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Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    As long as it's running fine now I wouldn't worry about it.

    -Frank
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869

    You can drive yourself crazy thinking about the next big thing. There's always something better down the pike - sometimes so soon that you kick yourself in the head for not waiting.

    That is so true. There will always be something better down the road and it's easy to fall into the trap of wanting to continuously upgrade. I try and focus on how much extra happiness my vehicle gave me when I made my purchase and take comfort in the fact that my "next" purchase will be even better than what's coming just around the corner.

    Just so you feel better, I usually only use Sportshift to go down one gear for compression braking or crawling in bumper to bumper traffic. The biggest benefit of having Sportshift for me is to be able to select "Sport" auto mode and enjoy the more agressive shift patterns -- something you can invoke on a non-Sportshift EAT with rapid gas pedal action.

    Regardless of what new tranny comes out with the new FXT, you can take heart that the engine will be the same. That alone is a HUGE improvement over our former SFs.

    Ken
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    "Rapid gas pedal action"? I'm all about that! :D

    Ed
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Took the XT in for service yesterday and told them the brakes were pulsating. They said if they looked and the rotors were bad, but the brakes looked good otherwise, it would be a Warranty fix, so I ended up getting my brakes fixed for free.

    Under the argument that this was not a normal wear and tear item, that means after 16 months and 25K +/-, I have had my first mechanical problem. Not too shabby so far.

    I hope my old theory that every time you take your car in to get it fixed, they break something else to get you back in and spending money does not hold true with this car.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Progress is good. It keeps the market's attention and boosts resale even for older models.

    I'm sure the '07 model with have a 7 speed auto. ;-)

    -juice
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    how bad was the pulsation? Was it only under hard braking, and barely noticeable under gradual slowing?

    I have noticed some pulsation on my '03 XS, not enough to annoy but enough to remind me that there is a bit of an issue going on there after 32k miles.

    John
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    deadeye5deadeye5 Member Posts: 93
    In other cars I have had the brake pedal pulse.
    Not with my 04 XT but, when the rotor gets
    RED HOT from a lot of brake application and you go thru water (puddle) it will warp the rotor..
    thus--pedal pulsation.....

    Deadeye
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    The pulsation was felt most strongly at light to moderate braking from higher speeds. It was not that noticeable in stop and go driving around town, or under hard braking. They machined the rotors, and I signed a warranty receipt showing that it was $78 worth of work that I did not have to pay for.

    It would not have been that big a deal either way, but I appreciated the fact that they were decent and honest about that, as I could easily see them denying a warranty claim for something like this, as brakes are typically normal wear and tear items.

    Since the XT is kind of a complex machine compared to the cheap simple trucks and other vehicles I have owned, this is the first vehicle that I have had that I have brought to the dealer for all service, so I wonder if that track record had anything to do with them giving me a break. BTW, the dealer is Royal Subaru in Decatur (Atlanta) Georgia, and so far I have been pleased with my experience buying and servicing my car there.
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    when i told her about a possible 300hp forester. that grin stayed for hours. speed sells lol.
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I could easily see them denying a warranty claim for something like this, as brakes are typically normal wear and tear items.

    I wonder if that track record had anything to do with them giving me a break.

    http://www.subaru.com/owners/care/warranty/middle.jsp?pageID=2004

    Wear Item Limited Warranty
    Wear item coverage for all models is 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Items covered include brake pad/shoe linings, clutch disk linings, and wiper blades.
    *See your Subaru Dealer for complete details."

    FYI - This also includes brake rotors.

    DaveM
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm glad the dealer handled your issue to your satisfaction.

    Out of curiosity, did you ever bring up the possibility of getting completely new rotors? The reason I ask is that machining tends to be temporary solution. A small amount of the rotor is removed in the process sometimes making it more prone to warping.

    Ken
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    cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Well, at 15,700 miles I decide to get rid of the Yohokama Geolander GS900 tires. They were really wearing thin on the outside edges but still had some tread in the middle. I was never really happy with the OEM tires but thought they would last till next Fall. I replaced them with BF Goodrich Traction T/A tires which seem to have much better traction and treadwear. I also had the car aligned and it was slightly off which probably accounted for the uneven wear.I drive mostly on mountainous roads so tires wear out faster than normal, but on the other hand traction is very important so I'm happy to have new tires. I'll post my experience with the T/As on my FXT as time goes by.
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    still liking the Yokos, now have 32K on them and they don't look even half worn yet. Plenty of grip even in the rain.

    My complaint (and I have nothing to compare it to yet, except the OEM Dunlop AS 4000s on our MPV) is that there is plenty of road noise coming from that area.

    John
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    No, I did not ask about new rotors. Hopefully the current set will hold up. I guess I just need to be careful when the pads start to wear out and get them replaced ASAP to avoid further unecessary damage to the rotors.

    My wife is the primary driver, so the car really does not get driven that hard. But we do a lot of driving in the mountains, and I wonder if that had something to do with them warping.
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    I like the Yokos, but at 25K mine are looking worn. I'm guessing I will do well to get much above 30k out of them. I'd be interested to know who has put the most miles on their's so far. When I get them replaced, my main focus will be on all weather capability and long life, with a secondary focus on dry road traction / performance. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    speaking of tires, anyone buy from the Subaru dealer using their Subaru Bucks? IIRC, the dealer has an alliance with Tire Rack and can be competitive. Any strings attached (eg limited selection, only mount on OEM rims, etc.)?

    John
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    declansdaddeclansdad Member Posts: 120
    My wife complained of the brakes pulsating on our 2003 MPV just after having the car services. Wouldn't you know it, the lugs were on too tight; I broke out the torque wrench and re-tightened the lugs to 75 ft. lbs.....voila, no more brake pulsation.

    So far, no problems on the new 2005 FXT. The only real problem is my right foot!

    Michael
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    cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    In addition to the Traction T/A I also looked at the Michelin HydroEdge. They have very impressive numbers, but also very pricy. If you are going to keep the vehicle for a long time they will pay off in the long run. I have a history of trading cars every 3-5 yrs so didn't want to invest that much money in tires.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    300hp in a Forester is ridiculous, irresponsible even.

    Get in line behind me. :o)

    -juice
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    hoxhox Member Posts: 24
    I'd love to have your feedback here. My son has a WRX Wagon which is fun to drive but not fancy enough for me. I need the Limited versions for my hauls. Which of these is the most fun to drive? Most practical?

    Hox
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wish I had your problem. :)

    The Legacy GT will be the most fun, as it will be the best handling of that group, and most like the WRX in terms of feel. It also has quicker steering and larger brakes than the Outback XT.

    The Outback XT is probably the most practical. It will be better on rough roads than the Legacy because of the larger tires and the raised HD suspension. It has a 2700 pound tow rating too. I'm not sure what the Legacy's tow rating is, as it's not listed in the brochure. You can check the owner's manual if that's important to you.

    The Forester XT is probably the best bang-for-the-buck, but it is a bit smaller than the Legacy and Outback. It's built on a version of the Impreza platform. It can tow 2400 pounds, and is the only one here with a full-size spare tire.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester and Outback are more practical, Leg GT is more fun.

    Drive all three, you can't go wrong.

    -juice
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    hoxhox Member Posts: 24
    What's new on the Forester for 2006? Is the 6 speed for real? Any idea on the Outback/Legacy?

    Hox
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Check subdriven for info on the facelifted Forester. Here's info on Subaru of Japan:
    http://www.subaru.co.jp/topics/t-2005/forester_superchoice/

    I assume this will be our '06 and we'll probably find out official details at the end of March during the NY Auto Show.

    The 6 speed rumors come from dealerships that are sending their techs to training for 6 speed Foresters and Legacy's.

    -Dennis
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So far at least a few things seem very likely:

    * 6 speed on at least some Foresters and Legacys
    * Nav option on Legacy
    * Tribeca launch

    -juice
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    tangerinedreamtangerinedream Member Posts: 6
    I had almost decided on a FWD V6 Vue when I decided to test a Forester XT Premium. What a sweet treat that test drive was! Now I'm going back and forth - yes, the VUE has a cheap interior, but the Honda V6 has a lot of power and I like the overall look. The interior/back seat of the XT seemed smaller, but it was certainly more luxurious than the VUE. I didn't like the wagon look as much - I liked feeling a little higher up in the VUE. And on it goes...

    One thing I noticed about the XT is the door - there is no frame for the window. What has your experience been with the windows? (It seems strange to open a door with the window raised and seemingly unsupported and definitely unframed.)

    Next, what's your take on resale values - do you see the Honda V6 boosting the VUE?

    Finally, is the black leather going to fry my butt this summer? LOL I've never had a black interior in any car (other than my dad's '71 Torino).

    Thanks for your help. The forums are great!!
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    The reason you probably liked the XT so much is because it handles better, can run circles around the Vue and will leave the Vue choking in its dust. Two of the trade-offs for the better performance and handling are the Forester's smaller size (hence the smaller back seat) and it has a lower center of gravity (with the accompanying decrease in seat height). Of course while you might prefer sitting higher, keep in mind that the Vue did poorly in government rollover testing.

    The frameless windows work fine. In fact, there are a number of high-end cars from Mercedes, Porsche and Lexus that also have frameless windows.

    Yes the Honda V6 will probably boost the Vue's resale value but then really the only place for it to go is up :-)

    Yep black leather can get hot in the summer. However, if you use a sun shade in the front window and tint the other windows (which I recommend doing regardless), the leather won't get too hot to sit on.

    -Frank
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    awd is great no matter what section of the world you live in. i will never go back to fwd after seeing what my fxt can do in rain/sand/snow.

    also forester xt crash and bumper ratings are world class.

    also the foresters suspension does NOT collapse in accident avoidance manuevers unlike the Vue. oh wait they did a recall on that. wonder what else they forgot.

    foresters also make consumer reports more reliable list and are consumer reports top small suv pick.

    the black leather gets hot but the a/c QUICKLY cools the interior, so just open the door , start it up and in no time, its bearable again.

    subaru in general does very well on resale.
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    ailail Member Posts: 10
    on the Forester? The Outback VDC has it. CR is touting it as the most important new safety feature in a long time. We're considering both the Forester and the Outback, and are wondering if the ESC should be the deciding point.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    ESC is certainly "nice to have" and due to articles like CR's and public perception it is quickly becoming a "must have" option. Unfortunately Subaru has been a little slow picking up on this trend but will no doubt have a widely available ESC option for future model years. But to answer your question, is it a deciding factor? Not for me but then I view anti-lock brakes and front airbags in much the same way. Both are nice to have but in the case of antilock brakes, a competent driver can usually stop just as quickly (or quicker) without them. Meanwhile, front airbags provide limited additional protection for a properly belted in occupant (FYI airbags were originally designed as a passive restraining system for people who don't wear seatbelts). However, if you’re the type who wants all the latest safety advances then you should probably go with the Outback.

    -Frank
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    couple comments.

    1) Appears to be more wind noise issues with frameless.
    2) Frameless ok if window all the way up or all the way down. They rattle if they are in between.

    John
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Personally, I could not stand the artificial feel of the electric power steering on the Vue. That alone rules it out as being even remotely sporty.

    Great engine, yes, but the seats were soft and spongy and I just could not get over that steering. The Redline suspension is decent but it's lot lower than the standard Vue, so you'd lose that high vantage point you liked.

    Equinox is on the same platform is looks much more competent, but that doesn't get the Honda engine (it's the old 3.4l pushrod instead).

    Dunno, and engine alone is not enough to draw me to a car, new or used. I don't think it'll get much better resale than a regular Saturn, look at the British cars that got Acura Legend engines about 15 years ago. Would you want an old Sterling today?

    -juice
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I asked the owner of my dealership about VDC when the VDC OB first came out. He can afford any Subaru he wants and his wife is driving her second LL Bean Outback.

    He lives in snowy Western NJ and hasn't ever felt the he, or his wife, ever needed stability control. In depends how "in-tune" to you driving you are. Sliding a little with AWD? Just gently add some throttle. No big thang. :-)

    -Dennis
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    ailail Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the feedback.
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Most of the time when I am looking at land for work I am in my truck, but on several occasions I have been in my Forester and I have both bumped the chin on my XT and dragged its butt. No really visible damage either time. Kind of a shame because the traction available on mud or steep dirt / gravel roads is excellent making the vehicle competent for most conditions I would encounter while light off roading.

    I was just wondering if someone knew the comparison between the approach / departure angles between the Forester XT and the Outback XT. Thanks!
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    In case anyone cares, I asked this on the Outback Board and got an answer. Outback has worse approach, slightly better departure and slightly better breakover.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I'm surprised to hear that. I would think that the Forester, with its shorter wheel base, would have the greater breakover angle.

    -Frank
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some OBs have 8.7" of clearance now, 8.4" minimum. Forester has 7.5".

    Breakover angle is a combination of wheelbase (short is good) and clearance between the axles (more is good).

    -juice
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Outback Wheelbase (105.1") is 5.7% greater than the Forester (99.4").

    Base Outback clearance (8.4") is 12% greater than the Forester (7.5").

    Therefore, breakover is slightly better for the Outback.
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    4mygrey4mygrey Member Posts: 26
    Sorry to drag out this thread but I've been away and just had to respond...

    I traded in my 7 year old Saturn SL2 when I bought my 05 premium XT...lets just say people weren't exactly lining up to buy it from me.

    I hope in 10 years or so when I go to sell my XT someone will say, "that's a Subaru...it has a good 10 years left"...no one could say that about my car...I couldn't even keep it for the 10 years I had planned. Consumer Reports gives the VUE a "black hole" for reliability (lowest score of five). I would never buy or not buy a car based on CR ratings alone, but in this case I'm inclined to agree with their Saturn ratings based on personal experience.

    About the XT (which gets the top rating for reliability)...Though it looks smaller than some of the others on the outside, that is mostly becuase it is low...but it is big where it counts and has the space where you need it (in front and cargo). It's a blast to drive and the sun roof is fabulous. Watch yourself though (I was pulled over in first month...just a warning...whew!).

    Perhaps I'm obsessed with reliability...I very much wanted the increased space of a Pilot or Highlander but didn't get one becuase of several issues with the Pilot and an acceleration problem that Toyota hasn't fixed with the Highlander. Before my Saturn I very breifly had a brand new cherry red Pontiac Sunfire. This thing was such a lemon the dealer finally had to give me my money back, but not until months had passed...months in the shop, on the phone, driving cruddy loaners...once you deal with that, you make sure it never happens again.

    So it seems like you are on the fence. Why not go with reputation and reliability? Just my two cents. Sorry to go on so long.
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    nds70nds70 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2004 Forester XS and at 21,000 miles noticed the brakes pulsating when applied at high speeds (freeway driving). The dealer checked and machined the rotors and they were smooth for about 3500 miles. Now they are pulsating again and I am due to take it in for a service. I'm wondering if I should suggest they replace the rotors or check the entire system for malfunctions? They did the rotors under warranty.
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    crashton6crashton6 Member Posts: 245
    Turning rotors rarely leads to a long rotor life. They took material off when they turned them & in doing so made them more susceptible to warping. New rotors are what's needed. I suspect Subaru tells dealers to try turning as a first step. I would hope the second step is new rotors.

    Chuck
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same here, question is, is that wear and tear or will they cover it?

    -juice
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    tacamojoetacamojoe Member Posts: 16
    I just bought my first Subaru! It's a new Silver 2005 base FXT!

    Here are the options:

    Auto dimming mirror, Security System kit, cargo tray, rear bumper cover, splash guards, Turbo Boost Gauge, and cross bar kit for $25810 minus $1450 cash back = $24360. (taxes, licencing, etc., still needs to be added)Is that a good deal?

    The dealership has to bring it in from another dealer a about 135 mile away from him, so I wont get it until next weekend. In the meantime their acountant is supposed to e-mail me the total this week since I live 5 hours from the dealership (yep, I live in the sticks.)

    I'm not sure what the final cost will be after taxes, licencing or additional fees yet. I'm worried about the fees since I don't have a clue what they'll be yet.

    I put $200 earnest money down until the car comes in. Then I'll look it over and if all goes well, drive the spirited thing home.

    Do you have any advice for the Rookie? I've never owned a Subaru or a turbo for that matter.

    I don't buy new cars to often. The sales manager didn't really care for me coming in with an Edmunds report in my hands. He complained quite a bit about his invoice costs and the cost of having to go get the car (additional 135 miles for him one way.) I want a fair deal (don't we all!)

    I live on the Minnesota/Canadian border, so COLD weather is going to be an issue. I'm having them add an engine block heater for an additional 140.

    I live off the pavement and have to drive on 1 mile of gravel to get to my house. Is dust in the intake something I'm going to have to keep a close eye on?

    Enough questions for now...I can't wait to get my hands (and foot) on this car. It's going to be a very long week!!!

    The Rookie!
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    DonluceDonluce Member Posts: 41
    Dear Rookie,

    I just ordered a XT Premium Package, Automatic, with just about the same options you have, for the out the door price of $2,600.

    Don
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    cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Rookie - Welcome to the Subaru family. I think you bought the right car for your living conditions. It's a great car in cold weather and the engine w/turbo is awesome. Keep an eye on the air filter if you drive in dusty conditions and keep the oil changed regularly and you shouldn't have any problems.

    The price you quoted is about right, but be on the look out for add ons like doc fees, inventory fees and other such things. Some are justified, but others are just a way to increase profits. Good luck!!
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    given that this is your first subaru and it is a FXT i advise the following:

    1) beware of your face freezing into a smile when driving it. this car is flat out fast and handles very nice. if you search this thread you can see others who have had mods that make it handle better.

    2) this car rocks in the snow in stock mode but can handle even better with a great set of snows.

    3) if you have a significant other be prepared for battles over who gets to drive.

    4) watch out for brenda making left hand turns, bob wearing his classic helmet and juice grunting ( bad inside jokes )

    5) if ya stomp on the gas you will pay at the pump as it will really suck up the gas ( but see #1 )

    6) there are a few minor complaints with the auto a/c thingee that was fixed for your model year. i find the car interior horribly lit but outside of this, this car super rocks.

    7) you will find it hard to go to another 'sunroof' as yours is huge.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't remember ever paying more than $50 or $70 for an installed block heater, but it's been 7 years since I had one put in.

    It's good that the dealer is going to email you the total. Make sure it really includes everything since you should focus on and negotiate your out the door cost more than the line items.

    Check out Subaru Forester: Prices Paid & Buying Experience for recent deals too.

    Steve, Host
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    pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Calgary here, we have winter.

    You may feel invicible with AWD and an ability to smoke absolutely everything at the lights....but my experience with the XT and our other car - FWD Golf with Michelin X-Ice winter tires - is that the stock Geos on the XT are not that great in winter conditions, and that FWD and winter tires are at least as good as a stock XT. If you aren't careful, the motor/AWD in the XT can write cheques your tires cannot cash. No incidents yet, but ours is getting winter wheels/tires next year....

    On handling, it's been debated here many times before, but depends what you are used to. If you're coming as I was from something similar (older Forester), it's fine, but it's no sports car without mods. Again, get to know the car's handling characteristics before you push it.

    Other than that, what swampy said. There's not many things I'd rather do than drive the XT.

    Some minor stuff...

    Not used the block heater yet, and spring is here. I don't park outside very often.

    We have the moonroof in every XT, but I dont think the base model in the US does. The moonroof rocks, but the turbo rocks more. Throw away all your CDs and listen to the music the car makes.

    Another tip is to get rockblocker 3M on the front of the car asap. The paint chips very easily.

    Lastly, if you're getting an MT, make sure you go for a long test drive, esp. around the city. With the ultra low gearing and instant boost, you MUST like shifting gears. If you're on the fence, get the auto (FWIW I have MT and love it).

    JP

    PS: Your dealer sounds like an [non-permissible content removed]. I'd walk, go some place I like.
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    tacamojoetacamojoe Member Posts: 16
    Thanks Steve. It seemed really high to me too. I'd have my small town mechanic install a block heater but I don't think he's familiar with Subaru's and I don't want to have a problem and somehow void out the warranty. It is similar to installing a heater on any other engine block?

    I also want to install a remote starter for those cold below zero mornings. would this be easy enough for anybody (mechanics are pretty familiar installing them on the typical ford, chrysler, or chevy) to install? Does the turbo, boxter, or anti-theft make installing a remote starter any different from another car?

    I'd consider having the Subaru dealer installing one, but since they through the guilt trip on me about what a good deal I got on the FXT, I'm reluctant to ask since they have already soaked me for 140 installing a block heater.

    Your advice is welcomed!

    Thanks!
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