MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
We should know lots more in about a month. I really hope they do a good job on this car, the ION just isn't quite there and I know GM can make a good car.
The very fact that this board is so dead is tell tale evidence that GM doesn't have a prayer with the Cobalt. No one takes American small cars seriously... they're strictly rental fleet vehicles.
According to an article in the Detroit Free press (I'd post the link but the board [non-permissible content removed] will get upset).... GM is considering this a critical project to get back into the small car market.
They actually think they can compete with the Civic Carolla and now Mazda3 crowd! I'll bet my next paycheck that the best this car will get from the reviewers is a big yawn. The last good small car GM built was the Saturn when it was introduced. Now look at it! It's a pathetic failure that won't sell without incentives and it's ALL GM's fault for cutting the funds in favor crappy SUV development (which, ironically, are lousy compared to the competition).
You seem to be up on all things GM, when do you think we will get a good look at pre-production versions of the Cobalt/Pursuit? Is there any chance that these will come with a 2.4 liter version of the Ecotec?
The reason things have died off here might be because there has been no further info since the initial releases a couple of months ago. Car won't be seen for a few week, things will pick up when there is more to talk about.
I think the Cobalt will be introduced at New York, or possibly Toronto.
GM has been saving at least one introduction for Canada and New York, as these shows become increasingly important.
For better or worse, once an actual model has been put out for the public to see, there will be a flurry of posts here. They still will not have much to do with predicting sales, however.
Small cars with big four cylinders are my cup of tea. I would love to have a new Corolla with the Camry's 2.4 liter four, but Toyota won't make it.
I guess my options will be limited to the Cobalt, Mitsu Ralliart and the Mazda 3/Ford Focus, although that isn't a bad group of cars. The 2.5 liter Sentra, for some reason, does nothing for me.
Ditto on the small cars with powerful engines. What I like about this configuration is the way the car seems to be wrapped around me. I also like the proportions for aesthetics, fuel efficiency and ease of parking.
Right now, I'm driving a Jag X-Type, but the hood is too long and the track too narrow in proportion, so it feels like steering a barge. The car has a weird combination of harsh suspension but a sensation of not being planted firmly on the road.
The Cobalt is on my radar as a possible company car. Could be perfect for high, daily usage, freeing up my capital for weekend toys. ;o)
Yea! What ateixiera said. The Scion tC looks like a very good new offering. Will have the looks of a coupe but will actually be hatchback design, with a good features portfolio, and a re-tuned version of the Camry 2.4L VVTi.
And heck, whats wrong with the Sentra 2.5S? Its one of the few small cars that comes with side airbags protection for both head AND chest (Elantra and Accent are the only others that come to mind.. does the Mazda 3 have a chest side airbag in addition to the curtain... thats ideal, IMO). Anyway, my 2.5L Sentra has been flawless over its first 18,000 miles, and not many compact econocars with autos can hit 60 in under 8 seconds....
Nothing in particular. I just don't care much for the styling (inside and out), plus the 2.5 Nissan isn't quite as quite, smooth and economical as the Toyota four.
Don't get me wrong, I would take a Sentra 2.5 if someone handed me the keys, but it would not be my first or even second choice.
How do does everybody feel the Cobalt will stack up against the foreign competition. Will it be able to overcome the Cavalier stigma?
Saturn is a brand name for a line of cars, not just "a small car". Also, the Cobalt will have some European designed componentry, so it's not a typical "American small car meant for rentals".
BTW: Look in most rental fleets these days and more and more Corollas, Sentras, and Proteges are ready to jump into.
Yeah, activity from one message board is not an indicator. I remember how some "automobile purists were predicting the Caddy CTS to be a "big flop" and "another Cimmarron", just from their "feelings", not reality.
Personally, I can't wait to see the new Cobalt. If the Cobalt overcomes the Cavalier stigma, it will probably be the top compact. The Cavalier is panned by absolutely everyone, and it still sells big numbers.
I might just consider getting one rather than paying a premium for something like the Saab 9-3 Hatch as my primary car. Then I could put the extra scratch either in a completely loaded next generation Miata or the Solstice.
Edmunds.com does some things great. Like TMV, these discussion boards, True Cost to Own. Other things, they do far less well. I would say their comparisons truly suck, and put no credence in them whatsoever. In their standard Road Tests, half of them are called "full tests", but then you click on the links to performance and specifications, and theres no instrumented data. Um, how can it be a full test if theres no data. In any given review, I'll bet theres a higher percentage of factual errors compared to the leading auto publications.
The Cavalier is the lowest rated small car by CR, and I cant understand why people choose it over much better, similarly priced entries such as the Elantra. From all that I've read and seen so far, the Cobalt SHOULD BE a good enough vehicle to buck the Cavalier's horrid image, and kudos to GM for being smart enough to change the name.
Now, with respect to the Sentra, as long as it handles well, I dont really care about the rear suspension bits. Similar to how I dont really care about the Malibu's pushrods, as long as it delivers the performance expected of a V6 in terms of power and smoothness. Yes, IMO, DOHC is better, but in the Malibu, the pushrod unit gets the job done, and is ultra efficient to boot. The lines on the Sentra are boring, as the car is in its twilight years, but the interior is actually pretty nice, enhanced a bit for the 04 model year. The 2.5L is NOT as refined as the 2.4L units from Honda and Toyota, but its close. IMO, its bigger downfall is in fuel economy- I average about 26 MPG in my Sentra auto, and my parents about 27 or 28 in their Camry LE 4. That said, the Sentra sold me on its combination of features, safety (the side chest/head airbags as I mentioned before.. and std. ABS), and power. I felt very good driving it, much more so than other small cars I drove. No its not for everyone, but especially now towards the end of its cycle with the big rebate- $2500, its worth a look. You can easily get a 2.5S loaded for about 14K ish.
alpha: have not driven that Sentra, so I'll take your word for it. The old Maxima, which had a similar torsion beam in the rear, had some axle hop in bumps along a turn. It performed well up to that point, so that really stood out in my mind.
I think it looks more like the 2004 Civic. The headlights are pulled back a bit more.
Either way, it looks far better than the 'bu to my eyes.
Well, let's see the final product before we give it a verdict.
Incentives have made it pretty cut throat. It would have to be a innovative knock-out to charge a premium (think Sienna). Most cars in this class will have to compete based on price.
definitely confirms the shots a few months ago of the rear end of the car behind some woman were of the Cobalt. Not thrilled with the front grille as it could be more modern looking but the rest looks good. Makes the Ion look like dirt.
It should be interesting to see how the non-SS Cobalt coupe stacks up to the recently announced Scion tC. Heck, throw in the Saturn ION Coupe and Civic EX, and it sounds like the makings of a fun 2005 small coupe comparo.
~alpha
PS- For kicks, I just went to carsdirect.com and priced a fully loaded Cavalier 2Door LS SPORT auto. MSRP would be $20,770... ARE THEY KIDDING? Prices have got to be more realistic next time around, or else they are going to need incentives of at least $2500 out of the gates. (FWIW, carsdirect.com price is $15,958 and invoice, $19,658). This is for a car w/o leather, w/o NAV, w/o side curtains, w/o stability control....
I like it. It has an evolutionary rather than revolutionary look to it vs. the Cavalier. Rear tail lights have the Impala SS look to them. Hope it has an interior to match those looks!
Comments
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
-juice
;-)
We should know lots more in about a month. I really hope they do a good job on this car, the ION just isn't quite there and I know GM can make a good car.
-juice
According to an article in the Detroit Free press (I'd post the link but the board [non-permissible content removed] will get upset).... GM is considering this a critical project to get back into the small car market.
They actually think they can compete with the Civic Carolla and now Mazda3 crowd! I'll bet my next paycheck that the best this car will get from the reviewers is a big yawn. The last good small car GM built was the Saturn when it was introduced. Now look at it! It's a pathetic failure that won't sell without incentives and it's ALL GM's fault for cutting the funds in favor crappy SUV development (which, ironically, are lousy compared to the competition).
Cobalt: Number one small car in America?
WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
Quick Edmunds! Rush to patent this unique invention!
You seem to be up on all things GM, when do you think we will get a good look at pre-production versions of the Cobalt/Pursuit? Is there any chance that these will come with a 2.4 liter version of the Ecotec?
The reason things have died off here might be because there has been no further info since the initial releases a couple of months ago. Car won't be seen for a few week, things will pick up when there is more to talk about.
GM has been saving at least one introduction for Canada and New York, as these shows become increasingly important.
For better or worse, once an actual model has been put out for the public to see, there will be a flurry of posts here. They still will not have much to do with predicting sales, however.
I guess my options will be limited to the Cobalt, Mitsu Ralliart and the Mazda 3/Ford Focus, although that isn't a bad group of cars. The 2.5 liter Sentra, for some reason, does nothing for me.
Right now, I'm driving a Jag X-Type, but the hood is too long and the track too narrow in proportion, so it feels like steering a barge. The car has a weird combination of harsh suspension but a sensation of not being planted firmly on the road.
The Cobalt is on my radar as a possible company car. Could be perfect for high, daily usage, freeing up my capital for weekend toys. ;o)
Economy cars are by default less exciting. The Malibu has had good reviews, so Cobalt might surprise some.
-juice
And heck, whats wrong with the Sentra 2.5S? Its one of the few small cars that comes with side airbags protection for both head AND chest (Elantra and Accent are the only others that come to mind.. does the Mazda 3 have a chest side airbag in addition to the curtain... thats ideal, IMO). Anyway, my 2.5L Sentra has been flawless over its first 18,000 miles, and not many compact econocars with autos can hit 60 in under 8 seconds....
~alpha
Nothing in particular. I just don't care much for the styling (inside and out), plus the 2.5 Nissan isn't quite as quite, smooth and economical as the Toyota four.
Don't get me wrong, I would take a Sentra 2.5 if someone handed me the keys, but it would not be my first or even second choice.
How do does everybody feel the Cobalt will stack up against the foreign competition. Will it be able to overcome the Cavalier stigma?
Slap a rear multilink and make it look more interesting and then there would be nothing wrong.
-juice
BTW: Look in most rental fleets these days and more and more Corollas, Sentras, and Proteges are ready to jump into.
Yeah, activity from one message board is not an indicator. I remember how some "automobile purists were predicting the Caddy CTS to be a "big flop" and "another Cimmarron", just from their "feelings", not reality.
-juice
The Cavalier is the lowest rated small car by CR, and I cant understand why people choose it over much better, similarly priced entries such as the Elantra. From all that I've read and seen so far, the Cobalt SHOULD BE a good enough vehicle to buck the Cavalier's horrid image, and kudos to GM for being smart enough to change the name.
Now, with respect to the Sentra, as long as it handles well, I dont really care about the rear suspension bits. Similar to how I dont really care about the Malibu's pushrods, as long as it delivers the performance expected of a V6 in terms of power and smoothness. Yes, IMO, DOHC is better, but in the Malibu, the pushrod unit gets the job done, and is ultra efficient to boot.
The lines on the Sentra are boring, as the car is in its twilight years, but the interior is actually pretty nice, enhanced a bit for the 04 model year. The 2.5L is NOT as refined as the 2.4L units from Honda and Toyota, but its close. IMO, its bigger downfall is in fuel economy- I average about 26 MPG in my Sentra auto, and my parents about 27 or 28 in their Camry LE 4. That said, the Sentra sold me on its combination of features, safety (the side chest/head airbags as I mentioned before.. and std. ABS), and power. I felt very good driving it, much more so than other small cars I drove. No its not for everyone, but especially now towards the end of its cycle with the big rebate- $2500, its worth a look. You can easily get a 2.5S loaded for about 14K ish.
I'm looking forward to the redesign.
~alpha
1) Gobs of power with the Ecotec
2) Rock bottom price after rebates
We had a leased 99 and it was ok, but very unrefined. Wouldn't go back. Looking forward to Cobalt.
Looks like the pre-04 Civic. Meh.
Thanks for the picture. Can't see much but it's better than nothing. Looks fine so far.
I don't really see pre 2004 Civic, but I do see 2000- current Ford Taurus. Could be worse....
~alpha
I think it looks more like the 2004 Civic. The headlights are pulled back a bit more.
Either way, it looks far better than the 'bu to my eyes.
-juice
Flat sheet metal dings easily.
-juice
And flexes. The early 1990s Chevrolet/GMC pickup trucks had creaseless sides that not only looked bad, but provided little in terms of rigidity.
Not a big deal. You see it more in pictures than in real life.
Incentives have made it pretty cut throat. It would have to be a innovative knock-out to charge a premium (think Sienna). Most cars in this class will have to compete based on price.
-juice
thankfully, no swooshes.
I just wish they'd put pushrods in it. I really want all that torque and 'launch feel'.
It should be interesting to see how the non-SS Cobalt coupe stacks up to the recently announced Scion tC. Heck, throw in the Saturn ION Coupe and Civic EX, and it sounds like the makings of a fun 2005 small coupe comparo.
~alpha
PS- For kicks, I just went to carsdirect.com and priced a fully loaded Cavalier 2Door LS SPORT auto. MSRP would be $20,770... ARE THEY KIDDING? Prices have got to be more realistic next time around, or else they are going to need incentives of at least $2500 out of the gates. (FWIW, carsdirect.com price is $15,958 and invoice, $19,658). This is for a car w/o leather, w/o NAV, w/o side curtains, w/o stability control....
-juice