Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

needanewcar2

Sly, it sounds like you miss your Highlander!

 

Are you still happy with your Outback decision?

sduford

Yes I'm still happy. I have lot's of small little gripes. Subaru sure could pay more attention to details. But the positives outweight the negatives.

 

I still have a big smile every time I drive it. It has been a real blast to drive in the snow we got this week.

 

I got up the hill when every one else was waiting at the bottom for the sander to come by.

 

Sly

needanewcar2

Great! Keep on enjoying it!!

natethomas

I have a 05 OB XT manual and have yet to experience the stuttering that has been mentioned in this forum. My car is about to hit 2000 miles and I am enjoying ever second that I spend in it. In regards to the ECU, Cobb is a good company to look at. They are actually producing a device called the accessport that is a portable ECU reflasher. There is no down time as they send you the device that can reflash your ECU as many times as you want. They have already marketed accessports for the Forester XT, WRX and STI. The Forester XT has a 20-25 HP gain as well as a smoother power band, and the new one is projected to have similar results. It costs $645 and is available for the LGT and the OBXT starting tomorrow at cobbtuning.com. Your dealership will never know that your car is more powerful because you can simply switch the ECU back to stock before having your car serviced.

-Nate

lumbar

Subaru describes the AWD system in the 2.5i auto as "active" (as opposed to continuous (50-50), VTD (45-55) and VDC in other models) but, like the VDC system, I haven't seen any documentation that gives a front/rear split, such as 90/10 and I always wondered why that was the case. As for a serious bias to the front wheels, my impression is that, during acceleration for example, power is shifted more to the rear wheels, where it would be more desirable.

tsy

Well, let's see, I've owned each car you are considering. Some people have already corrected you on the AWD. So I'll address some other thoughts.

 

AWD is way better than VSC, any day. I've never had VSC do anything other than get in the way. It usually kicks in after I've made whatever correction is needed. But useful if you tend to do really stupid things while driving.

 

The Camry is bigger, and has a nice smooth V6. But very boring and handling is equivalent to a minivan. Maybe not as good as some minivans. ;-)

But certainly reliable and comfortable transportation.

 

The Passat has a nice 1.8T engine, is fun to drive (but actually not that fast- perhaps minimally faster than the OB 2.5i) and IIRC you need to get the V6 to get AWD. It is not more comfortable, not more roomy, and definitely has some reliability problems. Add to the fact it's being replaced next year and it becomes less appealing. But once again a nice car, I enjoyed it (for the one year I kept it).

 

With Subaru's aggressive pricing you might be able to get an OB XT for about the same as the other cars you are comparing to for not a whole lot more. The XT is a much more fun car to drive. It will absolutely blow the Camry and VW away (you'll be able to keep up with a Porsche Boxster! In a straight line, of course)

 

Good luck. Drive them all, they're all nice cars. But my Subie's been the nicest of the three!

 

tom

tsy

I emailed SOA about chains and this is what they emailed back:

 

Thank you for your inquiry.

 

You cannot use standard tire chains on your vehicle because of the lack of

clearance in the wheel wells. I always recommend that owners contact the State

Police to discuss the mandatory use of tire chains. The State Police enforce

tire chain usage and should be able to provide some guidelines for their

required use.

 

If you use the tire chains detailed below, you would need to install them on the

front wheels only. As also detailed below, we do not endorse this product, but

have not heard any complaints from owners who have used them.

 

We have been made aware of a tire chain (traction device) company's claim that

its devices are suitable for the Subaru Outback and Subaru GT models. The

company is:

 

Security Chain Company (SCC)

A Division of Burns Brothers, Inc.

Portland, OR

 

The company's Internet address is: scc-chain.com. This Internet site gives local

retail sources for the products. The model recommended by SCC for Subaru is SHUR

GRIP Z. There are different sizes based on tire size.

 

SUBARU OF AMERICA cannot endorse these or any other traction devices. However,

we can inform any owners who request information on traction devices of this

company's claim that its products are available and suitable for Subaru

vehicles. Customers must take the initiative and responsibility for securing the

products and satisfying themselves that it is safe to use them on their

vehicles.

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us, and I hope that this information is

helpful in your decision-making.

 

Best wishes!

 

(name deleted)

Subaru of America, Inc.

 

---------------------------------

Nice return email.

Hope this helps!

 

tom

tickman

I had to take a long trip during break-in, too. Since I have the sport shift auto, I went ahead and put the cruise on, then toggled between 4th and 5th gear, with an occasional trip to 3rd. The car stayed at a steady speed, but the engine speed varied several hundred RPM. After the fact it occured to me that this does not change the speed in the drivetrain, so you might want to take that into consideration.

windnoise

any more thoughts on windnoise from the group - also are there any long term problems with using sport shift or manual mode more than the regular auto trans option? finally, my 168 hp engine calls for 4.2 quarts and my dealer and indy mechanic say it is okay to put in 5 quarts even though the dipstick reads more like the owners manual if the specified 4.2 is used - is someone being lazy on going with 5 qts ?

sduford

My OBXT is whisper quiet. No wind noise at all. However, I do not leave the cross-bars on the roof rack when not in use.

krzyss

"you need to get the V6 to get AWD"

 

I do not believe that it is the case anymore.

 

Krzys

 

PS It makes really slow Passat, 1.8T + Tiptronic + AWD

c_hunter

My 05 OB XT is pretty quiet, definitely the quietest Subaru I have owned thus far. It's also quieter than my wife's Acura TSX.

 

I don't notice any real wind noise issues, but the tires could definitely be quieter.

 

Craig

tsy

Ooh, even the V6 AWD is slow. With only the 1.8T it must be really slow!

 

tom

kens

Constantly using Sportshift instead of full auto and it's effect on transmission longevity? Good question. While I don't doubt manual shifting could put more stress on the drivetrain, the system is still designed to prevent obvious mishaps (ie. downshifting into a gear that would send you well past the rev limiter, starting in to high a gear from a stop).

 

I'm sure Subaru factored in some good amount of manual usage. Did they design it with 100% manual use? Probably not. But then it begs the question -- why get an auto if you are going to be shifting manually all the time?

 

Like with any auto tranny, keeping the ATF fresh is the key to longevity. Change frequently and, if you are going to track your car or tow a lot, consider a tranny cooler. In conjunction with common sense shifting, I think the tranny should do fine even with frequent manual shifts.

 

As for the 5 quarts, I would only believe the dealer if they are willing to document that they are putting in 5 quarts. While I have read that some amount less than 1 quart overfill won't cause problems, why risk it? I'd rather have slighlty less than "F" on the dipstick and over it. Higher amounts of oil can cause your PVC lines to foul and in very extreme cases, the crank can cause the oil to foam resulting in oil pump failure.

 

My dealer recently overfilled my oil enough for the level to exceed the hot "notch" in the dipstick when measured cold. I promptly called them and informed them of their error. They immediately apologized and promised to take corrective action with their tech -- clearly overfilling is not acceptable.

 

Ken

sduford

Actually, the 1.8T manual is literally as fast (slow) as the V6 Auto.

jchu

“My 05 OB XT is pretty quiet, definitely the quietest Subaru I have owned thus far. It's also quieter than my wife's Acura TSX.

  

I don't notice any real wind noise issues, but the tires could definitely be quieter.”

 

Same as my OB XTL. Also the turbo lag is less noticeable (auto) day by day after 5,000 miles. Really enjoy the car.

 

JC

ateixeira

I've only gone for short drives, but I didn't notice much wind noise. It seemed quiet to me. CR rated is one of the quietest in the batch of similar sedans it tested recently.

 

I too would choose AWD over VSC. Not all VSC are built the same, in fact Toyota is on v2.0 because their original system wasn't that effective.

 

AWD doubles the amount of available grip for traction, so it can actually increase traction. VSC can only try to make the best of what little traction you have with 2 wheels driving the vehicle.

 

Sly: glad to hear they resolved your windshield issue.

 

-juice

hilbert

Perhaps this has been discussed here before. I wrote to Subaru and they told me that OBXT can take synthetic oil, but that they do not know anything about whether it reduces engine wear and tear. More importantly, they said that once you start using synthetic oil you should always use synthetic oil as the engine gets used to it.

 

 Can you guys please tell me whether you use synthetic or regular oil in your OBXTs.

 

I am thinking about the temperature here which drops pretty low. Was wondering if synthetic would help in these low temperatures. Also, whether synthetic helps to increase the longevity of turbo. I want to keep this car in good shape (read powerful and quiet) for a very long time.

Thanks.

ntk1

Nate

Thanks for the info - very interesting - As they offer a 30 day money back guarantee, seems almost rude not to give it a go !

 

Pete

ttenrag

hey everyone, thanks for the help. I actually ended up buying my new Outback tonight!!!

 

I originally was planning on purchasing a limited 2.5i, but being that I am 6' 3" tall, I enjoyed the extra headroom in the base model without the moonroof. I liked it even more when the dealer said I could add the leather to the base model for around $1,000...

 

For the money the base model is a win, win situation. The only thing I would like is a little more HP, but I didn't want a turbo, and I can't afford the 6cyl.

 

Great car.....so far.

hilbert

Congrats. Enjoy your outback. You will find it hard to stay away from it.

c_hunter

Hey awesome! Those base models are a tremendous value.

 

Craig

yatesjo

Does anyone have numbers for acceleration on the base model? I'm trying to get a feel for how much I would want to live with the base engine with the 5sp. I wasn't able to get a good feel because I didn't get a chance to take it on the highway in the test drive.

stantont

I too would like any good info on the performance of the base Legacy with 5 MT. I have driven two of them, but not wanting to thrash a brand-new car, didn't get a feel for the performance, particularly in terms of highway passing. I have been unable to find any current road tests - all the car mags are so in love with the GT, that's all they test. I am really torn here. I definitely want a wagon with manual, no sunroof. But the engine choice is tough. Real measured data on the base engine with stick shift would help a lot. I found a CR test of the 2003(?) OB LTD with base engine and auto. It did 0-60 in 10.5 sec, about 18 sec on a 1/4 mile. But the new wagon is about 200 lbs lighter (is that right?), the absence of sunroof is another 50-80 lbs, Legacy is lighter than the OB, and the stick is faster than the auto. So 17 seconds for quarter? 0-60 in about 8.5 sec? Does anyone know real numbers?

kmclean

Hilbert -

 

Here is my experience with synthetics: 1) they are excellent in cold weather (make certain you install the appropriate weight: 5W20 would be typical for cold conditions; there are even lower weights, I believe) - they don't tend to "sludge up" as much as dino oil; 2) once you switch, you should stick with synthetics, although I don't know of any studies that have demonstrated problems from switching back; blended synthetics come to mind here; 3) I'd imagine that any engine component that's lubricated by oil would benefit from synthetics, although I've had two turbos last well into six figure mileage using only dino; 4) I'd suspect that Subaru's comment on engine wear stems from their simply not having any data to verify reduced wear from synthetics.

 

Cheers from Seattle - the Ukraine of the PNW

 

Ken M.

robr2

Cheers from Seattle - the Ukraine of the PNW

 

They haven't figured out that silly little election thing yet??

hilbert

Thanks Ken.

 

Given the low temperatures in winter here (its 20F today), I think I will go for synthetic after the break in period. The SOA representative mentioned that synthetics have a lower friction rating (I don't know what that exactly means) and therefore not to change to it unless the break in period is over. But after that there is no problem. Would you suggest Mobil-1 or is any other brand better? I would of course follow the viscosity recommendation.

c_hunter

I like Mobil-1 myself. You should stick with 5W-30 up there in Rochester.

 

I ran Mobil-1 in my WRX, but will probably stick with regular oil in my Outback XT.

 

Craig

hilbert

Thanks Craig. I thought of asking you in particular about this too (everyone knows how much you know). But I figured out that since you do not keep your cars for more than 4 years or so, it does not make much sense for you to use a synthetic.

 

I think I will get Mobil-1 5W-30. It snowed quite a bit last night, here in Rochester. It looks so beautiful

kens

I recently put M1 5W30 in my Legacy GT after running the first 8000 on conventional oil.

 

The only difference that I can perceive is that cold startup valvetrain noise is a little louder. When I went to wwww.bobistheoilguy.com, I later learned that M1 5W30 tends to be on the "thinner side" of a 5W30.

 

I think in the future I might go to M1 10W30 or even their 0W40.

 

Ken

ateixeira

Don't worry too much about 0-60, take it out for a long test drive and try it in real world scenarios. Merge on to highways you travel most frequently and see how it gets up to speed.

 

I bet more people use full power from 30-50 for passing, or maybe 50-70.

 

I think the 2.5l boxer is torquey and at least adequate, not quick but that's what the turbo is for. Then of course the turbo is just stupid fast.

 

It would be nice to have something in between the "adequate" and "stupid fast", and H6s are, but price puts them out of the picture for most folks.

 

-juice

hilbert

That is surprising. I in fact thought that the start would be less noisy because the oil is flowing well ana available for lubrication.

 

Thanks for the link to this site. I have not got the time to look it up yet but am sure there will be some helpful information there.

samiam_68

I've had good results with Quaker State full synthetic 5W-30 in both my 96 Legacy and my 04 XT.

kmclean

Hi, Hilbert,

 

I think Mobil-1 is excellent, although I'd expect any certified synthetic to have equivalent performance characteristics. You might want to take a look at the oil viscosity recommendation page in your owner's manual, and based on your anticipated usage select a brand that produces viscosities to cover your personal requirements (so that you don't have to switch brands to find the needed viscosity).

 

Seattle's weather is so benign (never truly hot or cold) that I use 5W30 all year long. But I took a 4000+ mile trip to southern Utah and Arizona this past summer and bumped the viscosity up a notch or so to deal with significantly different temperatures down that way.

 

Greetings from the PNW - the ballot-manufacturing center of the country (we make Florida look like rank amateurs)!

 

Ken M.

kens

While the manual recommends a certain oil weight, the oil weights have a "range" of viscosities.

 

For example, a 30 weight oil can be anywhere from 10cSt to 13cSt measured at 100 deg-C:

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

 

M1 5W30 is at the low-end of a 30 weight oil. Might be splitting hairs, but some people claims a few cSt difference is significant.

 

Ken

hilbert

Thanks everyone who has replied. Until now I was thinking that 5W-30 was the only thing I had to check for. But it seems viscosity is something different and not reflected in these numbers (Kens, I have not read the linked article yet). I will check the manual for that too.

 

Thanks. I think I will go with Mobil-1.

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

 



 

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

 

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

 

kirstie_h

Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

breld

For what it's worth, I used to drive a '98 Legacy GT, 5 speed. The 2.5 back then was a little different than the current one, but I believe essentially the same in character.

 

With the manual, I rarely had any complaints on the power of that car and, further, thought it was quite fun and peppy. At that time, I had come from a '93 Prelude Si and remember thinking the Legacy was fairly comparable (not that the Prelude was like today's pocket rockets, but it gives you an idea of what I was comparing it to).

 

If I were buying a Legacy today, I know I couldn't resist getting the GT, but I find it amusing how much horsepower cars have these days - and we're talking about "everyday" family cars. I remember not too long ago thinking my Prelude had "so much" horsepower at 160. 200 hp was extreme back then. Ever since Nissan re-did the Altima, 200 hp is "so yesterday"

sduford

Yeah, not too long ago 250HP was supercar territory...

kens

Good point on how folks get used to a certain level of power after a while. My 98 Forester 5MT (same engine as your 98 LGT) also felt peppy. 165HP was pretty respectable then.

 

Ken

tmeframe

I just got my 05 OB LaLaBean and have started my "bonding" process. I upgraded from an Infiniti I35, and this is more fun.

 

Hearing all the diatribes about the stock tires makes me wonder. I'm in Texas, and MOST of the time, the frozen stuff we get, once in a blue-moon is ICE, so tire choice is seemingly irrelavent. However, I did put Michelin HydroEdge on the I35, and found out that they were very NOISY!! Anyone got any suggestions on a good all-season tire that's quieter?

 

Steve

hilbert

This power thing is pretty addictive. If I try to imagine myself as buying a new vehicle, I just cannot think of buying something less powerful. It seems that one of the most important criteria will be that the new car be at least as powerful. But then I hope I am not in the market for a very long time.

hilbert

Congrats! Which I35 did you have? I think they are quite powerful too and perhaps have more torque than LL Bean. I guess you are talking about other things you are enjoying such as handling and stuff.

sduford

Congrats on the new car!

 

The Turanza LS-V will provide the best ride and is very quiet. It slso handles quite well and works very well in the rain.

 

If you want something sportier, look at the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S or the Pirelli P-Zero Nero M+S in 235/55-17 (it is actually the same size as the Michelin in 225/55-17).

 

Enjoy your new machine!

 

Sly

rwoods

I just read the most recent issue of the NY AAA Car and Travel magazine which reviewed the Subaru VDC. It got praise for cargo utility but slamed for being terribly slow to accelerate off the line. Interior comfort also was criticized. My OB XT certainly doesn't suffer from any shortage of low end grunt and is quite comfortable. I'd say the '05 version of the OB XT is gaining considerable ground on the BMW 3 series if anybody asked me. The BMW does possess that silky smooth handling that they are renowned for but the my new OB XT feels very tight and its interior materials have caught up to the BMW. The seats are also just as good as my Bimmer. In my opinion the folks as Subaru are turning into fierce competitors and Audi, BMW and Acura may have to start looking in their rear view mirrors. What do you all think?

sduford

I more or less agree with you. The speed and handling is certainly there!

 

While I really like my OBXT and the interior looks great (it is a giant leap forward for Subaru), I think it still falls short of the Bimmers in the quality of the materials, the comfort of the seats, and the attention to details.

 

But hey, it doesn't cost nearly as much as the Bimmer either (you'd have to go to a 330xi with premium package to compare), so I wasn't expecting my OBXT to be quite up there yet.

 

Sly

rsholland

I just read that BMW will offer a 525xi and 530xi for MY06 here in the USA.

 

Another possible competitor for Subaru...

 

Bob

kyfdx

I still haven't seen any real "evidence" that this is happening.. just rumor.. Some are even saying by Spring, but you'd think there would be something solid by now, if that were the case.

 

regards,

kyfdx

lumbar

Regarding the VDC, I have not personally driven one, but I'd have to question the credibility of a review that found a 3.0 ltr., 250HP DOHC 24 valve engine in a 3600 lb. vehicle very slow off the line. Obviously has less low end torque than the XT (what doesn't?) but slow? I don't think so.

 

Here's another view on the 6 cyl. from a source I respect that will have to remain nameless: "The 3.0-liter “flat” six-cylinder engine is a gem, with plenty of accessible power and torque, and a wonderful engine note. For spirited driving, the five-speed automatic features a “Sport” mode, which holds revs longer and shifts down sooner. The transmission also offers a manual mode, with a shift gate that is properly located on the driver’s side of the PRNDL path. This manual mode is a joy to use, featuring impressive heft to the shift action, which is logical with taps up for upshifts and taps down for downshifts. Plus, this is no ninny-manual; it won’t automatically upshift for the driver when the engine approaches the rev limiter."

tmeframe

The OB is more appropriate to the type vehicle I was looking for, and the Infiniti was getting old.

 

There was only one I35, it was the I30 that was split - the Touring model or "t", and the non-Touring model - the one I had.

 

I just realized I mis-stated -I had an I30, which was getting long-in-the-tooth.

 

Yep, it had more torque, but the OB is fine there too.

 

Steve