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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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Comments

  • Very good point.

     

    I am impressed with the new Avalon will have a 3.5L, 280-HP engine. But the new GS300 will have a 3.)L and 245-HP engine. Hmmm,.....

     

    I'm lost.

     

    I look forward to seeing the new Avalon.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There's been a lot of talk for months and months about what Toyota is thinking using its new 3.5L on Avalon and Lexus IS and using a smaller, less powerful 3.0L in GS300. The truth is nobody but Toyota knows whats really going on. Toyota may be waiting for the '07 model year to introduce GS350 in the United States, after it has introduced its new V8 here. In other parts of the world, they dont offer a V8, so they are going ahead with GS350 right away. Thats the only theory that makes any sense to me.

     

    Toyota has trademarked GS350 and GS460, so eventually those cars should appear here. My guess is that means the '07 LS will be LS460. There's been talk about an LS500, but I dont understand why Lexus would have two different V8s when they've never done that before.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    I don't think the Avalon will be able to run circles around the GS. Note how the Avalon is still FWD, 5 speed slushbox and its a bigger car.
  • I believe that the LS500 is a hybrid. Just as the RX400h has the 3.3L gas engine plus the battery power.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    boomsama is correct, unless Toyota decides to MASSIVELY change the Avalon, its not going to run circles around anybody.

     

    00boxsters, there is a new Lexus V8 coming to replace the 4.3L, which is actually even older than their 3.3L V6. Nobody is sure of the exact displacement yet though.
  • Thanks lexusguy but I was trying to demonstrate that the LS500 or whatever new LS designation may not reflect how many liters the new engine has like the RX400h.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    Since there is so much talk about there being a new 4.6L V8, the LS500 could be a 4.6L with the electric engine as a hybrid then.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    According to the patent filing, there is the 4.5H (hybrid) which is V8 gas + battery, and the 4.6 (gas only) engine. So I believe the LS500 will be a 5L V8 gas-only engine.

     

    Seems like Lexus wants to make a HUGE statement with the next LS in MY2007. We'll see what tricks they pull out of their bag on this car. The GS engine remains a mystery tho'. Couldn't make it to the SD auto show today, but plan to make it this weekend.
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Posts: 326
    As some have suggested, maybe Lexus did not want to introduce the 3.5L engine in the GS now because it's too close in power to the 430 and might draw sales from that. When they introduce the GS460 or whatever, then they would be free to bring in the 350 because it would lag significantly behind the larger engine. Perhaps that's their thinking. If so, however, it means that for a time there will be a definite imbalance in the Toyota/Lexus lineup with the lower cost (and prestige) Avalon and IS with bigger engines than their big brother.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    That imbalance has sort of existed already for awhile. The current 3.3L engine, even though it is derived from an old motor, is much more advanced and modern than the ancient 3.0L inline in the current IS and GS300, and it makes more hp too, though not much.
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Posts: 326
    For those who have waited patiently for the new GS300 and want to buy one, is it possible that that 3.0 V-6 engine is a one-year lame duck, to be replaced as early as next year with the 3.5? Hmmm. Besides less than stellar acceleration, what will that do to the resale value of this "transitional" model?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'd say thats definitely a possibility. The 530i is kind of a lame duck as well considering the new engine is due very soon too isnt it? That doesnt seem to have hurt it too badly.
  • How does Lexus come out of this possible deception smelling like a rose if not releasing the 3.5L GS in March? Particularly with articles and pictures showing the Lexus brass standing in front of GS350s.

     

    If they just came out with the 3.0L with respectable specs then it would suffice maybe. However if they came out with the 3.0L for the true loyalists and preorders and in a year upgraded the engine to 3.5Ls then they would smell like crap. Folks would not soon forget.

     

    Because of the 3.5L Acura, Mercedes and BMW, Lexus has nowhere to go but 3.5L in March the way I see it. We are all concerned/suspect because of the actual cars with GS300 tags showing up though at shows and a dealership in CA. I just cannot see such a thoughtful company disappointing with a 3.0L in March.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Keep in mind that the LS430 hardly leads the world with displacement and horsepower, but Lexus is having no trouble with sales. Also, BMW has added around 250hp to their 3.0L, but they are not increasing displacement. Audi's new engine is also only 3.1L (badged as 3.2)

     

    So, if the car does show up here in the states as GS300, which I believe it will, it will be competitive power wise with 530i, A6 3.2, and STS, but down on power compared to E350, M35, and RL. Traditionally, competitive but not class leading power has been good enough for Lexus, the company has never felt they need to get into a war with Nissan and Honda. I think Lexus should go straight to GS350 in ALL parts of the world, but that may not be what their plans are.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I still habor a sneaky feeling that Lexus will instead debut the next GS with the 3.5L. It will make the most sense, imo. It will be preposterous to have an IS350, an ES330 and have a GS300 !!! Just doesn't make too much sense to me. I am on my way to the auto show. I will be definitely interested to find out anything to shed light on this GS engine snafu !!!
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Posts: 326
    I can't see Lexus pulling some kind of magician's stunt and pulling a surprise 3.5L out of the hat after they had promised a 3.0. I don't think car manufacturers do things like that. Much more likely, in my view, is a later introduction of the 3.5.

     

    Lexusguy, the 530 situation is somewhat similar but this is the second year for that same engine in the redesigned model, so buyers haven't gotten the feeling that the current engine was just a temporary plug. And that engine was standard on the previous model for years. Also they are giving advance warning about the new replacement engine.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    the D.C. autoshow. I spoke to the Lexus rep at some length about the 3L vs. 3.5L issue and he said that the car is definitely going to debut with the 3L/245hp engine (with the 4.3L as an option). I asked what he thought about being at a disadvantage vs. his competitors with 3.5L engines and he said that it would be an issue and that "many" people had mentioned it to him. The car did look very good - I liked it better than any of its competitors except the M35/45 which I thought was about a draw in terms of styling. All of that said, I don't want a V8, but would hesitate to buy the GS given that it will arrive with the 3L and then almost certainly change out to the 3.5L in for the 07 model year. Frankly, I think that Lexus was crazy to offer this car with the 3L to start in the U.S. market and should have just made the 3.5L standard.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I assume the rep had no info on when the 3.5L would take over?
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    No, he did not have any specific date, but said that a 3.5L would be coming. If Lexus has the engine ready, it would seem odd if they did not get in out as soon as possible given that the competition already would be there. I doubt that they would change in the middle of a model year, so given that the "06" will be out for about a year and a half before the "07's" debut, that would seem like a good time to bring out the new motor - just wish they were doing it from the start.
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