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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+



  • bhrobertsbhroberts Posts: 13
    My preference is to wait for the new Legacy rather than jump at the Forester XT right now. But, I keep worrying that Subaru will wake up soon and start charging "market" prices for 250 HP AWD vehicles.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think that these cars are going to start the mass transition from SUV over to Crossover/Wagon/Minivan. I would buy any Subaru, because they're great in the snow, with great safety records, great reliability, and don't use too much gasoline in the process. They're different than other cars too. They just stick out in some sort of odd way that Volvos,Saabs, and Mazdas do.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,976
    With Kirstie, libertycat is very obviously a troll in here to bash Subaru, so my question why is anyone wasting time communicating with the troll.

     Cheers Pat.
  • subewannabesubewannabe Posts: 403
    at least in the photos of the japanese spec version, look a lot like the seats in the current WRX, with the pronounced bolsters to keep your seat and torso in place in the twisties. I really like those WRX seats and the rather flat seats in the Forester XT have me concerned about long-drive comfort. Obviously, pronounced fixed seat bolsters make it hard to slide across a seat as you get into it, as is the case in a higher vehicle like an SUV or truck. My 04 Explorer solved that problem with power pneumatic seat bolsters that you can inflate once you're in the seat. In a lower ride vehicle, like a WRX wagon, you descend into the seat at the same time you move your rear over the seat . Its got me thinking that the '05 Legacy turbo wagon may be a better match for my needs than a 04 Forester XT at least enough to wait on the Legacy.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    I don't like current Subarus. I am hoping that these new ones will help me to like a Subaru. In fact, I CREATED this discussion.
  • subewannabesubewannabe Posts: 403
    libertycat, I noticed the fact that you created this discussion. I assume until proven otherwise that you are a car enthusiast with particular interest in AWD vehicles.
       Vehicle style taste is so personal. I see the Mustang concept car looks almost exactly like a '69 Mach 1. For me, that car was a rolling wet dream, given my age and exposure to cars at the time. Yet, I understand how some folks hate that look . The only competition for a '69 Mach 1 was a '70-71 Hemi Cuda or a Challenger TA with a 440 Mopar monster with dual Holley 4 barrel carbs ...have you noticed what the going price for one of those is, these days? Cheaper to get a new Porsche!
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    Great interpretation, it is totally correct!
  • intrigue2intrigue2 Posts: 46
    Found these in another topic, but they demonstrate what a beauty the '05 will be.

    As for the car enthusiast, in the recent JD powers listing Subaru was in the top six,didn't notive Volvo though.Oh well, I guess all those free donuts for the many trips to the volvo service bay,due to its low reliability ratings might be responsible.
  • luck11luck11 Posts: 425
    I'm going to pipe in here and give my thumbs up on the new Subs. As a current 00 Outback owner who is looking to trade in in the next year, I am definitely pleased that Subaru is changing the look. I must say that at this point, I'm leaning towards the Legacy, but its too early to tell with only 1 or 2 pics of the Outback floating around. My only concern, as others have expressed, is pricing. I hope they keep the pricing reasonable.
  • rsorganizersorganize Posts: 131
    Had been trying to decide among the OB LL Bean, A4 Avant and Saab 9-5 and 9-3. But, I am really intrigued by the changes in the offing on the 2005 Legacy - bigger engine, bigger interior, better seats, better looking (IMHO). While I'm sure my anxiety level on the next Volvo XC ('99)repair disaster will be unabated until I dump the car, I think I'll be a lot happier with the 2005 - if it comes out looking and driving as the previews suggest. So, unless/until something else goes wrong, driving me over the edge, I think I'll wait on the 2005 Legacy GT wagon, w/leather and, perhaps, manual. Could be a lot of fun. Peace.
  • priscprisc Posts: 16
    Hi folks!

    Does anyone have any information detailing the dimensions on the new Legacy? I've read several people comments stating that it will be bigger but I haven't come across any real data.

    I have a general comment to make to any car designers out there.

    I think that designing a car interior to resemble an airplane cock pit is great, but it does cut down on interior space and make it more difficult for taller/larger people to find a comfortable driving position.

    I found this to be the case with the new Accord and several other re-model cars. I'm 6'2" tall and find it extremely fustrating to sit in a great car and have my right knee rub up against the center console. I bring this up here because I found the pictures of the new Legacy interior to suggest my knee would hit the center console.

    Other than that the '05 Legacy looks awsome.

    help ......
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Some of the articles above might have specifics. It should be a little longer and wider, so room should be improved.

    They do appear to give up the double-decker roof, so we'll have to see how airy it feels inside.

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The new model is up to 105.1" It's a bit wider too. The length is about the same.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Anyone have a base price?
  • ace1000ace1000 Posts: 151
    The August issue of the British magazine, Car, has a "Newcomer" article on the new Legacy. It drove the 260 HP Japanese model. UK is suppose to get only a 238 HP version of the 2.0 engine plus a range of other H4 and H6 engines. The base price was estimated to be 18,000 pounds.

    Car gave the new Legacy a rating of 3 out of 5 stars and described it as a "good, if average, car." Elsewhere it describes the car as competent but not exciting.

    In every issue Car summarizes its ratings on all the cars available in the UK. Its comments are frank and often amusing. In contrast to the Legacy, it gives the Forester 2.0 XT a rating of 4.5 stars, and the cons that it lists for the XT are "rolly" handling and being thirsty.
  • priscprisc Posts: 16
    Regarding the XT, the thristy thing kinda bothered me a bit. With a 16gal tank and assuming and ave of 20mpg that mean your range would be ~ 320miles per fillup (probably 40 or so miles less since most people don't run their tank dry).

    Anyway, since the '05 Legacy that we will see in the US is being sold in the UK and Japan as an '04, I would think that true spec's (in so far as dimension are conserned) should be available on the web somewhere. Has anyone looked into this ?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The topic of fuel mileage is being discussed in the XT topic right now. All polled so far are averaging better than 20mpg, I think it ranges from 21 to 23 or so, FWIW.

  • Ive heard lots of rumors about a 2.5 L turbo in the US release, as opposed to the 2.0 turbo in the Japanese and New Zealand versions, the only ones out so far. 20% more displacement should allow a lot of capability for even better acceleration and top end without stressing the engine as much. Probably wont help with fuel efficiency, if the Forester XT is any indication.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    August issue of C&D has a preview of the Subaru Legacy. They mention the upgrade in interior quality and stylings, plus it's lighter. They also mentioned the two US engines; 1.) a detuned 2.5L H4 Turbo - 250 HP; 2.) 3.6L H6 - 250 HP.

    IMHO Subarus are generally worth the premium but the 30-35K+ price point will be an interesting market. I think it will be worth it, the Legacy will still be 5-10K+ less than a comparable Euro wagon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We're hearing all kinds of power output and even displacement numbers for the H6.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Hope it doesn't creep up in price too much.
  • nygregnygreg Posts: 1,936
    estimates $25-$29K for the turbo versions. My bet it will be closer to $25-$26K. H6=250Hp, H4T=250HP, H4=165HP.

  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    but the Legacy GT sedan will set he bench mark for pricing the line. The current GT version is easy to find in Missouri for under $24k. A couple of dealers are even close to $23k!!!!. I'm not sure what the MSRP will be but my guess is that it will sell for $26-27k price after the "rush". Its got more power and seems better in every way.....thats worth $2-3k.

    To crack $30-35k and hold that price point as a higher volume (big profit) option it needs to show up with 280-300hp. Its going to need AWD AND big power to set it apart from the pack. It worked for the WRX and it would work for the GT.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I really hope the L comes in at around $20k street price, for starters. Then the GT at around $25k, and finally the STi in the $30k+ arena.

    That's the best way to get volume out of it.

  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    C&D had a writeup about the new Legacy in the current issue. If I recall correctly, they were saying that the base 2.5 H4 would probably go for low- to mid-20's, the turbo a few thousand above this and the H6 around $30K.

    - Mark
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    I'm reading this two-page spread (one-page review, one-page photo) over lunch as I write. Automobile claims the powerplants will initially be the good old Phase II EJ25 base, current H6 line-topper, to be followed shortly thereafter by the 2.5 l WRX STi engine detuned to "about 250 hp." Five-speed manuals and 5EAT automatics will be offered. Without quoting extensively, the article states that the car's "build quality is beyond reproach" but that styling is too bland and derivative - "the perfect getaway car." The author states that Subaru styling gambles (e.g., XT and SVX) resulted in "bizarre cars...purchased in small numbers by equally bizarre engineering enthusiasts."

    The model pictured and test driven is a 2.0 GT Spec B, a JDM version powered by a (you guessed it) 276 hp version of the home-market WRX's 2.0 l four. Claimed 0-60 for this car is 6.3 sec; estimated price $US 29K.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Sounds like a good price to pay for a Subaru Legacy L.
  • it sounds like they will price the US release 05 Legacy GT wagon almost identical to the Forester XT, which will make my decision between the two a lot harder. Truth be told, its a lot easier loading a canoe on top a shorter wagon, although the Forester is already a great improvement over a mid size SUV in that regard. Dang...I may have to sell my wife's A6 and get one of each.
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 438
    Doesn't the Outback look much better with a dark bottom. Subaru, make all the Outback colors available in monotone!! (Subaru Germany H6 model)


  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    I just dont understand why Subaru is sticking the H6 into the GT. If they really want 3 engine configurations for the Legacy they can go 2.5H4 "base", 2.5H4t 225hp "L", and 2.5H4T 300hp "GT". They can even use the same basic transmissions they already have (autos, 5spd, and 6spd). I'm not sure why they just dont keep the H6 as an OB only motor and tune it for more low end grunt. That would be a nice way to really set the OB apart and keep that turo performance image for the Legacy. OB = smooth low end grunt. Legacy = screaming turbo power.

    Additional thoughts:
    1) Are they going to offer a manual with the H6 in the GT? If they go with the H6 in the GT, which I dont think they should do, and they dont offer a manual it will be a huge mistake.
    2) Is the new H6 really going to be 3.5L and 250hp? I really dont like the current H6 3.0 and my feeling is that the 2.5t 225hp outperforms it quite readily is most aspects. I hope the H6 3.5 is better.
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