never had a problem - I did not know you had major problems with a TRUCK and IMO also MAJOR PROBLEMS with service.

    Maybe our standards are different (obviously).

    You started having problems at 8,000 miles - still had major problems at 54,000 miles - (I assume this problem lasted for several years) sounds like you made many many trips in for service with the same problem (was it really 6 or more?). Even felt you needed to talked with an attorney about lemon law - was that because the service was so great? And you still think that this is good service! I would call this HORRIBLE SERVICE!! If you went to McDonalds and had to bring your $.99 cheese burger back 6 times because it was defective would you be telling everyone - Go to McDonalds they keep working at it until the finally get it right?

    I think excellent service is when you have a problem & they VOLUNTARILY fix it the FIRST time. I will accept 2 trips for the same problem - I understand that sometimes things are more complicated - I don't expect perfection - I would still consider this acceptable maybe even good. The difference between good and acceptable can be something as small as the service person saying they are sorry for the extra trip.

    I just don't understand how you could walk away from that situation thinking they had done a good job - even if at some point you had been treated even worse by another company that is still not an excuse.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I'm not going to get involved in another pissing contest here. They never get anywhere and just blow out of proportion until posts are deleted and hosts get involved.

    People have different experiences and different opinions. Welcome to the microcosm of the world known as Edmunds.

    My definition of service is standing behind your product. Your definition of service is a quick fix, regardless of whether or not there is one. I think the fact that my dealership never stopped trying to fix a problem that has, to my knowledge, never been diagnosed with this particular engine (even by Ford, who swept it under the rug and tried to ignore it), instead of throwing their hands up and saying "tough luck, pal," was a good move.

    You don't. Oh well. We have different opinions! Life sucks, and we move on!

    Meade
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    So if you had the troublesome 2.3-liter four in your '94 B2300, this means that the B2500 offered from '98-01 has basically the same engine? (I believe they're OHC designs)
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    I notice he never made it clear whether he was doing the work (Ordered a part?) or the dealer did. Also didn't specify whether the work was warranty work or not.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Not trying to "get you wet" - I just have a hard time understanding why many people just accept poor service. In your case you have somehow turned - what I would consider a nightmare into a positive -

    My theory is some people look at how much effort is put in to solve a problem - others look at the result - did the problem get solved. I guess you can tell which type I am.

    I agree with you that a company should stand behind their product - something Mazda has failed to do with MY CAR.

    As far as a quick fix. I have had a defective AC system since February - more than 6 months - not sure what your standard is - but I think we are way past the quick anything as far as Mazda goes. Maybe in 2008 they will agree to fix my AC -
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    sure they do.

    I have an AC "jerking" defect in some conditions on my 99 Protege. Mazda, unable to fix it, provided me with a 7yr/100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty with 0 deductible. And that was outside the lemon law period.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    A few posts back you asked me what I would like to see mazda offer.....There are three things I would really like to see. The first would be a car platform based AWD wagon like the XC90/pacifica etc. $27-35K range. The second would be a small direct injection turbo diesel engine for the Tribute. I also would like to see something above the MZ6 in the $30K range with a performace oriented engine and something unique, maybe a turbo rotary.

    Concerning the van that has sparked such interest on here...I spoke with our Mazda Factory rep today and he never heard of this van....that leads me to believe it isnt going to show up here anytime soon. Don't forget we order Japanese built Mazda's 4-5 months out....but you never know, anything is possible!!
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Now I am really confused - your car has a defect that Mazda admits to but will not fix - Mazda gives you an extended warranty and you think that is a good deal. Since your car is a 1999 I assume this problem has been around for a few years! So much for the hope a quick fix from Mazda!

    If I had a flat tire - I would want my tire fixed - If my AC does not cool my car - I want that fixed - what good is an extended warranty -Mazda is not even "stepping up to the plate" on their original new car warranty.

    Those Mazda folks are pretty cleaver - they got you to think they gave you a good deal by providing you with a promise to fix your car in the future - but they do not need to fix your defective car now. To me that does not sound like a good deal. I would much rather just have them fix my defective car now. How much faith do you have that if your car develops another defect during your extended warranty period that they will fix this new problem - maybe they would just give you an additional Super Gold Premium Deluxe triple extended warranty for 11 years and 150,000 miles -

    It looks like you got the smoke and mirror treatment.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Based on the problems you have had....have you thought about selling the car and buying something else? I certainly would not put myself through the grief you seem to be having. The MZ3 is still hot, you should be able to get out with minimal loss...or what about lemon law?
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    (Re: Is the current 2.5-liter in the B2500 basically the same engine that was in the B2300)

    Yep, but according to the coupla guys in my service department (whom I've gotten to know real well over the last 13 years), whatever they did to it when they increased its displacement also took care of the pinging problem. There've been some improvements to the throttle body and head area from what I hear.

    Meade
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Extended warranties are almost all provided by third party services that make arrangements directly with the dealer.

    The manufacturer, in this case Mazda, has nothing to do with the third party extended warranties.

    The dealers may get a commission when a consumer buys an extended warranty. But the manufacturer gets nothing. In fact, many extended warranties have language that inarguably allows the guarantor to chose replacement parts not made by the manufacturer or its vendors.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I think what chikoo and I are saying is, sometimes there are problems that aren't as cut-and-dried as the ones you cited as examples. A flat tire usually can be fixed by replacing it, lol. A/C problems are usually confined to the A/C system. In his case, as in mine a few years back, the "usual" remedies were attempted to no avail. The dealer TRIED to fix the problem, but was left with a mystery. Ours chose to toss the "COULD NOT DUPLICATE" stamp out the window and attempted to help us far beyond the industry norm.

    There aren't always cut-and-dried solutions to everything, and it's sad to see an entire generation entering life expecting instant gratification and 30-minute "sitcom solutions" to every problem in life.

    In both of our cases, the "problem" was not so severe that it affected the driveability of the car -- that's why he's still driving his 1999 Protege and I traded my truck after 114,000 miles and it had never broken down. There's a fine line between a problem that warrants a full replacement of the vehicle and what constitutes an "irritation."

    $15,000 cars are not the same as $10 toasters from Wal-Mart or even $200 DVD players from Best Buy. With those consumer products, if you take it home and it has a problem, in most cases they'll take them back and swap them for new ones. With more expensive products, like cars and houses, once you buy them, they're yours -- at least there's a Lemon Law to help us out with cars (wish there was with houses -- again, ANOTHER STORY). In both of our cases, we let the problem persist (or didn't think it was that bad) until after our states' Lemon Law periods had expired for us. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 -- I would've done it differently if I knew then what I learned during that process -- and if anything like that ever happens again, you'd better believe I won't be going through it.

    Bottom line is, Mazda didn't HAVE to do ANYTHING. Our Chevy dealer, and GM, surely exercised that option when we were needing the fourth $500 head gasket on our 1995 Cavalier at 48,000 miles. Mazda didn't have to "eat" our vehicles, nor did the "problems" we were experiencing affect our ability to use them for what they were intended.

    I do think Mazda went far beyond what many manufacturers would do in my case, spending more than $4,000 on the problem and offering me a no-holds-barred warranty on anything that should arise.

    Let's look at it another way, playing devil's advocate against myself. I wound up purchasing a truck for $12,000 with a 3-year, 50,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. Sure, I had the truck at the dealership at least a dozen times over the course of five years for this "problem." But in return I never paid for one thing other than oil changes and recommended maintenance, I got basically a new engine after my warranty had expired, and I drove it for 114,000 miles and then got $1,500 more than I should have in trade.

    I guess the bottom line is, I was willing to accept that at the time. It's easy to look back on it now, on the sum of everything that was done, and say, "Wow, they should've eaten the vehicle." While it was happening, though -- when they had it in, swapped out a bunch of stuff, gave it back to me, I drove it for a thousand miles or so and they said "OK, let's try this" -- it appeared we were eliminating the variables and moving toward a solution. It never cost me a dime, and frankly the dealership was on my way home from work. They ALWAYS put me in a rental (NOT a loaner back then -- they footed the bill from Enterprise EVERY TIME) -- and I was on my way.

    Final result? Well, I was out of the truck almost five years ago, and now I'm a "preferred customer" at the dealership. Everyone there knows my name, and they constantly bend over backward for me. Case in point: The two "problems" I've had with my 2000 Protege are problems I caused myself: first, I stuck a labeled CD in my stereo, ignoring the warning against doing so in my car's manual, and jammed my CD player. Second, I attempted to squeeze too large a box under my parcel shelf in the trunk and damaged the nylon clip that holds the trunk springs under the parcel shelf. In both cases, they "warrantied" the repairs and I didn't pay a cent. On top of that, the second problem I caused required removal of the entire parcel shelf to get to it -- a several-hour job -- and they needed the car for a day. (This item is not a normal replacement item!) In spite of the fact that they were already NOT charging me for the part OR the labor, they also put me in a RENTAL car for the day. Price of the nylon clip, by the way? Less than $10.

    I could go on, as in the time I needed to replace my plug wires and they didn't have any in the parts department. Instead of making me wait, my service writer walked up to the lot and grabbed a set off a brand-new Protege and had them installed in the service drop-off bay as I stood there and watched. We never even wrote up a ticket, and I was not charged for the $70 wire set.

    It's really hard to quantify a 13-year experience with a dealer and a manufacturer that covers five new vehicles in just a few posts on a discussion group. I know what kind of service I've received, and I'm pleased with it. That's what counts. There are things they've done to keep my business -- things they never had to do and some that were completely unexpected. Things that assure me that if I do have a real problem again, the dealership will go out of its way for me. Change to Toyota or Honda now? Hell no! As logic has stated, they make so many daggone cars and trucks, I'd be one in a million if I had a problem. They'd shake me off. Let me take 'em to court, who cares. I've found a dealer and a manufacturer that are willing to go the extra mile when (and sometimes when not) necessary. And they make a damned fun and reliable car to boot.

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Well, I don't know about chikoo's case, but the "extended warranty" I received on the truck problem was a signed contract with my dealership's service department. It was nothing like the "Easy Care" Extended Warranty I have on my 2000 Protege; this was internal. I'm not sure what Chikoo got.

    Meade
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I think you are agreeing with me, but to be painfully clear:

    Dealers are independent businesses. They are not Mazda. If you have a service warranty from your dealer, you have an agreement with Indepenent businessABC, authorized to do business as your Mazda dealer.

    The Easy Care extended warranty probably came from one of the third party services such as CIT Group and not from Mazda. You will have to look at the fine print on the agreement to determine who is obligated under the warranty.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Yes, we are in agreement. I know all about my EasyCare warranty. In fact I have two EasyCare warranties; one on each current car.

    All I was saying was that the "warranty" my dealership placed on my truck after all the problems was not an "official" vehicle warranty -- it took the form of a (signed, handwritten) agreement between me and my service manager and remained on file in the service department.

    Meade
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    http://www.mazda.com/publicity/product/2004e/200408/siryou200408e- .html

    usually in business a 20+% growth from last year is a VERY good result. Of course, YMMV ;-)
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    the TOTAL production of Mazda vehicles (domestic + oversea production) for year 2004 has already reached over 640,000 vehicles. Not a bad number for a little 'niche' company ;-)
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Since the temps will be cooling off a little bit over the next few months I think I will hang on and see if Mazda will "step up to the plate" and fix this obvious defect. Heck the AC actually works good as long as the outside temp is around 75 degrees or less. The sad thing is I really like almost everything about the Mazda3 & can over look all the other problems - the CEL, the grinding brakes - the 18 MPG that I have been getting - if they would just fix my AC. Hard to enjoy a drive when you sweating.

    I would guess If I traded now I would take a $5-6K hit. I normally keep vehicles about 4 years and plan to replace my SUV as soon as the 2006 model year comes out. I am also a stubborn old SOB and don't like to admit that I made a big mistake.

     It is hard to accept that we are all talking about the same company - on one hand they give out extended warranties like some companies hand out free hot dogs and replace engines for small problems - that according to the owners are only a minor issue - yet other times they look you in the eye (sarcastic figure of speech) and tell you that it is normal design function of the Mazda3 to double as a sauna when the temp is above 85 degrees.

    mdaffron
    You say - "it's sad to see an entire generation entering life expecting instant gratification and 30-minute "sitcom solutions" to every problem in life" WOW! where did that come from? I expect a car with an AC system that cools my car - have been waiting for 6 months for a solution. Not sure if that falls within your 30 minute solution - but IMO it seems like a long time.

    It also seems like some are still confusing the dealership with the car company. My dealer has done an OK job - as most of you know they can not fix anything unless Mazda gives them the OK to do so. My beef is with Mazda.
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    "It's really hard to quantify a 13-year experience with a dealer and a manufacturer that covers five new vehicles in just a few posts on a discussion group. I know what kind of service I've received, and I'm pleased with it. That's what counts. There are things they've done to keep my business -- things they never had to do and some that were completely unexpected. Things that assure me that if I do have a real problem again, the dealership will go out of its way for me. Change to Toyota or Honda now? Hell no! As logic has stated, they make so many daggone cars and trucks, I'd be one in a million if I had a problem. They'd shake me off. Let me take 'em to court, who cares. I've found a dealer and a manufacturer that are willing to go the extra mile when (and sometimes when not) necessary. And they make a damned fun and reliable car to boot.

    Meade"

    You got a good dealer in the first place, but more importantly you knew how to work with them which helped immeasurably in getting the kind of service you got.

    Your patience and reasonable attitude goes a lot further and gets you a lot more than childish whining and constant demands for instant cures to complicated problems.

    I wish all owners realized there's no such thing as a magic wand.

    Back in the 70s, before JD Power and such, we had a lady who came in twice weekly complaining bitterly that her AC wasn't working well enough.

    She of course had a dark colored car with a black interior, parked it in the sun all day in our 100 degree summers, and was extremely upset that the AC did not make icicles on the end of her nose within 30 seconds of her starting the car. Having repeatedly determined that there was indeed no malfunction in her AC, the general manager of the dealership invited her into his office where she proceeded to "cut him a new one" over her "defective" air conditioner. Finally she ran down and the GM smiled sweetly and said to her:

    "Mrs. xxxx, I really don't understand why you're so unhappy with your air conditioner, you don't sweat much for such a fat woman!"

    And, Bill, please understand that this is not meant to say you don't have a problem, I'm convinced you do!

    On another occasion a 6' 200 lb. customer stalked into the showroom and started yelling his head off about some little clip not having been in stock for his car (which he broke in the first place), a particularly rare clip only used on the rear quarter trim panel on an 83 Cressida wagon. The owner happened to be there and politely asked the man to calm down a bit so they could discuss some way to make this right for him. The customer flew into a rage and started throwing stuff, at which point the owner (a man roughly 5' 6" tall and in his late 60s at the time) proceeded to deck him, breaking one of the customer's front teeth.

    Of course, the owner paid for the necessary dental repair, saying it was worth every penny!

    BTW,
    My mpg on my first long trip, 85% hwy and 15% city but with AC on all the time was 29.5, around town exclusively in heavy traffic with unsychronized traffic lights and only 3 mile average trip length I'm getting 18-19 with AC on all the time. My engine still has under 1k miles on it, I expect this to improve a bit with break-in, but we do get that oxygenated gas here which cuts mpg by about 10%.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    You make a few good points - no one wants to have a customer rip into you for no reason (or for any reason).

    But - ever issue has two sides.

    To me the defective AC in my Mazda3 is just as plain as a flat tire or a car that will not start. It is 100% obvious that it does not cool the car. This is not just my opinion, but also the observation of many people that have been in my car on a hot day.

    So - I go to my dealer and tell them that my AC is not cooling the car - that it blows cool air - then warm air. I am not mad about it - or even really concerned - why would I be? But when I am told that the AC is performing up to Mazda specs I do become concerned. But I don't rip the service guy a new one - he is not even the one that did the test. The service guy agrees to take my car for a drive - he calls me back about a hour later and tells me - he did not think the AC did a very good job of cooling the car - and if I can leave the car another day he will have the tech check it again. I think you know the rest of my story so I will not go through it again.

    The point is my AC defect is obvious - sometimes - I would think MOST of the time - when a customer takes the time out of their schedule to take a car in to the dealership for service it is because they HAVE A REAL PROBLEM.

    So put yourself in my shoes. You have a flat tire and the rep from GoodYear tells you that the tire is within their spec and is not a problem. Nothing they can do about it because their is nothing wrong. But then they tell you that they have had several other customers with a similar "concern" - and that they have their engineers looking into it. Do you just say OK I will just drive it on the rim?

    It has been over 6 months now - am I being to demanding?
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Well, when dealing with a flat tire, how to fix it is pretty obvious. Apparently not so with the A/C issues. Kinda like if said flat tire kept going flat, even with no hole or other damage in it, and after replacing both the tire and rim.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    First of all the flat tire example is to show how obvious it is that I have a defective AC system. But really - if a problem is hard to fix do you think it is OK to just take the position that it is not even a problem? I understand how business decisions get made -I also understand the legal issues involved. Mazda has the lawyers and accountants calling the shots and that is not good.

    Apparently Mazda has fixed the defect - since no one with a build date of 5/04 or later has the problem. At least not yet.

    Also - Mazda has not "replaced my tire & rim" they have done nothing - if I had the problem for 6 days - or 6 weeks I could see the point that things take time - but 6 months!
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Look at it this way.
    as cited, My A/C problem does not affect the driveability of my car.
    The extended warranty is Mazda's own, can be used at any dealership. Actually used it to fix window regulators and a new tranmission AFTER the standard warranty expired. I am happy. The warranty program also provides for rental/loaners and 24hr roadside assistance.
    What is to lose?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "The first would be a car platform based AWD wagon like the XC90/pacifica etc. $27-35K range."

    I am not so sure about the other two you listed - a $30K sport Mazda6 would have to compete directly with the Legacy turbo, which would be $2K cheaper and have AWD. It would be fun though!

    But the XC90/Pacifica fighter you describe here is absolutely the next step for Mazda. I spend my time speculating whether or not Mazda will get a rebadged Freestyle, which would fill this bill quite nicely. I believe they will, and they DO have certain plans for a vehicle like this in the next few years, right?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I was thinking that the upcoming Lincoln Zypher would fit very nicely in the line up. Lots of go and AWD in the $30K range. Put a Mazda spin on the car and it would be perfect.

    There are plans for a SUV type vehicle that is larger than the current Tribute but smaller than the Explorer/Mountaneer. I suspect a version of the Freestyle would fit....as long as Mazda gets some say in how its marketed. A mazda grill and bandging won't get it done for me.

    I would love to have a version of the Tribute than gets 30+MPG. I'm not sold on hybrids yet. That is why I like the idea of a small turbo diesel. Jeep gave the green light for their small diesel in the Liberty. VW's with diesels are doing quite well at my friends VW store.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that seem certain to appear in the next few years certainly mark an upward trend in diesel availability for the non-commercial set. Mercedes will have a diesel E again, VW will continue with diesels for the next Golf/Jetta/Passat, and now Jeep with the Liberty. I think it would work, but I bet Mazda wouldn't sell enough of them to recoup investment in the engine development - instead of that, where could it pick up an appropriate engine? I agree it would have to have a turbo diesel to keep the sport mission intact. Does Ford have something they could use? The only thing I can think of is the 3/4 and 1-ton truck diesels (non-turbo and totally inappropriate anyway) and the sweet little diesel (too small) for the Euro Focus. Does the Euro Mondeo have something appropriate? Does Mazda have a powerful yet small diesel somewhere I don't know about? Alas, my knowledge of things Mazda is better in the realm of rotaries, and sketchy altogether. :-)

    I am not totally convinced on the marketability of a Mazda Zephyr with sport tweaking - Subaru will beat it to market and probably up the power by the time the Mazda could get near the market. Isn't the Zephyr going to be an '07? Even if it is going to be an '06, Mazda's version would probably be an '07. By then Subaru is almost halfway to the next Legacy, and may see fit to add power mid-cycle if it gets new competition. That will be when the new Impreza is due, and imagine if they up the power of the STi, then drop its 300 hp engine in the Legacy as an option for '08 MY.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I think I read somewhere that Mazda has a small direct injection diesel. I could google it, but I'm too lazy now.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    We have a subaru dealer within eyesight of our CT mazda store. With the exception of the MZ6 wagon and Tribute there is little cross shopping in our region. It seems Subaru buyers are shopping other products than Mazda....so I'm not convinced that Subaru plays a role in Mazda's planning. If Mazda felt that Subaru was a direct competitor they would be all over AWD... Honda, Toyota, Nissan, hyundai on the other hand play a big role in Mazda's product planning. Subaru is still a niche car company that essentially only sells well in certain parts of the country.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    thinking more about this, the competition would be fierce for a $30K sport Mazda6. You also have the Maxima at $29K, FWD luxury sport sedan with 265 hp. Also the Acura TL at $32K, 270 hp and all the luxury and sport trimmings of the bread-and-butter Acura sedan. Honda's own Accord EX V-6 four-door runs around $26-28K and is fairly sporty. Or the TSX is sporty (with less power than a sport Mazda6 presumably would have) for $26K or so...

    I am surprised you don't get a lot of people cross-shopping the Mazda3 with the Impreza. I guess the thing is, except for the WRX (which is out of the 3's range) the Impreza line is not well known.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    That may be true, but Subaru's "Driven By what's Inside" advertising campaign, and them starting to focus more on performance, might be seen as trying to snipe on Mazda's territory. It's something for Mazda to at least watch, at any rate.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    yeah, but even in Subaru's own advertising, you very rarely see anything for the rest of the Impreza line. They always focus on their popular vehicles - the Outbacks and the WRXs, with lesser advertising for the Forester.

    If people knew there was a 165 hp Impreza RS with AWD for around the price of a Mazda3s hatch, I wonder if they would cross-shop. The Subaru is a little heavier and the interior is not up to the standard of the 3, not to mention not having available NAV and many of the other niceties of the 3. But the AWD makes for that wonderful rally-control type of drive, as opposed to the FWD (ick!) of the 3.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    I was watching Mazda sales grow the last 10 months. I don't get why their sales are declining the last 2 months. This is a stat for the life of me I can't figure out: Mazda sold 9,000+ units of the compact sedan the 3 in June. In the last 2 months they have sold 6,706 and 6,308 units of the same car. What led to a minus 3,000 unit drop from June numbers? Cars like the 300C, and Acura TL are still in demand while the 3 isn't in demand anymore? That's strange to me. That is something I just don't get. The 6 is doing up to what I thought it would do well sales wise. It doesn't have the interior room that the Accord, Camry, and Altima have. Its in a clear disadvantage in that area compared to the competition. The 6 is still one of the best looking cars out there though bar none.

    Only Nissan has been hotter than Mazda in the last year or so and Nissan's sales were flat last month while the rest of the industry was down. I kinda wish Mazda could compete the Nissan's of the world in terms of sales. I wonder if you compare Nissan and Mazda sales back in 1993 how close they would be to each other.

    Here;s what I like to see from Mazda in the future:

    A new MPV.

    A Mazdaspeed 3.

    Bring back the MX-6 name.

    Bring Back the Millenia in some kind of capacity.

    I know the industry had a dreadful month last month but I expected Mazda to kinda keep their sales at an even keel from last years numbers. Mazda was on pace to sell 280,000 cars before July hit and I think they would have been happy with that number. Now with the ecomony will Mazda even equal last years sales totals? Mazda struggled in the mid 90's whn the ecomony was weak. I don't think their upper management wants to see the same thing happen again close to a decade later. When the economy got better in the late 90's they started to get some sales back. Finally, I don't think Mazda is going to be like Nissan and gain market share like crazy(not from what I see from the last 5 years of Mazda sales anyway.) They way I figure it Mazda will have to gain 10,000 units each year for the next 5 years to start to gain up a great following again in the US. I mean the last generation Protege was a great seller as is the 3. The RX-8 and Miata have their following(the Miata is like a decade old design although the design is still a great exterior design.) The MPV and Tribute needed to be marketed better to sell to small families the way I figure it. The Miata will be redesigned shortly so they should pick up some sales there. The marketing has gotten alot better I think. The young people love the new Mazda's. Just getting that Toyota, Honda, and Nissan buyer is really a challenge in itself. Nobody is stealing sales away from Nissan anytime soon the way I see it(unless when Ghosn leaves Nissan they self-destruct as a company late 90's Nissan style-type thing), meanwhile Honda's exterior designs have taken a nose dive in the last few years. At times Nissan looks like a world beater and just put a whipping on every car company and other times they look very erractic and clueless like in the late 90's.

    Sorry to talk so much.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    I think the most reasonable explanation for the drop in Mazda3 sales is a lack of inventory. I know that up here in the Great White North there are dealers who are completely sold out of all Mazda3's.

    Can't sell what you don't have.
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