price is a determining factor when cars in this category can scream: "CHEAPER THAN XYZ! JUST $9995 COMPARED TO $10,001!" And a Civic EX costs $18K with no leather, no NAV, no fancy stuff except a Sunroof.
Well, I think Car & Driver did say that the new Malibu has an interior that's "nearly" up to Korean standards. In this day and age, that's a compliment.
So, let's hope they say the same thing about the Cobalt!
Actually, look closer. I'll point out some very specific things, because often people just dismiss Kia and Hyundai without even looking.
Look at the trunk on the Sonata, it's double-hinged like BMWs are. Camrys and Accord both have the cheap and space-robbing gooseneck hinges. Even Mercedes do.
The Sonata's hood has nice gas struts to hold it up. Again, you'll find cost cutting on most Japanese cars - cheap prop rods basically.
Then look inside, especially on entry level Accords and Camrys. The headliner are lint-sprayed-on-cardboard quality. Or Peach fuzz, pick your poison.
The Sonata has a nice padded headliner with a fabric covering.
So, look at these things, and I'd argue the Sonata uses better quality materials and even better design in those areas.
Camry and Accord are well built and tolerances are very tight, but cost cutting runs rampant throughout both.
So yeah, target the Korean interiors, and maybe the Japanese tolerances.
without cost cutting, we'd have Accord LX sedans on the market for $29,999 and Sonatas for $25,999. Hyundai skimped elsewhere to deliver higher quality materials somewhere else.
people generalize based on outdated information. Look at new designs before judging. Would you like it if people based opinioins on Hyundais by the quality of Excels?
Subaru AWD, a Hyundai warranty, a dealer like a Saturn dealer, and instead of Grand Am incentives, I want Oldsmobile incentives. (Think $5,000 off and more!)
Arent the "cheap and space robbing gooseneck hinges" in the Camry nonetheless hidden, and non-intrusive to the cargo hold? I beleive so. IMO, as the Camry setup is CHEAPER to produce than the double hinged Hyundai trunk design, yet yields the same effective result, its a win-win. This type of cost cutting does not bother me in the least. (Additionally, the current Camry and Accord both use gas struts to prop the hood...)
I'm just saying... you should use better evidence of cost cutting, rather than ones that 99% of consumers won't notice. That said, there are tradeoffs that most consumers will tolerate- for example, the availabilty of more safety features, higher tech engines offering better fuel economy and acceleration, autos w/ 5 speeds instead of 4 to complement these engines.... etc.
Hey, we're talking about a miracle car here, anything goes. ;-)
The hinges are sort of hidden, but they do rob space. Toyota just covered that area. At least you won't crush groceries now.
Struts for the hood? Maybe EX V6 models get them, low end models don't? It's possible we are both right.
ABS is not standard on the Camry, we frustrated ourselves trying to find a 4 cyl 5 speed manual with ABS to no avail. Looked at several dealers' on-line inventories.
Happy Holidays to all! I cant sleep because Im so frekin excited. (I'm still a little kid at heart!!)
jchan- there have been no Camry V6 models available with manual transmissions since the 2002 MY redesign. All SE V6 Camrys have the 5sp. auto.
juuice- maybe you are right about the Accord- it was an EX model I remember propping the hood of. However, ALL Camrys have strut supported hoods, and Toyota did such a great job of packaging in the Camry that it still has 16.7 cu. ft. of room in the trunk, even with the semi intrusion. (Still a win-win in my book). Also, just curious- in which part of the country are you located?
Lots of cars dont have ABS standard, it hasnt taken off as all the safety advocates (including myself) would have hoped. If youre referencing cost cutting, not sure on your point there, since Hyundai doesnt offer ABS standard on any except the XG, and not at all on the Accent.
Will ABS once again be standard on the Cobalt (and Pursuit in Canada)? That would be a great surprise. Its one of the few things the Cavalier used to have going for it. Any speculation on pricing.
I'm near the capital, in a DC suburb. Went to 355 Toyota and the one near Rt. 29 and Randolph Rd, I forget the name.
We drove an SE 5 speed without ABS. Actually we thought the shifter was very clunky so that ruled it out, but still we were not able to drive a car with the equipment we wanted (ABS + Manual Tranny).
ABS used to be standard on all GMs but because other brands didn't follow it was adding cost to the Cavalier so they axed it. Hopefully the upper trims of the Cobalt will have ABS standard though! That's what they did on the Malibu.
If thats real I'm not very impressed, looks pretty blah. Mazda 3 looks quite a bit more attractive. Will fit in with Corolla and Civic 4 door models though.
will look more aggressive. Kind of difficult to make judgment til we see more pictures and see it in person. Hopefully the interior is light-years ahead of the Cavalier and the ION.
GM said that the new Cobalt will steal away import buyers. I'm still not seeing it through this picture. It looks great, but nothing unique. I think more teenage buyers (the demographic for compact cars) would rather buy a funky Mazda 3, luxurious Corolla, or tuneable/dependable Civic. Since it looks like the Malibu, I wonder if it'll have the same SEVERELY cost-cutted interior...wow, I AM SOO EXCITED FOR AUTO SHOWS!
If its interior is severely "cost-cutted", then they completely skipped putting an interior in the Altima to save money.
The Cobalt will have more power than all but the Mazda 3.
Its funny up here in Canada its all about cost, Cavalier and Sunfire combined sell more than the Civic I believe. Cobalt/Pursuit may sell less. Atleast they won't be an embarassment for GM like Cav/Sunfire.
are fairly high in my area. The Pontiac Sunfire 1SB well equipped model starts at $15,000. The Chevrolet Cavalier LS (well equipped) starts at $14,000. Not exactly value when an Elantra is just $12,000.
Ugh... Looks very rental car to me :-(... Thankfully for GM, Ford's redesign of the Focus seems to have "rentaled" that car as well. GM keeps making these dramatic statements of how world beating their new models are going to be... Do they even drive the competition? Mazda 3, Corolla, or Civic anyone? Has anyone been overseas to drive one of their own Astras?
Comments
Still, it's what is underneath that sheet metal that'll count.
-juice
I wouldn't use a Malibu as a benchmark. A Corolla or Mazda 3 would be better bechmark. Even a Protege is a good benchmark.
-juice
So, let's hope they say the same thing about the Cobalt!
Look at the trunk on the Sonata, it's double-hinged like BMWs are. Camrys and Accord both have the cheap and space-robbing gooseneck hinges. Even Mercedes do.
The Sonata's hood has nice gas struts to hold it up. Again, you'll find cost cutting on most Japanese cars - cheap prop rods basically.
Then look inside, especially on entry level Accords and Camrys. The headliner are lint-sprayed-on-cardboard quality. Or Peach fuzz, pick your poison.
The Sonata has a nice padded headliner with a fabric covering.
So, look at these things, and I'd argue the Sonata uses better quality materials and even better design in those areas.
Camry and Accord are well built and tolerances are very tight, but cost cutting runs rampant throughout both.
So yeah, target the Korean interiors, and maybe the Japanese tolerances.
-juice
Hyundai uses heavier metals and a relatively old tech engine. That's why curb weight is fairly high, and performance is only so-so.
But we're talking about interiors and who the Cobalt should target for interior quality, and I think the answer is definitely not Honda or Toyota.
-juice
Malibu's interior improved a lot, they just didn't pick nice colors IMO.
-juice
How about adding Subaru AWD and a Hyundai warranty, with Saturn sales and service?
-juice
-juice
I'm just saying... you should use better evidence of cost cutting, rather than ones that 99% of consumers won't notice. That said, there are tradeoffs that most consumers will tolerate- for example, the availabilty of more safety features, higher tech engines offering better fuel economy and acceleration, autos w/ 5 speeds instead of 4 to complement these engines.... etc.
But I digress....
~alpha
The hinges are sort of hidden, but they do rob space. Toyota just covered that area. At least you won't crush groceries now.
Struts for the hood? Maybe EX V6 models get them, low end models don't? It's possible we are both right.
ABS is not standard on the Camry, we frustrated ourselves trying to find a 4 cyl 5 speed manual with ABS to no avail. Looked at several dealers' on-line inventories.
-juice
jchan- there have been no Camry V6 models available with manual transmissions since the 2002 MY redesign. All SE V6 Camrys have the 5sp. auto.
juuice- maybe you are right about the Accord- it was an EX model I remember propping the hood of. However, ALL Camrys have strut supported hoods, and Toyota did such a great job of packaging in the Camry that it still has 16.7 cu. ft. of room in the trunk, even with the semi intrusion. (Still a win-win in my book). Also, just curious- in which part of the country are you located?
Lots of cars dont have ABS standard, it hasnt taken off as all the safety advocates (including myself) would have hoped. If youre referencing cost cutting, not sure on your point there, since Hyundai doesnt offer ABS standard on any except the XG, and not at all on the Accent.
Will ABS once again be standard on the Cobalt (and Pursuit in Canada)? That would be a great surprise. Its one of the few things the Cavalier used to have going for it. Any speculation on pricing.
again, Seasons Best.
~alpha
We drove an SE 5 speed without ABS. Actually we thought the shifter was very clunky so that ruled it out, but still we were not able to drive a car with the equipment we wanted (ABS + Manual Tranny).
-juice
Enjoy!
The Cobalt will have more power than all but the Mazda 3.
Its funny up here in Canada its all about cost, Cavalier and Sunfire combined sell more than the Civic I believe. Cobalt/Pursuit may sell less. Atleast they won't be an embarassment for GM like Cav/Sunfire.
Bret