Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5

robyneil

Thanks smaria. I know I read this somewhere but couldn't remember where. It was at the CR pickup checklist page right?

http://www.consumerreports.org/content/news/wheeling/worksheets/pickup_car_inspection_tabl- e.html

I jotted down some of it the day we picked up the 5. I just wish there was a definite rule or formula to determine whether a demonstrator is still considered new or eligible for discounts. It's still kind of vague to me

bjerry

jotted down some of it the day we picked up the 5. I just wish there was a definite rule or formula to determine whether a demonstrator is still considered new or eligible for discounts. It's still kind of vague to me

If there's more than a few miles on the vehicle, you could ask for an accounting. I knew when I picked up my 5 who put miles on the car and why. If you think the car was used extensively by a salesperson as a loaner, ask for the discount.

Don't be afraid to walk away from any deal where you're not getting clear answers to your questions and concerns.

coaster

This is an update on my test drives which are now complete. In addition to the Mazda 5 and Murano, I test drove the Lexus RX330, Subaru Tribeca and Subaru Forester. I wrote off the Lexus immediately because the handling is sloppy and the ride isolates you too much from the road even though it is smooth. The Subaru Tribeca is quite luxurious and at least $10,000 less than the Lexus comparably equipped. Furthermore Subarus have an excellent reliability record but I found the car to be a series of compromises in ride, handling and power. I guess I wanted to be bowled over and that just didn't happen even though the interior is quite spectacular. The Forester was similar to a Honda Civic - a lot of road noise and jouncy ride and cramped second row.. That leaves the Murano and the M5. The Murano was a little stiff in its ride but there was a feeling of control in the driving experience and the seats were the most comfortable. Also it offered the most choice of equipment. The problem is that options are all packaged together. I definitely wanted the stability control, for instance, which is packaged with other handling goodies. But to get this package I had to buy three other packages that I did not want including leather seats, memory seats, etc. So, instead of purchasing an $800. package I would have to buy over $4000. worth of options. And, as I said in an earlier post, on the particular car that I test drove the A/C did not get remotely cold.
That leaves the Mazda 5 which offers so much for the money. True, several niceties are missing which may be offered in future models such as armrests for front passenger and second row (outside armrests) and a lighter interior color as well as a stronger engine.
But it really had the most satifactory ride in that it always had a flat, planted feel that gave the driver confidence. Even over heavy tar strips the ride stayed composed and comfortable. I guess I'll have to have a serious talk with my dealer about ordering a
whitewater pearl Touring model. And, I even have an eye towards trading up to the
CX-7 next year since Mazda just seems to provide the best driving experience.

Claires

Folks, there's a Forum for you to discuss your pricing and buying experiences here:

Mazda5: Prices Paid & Buying Experience

Since this topic is devoted to discussion of features. attributes, owner experience, etc., your buying experience posts are more at home in the other discussion. Thanks.

rrratina

Hang in there everyone-I am ALMOST ready to make a purchase. I am just a bit hesitant to sign before I see a car not coming from the factory.

Here's my scenario:
I want a touring 5 spd, which a local dealer has to get from a dealer 100 miles away. They want me to sign the deal prior to doing the trade. I advised I am not willing to do so. They said I could leave a deposit but will not commit to a refundable deposit. I am not willing to leave a deposit without the dealer putting in writing it is refundable. Also-what happens if one pays for a car up front and it arrives blemished; crashed; etc?

I thought dealers could trade cars without any hassle-though I am uncertain. Can anyone enlighten me. Am I on the right track here? I know when we order from factory we obviously make the deal up front.

I could just drive to the city 100 miles away and make my deal there, though I would pay a little more in tax and more in doc fees. The quotes are within a couple hundred of each other.

I welcome your thoughts. This process pretty much has exhausted me and I just want it over. I think I am completely avoiding going to the dealer, as I just cannot have faith it will be a painless process!
Wendy

rlawrence

rrratina,

What state are you in? For instance, if you are in California, your sales tax is determined by where YOU live and not where the dealer is physically located. Personally, I would just contact the dealer where the car is coming from and get it directly from them if that is the one you want.

~rl

rrratina

Hi there-

Yes-I just contacted the dealer in Phx who has the car. I am in Tucson. Phx has a slightly higher tax rate than we do here and the dealers charge a higher doc fee, so in the end, it doesn't seem more economical to go there...but I just don't want to pay for car before seeing it.

coaster

I am working with the dealer in Tucson and so far the experience for buying the 5 has been excellent. Perhaps you have the wrong salesman. Contact me if you have any questions.

rrratina

Coaster-would love to bend your ear.....I actually want a platinum silver 5 spd touring without navigation. There doesn't seem to be one in Az. I found one in ca but husband doesn't like the emissions equipment. So I am settling for another color, unless I decide to order from factory, which I will do, but not preferred.

It is good to hear your epxerience is going well. Should the dealer be asking me to sign the deal before bringing the trade from Phx? They won't even confirm if they will designate my deposit refundable. I am not inclined to deal in this way. The actual guy I have been working with went on vacation this week. How dare he! They seem to be working with me other than what I have written. ARGH

Would like to hear about your experience. Are you able to email me at your convenience?

Thank you in advance.

robyneil

Sorry might be wrong thread/forum to post this but...

[Contract]
From my experience ordering a 5 through dealer trade, it's not a good idea to sign the deal before seeing the vehicle. You might be signing for a 5 with a specified VIN# but may not be the car you're expecting...missing options, wrong color, a demo, or basically a lemon. The actual option/purchase contract I signed only had a VIN#,year,model to identify the vehicle. There's no mention of accessories, color, and options included. You need to check and test the vehicle before signing anything.

[Deposit]
According to this site, you're entitled to get your deposit back but they might still win if you decide to cancel when they didn't promise that it was refundable:

http://beatthecarsalesman.com/mailbag22.html

So it's always best to get something in writing about the refundable deposit if they cannot deliver the car you specified VIN#, color, options, delivery date, etc... If they won't give you a refundable deposit in writing and signed, just walk away and find another dealer willing to work with you.

bodina

Test drove the Mazda 5 last night but now I don't recall how many AC/DC Outlets there were and their location. Can anyone shed some light on that for me, please? Thanks - Bo

bjerry

Test drove the Mazda 5 last night but now I don't recall how many AC/DC Outlets there were and their location. Can anyone shed some light on that for me, please? Thanks - Bo

There's one up front on the center console, and one all the way in the back on the driver's side near the back hatch.

rorr

"There's one up front on the center console, and one all the way in the back on the driver's side near the back hatch."

Are these standard 12v outlets or 110v outlets (AC/DC) as bodina called them???

mactavish1

Hi, I did't get the details on the GT model, but it should be around the same difference (at least 1300) Did I mention that I got 500 of the MSRP no problem, I then got them to up the value of my trade in more than I expected.

I spoke to my dealer yesterday as the GS's have just arrived of the rails in Toronto, should get it this weekend or Monday.

Can't wait. My trade in is on it's last legs for some components and I'm hoping that nothing happens in the next few days !

rlawrence

"I actually want a platinum silver 5 spd touring without navigation. There doesn't seem to be one in Az. I found one in ca but husband doesn't like the emissions equipment."

You found a 5 speed platinum silver touring without nav in California? Do you recall what dealer? Thus far I have found only one, in red.

rlawrence

Yet another positive review of our beloved Mazda5

Auto123.com

once_for_all

sounds like me at 6'3" will be a no-go.

John

bigdaddycoats

to look this up - does the Mazda5 require premium?

bigdaddycoats

Sit in/drive one before you rule it out. I am 6'4" and I fit comfortably in one and it even had a sunroof.

bigdaddycoats

I stopped by the local Mazda dealer and noticed they had 4 Mazda5s that just arrived.

I had a brief test drive of a touring/auto/nav model.

I really, really liked this vehicle!

The interior reminded me of the great set up found in the Mazda3. Very nicely done, with excellent fit, finish and quality materials. Seats seemed very comfortable. Excellent steering wheel feel. Nav is very cool, although I doubt I would want to spend the $2k for it.

The ride was very well controlled with a sporty feel. Did not feel like I was driving a wagon/van. Even with the auto and the air running the engine pulled just fine. Turning radius was very small - should be very easy to maneuver.

I would like to drive one with a manual to see what it is like. This vehicle is definately in the running for our next family hauler.

rrratina

Hmmm.....I just checked Mazda's website and did an inventory search. It seems the platinum silver manual touring without nav isn't there-I found it earlier this week or late last week-I even told a salesman about it and inquired as to possibly getting it. Maybe it sold? There is one with nav at the El Cajon dealership. But you probably already checked this. Sorry for the error. I thought I had seen it but I sit here late at night until my eyes are bugged and read these posts and research the Mazda. Maybe I was dreaming!

Update on my ever-so-close purchase: I called the dealer today and advised them I am NOT going to pay up front nor would I leave a deposit. I asked them to get the vehicle and bring it here and they balked a bit but then acquiesced. The salesman made a comment about how do they know I won't back out and not take it. I reminded him he needs to trust me like I need to trust him (that's an oxymoron)! So, hopefully, I can close this deal tomorrow and post as a new owner!!!

Thanks to all for your input!

audia8q

....advised them I am NOT going to pay up front nor would I leave a deposit. I asked them to get the vehicle and bring it here and they balked.

I think this could be considered an unreasonable request.. They have to go out and write a check and buy the car from the other dealer plus give up a car in stock. This goes beyond trust.. Your essentially asking them to spend $20,000 and give up potential revenue of the swap car on a maybe. Would you spend $20,000+ on a maybe? Of course if your an established previous customer I would look at this differently.

ateixeira

I believe it takes regular.

The new MX-5 will get a highly tuned version of the 2.0l that takes premium fuel, but the 2.0l and 2.3l units in the Mazda3 take regular.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

-juice

once_for_all

I realize that you are in the business, but I think a dealer should understand that this is a potential marketing cost that may or may not bear fruit.

My own view is that if I can't drive it and check it out, I don't buy it. I had my local Mazda dealer "find" me an MPV on the coast that had been sitting 6 months in storage with 200 miles on it (no room on their lot, so they said). I politely stated my policy as no see, no buy. I don't ask dealers to go out and find me a vehicle, and I don't think it is fair to ask a dealer to risk dollars on bringing one in. It really gets back to the dealer's decision to risk the money, IMO. I personally would feel guilty if the dealer went to the cost and effort to bring in a vehicle, and then for some reason I didn't want it. And, there are lots of reasons I wouldn't buy it--for example a rough idle, hard shifting, steering pulls one way or another, etc. Yeah, this can be fixed, but I am buying a new car that should be right, not a fixed new car.

John

jbollt

I don't believe this is unreasonable request...after all, the dealer is in the business of selling cars. If this customer doesn't like the car brought in from the other dealer, they can sell it to the next guy. I doubt they will have it in inventory for more than a couple fo weeks, at the outside. However, the buyer will have to live with the car probably for a minimum of 3 years. If he/she doesn't like it when it arrives, he will certainly not like it any more a year or 2 down the line.

and write a check for $20,000? Perhaps if the one dealer was actually BUYING the car from the other dealer, but i believe it was a dealer trade...probably only a slight difference in invoice is adjusted by check between the dealers, certainly not $20,000.

just MHO

audia8q

jbollt....When we do a dealer swap we actually write the check to the other dealer for the invoice price of the car. The original dealer keeps the holdback. So now the dealer has a car on the lot with a higher cost factor than the non-swap cars...additionally it affect my allocation for future orders. The way that mazda's allocation system works it takes into play days in inventory and days supply per car line, so bringing in an extra car can hurts my next months allocation....so now my allocation is off and I own a car for $400 more than similar vehicles if the guy doesnt buy it...

once for all.....I understand the reasoning for buying a car you can see and feel..I don't have a problem with that. Sometimes we just can't come to agreement with the customer. Ocassionally I bring in a car without a deposit but its the exception not the rule.

jbollt

"When we do a dealer swap we actually write the check to the other dealer for the invoice price of the car"

And, I would assume that the other dealer writes YOU a check for the car you are trading to them? Right? And you keep the holdback on the car that you sent them. Sounds fair to me

To stay on topic, I hope to drive a M5 this weekend, My son loves his 3 he has had about 3 months...

robyneil

But I believe the issue here is the dealer wasn't being fair to rrratina. He/She is using his/her common sense.

The dealer wanted her to sign a binding purchase contract immediately for a car she hasn't seen or tested yet. That is really fishy. Second, the dealer wouldn't promise that they will return the deposit if the vehicle he/she ordered is not up to specs nor sign anything that the deposit is refundable. He/She did the right thing to protect himself/herself and I'm glad he/she didn't get pressured. The dealer should have at least gave him/her a signed promise that he/she will get his/her deposit back if they gave her a car with a different VIN, with different specs, or with a different negotiated price. Now that is fair between rrratina and the dealer.

rorr

You're making the assumption there was an actual SWAP involving two cars. What makes you think that all dealer 'swaps' work that way? What are the odds that when dealer 'A' wants to get a car from dealer 'B', there will also be a car in dealer 'A's inventory to 'swap'?

gordonr

Anyone know if Mazda is planning on offering this as an option on US models? I seem to remember seeing some info that the Mazda 5 in some other parts of the world have this feature available (maybe it was the UK?). I only buy a new vehicle every 12 to 14 years, and certainly desire this feature on my next car. Other than that, the Mazda 5 seems like a very nice package. Test drove one, and was very impressed.

jbollt

rorr, valid point..i was making that assumption.

rlawrence

"Hmmm.....I just checked Mazda's website and did an inventory search. It seems the platinum silver manual touring without nav isn't there-I found it earlier this week or late last week-I even told a salesman about it and inquired as to possibly getting it."

You could be right. However, I decided to go with the one cardinal red manual touring and no nav that is at a dealer in the Mission Valley area of San Diego. I just did the whole deal over the phone and I will pick it up Sunday morning.

Like you, I am about 100 miles from the dealer. Personally, if you don't like the tactics the dealer in your area is displaying, I would go to another dealer nearby to see if they will guarantee to return your deposit if you don't like the car, or better yet, just make the drive up to the dealer in Phoenix and get the car from them (I know you said previously that sales tax is higher in Phoenix/Maricopa County, but I would check with your local DMV to see if sales tax is based on where the buyer resides and not where the buyer makes the transaction).

Besides, you aren't married to any dealer, and obviously you have done most of the legwork (or finger work) yourself, so you owe no one anything.

rrratina

Agreed!

I feel I did the right thing. As it turns out-newsflash-they "said" they went up to Phoenix and the car I wanted wasn't there. So, the ole' bait and switch is on. Of course, the dealer offered me the ONLY 5 spd they have on the lot which happens to be an additional $2000.00 for NAV. I told them if they want to throw it in I'll take it, otherwise, no deal! They actually gave me an offer below invoice. One would say this is great deal; however, if one doesn't need, much less, desire the NAV, this is simply a sales tactic to sell a car form their OWN inventory, as mentioned earlier. The good thing for me is I can say NO! I will eventually get my M5-perhaps not from their lot.
(I did call the other dealer to confirm the car I wanted was gone-which it was.)

I personally believe it is time for a reform on the way vehicles are sold in this country. People need to wake up and STOP accepting dealer's terms. For example I emailed a dealer the other night requesting a quote. I received a reply which stated the dealer does not offer quotes over the phone or email. I politely responded thanking the dealer for his time, advised him others do communicate via email, and someone else will get my business. They promptly called me offering me a car at invoice.

I wouldn't purchase a home sight unseen, much less without an inspection. I might purchase clothing or shoes without trying them on (say I bought them online), but I would have the option of returning them if they didn't fit or I didn't like them. We don;t have that option when purchasing a new vehicle. I believe WHOLEHEARTEDLY I did the right thing and the dealer is not to be trusted! To have a customer sign a contract without inspecting, seeing, verifying, etc the product is risky for the customer. I have heard too many horror stories to think otherwise.

Good idea-I will check on the sales tax requirement-thanks!

My fifty cents.

P.S. Still in the hunt for the right M5!

gee35coupe

It depends on how long your legs are and the way you like to drive.

The reason I didn't fit was that I like to drive with the seat at its highest position and my legs wouldn't allow me to have the seat adjusted that way. The center console was preventing me from reaching the throttle. I have the same problem in the 3.

momstoy

"There's one up front on the center console, and one all the way in the back on the driver's side near the back hatch."

"Are these standard 12v outlets or 110v outlets (AC/DC) as bodina called them??? "

They are standard 12v outlets

whipped95

I just bought a Mazda5 from a dealer that did a swap. I was told they would pull the vehicle that you want from another Mazda dealership and will give that dealership a similar vehicle of their choice. In this case I wanted a Carbon gray Touring w/ 5speed and nav. I do not know if there was any extra cost incurred, but the other dealership was only 70 miles away.

bobw3

Can any of you new owners take some photos with adults inside the 5 to give perspective.

mgata1213

The concept of a "mini-minivan" is very intriguing to me although I know it is not a new concept, I have seen this type of vehicles in Europe quite often.
Ok, first impressions:
The dealer had about 5-6 or them and they are not in a hurry to show them or push them for sale. They got them about 3 weeks ago and still had the plastic foil on the hood. I drove a sport-base model with a/t and some sort of other package which included side-sills extensions, sunroof ( don't care for either) and 6 cd-changer. The interior layout is very nice, seems very spacious and the rear seats fold and make a flat surface. The second row don't, and I am not sure if they can be removed, but I don't think so.
The car was peppy off the line and it revs quickly to 4000 rpm without even noticing. I am very worried about the A/C problems with Mazda since this car is based pretty much on the M3; last time I checked I am not sure if they fixed that. The A/C seemed to worked pretty good, if not excellent and it was really hot outside ( about 93F). I did find it a little amusing when the sales lady said " well let me bring the car up-front and let it cool down a bit."
Of course, as expected, no sales person has heard about Mazda's A/C problem.
Anyway, this one seemed ok like I said and it was 93 F outside with the sun blazing. The interior seems very functional but materials seem a bit cheap...not on par with Honda or Toyota, but just as good as Nissan and may be a bit better than Mitsubishi. Even my wife, who knows nothing about cars, observed that. Anyway, I was impressed with the way the car drove, handled and with the package overall. This car is on a very short list for me, but the list is very tough and it includes the CRV so now I am waiting for about 4-5 months before I make a decision. I need to see how the Mazda performs in crash tests and what problem are surfacing since this is first year of production in USA.

pagetuner

Note that second row seats do indeed fold (seat cushions forward and up, then seatbacks forward and down) without even removing headrests as required in some other cars, for flat load surface from hatch to front seat-backs. The other nice aspect of three-row seating is that the second row seat-backs recline, unlike those in sedans.

bobw3

What else is on your short list and what is your price range?

mgata1213

The CRV is my other choice, although I know it doesn't have the extra space I like ( don't necessarily need the extra space, but it would be nice to have). I drive an older CRV ( 2001) and I am sold on their reliability and quality. I have 75,000 miles and I just changed the oil every 7000 miles ( Mobil 1 synthetic) and the air filter, that's all....no other work done on it.
I am also not looking to spend more than $19,000. Both cars fall into this category. I saw an M3 with navi yesterday. The navi it wasn't as nice as the Nissan's...it doesn't have that 3D capability...it's hard to explain...but 3D is the closest thing I can think of. Plus I don't want to get into $22,000-23,000 territory because I would get dangerously close to the price of the LX Honda Oddy. If I could get the M3, for about 18,500 or less....now, that's a deal.

gordonr

I'm also considering the CR-V and the Mazda 5. I've test driven both, and find both to be well designed vehicles. Although they are very different vehicles, it is an interesting comparison. Some points of difference I've considered are...

1) The height and step in/out easy of the vehicles are extremely different. Although the CR-V is hardly a tall SUV, it's still a step up vs. the Mazda 5 which is sedan-like in terms of entry and exit. Not being a lover of SUV's, I see this as a win for the Mazda.

2) There is an interesting trade-off in the M5 2-2-2 seating configuration vs a standard 2-3 in the CR-V. The 2nd row of the CR-V seems fairly roomy, and can hold 3 in pretty good comfort. The flat floor and open space between the front seats of the CR-V really helps here. Fully loaded with 5 people, you still have an ample cargo area available. With the M5 you are forced to use the 3rd row with the 5th person. This significantly cuts your available cargo space to much less than the CR-V. Of course, the M5 can hold 6 which the CR-V can't. However with 6, you basically don't have any cargo space so it's valve is limited to local shuttle type trips without stuff. My other concern with the M5 is the safety of 3rd row passengers. There is only a couple of inches of "crumple zone" between a 3rd row passenger's head and the tailgate glass. Both vehicles have very good versatility and configurability. When I think about the safety factor of the 3rd row, for me the balance tips towards the CR-V as I ususally only need to carry 4, but once a week we carry 5 and need space for cargo. Also several weekend trips a year do require 5 with a good deal of luggage.

3) The tailgate of the M5 lifts up vs. a swinging door for the CR-V. What is worse is that the CR-V swings so it opens on the driver (i.e. traffic) side if your parallel parked. The CR-V has that awkward spare mounted on the rear tailgate. I much prefer the M5's tail end convenience.

4) The CR-V has a long (and excellent) track record for both reliability, safety and depreciation. The Mazda 5 is an unknown on all accounts.

5) The CR-V can be purchased as a 4wd or 2wd; the M5 is only 2wd. The CR-V has a full complement of safety equipment including vehicle stability control. This safety feature is not available on US M5s.

6) Since the CR-V is a mature vehicle, all sorts of carrying accessories are available. Roof rack attachments from Yakima or Thule are available as well as trailer hitch receivers in both 1 1/4" and 2" from several manufacturers. The M5 doesn't even have factory roof rails at this point. Given it's relatively small sales volumes, it might take up to a year or more for a preliminary accessory market to develop.

7 Fuel economy: CR-V 2wd LX is EPA 23/29 in automatic. CR-V 4wd is 21/26 in manual and 22/27 automatic. The M5 automatic is EPA 21/26 and manual is 22/27. A 4wd CR-V gets about the same fuel economy as the M5.

rlawrence

"Plus I don't want to get into $22,000-23,000 territory because I would get dangerously close to the price of the LX Honda Oddy. If I could get the M3, for about 18,500 or less....now, that's a deal."

First, I am assuming you meant M5, not M3.

While I would want to spend the least amount possible for the most amount of car just like you, I wouldn't care if an M5 were the same price or more than Odyssey (don't get me wrong, I am glad that it isn't) because the two cars are different classes of vehicles. Are people really shopping the M5 against the super-sized minivans? Please say it isn't so!

Yes, I am an unabashed Mazda5 fan-boy.

:P :P :P

mrgary

I notice it seems that some people are not sure what kind of car they want and need help making their choice. You need to make your own mind up as you pay the price both short term and over the long haul. The second thing I notice is that people are very critical of others who want to compare different size, type, style of cars.
If you want to compare an M5 to a Hummer your more than welcome to. What kind of car you buy in the end is great. Me I bought an M5 for the fun of driving it plus MPG and hauling pets and people. I looked at mini vans, sports cars, wagons and SUV's.
Have to admit I even checked Insurance costs. For me and my wife the M5 was our best fit. I will let you know next year if it is really a keeper as Winter can be a big factor over the long haul. Everyone enjoy what ever car you buy and keep on driving .

rlawrence

"The second thing I notice is that people are very critical of others who want to compare different size, type, style of cars.
If you want to compare an M5 to a Hummer your more than welcome to."

If you are speaking to my criticism specifically, you're right, people do have every right to compare any vehicles they want, regardless of class of car. However, you must understand that my concerns stem from people making these types of comparisons, and possibly causing other manufacturers to feel their beliefs have been confirmed that small(er) vehicles have no market in North America in general and the US in particular.

These comparisons could have future ramifications if, for instance, there was a sizable number of buyers who went with the Mazda5 simply because it is less money than the super-sized minivans. In all likelihood, these will people may very well be dissatisfied with their choice, because they went for a car that wasn't really suitable for them, simply because of price. If too many value conscious customers are turned off by the car's compactness, it could mean a dim future for the Mazda5 and like vehicles here in the US.

I cannot speak to other countries, but the prevailing thought in the US generally is that if something is smaller, it had better be considerably cheaper, hence the reason we get shut out of so many of the smaller, cute, fun vehicles that get sold on the other side of the pond. I am just happy Mazda decided to take a slight risk and give us the opportunity to get some versatility in a smaller, sportier package.

So am I being critical of the way some comparisons have been made? Yes. But I am only doing so to make people think about what they are comparing, why they are comparing it, and what value does it bring.

smaria

I am very worried about the A/C problems with Mazda since this car is based pretty much on the M3

The Mazda3 A/C "problem", if there is one, only seems to affect certain vehicles, certainly not ALL of them, and most likely only a very small percentage of them. If you're worried about the Mazda5's A/C: take a test drive in hot weather (it sounds like you did), make sure that you test the A/C in the specific car that you're buying before you make the final purchase, and if it suits your needs then there's nothing to worry about.

I have no complaints about the A/C in my Mazda5. It seems at least as strong if not stronger than the A/C in my Honda Civic.

smaria

The height and step in/out easy of the vehicles are extremely different. Although the CR-V is hardly a tall SUV, it's still a step up vs. the Mazda 5 which is sedan-like in terms of entry and exit.

I LOVE the height of the Mazda5. Stepping in and out of it is really easy for me. At 5'10", I don't feel like I'm stepping "up" into the MAzda5 or "down" into the Mazda5...I'm basically just stepping "in". The seats are at the perfect height for me!

The CR-V can be purchased as a 4wd or 2wd; the M5 is only 2wd. The CR-V has a full complement of safety equipment including vehicle stability control. This safety feature is not available on US M5s.

True. This of course depends on your needs/wants. I was considering the CR-V, but I actually only wanted the 2wd version. The Honda dealer that I went to told me that "pretty much everyone buys AWD CR-V's in NJ, so the 2wd version isn't good for resale". So I was afriad that if I got a CR-V, the dealer might have convinced me to get AWD even though I don't actually want it. So, for me, I was happy that the Mazda5 is only available in the 2wd that I want, strange as that might sound. Also, the CR-V's center of gravity is higher than the Mazda5's...the Mazda5 feels very stable, so when driving it I don't feel like it needs any extra stability control. Some other cars that I test drove (such as the Scion xB) felt like the needed stability control, and I was disappointed that stability control wasn't optional.

Also, to comment on price: I paid about $18500 for my Mazda5. Would have paid about $21000 for an AWD CR-V. That was before the current "Honda Clearance" so I don't know what CR-V's are going for now.

gordonr

"The Honda dealer that I went to told me that "pretty much everyone buys AWD CR-V's in NJ, so the 2wd version isn't good for resale". "

I did a quick check using Edmunds TMV data for my area (MA). I input a 2002 CR-V in "clean" condition w/ 42,000 miles. Certainly the desire and differential resale value of 4wd vs 2wd would be as high in MA as it is in NJ. Reconstructing original MSRP is pretty difficult on used cars, but from what I can tell a 2wd auto CR-V (LX) had an original MSRP of $19,240 w/ freight. The 4wd auto CR-V (LX) went for $20,440. The Edmunds TMV data suggest that a private sale of the 2wd would yield $13,398 today and the 4wd would get you $14,090 for this region. This is 70% of original MSRP for the 2wd and 69% for the 4wd. For all practical purposes they are the same. What is probably true is that few 2wd models are allocated for sales in this region, and the sales guy was just selling what he had available.

Around here you can easily get a CR-V for anywhere between invoice and $500 over invoice. That would put the 2wd auto CR-V at $19,173 to $19,673. The M5 Sport w/ automatic and delivery is $18,895 MSRP ($17,674 inovice). Not sure what kind of "deals" you can get on the M5 around here. The CR-V is still more money upfront.

I only bring up the vehicle stability control feature because it's been recently highlighted as the second most important safety technology for saving lives after the seat belt. From what I read, it's value is less in a sedan/lower vehicle vs. a SUV, but there is still a significant tangible benefit. It may not be for everyone, but I'd like the option of deciding for myself. My guess is that within 10 years or so VSC will be like ABS is today (vs. 15 years ago); almost every car will have it standard. Hopefully in '07 Mazda will add it as an option.

rlawrence

"I only bring up the vehicle stability control feature because it's been recently highlighted as the second most important safety technology for saving lives after the seat belt."

What is your source for this information? And what is the tangible benefit? While VSC might be a nice feature to have, one thing I really like about the M'5 is how simple Mazda has made the choices - especially with the Touring Edition, which means finding a model with the features you want relatively easy.

rorr

"I only bring up the vehicle stability control feature because it's been recently highlighted as the second most important safety technology for saving lives after the seat belt."

What is your source for this information?

This column in Car and Driver is an interesting read:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=9036&page_number=1