Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

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Comments

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    part of it is up today. The Terraza, Relay, 05 Focus, Cobalt, 9-2X, 330i Performance Package and H3T are all up and running.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    ITS NOT LIVE!!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Edmunds goes and writes up an article about each car- that takes time to write, edit, and post. So as a result, they're slower than every other website covering auto shows this season.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    But MSN Autos writes short articles for NAIAS too....why aren't they slow??
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    are MSN's articles??
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    articles are pretty long- almost 75% of a page per model introduced.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    MSN Autos. Sadly, they don't cover the LA Auto show :( They do have more than 5 pictures on the sidebar with captions (ala Edmunds Road Tests/Reviews) and broadband video of the unveiling...unlike Edmunds, they actually update their page after every car unveiling. I'm guessing their guys type the articles on their WiFi laptops and upload it to the site...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I guess Edmunds takes some video, then drives back to the office to type up the report and post it along with the video, article, and photos.
  • iglooheatiglooheat Member Posts: 32
    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3180&hl- =

    I'm not sure if I posted the link correctly, but there is a picture of the Uplander on GMinsidernews.com

    I'm not all that displeased and (depending on pricing & safety), the Uplander will be my next new vehicle.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    The link requires people to log in...which I did. Can't seem to find it!! I'll try again. :)
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Looks OK, not inspiring. It's not an official pic, just an OOPS pic. It's a picture of a C6 with the Uplander in the backround which wasn't supposed to be there. Basically, it's the Relay with an extra grill under it's grill. That makes for the Chevy bowtie in the middle. Comes with 5-spoke wheels!! :)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Ya, it looks like the Saturn.

    I kind of wish they did more than just change the grills on these vans. I guess the Terazza looks a bit different. Saw the video clip on the Relay on Edmunds. Looks pretty good.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    Is the fact it's a regrille genuinely surprising to anyone?

    Bret
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    not surprising after what GM did to the Terraza/Relay.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    can't find them.... site asks me to log in. Could you maybe copy/paste them into an Edmunds post?
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    That is obviously a photochop. The pic that was accidentally released is this one:

    http://www.detnews.com/pix/galleries/2004/vette04/vette1.jpg

    It looks just like the Saturn but with a different grill and wheels. I say there has to be a different interior than the Saturn. Otherwise, why would GM wait so long to debut the SV6/Uplander?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At least the 'vette is a big improvement. I think they sorted it out nicely.

    The vans look like they use the same doors and sides. I wonder if parts will interchange. May as well, since they look identical. At least you'd have that benefit.

    -juice
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I'm sure they are good vans, but really 2-3 versions would be enough. It's too much of the same thing so far as I can see. Only hope is the Pontiac will be a little different, not holding my breath.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One version would be enough. Then make a new Rendezvous for Buick, maybe a short wheelbase model for Saturn. But they should all be different.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Luxury Van: Buick
    SWB van "sport van": Pontiac
    Young Family: Saturn
    Old Family: Chevrolet
    But really, is the Saturn needed? Is the Uplander needed? Just dump the Uplander, admit that they have no minivan but refer them to Saturn. Or, cater the Relay to city individuals with stuff city dwellers want (cooled and heated cupholders, power foldaway seats) and the Uplander to rural families with things like a rough and easy to clean floor, camping package (they did this for the Aztek- they could do it for the Uplander or Relay) and stuff like that. Why not? It'll only cost another $750 per car and you could charge extra on the Relay. I'd pay $775 for the things listed. And then you could charge an extra $755 for the Uplander- giving the Saturn, Buick, Pontiac and Chevrolet each different personalities and price points.
    Buick: Luxury Van
    Pontiac: SWB Sport Van
    Saturn: CityMobile- Cty Sophistication with AWD, heated and cooled cupholders and power foldaway seats.
    Chevrolet: Rural Farmer's Special with AWD, easy to clean floors.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I think they should dump the Pontiac version and keep the Chevy and Saturn around. This is because Chevy has been selling minivans for years, and it fits in with their brand philosophy. Saturn just needs enough volume to keep them alive until the new models come out.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    really doesn't need a minivan. Unless they make it sporty like the MPV and the SWB version.
  • birkiebobbirkiebob Member Posts: 19
    Am I correct that the Saturn Relay will only have 200hp and 220lbs torque? What are they thinking? I tow a large camper with my Windstar, wish I had a bit more power, thought Saturn was heading in the right direction with the Honda motor in the Vue, but now this seemingly lower powered engine in the Relay?? DUH!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Vue deal is a one time thing, 50k engines IIRC, a swap of parts.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    won't let Saturn use the VUE motor anywhere other than in the VUE. If they used it in the Relay and Uplander, it'd make ten more horsepower than the Odyssey and only ten less than the MDX.
  • birkiebobbirkiebob Member Posts: 19
    If the new 3.6L engine in the Rendezvous is so great, why not put that engine in the Relay? Or at least offer it for a bit more, along with the 5spd auto tranny? They will not sell me a vehicle this year, unless my Windstar completely bites the dust (then maybe another Ford with its yukky mileage)! I'll probably wait to see what types of Hybrid crossovers emerge...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The Highlander Hybrid is coming out- check that out.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    3.6L is suppose to spawn some derivatives but I suspect you will see the 3.9L coming next year go in as an option.

    Personally, I'd rather have better mileage than shave a second off my 0-60 times in a van.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Lexus is also coming out with an RX330 with hybrid technology. They're hoping to have hybrid in the Sienna by late 2004/early 2005. :)
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Adequate performance and good mileage are not mutually exclusive. Putting a slightly larger engine in a vehicle to improve acceleration doesn't always mean the vehicle will use more gas. Compare EPA ratings between 4 and 6 cylinder passenger cars and in many cases you will see there is little difference and sometimes the larger enginer is actually rated higher. Engine and transmission characterisics and and final drive gearing all play a role. A laboring undersized engine probably is not operating efficiently when the driver has the accelerator floored to merge into traffic. Compare the mileage and performance of the 3.5L Odyssey engine with the base 3.3L engine in DC vans. Although the DC vans weigh less, the mileage is the same and the performance is lower. However when DC puts in the better suited 3.8L engine, performance and mileage are about the same as the Honda.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Ya, but that's Chrysler. While I do agree that less is not always more, the current Montana / Venture have the best mileage of any van.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The 3.3L Sienna, which can run acceleration rings around the Venture, is rated at 19/27 for FWD models, and 18/24 for AWD. The current GM minivans match the Sienna in AWD, and are 1MPG short on the highway mileage in FWD. Of course, the Venture crew gives up 45 horses and 30 ish foot pounds to the Sienna's smaller mill.

    ~alpha
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Last time I looked, The government of Canada still rated the GM vans best. If that has changed with the new Sienna it's news to me. Keep in mind the GM vans are also 5 years old. Hopefully the 3.5L in the new vans can do for them what they did for the Malibu.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    But if the EPA in the US rates the GM Triplets below the Sienna, and the CAN govt rates the reverse, then there must be a difference in testing methodology, though, eh?

    In the US, the design is 7 model years old not 5, but what does this matter anyway?

    I do agree, hopefully the 3.5L will up the MPG of the vans. This will give GM the chance to have ONE SINGLE advantage over the competition, aside from price, of course, since we all know that this behind-the-times badge re-engineering of the current minis will result in steep discounts out of the gate.

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    But if Honda makes the Hybrid Odyssey, the GM minis will lose all advantages besides price, which anything badge engineered too many times (3 or 4) gets steep discounts out of the gate.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    alpha : Well "the Canada thing" is what I see here. It may be that they have not been updated for 04 models. The Sienna with all that technology is now matching the old fashioned Montana.. funny. Sienna is pretty ugly though, I would rate any other van better in looks though it does have a very nice interior.

    jchan : Hybrid technology is great but the extra cost is not made up in gas savings yet.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Now I'm not into pickups, extended cab or otherwise, but why can Honda create 4 totally different looking minivan/suv/pickup off one base platform and all GM can do is change front grills? C&D just rated the Nissan Titan 4 door cab pickup over the Ford F-150. Ouch! Sell your Ford stock! Honda's comming into the pickup market!
  • olelenaolelena Member Posts: 1
    When will G.M. finally get the Montana Sv6 in the showrooms.
    I want to buy a G.M. van. The little bit of info we have recieved sounds like I might be interested in buying but I am not going to wait much longer. I want to support the American workers at G.M.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes I saw the Honda SUT, live actually. Keep in mind that is just the concept, the production model won't be half that aggressive looking.

    Also, they did no pass-through. The rear gate is a different height than the bed sides, oddly.

    The vans were kinda blah, noone bothered to look at them. The DCX vans had people waiting to see the Stow and Go seats demo'd. Toyota only had one Sienna but it was mobbed despite not being new. Not a good sign for the GM vans...

    GM's 3 small cars drew attention. The Nomad and Solistice were cool, but the little Saturn based on the Solistice's Kappa platform was cool also. Those 3 got more attention than the new Corvette did!

    -juice
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    It is more in the nature of a latter day El Camino.

    Anyone who needs a truck for truck stuff: hauling, towing, plowing, getting through the muck will be unable to use the SUT.

    C&D hates trucks. Truck people hate C&D. If C&D picks a favorite, the favorite should worry.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    This isnt a comparisons board, so I wont go too deep, but..."The Sienna with all that technology is now matching the old fashioned Montana.. funny." Not quite. A historical trade off has been fuel efficiency vs. acceleration. The Sienna, with all that technology, manages to offer better MPG than the GM triplets, while SIMULTANEOUSLY offering better acceleration in every measure, and by a lot. (The last GM mini that Car and Driver tested, I believe a short wheelbase Venture... needed around 11 seconds to hit 60. The Sienna which Car and Driver tested, 7.8.)

    And lets all pray that GM decided to consult the IIHS webpage to fix what are some of the worst crash test results since the organization started testing in 1995. I mean, GM's minis were only tested 6 years ago... might not be enough time...

    ~alpha
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    No doubt, Sienna has better power but you can bet if you are clocking 0-60 in 8 seconds, you aren't going to get anywhere near those high gas mileage numbers either.

    I may still buy a GM mini on clear out if we decide a small SUV is too small. Should be some great bargoons.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Toyota Sienna - Built in Indiana
    Nissan Quest - Built in Mississippi
    Honda Odyssey - Built in Alabama and Canada
    Ford Freestar - Built in Canada
    DC Vans - Built in Canada and Missouri
    GM Vans - Built in the States I believe.

    If you want to "Buy American" look at the sticker which gives the percentage of domestic content in each product. You might be surprised. Many people confuse the difference between buying American and buying UAW built products. They are frequently not the same.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I couldn't care less where the vehicle is made (though I prefer the US/Canada). I look for vehicles (products) made by North American based companies. My pension has both GM and Ford (and DC think) and I have GM in my mutual fund also.

    If GM / Ford make crap I won't buy it (I have had 2 Hondas in the past) but as I see it these days, GM and Ford have some of the best values in vehicles on the road right now, especially with the rebates / low interest rates.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    popular mechanics also rated the Nissan Titan first in a comparo that included the new F150. When PM does that (PM is a GM/Ford flag waving homer publication basically) then we know the 'domestics' have been trumped.

    I guess the overhead cam engine has something to do with it

    :P

    Another market segment where the 'domestics' have been put on alert.

    olelena, any reason for specifically wanting to support GM? What's in it for you? Unless you're akin to dindak and are just enamored with everything they spit out the factory door or have some money invested in them.

    As listed above, many of the minvans available are produced in the US Canada.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Nice cheap shot.

    At least I try before I trash. Arm chair critics let others make their decisions.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    The F-150 is not "trumped" by any means. The Titan has "newness" and "radical" going for it, but it certainly isn't "light years ahead" like some seem to think.

    GM's minivans, and yes they still are, are built in the Atlanta GA area.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    GM, Ford and DC are global companies with huge operations around the world. Their stock is owned by millions of foreign investors. It is also very likely that your mutual fund owns Honda, Toyota, Renault(Nissan) or their parts suppliers stock. It's a small world these days and when you buy the stock or products of any of these big companies, like it or not, you are spreading your cash around the world.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    foreign stock. The funds have to disclose where they make their investments if not in which particular company.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    reg: Titan and Armada have a couple of major misses. The middle 2nd row seat on both is vey hard and uncomfy. Armada owners complain of a strange resonance. The 3rd row has no headroom, so really this enormous vehicle seats only 4 adults comforably, and that is pathetic.

    Add to that cheap materials, too, plus the fact that my daughter could not reach the door handles.

    The powertrain is wonderful, but perhaps Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn cut some serious corners in other areas to pay for those overhead cams? Food for thought.

    The Ford F150 interior is much better, design and materials, IMHO.

    -juice
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