Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5

twain

I think the M5 has many things right but not everything. To really separate itself from the larger minivans, it needs better MPG. There's really very little difference between it and an Odyssey or Sienna. If you're going to sacrifice space, you should be rewarded with better MPG.

It's smaller, it handles better, it's more fun to drive but where is the good MPG for economy minded consumers?

If Mazda could get 30mpg hiway out of this vehicle, they'd have a huge hit. Especially now, with gas prices soaring.

once_for_all

apparently getting 30 mpg, even 31 for some. Check out the mileage board.

You won't see many Ody or Siennas getting upper 20's. The Ody has to have VCM to do it and that is a couple thou more, figure a $30k minivan.

$10,000 in your pocket will buy a huge amount of gas even at $3 a gallon.

John

twain

Speaking of AWD, it would be great if Subaru built a small minvan along the lines of the Mazda5 with their AWD system.

I think that would have been a better choice than that Tribeca thing.

jonathanv_00

Heh, as the owner of a Subaru Legacy wagon, looking at one of these... yeah, that's a very true statement. The big drawback of the Mazda 5, for me, is that it doesn't have AWD, as we've gotten quite addicted to it on the Subaru.

Anyway, nice forum, lots of good comments and thoughts on the 5. Saw one in a parking lot in downtown LA today, right after looking at one at a dealership. Nice looking, sensible sized car.

jonathanv_00

Except for not owning an Acura, I could have written this post. Seems many of us are in the exact same position as sonodad and momstoy. Maybe Mazda is on to something.... Anyone know if Nissan is thinking about (re-)introducing one of these?

rlawrence

"I think the M5 has many things right but not everything. To really separate itself from the larger minivans, it needs better MPG. There's really very little difference between it and an Odyssey or Sienna. If you're going to sacrifice space, you should be rewarded with better MPG."

Number one, I don't think there is any such thing as the perfect car, but your sentiments are exactly why US marketers are retisent to bring smaller vehicles over. Because I want something smaller doesn't mean I am making a sacrifice and therefore doesn't mean I need to be compensated somewhere else. I wanted the M'5 because it is versatile, small, and fun to drive. The fact that I am getting 29+ MPG is merely an added advantage. I don't care if Odysseys or Siennas get as good as or greater gas mileage than I do (they don't), since the reason I was not interested in them is because they are full-fledged super-sized minivans. That's not what I wanted. I have been wishing for a Eurostyle MPV for a number of years and finally Mazda had the balls to import one to NA.

Also, keep in mind that Mazda if had used a smaller engine, gas mileage would be increased, but they would have really been dinged on the lack of power issue. Of course the main reason we don't get more engine choices in the first place is because the automakers have little confidence we (here in the United States) will even buy these kinds of cars.

audia8q

When comparing gas mileage most folks don't put a pencil to the numbers. For the avg driver even 5-10 mpg improvement isnt very much savings.

rlawrence

"When comparing gas mileage most folks don't put a pencil to the numbers. For the avg driver even 5-10 mpg improvement isnt very much savings."

I am not quite sure what you mean. Could you explain further, please?

audia8q

All I'm saying is do the math....many people get hysterical that one car gets 30 mpg and the one they really want gets 25.....they rarely run the numbers to see what the real cost difference is to them. It would be great if all cars got better mileage but often the car you or I may want may not be the best in MPG.

the avg driver drives 12,000 miles per year if car A gets 25mpg and car B gets 30 mpg what is the savings per year? it's not a ton of money. Especially if your settling for a car that isnt the one you "really want".

We see folks come in all the time who trade in a car they are upside down by $5000 to buy a car that gets 5 miles per gallon better... They end up costing themselves a more money than they save.

I'm not making any judgments about anything....just suggesting that people buy the car they want and don't settle for the second or third choice to save a small amount of gas mileage. Folks who settle usually trade alot sooner and end up rolling over negative equity starting a whole new problem.

yustas

That is true, gas savings per car, per household don't make much difference. But what about bigger picture? I hear all the time, that improving mileage by 10%, on average, can significantly reduce USA's dependence on the foreign oil... Even if that is half true, I think it is worth an effort to get a little smaller engine for a little (10% ) better mileage. And that is the easiest thing for me to do, without sacrificing much in comfort and safety.

audia8q

good points....Many have noticed that European Mazda's often are available with smaller engines with less hp than the American versions. Do you think most Americans would go for that? IMHO until gas hits $5.00 a gallon many folks won't go for economy over performance....

It was mentioned earlier than the Mazda5 could get better mpg but it may require a smaller, less spirited engine. How many people would be interested in a 115hp version of the 5 if it got 10 mpg better than the current 2.3? how about a diesel version?

mazda6s

"how about a diesel version?"
Geez, I hope not.

Everytime I ride my bike and get behind one of those "oil burners" I nearly choke.

gee35coupe

Using that logic...It's time for me to trade my Si for the G35 I have my eye on.

kyfdx

Correct.... not much difference between 25 mpg and 30 mpg...

However, the difference between 15 mpg and 20 mpg is much larger..

As the MPG numbers get higher, the return on investment diminishes..

regards,
kyfdx

bobw3

To go from 15 to 20 mpg is a 33% increase.
To go from 25 to 30 mpg is a 20% increase.

strager

You're absolutely right. I did a quick calculation, assuming gas is $3/gallon and 1000 miles/month, one would save $30/month going from 20 to 25 mpg.

Incidentally, I had a chance to see the 5 today and my wife absolutely loved it! She said she'd rather buy a 5 than a Lexus RX330, even if they were the same price (and of course she knows the RX330 is twice as much!)), because the 5 is unique, more functional and more fun to drive.

rlawrence

I was out all day and didn't have time to respond, but I just wanted to say that your point was well stated. Of course many Americans have proven themselves to not be too good in the math department. That is why you have imbeciles who try driving 60 MPH on the street and weave in and out of traffic to save less than two minutes, if that. Or driving 85 on the freeway to go five or six miles. Ridiculous.

Fortunately for me I didn't have to make any sacrifices of the kind. In fact, the M'5 is the perfect car for me, except for one little flaw. I don't understand why they chose not to include a trip computer on the Touring model. Sure it's really not necessary, but it's a gadget I like. Believe it or not it's there because the uplevel European model has it and it has the same digital readout as the NA Touring model.

rlawrence

Strager,

Based on what you have told us, your wife is obviously quite an intelligent woman - and I am sure she very beautiful as well. In fact for the price of an RX you could probably buy two M'5's.

anonymousposts

There's more to the difference between the Ody and the Mazda5 than just MPG and price. The Ody is heavier, roomier, and has almost 100 more HP than the Mazda5. Sure there's a price difference but that's like saying you can't understand why a BMW M5 is more than a Spectra sedan. They both have 4 doors and haul 5 people so why spend an extra $40,000?

BTW: My 04 Ody EX-RES is getting 25 MPG in mixed driving. That's nearly identical to the Mazda 5's rating and the Odyssey doesn't need to cruise at 4000 RPM on the highway.

momstoy

Yes, there are alot of differences between and Ody and the 5. We test drove the Ody several times, but when it came down to it, I just couldn't get myself to plunk down $35K (because I wanted NAV I had to go to a really high trim level) just for a transport vehicle for the 4 of us (we have 2 kids). We CAN afford to buy the Ody - but there are several other things that I'd rather spend the extra $$ on. How about a used miata to toss around when I don't have to drive the kids?

Before the 5 I had a '98 Subie Legacy wagon - which was awesome! But, as the kids are getting older - they want friends to come over and I just couldn't accomodate other passengers. I've wanted to get a minivan for at least 3 years - but every time we shopped around - there were several candidates that fit the bill - I just couldn't get excited over them.

Driving my 5spd mazda5 the other day - it occured to me that it was the rightful successor (for us) to the subaru wagon. Peppy drive (which I loved about the subie), very maneuverable, and great on gas. (I got 30mpg mixed driving on my last tank!) AND it didn't break the bank! (even including my NAV!)

strager

For those who own a 5, what kind of gas mileage are you getting for city and freeway driving? I was guessing it would be around 15-16 city, and about 27-30 freeway. My experience with other cars has been that the city mileage is about 30% less than EPA, and freeway mileage is 10% more than EPA.

pagetuner

Have to admit that the Odyssey is attractive and capable, and that Odyssey owner is likely to get a higher percentage of the purchase price back when the van is traded in. Odyssey will never handle as crisply as the Mazda 5, though, and 5's availability with stick shift was a huge factor in my decision.

I was concerned about the engine speed on the highway, as you mention, but it is not obtrusive at all -- car doesn't feel overworked at 80-85mph.

pagetuner
http://pagetuner.com/mazda5/

momstoy

I agree with you, pagetuner. Despite all the posts about the 5 having to be at high RPMs on the highway - in 5th gear I always find plenty of power at the ready for passing at 80-85mph. That car so so maneuverable and responsive!

Also, the 5spd availability was a HUGE factor in deciding to buy the 5. It is so fun to drive!

smaria

Odyssey doesn't need to cruise at 4000 RPM on the highway.

In the Mazda5 AT, 4000 RPMs would be almost 95 miles/hour! The MT has higher RPMs, so maybe it MT cruises at 4000, but not the AT.

smaria

You should check out the "Mazda5 Owners: MPG-Real World Numbers" forum here on Edmunds. Nobody reported tanks that were 100% city driving, or 100% highway, but the reported MPG numbers for full tanks range from 20 to 28 for the AT and 22 to above 30 for the MT...and these are all during the break-in period. I personally haven't done worse than 22 MPG (mostly city) in my AT Mazda5.

bigdaddycoats

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102968

Good 0-60 time.

once_for_all

"how about a diesel version?"
Geez, I hope not.

Everytime I ride my bike and get behind one of those "oil burners" I nearly choke

yustas, if the 5 comes with a clean diesel, you won't even know it if you are behind it.

Times are changing, new diesels rarely smoke and they are often quieter than their gasoline counterparts. It is time to drop the misconceptions.

John

yustas

"It is time to drop the misconceptions. "
Hm.... If I remember correctly, I was advocating diesels, and I don't even have a bike...

mazda6s

"Times are changing, new diesels rarely smoke and they are often quieter than their gasoline counterparts. It is time to drop the misconceptions."

They're not misconceptions. Sure they're cleaner than they used to be, but it's a fact that Diesels produce considerable amounts of particulates even though you can't see the smoke. I have asthma and bike 10 to 12 miles a day. It is time to drop the myth of the "clean" diesel. Ain't gonna happen unless someone finds a way to put a scrubber on the exhaust system. :surprise:

once_for_all

They just aren't required yet. You can bet PMs are on the radar and will be addressed.

John

once_for_all

sorry my bad.

John

erics6

Got a $35 Blockbuster certificate if test drive the 5. Guess I'll have to go drive one now. Not that I need an excuse. Of course I may have to throw in a test of the new MX5 too.

once_for_all

to see if my 6'3" was comfortable. This one had a moonroof too but there was a ton of room. Good job Mazda.

Lol though, the salesman opened all the doors and cranked the AC on high before he let me sit down. It was a black unit in full noon day sun and it was 100 degrees out.

John

ateixeira

Where did you get the offer? In the mail?

Odd because I'm signed up for updates from the Mazda site yet I didn't get it.

-juice

smaria

Not sure if it's related to this offer:

http://www.mazda5testdrive.com/

Sounds similar except for the amount ($25 vs. $35)

ateixeira

I signed up. I've been curious to test drive one anyway, this gives me the motivation to do so.

-juice

charlotte7

I got that, too. I also got a $25 Target gift certificate offer earlier in the year to test drive a Mazda6. I got my $35 Blockbuster certificate offer in e-mail.

acerguy

LOL. I have a friend who's made test driving cars for the deals a virtual second job! Let's see, as I recall he's driven the new Audi A3, a Subaru, some Hummer, and a few other things that I've forgotten...just in the last couple of months!

once_for_all

I was tempted to go check out a Chevy last year because they had a great sounding roadside tool kit! Lol never made it though.

John

dapont

According to a Mazda online blurb, 70% of the Mazda5's sold in Japan early this year right after introduction were ordered with power doors. However, MazdaUSA says power doors won't be available in North America for the current 2006 model year.

But who knows, if the demand is there, might they make them available for the 2007 model? The cost wasn't mentioned, but am I the only one out there who would spring for that feature?

audia8q

I think you may be one of a few.....I am basing this on the low take rate of the power doors on the MPV. When they added the pwr door feature to the MPV I expected the take rate to be much higher than it has been. Less than 5%.

once_for_all

wife refused to get power doors on our MPV (just another thing to go wrong). I had to agree with her on that one.

John

subearu

But you can easily get spoiled having them. We weren't big on 'em when we got our '02 ES, but they quickly became helpful to my DW when getting the kids to the car. Necessity, no. Nicety, yes.

Now if only the MPV doors opened as wide as the Mazda5's...

-Brian

ateixeira

Really? I'm surprised. Seems like a big convenience to the type of buyer that would want it.

Maybe they open too slowly for most people's tastes?

-juice

rlawrence

I personally find the electric sliding doors useless, much like electric can openers. I am sure some of you have found elsctric sliding doors quite handy, the same way some of you enjoy the convenience of the electric can opener, however I have to find the true convenience in either.

As far as I am soncerned they were really introduced to prove to people that they were a practical and maybe even cool accessory, that they were hoping dissuade a customer from buying the SUV instead.

kyfdx

But... It seems they are very popular on Hondas, Toyotas, Chryslers....

I'm kind of surprised Mazda isn't the same way.... though Mazda's offering tend to be the price leaders, so maybe that is why...

audia8q

Let's look at this feature from a $$$ standpoint...

A power door option would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $800...any takers?

kyfdx

I think as long as people are paying $2000 for an electronic map, anything is possible...

subearu

We weren't going to buy or shop for an SUV when shopping for the MPV, we were specificially shopping for a minivan. Then, by your point, we were the wrong target market for them since we weren't after an SUV.

We also use a regular 'manual' can opener, no electric can openers in our home.

I find the power doors similar to a garage door opener. Once you use one, you realize the true convenience. Think about the typical demographic of the MPV - a family with children - and you may realize the reason for this option on most minivans.

Like I said before, a nicety yes, a necessity no.

We would have still bought our MPV if it didn't have power doors. We merely opted for the ES we choose since it had the 17" wheels and the factory moonroof (the moonroof being rare to find back in '02). But, that's yet another accesory that is functional to some and not to others.

-Brian

stickguy

sometimes they are handy, but certainly not crucial. Plus, my kids are old enough to open the doors manually (as they did for years on our Quest).

One reason you see them so much on Hondas and Toyotas (especialy Honda) is that they are standard on all but the stripper models. I didn't want them 9we have an EX-L Ody), vut had to get them. And yes, for $800 as a delte option, I would have deleted them.

On the Mazda, the doors are very well designed. They can pretty much be opened with one finger IIRC, and slide easily.

Besides, with all the angst about the 5 being too heavy for the engine, you want to add more weight?