I think the sedan would look a tad better with a blacked out B pillar like the coupe has...wonder why Chevy didn't do it?
Also, maybe the sedan would look nicer in darker colors...there's something about the rear door frame that doesn't look quite right and maybe a darker color will help hide this.
I like the two tone interior of the Cobalt...dark upper dash with a lighter color lower dash. Chevy should have done something similar with the Malibu...that monotonous all-gray interior has absolutely no pizzazz.
Would like to see a better shot of the brushed aluminum trim because it looks like it is also applied to the stereo/climate control area a la Mitsubishi Galant or Mazda 6. Maybe the plood is standard in the LT version of the sedan. I don't like it as much.
I dunno if its just me but I keep seeing Civic in the design theme, in the sedan moreso though. The front has those cat-eyeish headlamps and the rear end just seems like a slightly warped Civic rear-end. The taillights seem similar to the civic coupe's on the cobalt's sedan, except they are pulled farther around the back end to the side. Actually, the sedan's rear-end kinda reminds of a Kia Rio or something too. The coupe's taillights scream skyline to me. The interior is nice and now I think the civic probably has the least inspired interior out of the major compact players. Anyways, this new entry looks to be a giant leap from its predecessor and if Chevy does everything right, it might actually be mentioned in the same vein as a Corolla or Civic eventually.
I don't think it looks much like the Civic at the back, but the front does a little.
Current Civic is good, but not great IMO. I think the Corolla, Mazda 3 and Focus are better cars. I think part of the Civic's sales are based on it's reputation and history.
The headlights look like the ones on the Toyota Echo. The profile of the coupe does look a little like the Civic, but not in a bad way, plus it's more raked.
I guess nothing is original any more, everything has been tried before. On a whole the coupe was done nicely, IMO. The sedan only so-so.
Are there pics of the Pontiac Pursuit yet? Odd name btw, sounds something from the early 90s and 80s. But hell if the car is good I won't mind I never said the Cobalt was ugly and I'd much rather drive that than the Cavalier or even the Corolla(my cousin has a previous gen one, might be reliable but its so blah) Honestly I wonder if Honda is surprised to see such quality looking rivals popping up against their Civic, curious how the next-gen civic will be like. Right now I'd probably pick the Mazda3 as my choice out of this class.
Pursuit is to debut in Toronto in Feb. They aren't going to show it in the U.S. because it's a Canada only car. I guess you guys get the GTO and the Sunfire, we get the Pursuit. Personally, I'd rather see the GTO here.
:-(
Hopefully they change the interior a bit for the Pontiac.
Aw, I feel sorry for you guys then :-( Sorry that I'm not up to speed on the Cobalt/Pursuit. Just saw this thread a couple days ago and saw the pics and decided to comment. On another note, GTO is going to be cool
I bought a 2004 Cav because the pricing was terrific. I hope GM doesn't get arrogant and price themselves out of their "best advantage." Until they have a rep to match the technological changes, they need to be scrappy and compete, for example, with the very competitive Focus pricing.
For example, in 2000, 2001, and 2002, I really liked the Protege, but could never get pricing on one that made sense for me. Even VW was much more comptetive.
I know Chevy wants their compact cars to "make money" and not just be a "loss leader," but its critical that the pricing beat the Japanese competition. For example, the pricing on the Malibu is a little stiff, imho, when you take into account that in major metropolitan areas you can get Camry LE's, on advertised specials, in the $17k range, and Honda Accord LX's in the $18k range. I'd sure like to get a Malibu, but not if I can watch the ads, wait for a color I like, be the first in line and walk away with a Cam/cord at those kind of prices.
I almost don't believe what I am seeing in these pictures. This is what GM can do. It is about time somebody woke the heck up. I can't wait to see this car in person. This is certainly going to be on my short list of cars I would buy. I just wish the Ion could've been this good. Anybody know if the Cobalt will feature a folding front passenger seat? I really think that is a great feature.
I really like the new Cobalt, especially the Coupe form. I have only one pet peeve so far: why is the rear cupholders on the floor?? Couldn't they integrate it into the doors, make it pop out of the back of the center armrest, or put it in the rear center armrest??? But other than that, it looks to be VERY VERY promising!!!
People really need to stop putting the laughable and uncompetitive ION on the same level with the very competitive and well conceived Malibu. Styling is completely subjective, and no car should be judged on that alone...as long as it doesnt look too "out there"
GM talked the talked and actually walked the walked this time. They said it was all or nothing with the Cobalt and them being in the small car business so they designed an awesome new small car. It really does look great, specifically the coupe. Moreover, the interior really shines in the SS model. Very clean and tight looking.
I agree. The new Malibu is a very good car also, it just may not be in as an attractive case like this is. The ION is not a bad car, it's just not quite up to snuff in execution. Ride quality is excellent which is likely good news for the Cobalt.
Comparing the Cobalt with the Equinox, I see some similarity to the shape so perhaps there is a bit of a theme forming with some new Chevys.
The Malibu is a very good car- styling is subjective. The ION is a decent car- not good enough against the excellent Focus, Corolla and Civic. The Cobalt, may just be it for GM- the Focus, Corolla, Civic and ION killer.
If priced like a Corolla / Civic (and build like them) it should sell VERY well. There are many people who migrated to Japanese cars who would come back if there was good domestic product.
Cobalt might actually do both well. I do notice some details they didn't quite get right when I look at the enlargements, but it's mostly nit-picky stuff.
I can't be looking at the same pictures as the people who are lauding this vehicle. It's absolutely atrocious and is looks like the same old cavalier smashed together with an Ion. If fact if you look at the side view of the coupe on chevy's website, cover the front and back with your hands and you've got the same crappy cavalier.
The ION is not a bad car, it's a HORRIBLE car. It is one of the lowest rated vehicles on the market and even the korean names outrate it (referring to Consumer reports for data). At least this cobalt thing won't have those monstrously large panel gaps that are wide enough to slide a ham sandwhich through.
The interior pictures are the same corporate GM low quality materials with cheap plastics. The lighting is purposely dim so you can't tell how bad it really is. I hope that faux wood trim isn't in the coupe because that'd be crazy. Cheap faux would trim does not an upscale compact make!
Had they been smart, they would have brought over the Opel Astra... a much more sophisticated car that deserves to be called a premium compact.
Anyway, looks aside, it has to do the following:
Handle like a Focus Be as reliable as a Civic/Corolla Be priced from "first car buyer" to "want the bells and whistles."
Reliability is the only mark that no American compact has tickled since the very first Saturn... it's been downhill from there.
...but I may go to the LA Car show to be sure. I was hoping for more. But then, my tastes are skewed, I think the VW Golf, current edition, is duck soup, and I think the Focus ZX3 is "boldly imaginative." However, the Cobalt doesn't look any better than the current Cavalier (on the outside) in the pictures, to me.
...handle like the Focus (at least...and in ALL MODELS not just a "sport" model; agreed!)
and I would add...
Have more horsepower than the Focus. Which is "just possible" if Focus shoots itself in the foot by retrograding from the excellent, strong 2.3 liter they are just rolling out in 2004, to the 2.0 they are proposing for 2005 (with mid year, early introduction).
While you may not like the car, I don't think you will find almost anyone who will agree that it's "atrocious" and the materials look as good if not better inside as anything in this class of cars.
Actually, the car the Cobalt should be aiming for is the new Mazda3....it has definitely raised the bar in this segment. The Cobalt coupe still looks a little too "Cavalier", as does the sedan, although there are a few nice details. The Opel Astra definitely looks better, and in 5-door hatch form, would be a good match for the Mazda3 Sport.
As I mentioned in my post, things turned out better than I expected with the Cobalt, and it's certainly competitive for what is arguably a pretty mediocre class in general (maybe save the Mazda 3). But I agree that it's hardly a "revolutionary" effort.
I think it's important at the same time to recognize that this auto (and even the Ion) aren't *bad* cars. My family has owned bad cars. The Pinto was bad. The Yugo was bad. The Vega was bad.
The Ion and their GM ilk are fine. They go, stop, and turn well enough and keep their occupants relatively comfortable at a decent price. The problem is mostly that they aren't necessarily better than their competitors. In general, GM's (and most US makers) American models just aren't as refined as other makers and don't feel as special or as well realized. That's why they have to slap compensatory rebates on.
I'm sure the Cobalt will be a good car. The problem is that "better" is the mortal enemy of "good," especially when people are spending a vast amount of their salary to buy the product.
Folks, have you noticed the rear cupholders in teh cobalt? The are placed on the tunnel and definitely encroach on useful space. Why can't they have something more space conscious? To me, this really spoils the otherwise nice car. I wonder what the designers were thinking when they placed the cupholders there. I have seen teh same thing in the new Durango, and wonder if there is any connection (maybe GM hired the Durango design team)
the focus in 05 has the ST model which is like 148hp. new dash too. did not go far enough.
the 04 focus has of course the svt model but the PZEV upgrade for the other models (the 2.3) is smoother and more torquey but does not rev out to 7200 rpm either.
the 04 SVT should have had a high hp version of the PZEV.
now ford won't do focus svt anymore. and they stood still on styling.
cobalt comes in with a seemingly attractive package although i do think the plastics look a bit cheap in the photos but the design is pleasant enough so you can't rip it much. its not bad.
i would like to think that they can try to maintain their pricing but when the bu starts to get massively discounted this will erode the price structure of the cobalt.
plus, aside from being underpowered, the Aveo is a pretty nice looking small car.
chevy will get much more positive press from the cobalt than they got from malibu. just like with the equinox, they didn't give it rancid styling that would turn off the masses. they stayed in the middle and it should sell ok, even with the cheeseball plastic materials.
My only question to you is where is it in the Cobalt dash that you see plastics that look different from say the Civic or Corolla? I agree with you mostly on the ION, but I don't see it here. Having sat in a Corolla a few times recently I will tell you that it is surprisingly full of hard plastic. The Cobalt interior looks very good for this class IMO.
This so called "Cobalt"...I've seen pics. Nothing more that an Ion slash Cavalier. There is NO change in styling whatsoever. No revolution here. Big 3 pumping out boring styled cars. I'm not arguing interior and mechanics here, I'm arguing PASSION.
WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY THIS OVER A MAZDA 3.
I'D EVEN TAKE AN UNRELIABLE EURO THAT AT LEAST HAS SOME STYLING.
I've been waiting to see this car and all I can say is wow. It's really nicely styled and finished from what we can see in these first pictures. I'm not sure why some people are saying it's "ugly", but GM has styled this one nicely in the middle. Lets face it, there will always be people who don't like any car but I think over all it's very good in my eyes.
Weaponous ::: Mazda 3 design is certainly less down the middle than this Cobalt. I could totally see more people disliking the 3 than dislikeing the Cobalt. Mazda is taking more of chance because it wants to grab a niche. I think the Cobalt coupe is very sporty, more so than the Civic.
With this newfound competition in compact coupes, does anyone think Honda will release a hotter version of the Civic coupe?? They can do it, but will they...
The Cobalt and ION aren't bad cars. They turn, stop, go, and keep the people inside from blowing up when they're crashed (Pinto), don't roll-over easily (some Vegas) and don't fall apart on the test drive (Yugo) The ION is a decent car, but decent isn't good enough when you have excellent (Corolla, Focus, Mazda 3) Very Good (Civic) and even price leaders (Korean cars) that are OK to be decent because they carry a huge price advantage. The Cobalt, to me, looks like a good car, with a nice exterior (to me) and a good interior with parts that look seemingly well put together. The Coupe from the side, reminds me vaguely of a shrunken down GTO, especially in red. The interior looks great, better than even big cousin Malibu and certainly better than the ancient Impala and Monte Carlo, which each have 90's GM interiors. To conclude, the Cobalt should compete, without incentives or special financing, with the best in the compact class.
To a certain extent GM has a captive audience, at least in the midwest, and even here in California I am wary of Mazda dealers, who put "over msrp" stickers on their cars, bust your chops during negotiations, and generally aren't that competitive. Hey, if I need to be treated like that, I'll go back to VW...
When I got my Cav, they gave me a great price, a great trade in, great financing, and were down to earth throughout. If they hadn't been, there were about ten other Chevy dealers within an easy drive.
Honda has a great advantage in their wide dealer network, relatively decent service (still try to oversell "severe" service interval service schedules), and a great 20 year rep. But, having owned a 2003 LX Civic Coupe for 10,000 miles, I can assure they are resting on their laurels in terms of technology and features, and doling out modern "features" like 15 inch wheels instead of 14 inch wheels at a painfully slow rate. Plus, no matter what they reviewers say, there are a lot of disappointing "non-ergonomic" quirks in what is supposed to be a "refined, best in class" car.
So, the Cobalt may have a good future. It doesn't have to "look" the best so long as it's in the hunt. The horsepower sure blows away Civic, and the mileage isn't so bad either. Just so long as the "quality control" is there, that's all they really need.
Is it me or did they lift the rear-end directly from the Metro sedan? Otherwise, it looks infinite times better than the current ugly-as-sin cavalier and sunfire.
ian : I think just about everything has been done before, it's pretty hard to be completely original. Last time I saw original was in the CTS.
micweb : I think the Cobalt should be great and it looks like it will be. To get people out of their Civics and Corollas, GM has to prove it has the goods. ION is a perfect example of a car that has not sold very well because it was average.
play a lot in what car you buy. Where I live, there's 5 Honda dealers and one tried to overcharge me on an Odyssey, so I went to a small dealer (the over-charger was the largest in the area) and they were very down to earth, very accomodating. Only problem is, they were too far away to have my car serviced there every time so I use the downtown dealer, which is just as down to earth.
Sure they might put cash on the Cobalt right from the start. The Malibu had it and the Colorado already has $1500 on the hood. GM likes to overprice their vehicles and then lure customers in with rebates and low financing. Look at the Vibe/Matrix situation. The Vibe is always more expensive than a comparably equiped Matrix. However, when the incentives are factored in the playing field levels out.
So, I keep reading how Chevrolet says the Cobalt will be in the PREMIUM small car segment. What will this mean in regards to price? I don't see how they can go higher than the current Cavalier unless there will be crazy rebates. The Cavalier can get into the low 20's. I can see the Cobalt being priced slightly higher than the ION but not much - they are built on the same platform. My guess is the Cobalt will start just under 14k and go up to around 23k for the SS Supercharged. I would think the SS supercharged and the ION Red Line would be pretty close in price since they are essentially the same car with different skins. I guess we will find out in time. In my opinion this car needs to compete head on with the Civic (which it seems like it should beat) and the Mazda3.
How many dealers does Chevy have? That's one big advantage. I bet they have thousands. Some import brands only have 5-600.
I agree about their pricing strategy. They also raise prices several times per year, like 5-6 times actually. Those essentially offset rebate increases.
I think what they mean by premium is it will compete with the class leaders. I don't think prices will change much on Cobalt BUT there will not be any $4000 cash back type deals going forward (nor will they likely need them). I'm sure GM would make money on Cavaliers if they sold closer to list, but we all know they can't do that with an 8 year old car.
Most new (non Honda/Toyota) models have some incentives out of the gate. That's the auto world in the U.S. these days. Cobalt will likely have $500-1000 out of the gate. Up here, we don't get as much. GM still has no cash back on 2004 Malibu.
Comments
Also, maybe the sedan would look nicer in darker colors...there's something about the rear door frame that doesn't look quite right and maybe a darker color will help hide this.
I like the two tone interior of the Cobalt...dark upper dash with a lighter color lower dash. Chevy should have done something similar with the Malibu...that monotonous all-gray interior has absolutely no pizzazz.
Would like to see a better shot of the brushed aluminum trim because it looks like it is also applied to the stereo/climate control area a la Mitsubishi Galant or Mazda 6. Maybe the plood is standard in the LT version of the sedan. I don't like it as much.
Current Civic is good, but not great IMO. I think the Corolla, Mazda 3 and Focus are better cars. I think part of the Civic's sales are based on it's reputation and history.
I guess nothing is original any more, everything has been tried before. On a whole the coupe was done nicely, IMO. The sedan only so-so.
-juice
Most likely, the Pursuit will debut at the Toronto Auto Show in mid-February 2004.
:-(
Hopefully they change the interior a bit for the Pontiac.
For example, in 2000, 2001, and 2002, I really liked the Protege, but could never get pricing on one that made sense for me. Even VW was much more comptetive.
I know Chevy wants their compact cars to "make money" and not just be a "loss leader," but its critical that the pricing beat the Japanese competition. For example, the pricing on the Malibu is a little stiff, imho, when you take into account that in major metropolitan areas you can get Camry LE's, on advertised specials, in the $17k range, and Honda Accord LX's in the $18k range. I'd sure like to get a Malibu, but not if I can watch the ads, wait for a color I like, be the first in line and walk away with a Cam/cord at those kind of prices.
~alpha
Comparing the Cobalt with the Equinox, I see some similarity to the shape so perhaps there is a bit of a theme forming with some new Chevys.
Cobalt might actually do both well. I do notice some details they didn't quite get right when I look at the enlargements, but it's mostly nit-picky stuff.
-juice
The ION is not a bad car, it's a HORRIBLE car. It is one of the lowest rated vehicles on the market and even the korean names outrate it (referring to Consumer reports for data). At least this cobalt thing won't have those monstrously large panel gaps that are wide enough to slide a ham sandwhich through.
The interior pictures are the same corporate GM low quality materials with cheap plastics. The lighting is purposely dim so you can't tell how bad it really is. I hope that faux wood trim isn't in the coupe because that'd be crazy. Cheap faux would trim does not an upscale compact make!
Had they been smart, they would have brought over the Opel Astra... a much more sophisticated car that deserves to be called a premium compact.
Anyway, looks aside, it has to do the following:
Handle like a Focus
Be as reliable as a Civic/Corolla
Be priced from "first car buyer" to "want the bells and whistles."
Reliability is the only mark that no American compact has tickled since the very first Saturn... it's been downhill from there.
Compete with Corolla and Civic? Good luck.
and I would add...
Have more horsepower than the Focus. Which is "just possible" if Focus shoots itself in the foot by retrograding from the excellent, strong 2.3 liter they are just rolling out in 2004, to the 2.0 they are proposing for 2005 (with mid year, early introduction).
While you may not like the car, I don't think you will find almost anyone who will agree that it's "atrocious" and the materials look as good if not better inside as anything in this class of cars.
I think it's important at the same time to recognize that this auto (and even the Ion) aren't *bad* cars. My family has owned bad cars. The Pinto was bad. The Yugo was bad. The Vega was bad.
The Ion and their GM ilk are fine. They go, stop, and turn well enough and keep their occupants relatively comfortable at a decent price. The problem is mostly that they aren't necessarily better than their competitors. In general, GM's (and most US makers) American models just aren't as refined as other makers and don't feel as special or as well realized. That's why they have to slap compensatory rebates on.
I'm sure the Cobalt will be a good car. The problem is that "better" is the mortal enemy of "good," especially when people are spending a vast amount of their salary to buy the product.
Bret
the 04 focus has of course the svt model but the PZEV upgrade for the other models (the 2.3) is smoother and more torquey but does not rev out to 7200 rpm either.
the 04 SVT should have had a high hp version of the PZEV.
now ford won't do focus svt anymore. and they stood still on styling.
cobalt comes in with a seemingly attractive package although i do think the plastics look a bit cheap in the photos but the design is pleasant enough so you can't rip it much. its not bad.
i would like to think that they can try to maintain their pricing but when the bu starts to get massively discounted this will erode the price structure of the cobalt.
plus, aside from being underpowered, the Aveo is a pretty nice looking small car.
chevy will get much more positive press from the cobalt than they got from malibu. just like with the equinox, they didn't give it rancid styling that would turn off the masses. they stayed in the middle and it should sell ok, even with the cheeseball plastic materials.
WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY THIS OVER A MAZDA 3.
I'D EVEN TAKE AN UNRELIABLE EURO THAT AT LEAST HAS SOME STYLING.
Weaponous ::: Mazda 3 design is certainly less down the middle than this Cobalt. I could totally see more people disliking the 3 than dislikeing the Cobalt. Mazda is taking more of chance because it wants to grab a niche. I think the Cobalt coupe is very sporty, more so than the Civic.
The 170hp model will carry a good price advantage over the 3, though I do prefer the 5 door vs. the coupe configuration of the Cobalt.
Honda is conservative. They'll wait it out 4-5 years as usual. The Civic Si sells very poorly, remember, so why make the coupe sportier?
-juice
-juice
When I got my Cav, they gave me a great price, a great trade in, great financing, and were down to earth throughout. If they hadn't been, there were about ten other Chevy dealers within an easy drive.
Honda has a great advantage in their wide dealer network, relatively decent service (still try to oversell "severe" service interval service schedules), and a great 20 year rep. But, having owned a 2003 LX Civic Coupe for 10,000 miles, I can assure they are resting on their laurels in terms of technology and features, and doling out modern "features" like 15 inch wheels instead of 14 inch wheels at a painfully slow rate. Plus, no matter what they reviewers say, there are a lot of disappointing "non-ergonomic" quirks in what is supposed to be a "refined, best in class" car.
So, the Cobalt may have a good future. It doesn't have to "look" the best so long as it's in the hunt. The horsepower sure blows away Civic, and the mileage isn't so bad either. Just so long as the "quality control" is there, that's all they really need.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/cobalt4h_4- 50.jpg
micweb : I think the Cobalt should be great and it looks like it will be. To get people out of their Civics and Corollas, GM has to prove it has the goods. ION is a perfect example of a car that has not sold very well because it was average.
I guess we will find out in time. In my opinion this car needs to compete head on with the Civic (which it seems like it should beat) and the Mazda3.
I agree about their pricing strategy. They also raise prices several times per year, like 5-6 times actually. Those essentially offset rebate increases.
I bet $1000 back appears right away.
-juice
Most new (non Honda/Toyota) models have some incentives out of the gate. That's the auto world in the U.S. these days. Cobalt will likely have $500-1000 out of the gate. Up here, we don't get as much. GM still has no cash back on 2004 Malibu.