Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

rob_m

I still like my 05 LGT. Rob M.

c_hunter

I have to agree -- my 05 OB XT feels a lot nicer than my 00 and 02 models did. I attribute it to better computational modeling and design of the structure, combined with strategic use of better materials (high strength steel, aluminum) and better assembly techniques (using adhesives and special welds). The whole area taken leaps and bounds in recent years, and it's not uncommon to find new models weghing less while having significantly better rigidity and strength.
Craig

sduford

Actually, if you look at the definition of "extreme", I think a majority of people would fall under it:

-driving in dusty areas
-driving in very hot or cold climates
-towing
-lots of stop-n-go traffic.

So how many people don't do any of these things?

ssminton

You are correct... assuming you have the keyless entry device. I am active outdoors and often only have the ignition key. It is a pain to open only the driver's door to unlock the doors, and then go back and open the hatch, which is where you really wanted to get something. My Ford products had a great keyless pad for entry. This design patent should have run out a while ago. I hope other manufactures incorporate the design.

sduford

To me the real issue is that we have a separate remote and a huge key. It should all be integrate in one neat little package like VW and Volvo, where the key folds into the remote.

ateixeira

There was a case of a VW switchblade key getting confiscated at an airport security check point, though. Those guys can get a little overzealous.

If you take keys with you like that, just deploy them so they're already in the open position when you go through security!

-juice

alpha01

A friend of mine just recently bought an Accord EX whose keyless fob is integrated into the design of the key. However, the key doesnt retract as in VDubs. IT IS A MASSIVE DEVICE that fits comfortably in the pockets of no pants I've ever worn.

Long way around... what Im trying to say is that I'm happy with the Legacy's separate fob and key, since you can always just keep the fob in your pocket on your key chain and the key in the center armrest or above the center control stack, which I do often.

Joe

kyfdx

Or.. are you just happy to see me? :P

twrx

Honda's original remote entry was on the top of the line 1991 Accord EX wagon that my wife owned. The key for the system was large because the remote was built in. But get this, the remote was infrared. The key had an infrared remote window built in and a rechargeable battery that the ignition recharged. There were infrared sensors at the driver's door and rear hatch. Beaming the driver's door only unlocked it and the hatch all doors. I once programmed my TV remote to open the car. Despite the strange nature of the system it worked just fine and the rechargeable battery in the key lasted the entire 4 years we owned the car.

TWRX

kens

Our 2000 VW Jetta remote/key is a neat single design, but it's really not that much smaller than the Legacy key and fob combination.

The bad thing about the VW design is that the buttons use a rubber membrane with the lock/unlock symbols printed on them. The symbols wear out over time.

Ken

subiewtb

What do you think about the reliability of the turbo motor? Don't want to have to deal with major turbo issue around 100K+ miles. It would be a big repair bill if anything goes wrong with the turbo.

Test drive the i version and think that the OB could use a few extra pony. If the turbo might be created some problem down the line, I will have to go with the i version.

Lee

sduford

I think you mean "durability" as opposed to "reliability".

Subaru's turbos seem to be quite durable when not abused, but there is no such thing as a free lunch, so I'wouldn't expect a turbo engine to last quite as long as a normally aspirated one.

You might want to wait for an 06 2.5i, which apparently gets an extra 5HP and a broader torque curve along with better MPG.

sweet_subie

how many of us really drive over 100k miles ? give me a break.

njswamplands

locke2c

well, a lot of people do but not me. I've never put more than ~45,000 miles on a car before selling it. I do buy used sometimes but even then I've only had a daily driver over 100k once.

I definitely don't buy new cars with much concern about making it to 200k miles without major repairs. It can happen, I have no doubt, and yes some brands will have a statistical edge over others AND lower performance models often require lower maintenance, but... everything wears. making it to 200k on a Honda or Toyota with no major failures is commendable, but IMO it just assures you all the more that it's going to need expensive repairs in the near future. Everything wears.

~Colin

subearu

Easy swampy, one could say the same about Honda trannies. :P

I've read at other MPV sites about '00+ MPV's going fine over 100k miles, there's several '00-'01's at this level, plus a lot of the Gen1 models (<='98) over that mark too.

I think most vehicles that are properly maintained will easily offer 100+k of service. We just don't do that type of mileage (<10k miles per year) and will usually be in a different vehicle every 4 or 5 years.

-Brian

saintviper

Drove my MR2 turbo till it had 140K miles and then sold it with everything working fine. Never required any engine repairs. That was a turbo engine design from the late 80's. I imagine the current Subaru design when properly maintained as my MR2 was is at least as robust.

zman3

A lot of us, actually.

njswamplands

and havent even changed a lite bulb on it yet

ateixeira

We take it for granted, but Toyota's sludge debacle and Honda's tranny issues prove that nothing is fool-proof. Toss in Subaru's head gaskets while you're at it. Audi's 1.8T and Chysler's 2.7l V6 are also affected by sludge. Some GM V6s blow intake gaskets, too.

I'm certain that a TL buyer expected his car to go 200k miles with nothing but maintenance but you never know. Some are on their 3rd tranny. Next year Honda will revise the Odyssey's tranny yet again, which is proof they're still working to make it more durable, even today.

The past can only help us forecast the future. But it's just a guess, no more no less.

For Subaru, I have observed patterns of problems with the following:

'98-'02 Forester rear wheel bearings
'98-'01 Impreza rear wheel bearings
'02 and earlier head gaskets on the normally aspirate 2.5l EJ series
clutch chatter up until about '02, though not all are affected
'02 WRX issues with ABS
'02 WRX tranny issues (in '03 they added a force-limiting valve on the clutch to prevent abuse)
In heavier models some brake rotor issues (scattered, though)

Sounds like a lot but for the most part '03 and later models have not shown significant patterns of failure, at least not yet. Plus CR named Subaru the most reliable brand, they still have problems but less than the rest.

If anything the turbo engines have been better, not worse, than the normally aspirated ones. That may simly be because they are newer, but there's little to suggest they are any worse than N/A engines in the lineup.

-juice

locke2c

um, no that's apples and oranges. the Subaru EJ series of engines are open deck and all-alloy. your toyota 4AG was closed deck and iron block. it's a ton more durable than an EJ series of any vintage (although the 96-99 2.5L DOHC were definitely the worst!).

~Colin

samiam_68

I sold my '88 Supra Turbo at 168K miles, never had a problem with the turbo. Supposedly, that car still runs strong and has over 200K miles on it today.

rob_m

I traded my 99 Legacy GT LTD with the 2.5 DOHC engine at 125k last month. All it needed was a set of tires and the 120k maintenance. It ran perfectly, and I never had a problem with it. I could have kept it, but the 05 Legacy GT Turbo was just too tempting. Because of my commute to work, I expect to do 100k in under 5 years. Rob M.

locke2c

Rob do you follow the Problems topic here? 96-99 2.5L DOHC = matter of when, not if, the headgaskets will blow.

~Colin

subiewtb

Thank everybody for all the great advices. I think I will go for the N/A 2006 OBI. I will let you guy know once I become a proud Subie owner!! :P

rob_m

Colin, I guess luck was on my side. Not that it's worth anything, but my car didn't fall under the coolant additive recall. Besides, I was already over 100k by that time, so the repair would have been on my dime. Just gave me another reason to move up to the 05. Rob M.

PS - my guess is that the gaskets would have gone at 140k, but I'll never know!

archimedes

I am a pretty dedicated Nissan driver. However, subaru design and technology have been tempting me for some time. I had a 1994 Altima for almost 10 years and put 220,000 miles on it, and it felt like it would go another 100k. I traded it for a 2001 Infiniti QX4 that now has 108,000 miles and still feels almost new with no extraordinary maintenance except O2 sensors. The QX4 seems like a vehicle that could go to 300-400k miles, with adequate care. However, sometimes I feel myself really tempted by the 2005 Outback, probably XT limited, 5 speed. Anybody out there made a similar trade and happy you did (or not)? Even though Subarus do last a long time, I am concerned by the various issues that have been brought up (climate control, braking distance, stereo quality, etc.). Regarding turbo, I have talked with a mechanic-type friend who swears that turbos will always have more problems than non-turbos. Unclear on this. But, I do know the engine in my QX4 is supposed to be almost bullet-proof. So, I will probably end up keeping it for a long time. Oh, well.....

Btw, I live in north Florida, so AWD is not such a big draw for me. Anyone with opinions regarding benefits of awd when snow is not an issue. I do go camping and drive on sand at times. And, of course, there is the rain....

beanboy

have semi-closed decks, not open decks:

Reinforced "semi-closed deck" alloy block

-B

porcoroso

How about a set of Nokian WR A.W.P. 2 if you only want all seasons. They are the only tires with the "snow flakes" symbol I think.

We have a set of Nokian Hakka 2s for winter.

sduford

Yes logically, a turbo will have more issues then the same engine in NA form. You're adding extra hardware, increasing pressures and temperature, and generating more power from the same engine. You can't expect to do all that and not have more issues. However, that still doesn't mean that the engine will be troublesome. You can still be very much troublefree and durable, even if it is say, 5% less reliable.

Also, Subaru's turbo engines are not exactly the same as their NA counterparts. They have many "beefed-up" components, which can conceivably make them more durable.

Bottom line is that if you want the performance, the turbo will be great and it will be reliable, but yes, it will cost you more over time, even if only because of the extra gas. If total cost of ownership is more important to you, then by all means go with the 2.5i.

electricglide

Let's see...... I currently have a 96 dodge caravan that has 220,000 miles on it, a 97 dodge neon with 180,000 miles on it, and a 96 dodge Ram pickup with 120,000 miles on it, I expect that my 2005 outback to get at least 200,000 miles on it before I consider purchasing another car.

sliverflinger

I had 204k on my 97 ob when I traded it in. :P

rob_m

I think there are two components to this conversation. First, durability. A high milage Subie is not unheard of. Second, and most important to me, is cost of ownership. I think I have spent around $2000 for repairs above normal maintenance for my last 4 Subaru's over a 10 year period. Most of this went to brakes and tires. I expect nothing less with the 05 LGT. Compared to my 99 GT, maintenance may be slightly higher. Gas costs me an extra $20/month. Based on past experience, I can hope for 100k trouble-free miles in the next 5 years. Rob M.

saintviper

My point wasn't to say that Subaru engines are similar to Toyota engines, but rather to point out that it is possible to build a turbo engine with good durability and longevity. Certainly any issues with turbo engines are understood better now than they were in the late 80's and even early 90's, no matter what the configuration of the engine is. One would hope at least.

kevin13

Hi. I've heard about air conditioning problems on the Legacy GT. Apparently, when the target temperature is reached, the air starts blowing hot. Are people having this problem?
Thanks!

sduford

It is not so much an issue as it is a cheap design.

Designers have two choices for what to do when the set temperature is reached. The best ACC systems will blend hot anc clod air to output air at the desired temperature. Cheaper systems like the one used by Subaru will simply turn the AC on and off to mainatain the desired temperature. This will cause air to alternately go from AC to plain outside air.

rob_m

I have had my LGT for 5 weeks now. I with temperatures ranging from 40 degrees when I got the car to 100 degrees last weekend, I have not had any problems with the ACC.

Although I will have to say that the automatic mode is different than what I am used to with my manual mode Subarus. The ACC decides fan speed, which vents to use, and when to switch to outside air. I don't like the bi-level vents which blow air in my face. This car seems to favor them. I have pretty much let the ACC do it's own thing, and have been comfortable. Occasionally, I dial up or down a couple degrees. You do know when it switches from recirculate to outside air. You feel a blast of warmer air, then it seems to settle back to the target temperature. FWIW, I almost always ran outside air most of the time in my other Subaru. Rob M.

locke2c

have semi-closed decks, not open decks:

Reinforced "semi-closed deck" alloy block
"semi-closed" is FHI hype. all that has really changed is that there are 2 narrow tabs on each cylinder wall. it is a tiny difference from the naturally aspirated blocks. there are pictures on cobbtuning and other sites... compare this to a real closed-deck block.

~Colin

salient

Hello all. I have a question about use of wind deflector for the Outback 2005 Wagon. I just purchased a new one and I have found that the noise from the "wind deflector" portion of the split moonroof gets to be pretty overpowering when my speed reaches about 50 MPH. Does anyone have any experience with the wind deflector (sold seperately as an accessory) for the split moonroof?

kyfdx

You are probably getting the "vacuum effect"... Try lowering your rear windows a few inches.. that may fix it..

It happens on almost every vehicle with a sunroof..

ateixeira

Yeah, that can be unbearable.

A wind deflector helps a bit, but when I remove mine I still have to crack the rear windows slightly. I has something to do with pressurization.

-juice

tiger10

do any Subies come with 3rd row seats other than the B9? jUST curious!

ateixeira

But I guess you could bolt on old BRAT seats onto a Baja and call that a 3rd row. LOL

-juice

xwesx

My father owns a Hyundai "luxury" car... what is that one.... XG something or other. Anyway, I drove it once and decided to open the sunroof because it was 40 degrees outside and having just come from Fairbanks in November (about -15F when I left), it was far too warm not to take advantage! Opening the windows made the interior a little too chilly running 70 on I-84, so I closed the windows and opened the sunroof. Almost zero wind noise and wind, no buffeting, but it pleasantly refreshed the air in the car. I even hit a couple of rain storms on my way through the Portland area and there was no need to close the hatch. It was an enjoyable trip and was certainly a nice reprieve from the frigid north!

rwoods

I've owned an '05 OBXT Ltd for eight months and 8,000 miles. I also own an Audi A4 - wife's and Lexus GS 430 - summer car. Your concerns regarding the climate control should not worry you. Subies have a good auto climate system. The stereo with the optional sub woofer is close to the Audi's Bose system and the Lexus Mark Levinson. Not quite as good but good enough.

Braking was a concern of mine but when I decided to replace the original tires at 5,000 miles with four Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires I noticed a dramatic improvement in stopping distance.

AWD will yield many dividends other than in snow. It tracks well on all corners, feels planted to the road and resists slipping and hydroplaning especially now with the Michelins. The Subaru has a carlike ride unlike your current truck. It leaves you feeling relaxed after a day behind the wheel rather than tired and grumpy. The subaru will carry as much as your truck, will burn less fuel and won't roll over as easily.

Hope you decide on a Subaru.

Bob

beanboy

The WRX motor is open deck. Subaru when making the block for the American STi thought the tabs must do something, or at least bring the weaker 2.5L up to the strength of the 2.0L open deck for turbocharged applications.

As far as durability goes, minus the turbo, all of the long-term durability areas of the LGT motor are designed for 50 more HP and lbs-ft of torque in the STi application. In other words, it is a bit overbuilt for "only" 250HP.

-B

subiewtb

Anybody hear anything about the spec for 2006 OB and OBXT? :confuse:

Lee

hat

Within the last day, Joe Spitz has posted information about the 06 Legacy & Outback on his site (cars101.com). For the base Outback 2.5i (which I'm most interested in), upgrades include 17" wheels, immobilizer key, air filtration, and of course the horsepower bump due to AVLS. See his site for more details ...

ateixeira

I can't believe the base Legacy gets 17"s and the Forester turbo does not!

-juice

robr2

I can't believe they are only offering autos on the 2.5i Limited and GT Limited wagons - looks like stick only on the 2.5i Base wagon as GT Base Wagon is no longer.