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Comments
By the way, these seem to be a new type of wipe -- I had tried a different type of window wipe product many years ago and those did not work well.
Craig
As for the wiping instrument, I've always used B&W newspaper. No streaks and you were probably going to throw it away anyway. Just don't use it on plastic.
BTW, I still have not changed to my Artic Alpins so this morning I was toughing it out on my stock RE92s, and frankly, they leave little to be desired in slush and snow.
...AND, hate to raise the whole tire debate again, but I am beginning to agree that these tires are sub-par. Last night I had to brake rather hard (not hard enough to engage anti-lock)in order to stop at a red light and I heard my tires skid for a split second on dry pavement(further proof was the burnt rubber smell that infiltrated the cabin shortly thereafter). Needless to say I was not impressed.
That said, I love the feeling of taking off from a stop light with AWD and leaving the rest of the pack "in the slush" as their tires spin out of control!
<grinning ear to ear>
BTW Sly, let us know how the X-Ice tires perform...I may need to replace my Alpins next year and have been eying the X-Ice as a possible substitute. You pick them up at Costco?
Cheers,
Jay.
For touch ups any window cleaner, but only on the outside as I have tint film inside.
Inside I just use a damp cloth and wipe from the center outward, so as not to catch the film and peel it.
-juice
This morning I went to the village for some emergency supplies, and our dirt road hadn't been plowed yet. There was a good 8" of heavy wet snow on the ground. There was a Chevy Tahoe stuck half-way up our steep, long, curvy hill. I stopped in the middle to offer help, but he said he had a tow truck coming, and that I was crazy to stop half-way up the hill like that. I just smiled and hit the gas, watching him in my rear-view mirror with his mouth wide open as I climbed up with just a little wheel spin
When I came back 20 mintues later, both the tow truck and the attached Tahoe were in the ditch, having moved about 10 feet sideways, zero feet up the hill. The tow truck attempted to put chains on, and then broke one of them. I think they are still up there...
The X-Ice worked great. They do not feel as if they provide quite as much grip as the Blizzaks I had on my Highlander, but that may be due to the much higher power of the Outback. It is easy to break traction. I loved the balance though, as I was able to oversteer into the curves at will.
Since the X-Ice is much quieter and handles better than the Blizzaks on dry pavement, I think I made a good choice by buying them.
I bought them at Canadian Tire, Costco didn't have any 17" in stock. Candian Tire had exactly one set per store, and they had a good sale on them.
I need to go check on the tow truck, perhaps I can pull him up the hill
Sly.
I am patiently awaiting a complete report on your snow experience! It will be interesting.
"Whether to by the Blizzaks or not to buy the Blizzaks, that is the question."
My friend still wants me to buy his set of 1 season-old Actic Alpins, and while the price is right ($150 negotiable), they're size 215/45-R17, so my speedo will be 'off' by about 5MPH as I see it. Does anyone see anything "too" wrong with doing this for a few months?
Those Cooper ST2's sure look like a good deal, but I'm still trying to save-up for my Gold Extended Warranty
Any 'words of guidance' (or perhaps feedback on the Artic Alpin) to help push me off the fence would be much appreciated. And I promise this'll be the last time I bring it up
TIA,
Tim G.
'05 OBXTL-5MT - 5k and counting!
http://home.earthlink.net/~timo1745/_images/subie_images/subie_an- d_shelby_small.jpg
ps: Congrats to all the new owners!
what is a good price for a gold subaru extended warranty paln for 7 years and 100,000 miles with a zero deductable on a wrx wagon?
Thanks
Khyle
We just saw a quote of $900 but that was 6 years.
Turbos carry a surcharge, so I'd expect something in the $1200 range.
-juice
If you misdjudge a curve on a dark and wet night, or if you need to make an emergency stop, especially on wet pavement, that is where the RE-92 will fail you. A better tire could easily save your car, or even your life, in such a situation.
Given their thread pattern and hard compound, the RE-92 cannot be anything but mediocre on snow. With your AWD, you might not get stuck, but again, it is in an emergency situation, of if you get caught by bad weather that they will bite you.
If safety is important to you, get some good winter tires, and get some better summer tires too. Tires are the single most important safety factor on your car, you should not compromise on them. They are more important then AWD, ABS, and STC combined. And the best way to survive an accident is to not get into one in the first place.
This reminds me, nobody here seems to make the distinction between snow tires and winter tires, but there is a big one. Snow tires generally have agressive thread blocks that can bite in the snow, but they do not have ice compounds with micro-sipes. A true winter tire has such compound technology and will provide much better traction on icy surfaces then a regular snow tire will.
Sly
Excellent points on tires.
Ice tires have several disadvantages: they are generally more expensive, and because of the soft rubber compound they usually have less thread life and feel more spongy in terms of handling. They also tend to wear really fast if driven on hot pavement.
Because of that, snow tires with studs can be a cost effective alternative. However, that usually comes at the price of handling and noise comfort, and many states/provinces outlaw studs because of the damage they inflict on roads.
For example, the Blizzak WS-50 and the Michelin X-Ice are "ice" tires. They provide very good grip on icy surfaces and in extreme cold weather. The Tire Rack actually did a test where they found the Blizzak WS-50 to perform better than a cheap snow tire with studs, and my personnal experience agrees with that.
The Dunlop Winter Sport M3 is a "snow" tire. It works very well on snowy roads and does reasonably well on ice and stays soft except in the most extreme cold weather. However, it will provide you with sportier handling on dry pavement, and should also have a longer thread life.
The following article provides a very good explanation:
www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_011101.htm
Sly
Thanks!
Joe
So much on snow tires- I had em in Boston- great to have as long as you still drive carefully! They don't make you invincible. That being said, is there something wrong with us Subie owners that we want to try our cars out in weather other people don't even want to walk in? LOL! I'll have to go talk with my clinic's psychologist. ;-)
Cleaning windows- if you have tint you need to stay away from ammonia based cleaners. I use this alcohol based stuff called 'sprayaway' I picked up at my local Costco. Works ok, but I find I need to wipe my windows twice to get them really clean!
Speaking of tint, someone was asking about that too. I have 35% Madico Onyx (Metallic) all around. Lifetime warranty- tons of heat rejection, and not super dark (but dark enough to hide!) but able to see out without problems at night. Oh yeah, no radio problems either.
Just try to find someone good and don't necesarilly go with whoever is cheapest. You don't want them screwing up the inside of your car!
I think I'm caught up! ;-)
tom
Odd. I hope my car doesn't do other things while I'm not there! ;-)
tom
You should be able to adjust the sensitivity of the shock sensor.
If you do not have a shock sensor, then I must admit that I am stumped.
Cheers,
Jay
CRaig
I am experienceing ski fever here. The closest big mountain, Snowshoe WV opens Friday, but it won't be worth skiing there for a couple more weeks....
Craig
tom
My Klasse kit has arrived (with UPS who has attempted it twice but is going to deliver it today). I am all getting set for the cleaning.
Craig, can you please tell me again which Dawn you use. They come in different colors and fragrances. Which one do you use? Just want to make sure I use the tried and tested and the harmless one.
Also, can you again explain how much dawn to use. I understand you said 1/4 or quarter squirt. I do not understand what that means. Do you squirt 1/4 of the bottle (if yes what size is the bottle), or do you mean a squirt which is the size of a quarter.
Thanks very much. I will need to find your and Kens messages to go over the detailed explanation of the process.
Hilbert
The ranch where my friends live has some unploughed roads that I went playing on. As you can see, the snow was tire-depth and the Outback handled it really well even without snow tires - and the roads are steep in places.
Several FWD cars and even my friend's 2WD pickup with studded tires had trouble even getting up the ploughed parts.
Tim.
Hilbert: I use the plain blue stuff, but it probably doesn't matter. I would avoid any soap with "lemon" in it -- I know it can damage metal tableware, so it can't be good for a car either!
Craig
I picked them up from tirerack.com
First time I used the site, the experience was great. They placed the order in the AM and they arrived on my door the next afternoon (I live about 100 miles from the warehouse).
I found this forum through a friend. After going through some 600 hundred messages I am leaning toward purchasing a Legacy wagon, either the GT or the basic 2.5i
The Plain GT is tempting but complaints about Auto Climate Control got me concerned. Another issue is that I have always doubted about Turbo charge, so for all your turbo owners, have you ever concerned at all about turbo engines? any issue so far?
For 2.5I owners, why you choose 2.5i over gt? simply budget reasons?
Sorry for so many question and any advice will be appreciated.
BOW.
CRaig
Subaru has been turbocharging engines for years and I have never heard of major problems with them.
One nice thing about the 2.5i is the gas mileage!
Craig
Also, the other day I was driving with both the fan and auto-control off. It was cold outside but I was quite comfortable in the car. I put my hand close to the vent and I could feel warm air coming in. I had to put my hand close to the vent to feel the air (what I am trying to say is that the force was very low, and there was no sound of a fan). Is that normal and is it some intelligent system in Subaru which is doing that.
The ACC is very poorly designed and doesn't work well at all in cold climates. Even in full manual mode as Craig suggest, it still very much gets in your way, instead of making your life easier as it should. I have to constantly fiddle with the temperature setting (both of them), and I have to constantly turn the A/C off as the system turns it on for no good reason at all. The system was obviously designed for warm and/or humid climates.
If I had to do it over again, I would still buy my OBXT. However, if I was given the choice between this stupid ACC or a simple 3-button manual system, I would most definitely pick the manual. I had high expectations for the ACC, and I've been very disappointed.
Having said that, I still enjoy the car tremeendously and have learned to live with the many deficiencies of the ACC. Just don't expect it to automatically maintain a set temperature for you if you buy it, and you probably wont be nearly as upset as I am.
The turbo is a real blast by the way. I would recommend you make a deal with your dealer to replace the Bridgestone RE-92 tires with something better before you take delivery. I think they are dangerous, but just like for ACC, some people think they are just fine! All depends on your expectations I guess.
Good luck with your purchase!
Sly
Also, if it maintains 72 for you, then I'm guessing the outside air temp never got very cold yet, otherwise it would have reached 80+ inside before finally settling down. It is a simple design flaw of the temperature sensor. A flaw that is well documented and someone even came up with a hack to fix it: www.geocities.com/samiam_68/SubaruCCS/SSC_Fix.htm
But hey, if it works for you that's great. It just works better in some climate then others, and not eveyone have the same expectations of it. It's still a flawed and poorly designed ACC, no matter how you slice it.
Sly
The main difference is price and performance.
The GT is a powerful car, maybe too powerful. It will handle better, brake better, (once you replace the tires) and blow the doors off most cars you see. It also costs a few thousand more, uses premium unleaded, and gets worse gas mileage. I would also strongly suggest synthetic oil. All extra costs of ownership. But if you want a great AWD performance wagon, you don't have a lot of choices, and the GT is arguably the fastest out there. Now whether you need it or not, that's up to you. ;-)
I wouldn't worry a whole lot about the Turbo. In the old days the Turbos used to burn out, but things have improved a lot. I'm sure it will last as long as the engine does. But if you've never driven a turbo, you're definitely going to want to try it. Some people don't like the sudden surge of power- but some find it intoxicating. ;-)
I love my GT Ltd- no regrets even after 6 months (and I get bored of cars quickly!). It's comfortable to drive daily, a blast to drive fast when you want (watch out for tickets though), and well put together and designed. And of course, it has AWD, which will get you through just about anything.
I agree with Sly though, try to get the dealer to swap tires at the outset. The stock Bridgestone RE-92As are awful. I replaced mine (not totally by choice) with Toyo Proxes 4s which are much better in terms of handling and especially braking, and even quieter and better riding to boot!
Good luck. I think the 2.5i is a great car too- if you don't need the extra performance it's more than adequate.
tom
Dave
But when the outside temperature is well below freezing, it makes absolutely no sense at all. This is an example of why I think the system is poorly designed. It should be smart enough not to turn the A/C on when the outside temperature goes below freezing.
I have noticed that the colder the outside temperature, the more the ACC will overshoot it's set temperature. Probably because the temperature probe is very cold to start with. And even if I am wearing warm clothes, I still want it to go to about 70, because I prefer to open my coat and remove my gloves once the car is warmed up, I don't like driving all bundled up.
Sorry if your last 5 cars had poor ACC systems, but it wasn't the case for me. My Volvo was pretty much set and forget. The only time I had to touch it was to initiate defrost mode. This actually proves my point: those who are happy with this ACC are either not in a cold climate or they have low expectations.
There are lots of people complaining about it on this and other forums. I was talking to my dealer just last week and he said lots of people are complaining about the system not maintaining the set temperature. They also have to take a lot of time explaining to people how to operate it either because they are totally confused or they feel they are the reason it is not working well. Anybody who works in design will tell you these facts are sure signs of a poor design. The goal of an ACC is to make life easier, and this system doesn't do that, at least not in cold weather. What's the point in having an "auto" system that you must constantly fiddle with? Or one that people say "works fine if you set it to manual"?
So for those who are happy with it, I say good for you! But please don't make excuses for Subaru: this is still a brain dead and very poorly designed system.
Sly
I just started my research on paper and have not make any test drive yet. But everyone's help here makes me leaned toward subaru more, hope I can become a formal member of the gang here soon.
I will do the test drive this weekend and probably make my purchase in 1-2 weeks.
My old car was a toyota corolla which provide excellent service to me but I am bored to death driving it. Excellent made car, just boring.
Coming off a corolla, turbo maybe a overkill for me.
I will report my choice after the test drive.
Thanks all again.
Actually the system is smart enough to do this. I think it disables AC below 40F or so, it's just not typical "user-level" information. In reality, the AC system cycles on/off in any weather -- it has a clutch and can seamlessly fade in and out of operation. It just doesn't trigger the "AC" indicator every time it cycles on/off. This is fairly standard behavior. You, the user, have to specifically turn AC off in order to assume full control over the system, otherwise it will cycle on/off as needed pending the internal and external temperatures.
On my wife's Acura, AC is also "always on" (and it cycles). However, there is no "AC" indicator, so you might never know it's running (would that annoy some people less?? more??). In her car, if you push the AC button, it turns on an "AC off" indicator. So it's basically the opposite of Subaru. And actually, her car only displays the user-selected temperature unless you start messing with the mode, fan speed etc. You you don't ever really know what's going on behinds the scenes. The Subaru and Acura systems function the same otherwise. Acura just chose the minimal no-info approach, while Subaru shows all the modes and settings as they change.
I live in a milder area, but routinely spend time skiing in the mountains where -40F to -10F overnight temperatures and 0F-20F day temps are routine. I still don't have a problem with Subaru ACC in those conditions. In fact I always thought it was nice that I could start my car in the morning, and let ACC run like a tornado to warm up the car. When I go out 10-15 minutes later the ACC automatically throttled back to a very mild setting to maintain the temperature I set.
Finally, and this is a big one, I would suggest that ACC temperatures are not to be treated as absolute!!! No way that 72F in the car is the same as 72F in my house or 72F in my office. For one thing, it depends on how and where the thermostat senses and registers the temperature. If I set our house thermostat (1st floor) to 72F, it will invariably end up being 82F upstairs. We have to make other adjustments in order to make the whole house comfortable. Same goes for my car -- if I set it at 72F and find that it's getting too hot, I dial it back a degree or two. Usually the fan speed goes down and the system maintains the new set temperature. My point is, if you think it's too hot, then turn it down a notch! In my experience this works very well.
Based on your description, you never would have reached the set temp anyway, to find out if it was to your liking! So how can you even say that the absolute numbers are inline with your expectations??
Craig
However, I have verified that if I hit the "Defog" button, or if I switch the mode to have air come up to the windshield, it does in fact turn the A/C ON even if the outdoor temperature is below freezing.
I do love the feature where the Auto mode waits until the engine warms up and then goes full blast to heat the car. That is pretty much the only useful feature of the system and the only time I leave it in auto. One I approach the desired temperature, I switch to semi-auto by switching the mode to half-floor and half-windshield, turn the A/C off, and somehow the temperature doesn'
t overshoot nearly as much as it does in AUTO.
I'm not complaining about the ACC being off by a few degrees, that I could live with. But I have verified that if I set it to say 72, it will actually go as high as 85 before throttling down and then sometimes overshooting the other way before finally settling at or near 72. The colder the car is when I start, the worst this problem is.
If you have a 10 deg difference between two floors in your house then you have a very poorly balanced heating system. It should never be more than a couple of degrees for a properly designed central air system, with properly positioned thermostat(s),in a properly insulated house. But nonetheless, that is very different then a car environement where the cabin is quite small and the temperature sensor is right at knee level. There is no reason why the top of the car should be at a significantly higher temperature, especially when the heat is coming out at floor level and rising past the sensor.
Anyway, enough of that. I know it is a poorly designed system and there are many many people who agree with that statement. The fact that some people are OK with it is irrelevant to me.
I still think new buyers should at elast know what they are getting into. I guess that is what bugs me the most. I was sold a car with an ACC and I paid for and expected an ACC that works as I had in my two previous cars. But what I got instead is a hacked-together el-cheapo climate system that is anything but AUTO. A good old 3 button system would be MUCH better than this.
I rest my case!
Sly
P.S. The climate control works great here in the Pacific NW.