Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

luck11

Sly, tell you what....when you get it and plan on being in my neck of the burbs, let me know. My garage is insulated, drywalled, and with the heater on for 15-20 minutes, it gets nice and toasty. Although, as Christmas approaches, free time to do "my stuff" is a luxury in our house.

Cheers,
Jay.

ateixeira

ASC makes great moonroofs, ours are older models though and have been replaced with newer ones. We paid $300 for a pop-up that is 17"x30", and $900 for a 15"x30" power moonroof on a 2002 Legacy.

So there are aftermarket options for moonroofs, if you don't want leather. Subaru bunches them up with expensive packages.

-juice

stimulust

A trip into the snow this weekend was great. OBXT MT was great on the mountain roads but I did not get to play in the snow to test the AWD or the ABS. I did notice a stutter, however. Looking at the threads I found: #4753, #4745, and #4046 to be helpful. I concur with the above that stutter occurs between 2500-3000 rpm, but oddly I only notice this (or it is only strong enough) accelerating in 2nd. I will pay a little more attention to when, where, how, and under what conditions it happens.

Car has 448 miles after this weekend trip and I am still keeping it under 3K as prescribed (<3K 0-500, <4K 500-1000, per dealer suggestion), except for the rare occasion that it slips up to 4000-4500.

Curious if this is still an ECU issue that will resolve after 1500 mi? From the above mentioned threads, it sounds like it will be around after 1500 mi and is essentially a design feature of the ECU and its attempt to match power and fuel economy.

Updates from those that have a few more miles on theirs is appreciated.

thanks,
-jer

luck11

My OB XT MT is still stuttering at approx 1300 miles. I posted #4753 describing when my stuttering occurs. As an update, whether engine is cold or normal operating temp. makes no difference.

Cheers,
Jay.

ateixeira

I'll take a guess as this and say it's the throttle-by-wire. Subaru tuned it to get max fuel economy so it's constantly striving for the lowest possible throttle opening to achieve that.

The stutter might be the transition between the default "economy" mode and the performance mode you force it into with your right foot.

What I'd suggest is to try to roll into the throttle gradually, vs. flooring it. From those that have tried that, have you noticed a difference?

I bet most people don't even feel the transition.

-juice

c_hunter

Jer, the official break-in routine is to keep under 4000 rpm, not 3000, so you can up the ante a little and have some fun! Even 4000rpm is somewhat arbitrary (ie, 4200 will not hurt any more than 4000); the important thing is to go easy on the engine and not travel at a constant RPM for long distances.

The stuttering on my XT (5EAT) pretty much went away after I disconnected the battery when installing the sub, and it definitely mellowed out as I put more miles on the car. So I think it's an ECU mapping issue, and the ECU probably sorts itself out in some cases. Still, it will likely take an ECU reprogramming to fully fix the problem. This would not be uncommon for Subaru; the last Outback required a reflash in its first year, as well as the STi. I think Mazda has released 5-6 reflashes for the RX-8 at this point!

Craig

jmtreetop

I have a MT.

BTW, I have 3700 miles on my engine and it keeps getting smoother and smoother every day. I used to feel the stutter at low rpms but not any more.

ntk1

I have tried pretty much all variations of throttle position and load without much difference. I notice the following scenario will produce the most obvious effect -
find a medium uphill gradient, start off in 1st and change to second at relatively low speed, do not slip the clutch, apply a medium throttle position - this will have my car bouncing like a kangaroo all the way to 50 mph. This is obviously not a normal driving scenario but is a way to amplify the inherent fault. Does anybody know if a ECU re-flash is due soon? There seems to be a well coordinated wall of silence and denial from SOA. perhaps setting a few attack lawyers on them will speed things up a bit !!

Pete

saedave

I took delivery of an H-6 VDC wagon this afternoon; it now has about 100 miles. It replaced a 2002 Passat W8 and it is nice to not have any more German electrical and electronic components. The price was invoice less $300 which with the dealer holdback of $1000 gave the dealer a $700 profit. I added the Gold Warranty extension to six years for $900...after much discussion.

The slightly higher seating position with easier entry than the W8 is highly appreciated by me and my partner. We are looking forward to many years of good service without electrical gremlins. Incidentally, the VDC takes a local speed bump 30 mph faster than the W8 without a problem.

bruce3

I have an 05 Legacy GT and in California we are required to carry chains even with AWD in case you get stuck. However, I see the owners manual says you cannot use them on the GT with 17" wheels. Is there any solution for the odd time when we have a foot of snow on the roads in the Sierras? Could you mount them on the rear wheels? I have had situations where I needed chains + 4WD with previous vehicles. I already needed to use my truck to pull free my daughters Audi with similar tires + AWD and my wife's Saturn Vue.

aptosca

Where did you end up getting the VDC? They had one on the lot? Seems kinda rare around here in the bay area ...

Any options you didn't want or wanted but weren't ont he car?

$300 is better than I've been quoted. Did they have any other fees than tax & license?

Would having a car on a lot make them more willing to discount? Carlson down here wanted to charge a premium for not waiting for an order.

What do people think of asking someone to match a price after putting down a deposit for an order? Seems kinda sleezy but in this case, Sac is driveable. (I didn't expect them to match Fitz, since MD isn't.)

doug1

Subaru's tight wheel wells are annoying. The Outbacks from 2000 on have been incompatible with chains.

If you're going to spend much time in the snow, I'd highly recommend getting some good studless snow tires. In my experience with my old '96 Legacy, I think the tires made about as much difference as the AWD. And of course, the tires, unlike AWD, help you stop. If a Subaru with four Blizzaks can't make it through, it's probably too dangerous to drive! While I carried chains in my '96, I never put them on.

Just got a set of Blizzaks for my 2005 OB XT last week, but didn't run into any snow on the passes (WA state) over Thanksgiving. Might this coming weekend though.

Doug

c_hunter

Best thing you can do, period, is get winter tires.

You can probably use a set of Z-chains on the GT. Scroll back a couple weeks when we were talking about this. These were mainly an option when CHP checks cars for chains (so you can show you have them). Of course, chains are a low-speed temporary add-on device and won't help you all the time.

With winter tires on a Subaru, you will be darn near invincible in snow (within reasonable/safe limits).

Craig

c_hunter

Congrats on the new car David!

Craig

doug1

Unfortunately, with the GTs and XTs, it's only an aura of environmental conscience, I'm afraid. I've been feeling rather guilty about the lousy fuel economy of my new XT. The emissions are a lot worse than with the base 2.5L too. I believe Tier 2 Bin 8 vs. Tier 2 Bin 5.

I wish Subaru would offer an engine like Audi/VW's new 200hp FSI turbo. Likely will get 30mpg in the 2006 A4 Quattro, and maybe more in the GTI.

Doug

rsorganize

Congratulations on the VDC! Seems like a really great deal. Bought mine - Silver - in June for +300 and the Gold with $0 deductible for $1195.

Am at 14,000 mi. Great car! Not a problem, so far. (Except the drivers seat, which I dealt with by buying a Tempurpedic seat cushion.) You should really enjoy the driving experience. Have fun!

Peace.

hilbert

Craig:

Didn't see your name in Meet the Members so wasn't sure whether you check it regularly. I teach Economics and I like Math a lot. Its great, in addition to Subie Qs now I can ask you Math Qs too.

I am little sad today. I think my OBXT was not as smooth today as it has been until now. I think I could hear the engine and wind noise much more today. It seemed to me that engine was working harder today than everyday. I checked to see and found that all windows were closed tight. Perhaps its only a feeling but does not seem like that. Unfortunately, I do not have the air pressure guage yet. If one just looks at tires (and presses it with hands) it seems the air pressure is fine. I was thinking whether the little increased noise could be because one tire has deflated a little and the AWD mechanism is working too hard thinking of it as a slip. Do you think I am just paranoid. Any suggestions. The wagon has just 215 miles on it.

c_hunter

Definitely pick up a tire gauge -- they are only a few bucks at any auto parts store or WalMart. You're probably just being paranoid but it is important to check the tires every couple weeks, especially this time of year when there are lots of temperature variations.

Are you sure the parking brake was released? :-)

I washed my XT yesterday and took off the roof racks. Driving to work today I noticed *more* wind noise than normal! So either the racks reduce noise, they create a different noise that drowns out the wind noise, or a clean car is noisier! (all are in the realm of possibility BTW).

CRaig

hilbert

I checked the parking brake. It was released. Apart from the Wind noise the engine did not feel as smooth either. It felt like the base 2.5 (without turbo. Hopefully things will be better tomorrow and perhaps I was just tired.

Thanks.

littlebridges

Hi all - We're digging our 2 week old Outback XT Limited and this forum seems like a great resource for new and experienced owners!

One startling difference from our past vehicles is the lack of window tint on the rear sides, hatch, and sunroof. Has anyone had any luck with tinting this glass and are you willing to share your experiences?

Thanks!

jmtreetop

I tinted my windows and had good luck with them. I used a local window tint shop that uses 3m film with lifetime warranty. I did not tint the sunroof. Paid $200 something for all windows. http://mypages.championbroadband.com/mvp/~jmorris/DSC02557.JPG

http://mypages.championbroadband.com/mvp/~jmorris/DSC02556.JPG

michael2

can anyone recommend a good glass cleaner,that won't leave streaks or a hazy film on the windshield. I've tried several, to no avail.

hilbert

jmtreetop your OBXT looks beautiful. Congrats!

sduford

Yes it looks great! Champagne is the best color

khallock

I guess I am a little late to chime in on the snow tire question I started, but I live in Northern Vermont (like 30 minutes from Canada) so there's no way I am going without snow tires! I live out in the sticks and sometimes my dirt road doesnt get plowed. I figure with AWD + snows I will be all set.

luck11

I used Solar Guard metallic film 22% all around, but nothing on the sunroof. Key is to ensure it is metallic based so it does not fade to an undesirable purplish tinge after a couple of years. You'll pay more, but it's worth it.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2627330093

Cheers,
Jay

saedave

Bought the VDC in Highland Park, IL. It was on the lot and they were dealing on everything to finish the month. The options on the car were what I wanted except for lack of the side net in the cargo area which I may purchase later.

There were no ersatz fees.

Matching a price is not relevant for a VDC since most dealers here do not stock them. I searched dealer inventories on the web to find mine. My closest dealer stated that they don't "get any" VDCs. There may be a reluctance by the dealers' financial people to put a Subaru of that price in inventory. The dealer who had it in stock is also the largest seller of VW Phaetons in the U.S. ($70-100,000 cars). That made them the best place to trade my Passat W8 wagon.

needanewcar2

My wife has taken so long selecting her car ( ) That there are more choices everyday.

I am personally a fan of Hybrids. Any news of a Subaru Hybrid? Would any of you select a car based on Hybrid technology alone? Are any of you afraid of Hybrids?

Craig, are able to e-mail me at the adress on my profile?

Thanks all

Lewis

c_hunter

I just tried sending you an e-mail, see if it made it.

I like the idea of hybrids, but have no burning desire to get one just yet. In 4-5 years, if the technology is fully accepted and the industry has ramped up to regular production level (meaning no waiting lists) I would definitely consider it. For now I am happy with 19-25 mpg in my OB XT.

Craig

c_hunter

I agree that it should be a high quality metallic tint, but make sure it won't interfere with the in-glass radio antenna! More than one person has installed metallic tint only to find that radio reception was seriously degraded. A good tint installer will know what to recommend.

I also find it surprising that the 05 Outbacks do not have tinted windows from the factory -- Subaru made a big deal out of it when trying to justify the "truck" classification. They said customers were demanding things like tinted windows and higher ground clearance (among others) and the truck classification would allow them to deliver those features. Then the Outbacks show up and there is no tint! No tint!

Apparently it can be installed at the port (an aftermarket film) but it's not an official option listed on the website. In addition, it's not the true smoked-glass type of tint you'd expect from the factory (which is arguably the best way to go). So I am confused about the whole tint situation. I bet it will show up in the 06 models, maybe by then they will have all the car/truck issues fully worked out!

Craig

ateixeira

I wish Subaru offered factory tint.

Why does the Baja get it, but not the Outback? In fact, they promised tint when they announed the Outback would be certified as a truck!

I hope the B9X has tint.

saedave: congrats, all Daves should own a Subaru! :-)

$900 for the Subaru Gold sounds good. You'll love it, free roadside assistance the entire time. We cancelled our AAA and saved more than $70 per year!

Doug: I agree that Subaru should offer an engine between the base models and the 250hp turbo. Perhaps add AVCS and Direct Injection to the base engine, or put the Forester XT's 210hp engine in there but gear it for fuel economy.

-juice

littlebridges

Thanks for the suggestions and pictures, everyone! Craig, a very good point about the in glass antenna. I have already noticed that the Outback reception isn't as good as that in my Touareg. I haven't looked to see if the Subaru has a diversity setup as does the Touareg. But that's another topic.

Any particular reason folks have stayed away from tinting the sunroof. I have never had auto glass tinted before so pardon what might be a stupid question...

Thanks!

ateixeira

With a sun shade I bet most people just don't see it as necessary. But I don't think there is a specific reason to avoid tinting it.

-juice

tickman

Stopped at a local oil change emporium for a 1000 mile change (you know, to get the chunks of metal from manufacturing out) (I also don't mean to open the Pandora's Box of when to change the oil here). I'm out in the boonies on a trip, and the closest Subaru dealer is an hour away. The Jiffy Lube said they had no filter for my 2005 OBXT, and they even called their filter supplier (Fram?) and were told there were no aftermarket filters available. I know this is not correct. Based on other discussions I've read, I don't want a Fram filter anyway.

Even at home, my dealer is about a 45 minute drive, and they won't specify how long an oil change takes.

I also asked them (Jiffy Lube) to put a new crush washer on the drain plug, and I thought I had stopped speaking English. They had never heard of such a thing. I understand the OEM filter comes with a fresh washer.

In the end, I didn't get an oil change, but they washed the windows and checked the tires for free. Guess I'll make an appointment at my dealer for when I get home.

samiam_68

Glass Plus.

ateixeira

They never even heard of a crush washer?

That says a lot about Jiffy Lube.

-juice

robr2

Why does the Baja get it, but not the Outback? In fact, they promised tint when they announed the Outback would be certified as a truck!

Psst - maybe they still don't anybody to know it's really a truck.

Actually I brought this up when the Outback hit the dealers - all talk about tint and then it's not there.

As for factory tint, I believe that most aftermarkt tint does a better job of UV protection - that's what does the damage to the interior and to you. That includes the tint on the sunroof.

Glass Cleaner - ClearVue or anything without amonia.

ateixeira

I have it, but film is film and it has its limitations. You have to clean it a certain way else it'll peel.

-juice

sduford

I don't know if we're getting different cars up here in Canada but my OBXT has tinted windows and they are listed as standard on all OB models in the brochure.

Sly

ateixeira

Tinted maybe, but how much? They are very light compared to what you get in the Baja.

Or do you get different levels of tint than we do?

-juice

sduford

Yes it looks like a light green tint, standard UV protection. I think that's just fine like that.

And I don't care what Subaru says, the Outback has nothing in common with a truck except for the groung clearance!

Sly

katway

Congrats! We've had our VDC for a couple months now and it's an awesome vehicle. After we broke in the engine with 1,000 miles, we really let it fly and it is amazingly smooth. It has presented no problems and is the best combination of agility, power, refinement, and ruggedness we have ever had in a car.

Also, we have been presently surprised to find out that little things like car mats, etc. are pleasantly inexpensive for the Subaru. We (regrettably) still own a Volvo V70R that just cost me $3700 in repair bills (no accidents, etc... just stuff failing on its own). I can't wait to rid myself of the money pit Volvo V70R and go for the new Subaru B-9X SUV when it hits the streets. If the B-9X performs anything like the Outback 3.0R VDC, Subaru will have another winner.

ateixeira

I'm just disappointed because Subaru promised tint, and then didn't deliver. Like I said, they went as far as to use it as an excuse for the Outback having to be certified as a truck.

I just hate empty promises. But I like tint. :-)

-juice

rochcom

Dilute vinegar half and half with water. It doesn't smell so nice, but does get off grease and road film without leaving a residue. It is best to put a towel or rag at the botom of the window to keep any spills from going into the window channels.

saedave

If you think the V70R is expensive to repair, consider the $1000+ labor to change an O2 sensor on the W8 Passat if it is out of warranty. Or $129/pair wiper blades (only available at the dealer). My W8 was a nice car, but not that nice.

qbrozen

guess it depends on your perspective. The total repairs I have put into my Volvo (now at 97K miles) have not come to being anywhere near as tough as just one repair on our Forester that involved changing the leaking cam seal and timing belt. If you don't let the dealer rape you, many of these "expensive to fix" cars are no worse than most economy cars.

ateixeira

OK, but you just might be the exception that proves the rule.

There's not a lot of Subaru Crew members that have forked out thousands in repairs on their Subies. And most own several.

Our family has owned 6 and not one has required any major repairs out of warranty.

-juice

sduford

They are forecasting 6" of snow here starting around midnight, and a bit more for the next 3 days.

I just might have to go out early tomorrow morning and take my X-Ice equipped OBXT through its paces!!!

Sly

michael2

Anyone use this product, and if so does it work as advertised.

Turtle Wax Clear Vue doesn't, so I'm on the home made cleaner trail, vinegar and water, but would like to try one more commercial product before that. There has to something that will clean grease and film off a windshield.

infrasub

I use Stoners and it has worked well for me. Its in a airosol can, get it at Auto Zone. I dont know about grease but it has done well for the normal road film.

Dave