Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

1…910121415…56

Comments

  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    I'd love to see the Zafira here....as minivans have maxed out, it'd be nice to have something smaller for those of us who need occasional multi-passenger use but don't want to drive a barge every day.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    would be a good match for Saturn. That would give them something unique in the marketplace, even if it didn't have the polymer panels.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru sells a clone called the Traviq in Japan, so GM could do it here.

    But...Subaru loyalists hated the idea and their new 7 seater will be exclusive to Subaru.

    -juice
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    No the G6 won't be boring!!!! It maybe boring next to a 6, but not to other midsizers!

    Back to the topic:

    I agree with jchan2, the DCX vans will look a lot more appealing. Recently, they announced that because of Honda's upcoming "SAFETY FOR ALL" program, they may have to rethink their strategy. That means that they may have standard side-curtain airbags for all their vehicles in 2006 too!

    The DCX vans will look even more appealing with that better "stow n go" system and the Grand Caravan looks very sporty to me, especially with the chrome wheels, spoiler, and in red. Same incentives and rebates too!! Hopefully, the Montana SV6 (gayest name for a "sportvan") will at least look as sporty as the Dodge.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Luckily for us in Canada, there will be a short wheelbase version of the new Pontiac Montana and Chevy Uplander. I can't imagine driving a full size van and if GM wasn't going to make them, Dodge would be along in the short wheelbase market with it's Caravan.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    People whine about some cars being "vanilla". Forgetting that vanilla sells!
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    ...is another example of GM badge-engineering. If Subaru produces one off the next-generation Zafira, lets hope they give it their own engine/awdrivetrain and more distinctive styling.
    I hear they're still thinking about an Impreza-based 6 seater, so who knows whether that'll be off the new Zafira platform or their own platform.
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Yeah, Hertz (and all the other rental co's) buy a lot of vanilla....none for me, thanks.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    If you gotta give 5 to 8K in incentives to sell vanilla, you soon ain't gonna be selling anything. Ford and GM were making 15K profit on every pickup and big SUV, plus they sold a ton. They bought Volvo, Saab, Landrover, Jaguar, Daiwoo, etc. all on Explorers and Yukons. Those days are over. Honda made 3 destinct car lines out of one model: Odessey, Pilot, MDX. All ford did was rename the Windstar. GM at least warmed up the meal with a new front end. It's gonna take more then that to find the next cash cow.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    might just be the Ford Freestyle, a Pacifica like car without the price of the Pacifica.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    So you want the Freestyle to be like the Pacifica. Just another mini-van without a sliding door. Ford's gonna have to do better then that. Though the concept drawings look a bit better then the Pacifica.

    Logic1: The G6 concept was fantastic. But those last posted spy shots worried me. The wrapped up car looked more like the Grand Prix which I was not happy with the last restyling.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    These showed only the front right quarter of the car. They appeared to be from GM and looked different than the spy shots. Official auto show launch will be soon, in any event.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Zafira actually gets a unique engine, more power at a lower price than the imported-to-Japan Opel. Still, it does very little volume there.

    Plus no AWD so forget it for Subaru of America.

    Saturn maybe? Would have made more sense to me if they got a unique product.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    There are pictures of the upcoming Ford Freestyle over on the Freestyle board, check there. I think it looks great.

    The Zafira I think, would be great for Saturn because they need something to compete with the imports, and with this car they can. Problem is, there's no imports to compete with, so Saturn has the whole mini-minivan market to itself for a few years until Saturn can force Honda to bring the Latitude, Toyota the Avensis Verso/Wish and Mitsubishi the Grandis.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I got a feeling those models will come, Mini-vans are no longer mini, there is room below them for small people movers.

    -juice
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "Yeah, Hertz (and all the other rental co's) buy a lot of vanilla....none for me, thanks"

    And well over 50% of Toyotas and Hondas are plain colored, 4 cylinder, automatic, 4 door, commuter cars. I.E. "vanilla"! Not the manual trans Si's, MR2's and S2000's.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    If those cars are as bad, why is their resale far higher than any domestic???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fewer fleet sales, smaller incentives, and better long-term reliability.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    concentrated on making dependable transportation for the masses that was reliable, affordable and dependable. That's why people buy an Accord or Camry, and there are less people willing to sell their Accords or Camrys keeping resale high, as there are less 1 year old Camrys for sale than there are 1 year old Ford Taurus or Dodge Intrepid sedans for sale.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    A Zafira would make more sense for Saturn than the VUE does. Saturn stands (stood?) for undertated, environmentally-friendly, down-home, humanistic buyers. A small minivan fits that to a T, whereas the VUE and the Red Line models are in conflict with that positioning. The Relay isn't sufficiently different enough to make people WANT it over the other badge-engineered versions.

    A Zafira would be unique and innovative and would fit with Saturn's image. It would also be an easier step up from an ION than the larger Relay. The ECOTEC would give it enough juice to make it worth driving too.
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    I know we're veering a little off track here but..
    While the styling of the Accord/Camry may not get your blood circulating, there's a certain satisfaction in buying/driving a well-engineered, reliable car that is a good value. They are comfortable, drive well and work with a well-oiled precision that doesn't scream "rental car".
    Zafira......I've seen sketches of the 2005 model and it looks a bit "edgier" than the current design. It's a lot closer to Saturn's CV1? concept can than the Relay and I agree, it would be a really good fit for Saturn.
    http://www.forocoches.com/galeria/data/504/540Zafira2.jpg
    some info
    http://d1auto.3x.ro/news/1879.htm
    and another sketch
    http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/30940/p/601800_31225076287496745- 70_vl.jpg
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    with the base price of the RELAY waaaay higher than the price of the more popular ION, who will upgrade? I agree, the Zafira is a better fit- the Ecotec would be a sufficient engine, and the price would be low enough for families driving an ION to be able to swallow the extra $1000 and upgrade to the Zafira.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    since GM is going to make Saturn re-badge Opels by 2008!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    going to bring the car? It fits into the "rebadged Opels" part of Saturn.
  • setzersetzer Member Posts: 127
    are Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay going to replace the Chevrolet Venture, Pontiac Montana, and Oldsmobile Silhouette (2004 is it's last year)? I heard of the Chevrolet Uplander which is supposed to replace the Venture, will that be like the Terraza/Relay? And will Pontiac pull out of the minivan segement?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    will stay with the Montana SV6. The Buick Terraza takes the place of the Oldsmobile Silhouette, the Chevrolet Uplander replaces the Chevrolet Venture and the Saturn Relay is an addition to the platform, designed to bring back the customers who bought the original Saturn in the 1990's but turned away from Saturn when they didn't have anything to upgrade to.
  • 5speedmanual5speedmanual Member Posts: 4
    I've checked the Buick and Saturn website and did not find any mention of power adjustable pedals. Also, Iwas wondering if side airbags are available on all three levels. Does anyone know about these or is it too soon?
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    Never said the cars were "bad". What's funny is how people assume things without checking facts.

    People assume that every Honda sold is a high tech car like the S2000, when they make money on the plain vanilla cars that know it all's whine about.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Most Japanese cars are more high tech than most domestics. They have navigations systems, VVT, DOHC, 4valves/cylinder, VIS, etc. But then there's Cadillac and Lincoln, and now Chrysler, who have all of that.
  • lennxlennx Member Posts: 73
    ateixeira

    Mini vans we never mini in the sense I think you mean. The originals were mini compared to full size, rear whell drive vans.

    The small people movers have been tried a few times but Americans have not liked them enough for them to be profitable. Think Dodge Colt Vista (I think thats the name of one of them)

    When we bought our current Venture, the 8 passenger seating was one of the big selling points for us. Most families have a few kids, the kids have friends. Then there is the stuff to go with the kids. Throw in a dog or two and the current crop of vans seems just right.

    What I find strange is that I never think of my Venture as too narrow. Yet I read several times that they are "fixing" this problem with the Uplander.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Most Japanese cars are high tech these days- VSC, VVTi, VTEC, DOHC, etc. But many Chryslers and domestic cars begin to have some of the features, beginning with DOHC, TRAC, VSC.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    I saw one of the original '84 Chrysler Minivans in a parking lot the other day next to a new Toyota Sienna and Mazda MPV, and while the sizes aren't dramatically different, the newer vans are certainly more "maxi" van than mini.

    I think the new Euro mini-vans would work well here in the U.S. (for example, Zafira as Saturn), but since Americans still equate size with price, it'll need a mini-price with its mini-size.

    Bret
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The 3er is mighty expensive for a car of its size, and it sells very well. Selling a smaller car for a good profit can be done.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    how about $14,000 for a base price on a Saturn Zafira 1? I wish.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    To Theo2709:
    That's the luxury sport sedan market, which is a totally different animal where performance tends to matter more.

    In the world of family haulers, size and price are almost perfectly correlated in most automakers lineups. How many brands have their largest vans or SUV's be the cheaper models in their lineups within the brand (save for commercial vans)?

    Bret
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, if you look at the SWB Chryslers, MPV, Sedona, those smaller vans aren't big sellers. Even Toyota didn't do well with a smallish van, their big one is now in hot demand.

    -juice
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Vans, like compact cars, have all grown over the years. Mini vans are not really mini at all, even compared to full size cargo vans.

    New vans are suppose to be a bit wider but I always thought the slimmer Venture/ Montana was better for parking and getting around tighter downtown streets.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The vans are getting bigger due to competition. When the Grand Caravan came out, Ford came out with a similar size Windstar. Then Chrysler redesigned the Grand Caravan, making it bigger. Bigger is better, they thought. Then Honda made their 1999 Odyssey absolutely huge. Ford followed with a redesigned Windstar, on par with the Odyssey's immense size. Then, Chrysler redesigned their van again, making it bigger yet. After that, Nissan redesigned their Quest making it huge and Toyota did the same with their Sienna minivan.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    GM is only making the extended length vans anymore. The Venture has a one inch longer wheelbase and 3 foot longer turning circle than the new Sienna, so it is considerably less maneuverable. The only time it would have an advantage might be when you are trying to park in a cramped garage as it is 5 inches narrower. Of course it is 5 inches narrower for your passengers as well.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    GM has had a lot of trouble with trying to make the vans wider.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Short wheelbase will still be available up here.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the Dodge Caravan with the entire SWB market to itself.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    unless you count the MPV
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    yes, it'll just be the MPV and Caravan SWB.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sedona is also kind of small, relatively speaking.

    -juice
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    ah yes, the Sedona: the van that weighs more, has less HP, costs less, and features less amenities...GREAT BARGAIN!!!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Mileage on the Sedona is horrendous also.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The engine feels pretty torquey, actually. I bet the GM vans won't feel a whole lot different.

    Lots of interesting reads in this week's Automotive News, lots centered around rebates and new products, for those interested. Plus a Detroit preview.

    Today is the first preview day of the LA show, right? Does Edmunds have their details up yet?

    -juice
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Edmunds hasn't updated the page yet...and debuts are already happening!!! MSN's NAIAS page has always been helpful in the past. They updated their page after every debut, and you could watch live feed. Sadly, I think Edmunds won't update their's until the end of the day....
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Edmunds is slow. They have to write their own reactions too, and it takes them an extra day or so. Everyone else just posts pics and specs.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.