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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,566
    Looked at the PDF specs. The H4 has 5MT or 4EAT (w/ sportshift?). The H6 has 5EAT w/ sportshift (I see steering wheel buttons in the below mentioned interior shots).

    H4 = 215/60-16 - I wonder if N. America will get the larger 225/60-16 again?
    H6 = 215/55-17

    Remember that these are German specs and the N. American version may be spec'ed differently.

    Also saw some exterior and interior pictures elsewhere. The Outback has an interesting quasi dual moonroof. I'm going back to finish my Nabisco crackers now. There currently sitting below the Baja, Forester & Legacy. ;-)

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    You guys knew I would check this out... :)

    ...And with a little help from Babblefish:

    Trailer weight:

    Unbraked trailer = 1,653.45 lbs. (all models)

    Braked trailer 2.5L 5-speed & 4EAT @ 12% grade = 3,968.28 lbs.
    Braked trailer 3.0L 5EAT @ 12% grade = 4,409.2 lbs.

    Braked trailer 2.5L 5-speed @ 8% grade = 4,321.016 lbs.
    Braked trailer 2.5L 4EAT @ 8% grade = 4,343.062 lbs.
    Braked trailer 3.0L 5EAT @ 8% grade = 4,541.476 lbs.

    This is a significant upgrade from outgoing models. Even assuming SOA lawyers take their corporate hatchet to these numbers, I think (pray!) we will see an increase in US-spec towing.

    Bob (grinning from ear-to-ear)
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,566
    H6 = 245 PS. 0-100 kmh (62mph) = 8.5 seconds w/ 5EAT vs. 10.9 for H4 w/ 4EAT vs. 9.8 for H4 w/ 5MT.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    has updated their web site with the new models! Check out the nifty new moonroof on the Outback! Looks like Babelfish will be getting a workout today... ;)

    http://www.subaru.de/

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    H6 + 5EAT sportshift would do it for my wife, she'd love that combo right now.

    OK, Bob, but you have to promise to stop talking about it if they finally give you more capacity! LOL

    WHOA, that moonroof is cool! The front portion becomes the deflector, the rear retracts. But there is nothing in between, it's wide open, and much bigger than the current one. Big improvement.

    I'd be happy with any big moonroof, to me it seemed that the one in the plain Legacy was different, more like what the Forester has now. Is my memory failing me? [don't answer that!]

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

    Please offer a regular sliding/tilting one piece roof in the Legacy wagon over the driver.
    PLEASE!! PRETTY PLEASE!!

    I know it's silly, but I want a normal moonroof and it is a deal breaker for me. I'm in the car everyday - not passengers in the rear seat.
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,566
    From the pictures at Subaru of Germany, it looks like there's quite a bit of the open portion over the driver. From what I see so far, it's light years ahead of the current (silly IMHO) dual moonroofs.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I'm just hoping that deflector will make for quiet cruising with the moonroof open. Our Forester, with its huge moonroof is very noisy.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The other complaint about the current Forester moonroof is that you cannot tilt it, it only slides back.

    This new design could address both the noise issue, plus it could tilt independently.

    -juice
  • The downside of the sunroof is that it weighs an additional 44lbs. :( The Japan site is updated with specs, and it says the following:

    "vehicle weight/gross vehicle weight: As for LEGACY Macintosh sound system equipped car + 10kg. As for sun roof equipped car + 20kg. As for SRS side air bag + curtain air bag equipped car + 10kg. As for VDC equipped car + 10kg."

    Can I get a GT no sunroof but with VDC and Macintosh? I figure the stereo is worth the weight from what I hear about it, and maybe the VDC would be as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'd take the moonroof and VDC, but not the stereo. What's the point when you listen to "Sesame Street Live"! LOL

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 439
    2005 Outback looks cool in monotone gold (on the Germany site). Maybe Subaru has finally paid more attention to exterior style! The front looks like the next generation Passat...

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, you can get monotone champagne right now, they call it Titanium Pearl.

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,566
    There is a monotone Champagne Opal available on some '04 Outbacks.

    DaveM
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Maybe it's the next-gen Passat that looks more like the Legacy? :-)

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, because the Legacy is available now in Japan, so it came first. I'm sure it was a coincidence.

    -juice
  • January w/ LA or Detroit or April w/ NY?
    1) Will the entry levels get only the side chest airbags? Would like to see the side chest and full side curtain on all levels.
    2) Nice to hear 5 stars expected on the EuroCAP. How 'bout all green on the IIHS? Expect front but curious about side.
    3) Will the U.S. get the turnsignal integrated mirrors? That's mainly for pedestrians, right? Seems side mounted would be better for anti-collision enhancement in emergency situations.
    4) Will the lower model 05 OB cladding be painted (as in the pics we're seeing)? Would prefer a grey or black all-the-way-through material like on the Forester 2.5X, CR-V, V70XC, etc..
    5) Any firming yet to 05 OB wagon engine choices? Had read only H6 variations would be offered. Need mainly for commuting and some trips. OBs driven to date seemed fine with the four. Still dreamin' of a diesel, someday.
    6) Full size spare or sticking w/ the donut?
  • wsag26wsag26 Posts: 124
    The auto show version, at the Frankfurt IAA, only included 245 horsepower. I hope this low horsepower thing doesn't continue. I'm ready for a new kind of Subaru.

    The German version looks beautiful. The interior looks like they got a little bit of a lesson from Nissan. This will be a strong competitor to the Altima, Accord, as well as Camry's. I'm hoping it does good, because I may even buy it soon.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Hey, can't wait. Car looks great, and it seems like as if it'll keep the New Englanders, the core subaru buyers, happy.
  • The Forester is rated 210HP and is faster than the WRX. I think 245 HP is plenty, as long as there's plenty of low-end torque
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The new 240-something HP US-spec Legacy will be far quicker than the current model, especially with the 5-speed SportShift auto. In addition, it has variable-valve tuning, which the outgoing model doesn't have, so low and mid-range power should be greatly improved. The all-new Legacy is not even here yet, and people are already complaining! Amazing...

    Bob
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    The reason people are complaining is because they're sooo used to that 270's something WRX STi that once they climb into the Legacy, they think it's slow, when it really is adaquate.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Their 0-60 numbers for the new H6 are around 8 seconds, but I bet the turbo, particularly with a manual, breaks the 6 second barrier in at least some tests.

    I've driven an XT and the 2.5T has torque like you're never felt before in a Subaru.

    -juice
  • the specs on the new legacy on the nz and duetch sites both list the final ratio as the 4.41 used in the forester XT. Those arent the 2.5 turbo models , but thats going to get moving from zero in a hurry in either the turbo or H6.
    mark
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I WANT HIGH FUEL ECONOMY!!!! (sell me a Subaru Hybrid, then I'll go shopping)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't see how they'll improve MPG, as stated in another thread.

    For high MPG, they ought to use the 3.9 final drive from the WRX.

    The 4.41 will be wicked-fast, though.

    -juice
  • will be around 8 seconds, that is not much of an improvement over the current H6 (8.5 seconds) at all.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Let's see if it's also more efficient, though. Less weight had me expecting them to be quicker too, though maybe Subaru is being conservative with its estimates.

    -juice
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    Does anybody know what the hp and torque numbers for the '05 4 cylinder legacy/OB will be? Will it have AVCS?

    Eric
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    Does anybody know what the hp and torque numbers for the '05 4 cylinder legacy/OB will be? Will it have AVCS?

    Eric
  • wsag26wsag26 Posts: 124
    245 hp is fast enough. The only problem is WHO IS GOING TO BUY IT? Yes people are going to buy it, I LOVE IT as a matter of fact, but I mean can Subaru really reach out to enough people.
    I HOPE SO
  • I have yet to see anybody talk about pricing for the new models...

    My two cents: I hope it is on par with the current range of Subaru vehicles, the sharp angular lines of the new body and interior better not equate to sharp angular increases in price. I want to buy the new Outback for the same, of a few hundred dollars more than my 03.

    :end two cents...
  • No one is talking about pricing because Subaru has not priced these models and won't until right before they come out. That is many, many months from now.
  • I was walking the neighborhood before church Sunday (skipping Sunday school) and toured the lot at the local Audi/VW/Mitsu/Isuzu/ Porsche/ Buick dealer. They have a W8 Passat Wagon, 6MT, $40K! A really pretty car, but for several months of patience, I will be able to get a Legacy GT wagon that should outperform that already-obsolete W8 in every category,especially reliability, and keep $10K ( hoping ) in my pocket.
    Mark
  • The WRXsti w/ v4 gets 300hp and the new '05 Legacy v6 get about 250hp? I know we could reflash the ECU just to get up to 280hp but not everyone knows about it, especially not the car enthusiasm. We should get at least 280 like the Japanese version.

    Another thing, Subaru needs a "CONVERTIBLE" and what better time to have one for the new Legacy.
    2 doors, 4 seats (hardtop?)convertible Legacy. Subaru doesn't have any models that is topless and it's time that they have a high end car. I'm still likely to get the Legacy but I'm so there if it's convertible(uhuh drooling).

    More HP & a convertable, can I get a Amen or a 2nd to that! oh, yeah the cd player should play mp3 too. I had contact (hope it's the right contact) Subaru about these items and if you agree what you read, then let your voice be counted.
    http://www.subaru.com/contact/contact/middle.jsp
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, give us a Legacy drop-top to compete with the upcoming Solara convertible, due in the spring. All-season top-down fun, and it'll beat the Toy's 225hp easily.

    But...it would weigh a LOT with a hard top. Soft top is OK with me.

    -juice
  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    Be careful here. Subaru tried to remake itself and move out of the AWD utility vehicle niche and into the mainstream to compete against Toyota, Nissan, and Honda back in the early 90's. Remember the SVX? They moved North right when the market moved South and completely lost their roots. The company came within an eyelash of going backrupt. They saved it by returning to their AWD roots with vehicles like the Outback.

    You don't want to screw with your company's image too much. Subaru is known for producing cars that are solid, have excellent value, and offer a lot of utility. Onto this, they've grafted a funky kind of sportiness with cars like the WRX, STi, and Forester XT using Lance Armstrong and their rallying experience. But they don't want to stray too far from their foundation. I think convertibles and 300-hp Legacy's are straying way too far.

    - Mark
  • Changes could be either good or bad. Depends on a lot of things. What Subaru did in the early '90s was taking something away(AWD), they weren't adding anything to their vechicles. The only reason they sold any cars in the 90's was their AWD, people bought but not because of their looks. So they couldn't compete w/ Toyota, Nissan, and Hondas.

    Corvette almost stopped production in the '90s until they took a chance on the now big curve on the back of the vette. boom! success.

    300hp WRX, success. Lot of people want one. I know a guy who's gonna trade his Mercede for a STI. Even I at one point wanted to trade my Mitsubishi 3000 VR4 spyder for a sti, until I came across the new '05 Legacy.

    Convertible, how can you go wrong with topless.? It would look great in the new '05 style. If a 300hp convertible Legacy were to go on production, you still would have a choice of getting a slower non-convertible version. Just an option for car addicts.

    "steppin' forward, not backward"
  • Sorry, I have to agree with markjenn here. That convertible could COST Subaru many loyal Subie fans, who then would go buy Jeeps and the like.

    Subaru is about many things: AWD, reliability, simplicity, used to be about inexpensive (but that is less so lately).

    It is not about sporty convertibles any more than Porsche is about SUV's (and you can see how well THAT is working...)
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    into a more upscale and sporty brand, as witnessed by their latest products. I'm sure when the all-new Legacy and Outback arrive next spring, the marketing will reflect this.

    Bob
  • There's just not enough volume in convertibles, especially in markets where Subaru is geographically strongest. New Englanders generally don't buy convertibles. I don't think the convertible market is that strong even in the I-95 metro corridor. Subaru is a niche player and that's fine. You don't need to be all things to all people if that means losing focus on your core competencies.
  • I think that more people would buy Subaru convertables or other higher class cars along the lines of Accord, Solara etc than Baja's....

    Just because Subaru branches out into a performance/luxury category does not mean people will buy Jeeps. Keep the Outback, hurry along with the 7 passenger version, and give those in their mid-life crisis an AWD, fast, sleek convertable Solara, oops... I mean Subaru, Solara isn't there with the AWD yet...

    And for the love of the invisible man in the sky, a six speed manual is due with the H6.
  • When small, niche manufacturers attempt to be all things to all people, or too many things to too many people, the core market gives up on them and they lose their focus.

    See, for instance, Mazda during the mid 1990's.
  • A big advantage of keeping a solid steel roof is structural strength. Subaru goes to great lengths to maintain solid vehicles (reinforcement rings, passenger area cage, etc.). I feel they compromised a little by selling only sunroof equipped Legacys in MY2004.
    If Subaru put a lot of effort into a drop-top, it would be very costly and would never be as solid as the cars they sell today.
    If Subaru wants to address that niche market, I hope they don't roll the R & D costs into their main product line.

    -gearhead4
  • see above. seems the like the answer to everyone's prayer. a ragtop, all-wheel drive, hybrid made by subaru.
  • I personally could see a 2-door coupe, but not a convertible on the Legacy chassis. They are very proud of their safety levels and that highlights all the more the significance the safety ring plays. A coupe would allow them to still use a full safety ring though slightly modified for a coupe door config.

    As said, the market density being greatest in inclement weather states and those states particularly not as fond of convertibles in an already saturated market would just not be an upside for Subaru to look at a ragtop. Not to mention AWD for inclement conditions and ragtop being for sunny days, isn't that an oxymoron? I just can't see this happening. Well, then again, they did try the Baja.

    And as for the comment of this being as unlikely as a 300hp Legacy, I'd have to disagree to a certain extent with that. We may see an STi Legacy within a couple years after latching onto the new Legacy turbo.
  • I have seen pictures of the 2005 Outback with and without a square light on the side of the car. Does anyone know if this light is truly going to be on the car.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
  • Do you mean in front of the driver's door? If so, it is required in Europe. It may or may not make the trip to North America.
  • In regards to there being 245hp in the Euro version, don't worry. Bob's link shows that the 2.5 there is just now going up to 165PS, not hp. Their WRX is only 225hp/217PS to boot. I don't know the reason for the difference, but there is precedent for US getting slightly higher hp than Europe for the same engine offered.

    On gearing, the 4.444 final will be too high revving for highway speeds/fuel economy. That is why I thought from the beginning that US needs the 4.444 final but a 6MT. The Forester would be great if it just had an extra gear on top for the highway. How's that for pleasing everybody? Now it looks like there is a decent possibility of getting the 6 on the Legacy.

    Rangner, the 4 cylinder Outback should be the same as in the base Legacy. The information we have now is that it will probably remain SOHC but will likely have AVCS mainly to improve fuel economy while bumping hp up to maybe 170hp. Count on equal number for ft-lbs whatever the hp ends up being.

    Sebberry, there is a thread about pricing. Look and post in there. Nothing official, but some have looked around and tried to think of what reasonable prices would be. This has been thought about plenty. In short, several of us believe that the base GT sedan will start $26,000 and no more than $27,000. Premium options would be added onto that going up to $30-31k. I'm sure there is disagreement, so feel free to counter on the pricing thread.

    A convertible? Where is the LOL smiley? No way, no how. Coupe, yes. Maybe even a sports car. Convertible, no. I think others have made the point enough.

    Markjenn, I don't think that the demise of the SVX didn't have anything to do with moving away from utility vehicles unless the excuse is that they didn't know what they were doing. I'll give you that. Go from practicality to almost unuseable windows. They took a big leap upscale and hadn't built up to it at all. On top of that, it offered no manual tranny, the auto it came with sucked, and its performance was mediocre given it's heavy weight.

    Subaru can/needs to keep its utility image, but it needs the performance image as well that the WRX is helping with. High performance can "excuse" sub-par fuel economy of Subaru, whereas it becomes unacceptable in mediocre performance.

    Cars aside, there are two things that severely damage the image of Subaru in the US. #1- the dealerships. Kia dealerships look better than Subaru! I'm guessing it's because Kia is new to the US (relatively), and Subaru dealers have been around for decades. Whatever the case, remodel the facilities and step up the professionalism of your staff! #2- advertising. The overall image needs to move upscale on all models, and I don't think that this can be achieved using Lance. I'm probably about the only person who wishes he wasn't a spokesperson, but I don't think Subaru needs a PERSON for their ads. Look at the Japanese Legacy ads. Very elegant. For an example, Hyundai has done a good job IMO of good advertising that makes their cars look more upsale than they are. Subaru is so much better than Hyundai, but Hyundai has been more aggressive about improving their image. The pre-Lance WRX ads were the best (other than having two kids for Radar Love). Paul Hogan was appropriate for associating Outback to Subaru, but he did absolutely zero for the other models. A lesbian tennis player and the best cyclist (athlete?) in the world doesn't have anything to do with the cars no matter what tagline you try to put with it. I am so afraid to see the flash screen, cheap looking, Lance ads for the new Legacy. Common people see this and the dealerships much more than they read who "wins" a car review. Driven by what's inside = She's got a nice personality. Thumbs down. rsholland, as a graphic designer, do you think that Lance can be used in a more formal way for the Legacy?
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