I'v'e gone thru one northeast winter so far with my Cooper and after the very first dusting took off the stock all season tires and put 4 Dunlop Winter Sport M2 tires on. BIG DIFFERENCE. The stock tires are crap when it comes to snow. Dry/wet roads their OK but they are not any good in snow/ice. I commute a 100 miles a day thru some hilly areas and the need for snow tires & limited slip is very apparent when it snows. Mini is now offering limited slip differential on the 2005 MCS or Convertible ($500 option), go for it if that is one of the models your considering. Unfortunetly the option is not yet available for the Cooper, only Mini knows why !
I received a price of $25K for 2005 convertible equipped with the premier or premium package, plus winter package and DCS or DSc option. Is this a good price or can I do better. It includes leatheret seats not the sport seat.
Did you price it out on the Mini USA "build your own" webpage, that will tell you MSRP. Any mark ups by dealers I consider greed and would walk out the door. But that's my opinion. Paying MSRP is bad enough to have 1 to 2 k on top of that simply because of limited availabiltiy is nonsense but that's the law of supply/demand.
How bad you want one !
Mini's do hold their value but I doubt you would ever recoup the "mark up" down the road.
dools, I shopped all around LA and finally bought at Irvine Mini. Cooper Convertible (not S) fully loaded for $27k with NO MARK-UP. They had a "special" that weekend and had no mark-ups on Cooper Convertibles. I don't know if they still have it, or if they do it for the S, but probably worth checking into.
In Atlanta, the documentation fees have gotten out of hand.
I used to work at a dealership in town, and we initially had a doc fee of $149,and then we bumped it to $199, ...$249, ...$299,... $399, and finally $499 all in a period of 3 1/2 years. People kept paying it. We used to not include it if a car was advertised in the newspaper as a loss leader, because it was illegal to sell the car for more money then what was advertised; but then new management took over, and they told us to get "strong" and get the fee, and dare the customers to sue us. We sent many a shopper home without the ad car. I left the business in 1998, but it seems like nothing in Atlanta has changed. The dealers still take advantage, because the buying public keeps paying it.
BMW/MINI of the Woodlands seems to be OK. Apparently folks fly in from out of town to buy from them. I'm in the market for a MCS & they seem easy to talk to. No mark-ups; a few MINI's on the lot. Don't know anything about the service department, though.
I am thinking of selling my '04 MCS with 16,800 miles and order a new '05 MCS.
I have not yet driven the '05 Cooper S with the improvements to the gearing ratios and added engine HP. Is it worth it moving up to a '05 coming from a '04 MCS?
My car has been extremely reliable and still looks brand new. 15 Months old, September 2003 build.
While you probably won't loose much, you will loose something on the deal. I would keep the 04 and add the 05 JCW engine tuning package. You will feel the difference!
I have driven stock 04's and 05's and the difference is very small. Not worth the trade to me.
Remember, the MINI gets a major engine re-do for the 07 model so keeping the 04 might be the better deal.
I agree with the previous poster. The changes in the 05 vs. 04 are almost imperceptible. And if you'd make this trade, then you'll surely want to make the trade to the 07, meaning you'll be trading three times in four years. Which is fine if you like buying new cars all the time and can afford it, but hardly cost effective.
I put the JCW package in the same category (not very cost effective), but you will notice the difference.
I bought a Mini Cooper from Manhattan Mini of New York. A great experiance once you understand the nuonces. They charge list, period. Ok but so did Saturn when it first came out. There is no benefit to buying out of their stock because the old rule of thumb doesn't apply. You don't get any bargain to helping a dealer unload his stock. I ordered mine it took 2 months. The scary part of my sale was that my salesman was a real gentleman and when he called me one day I figured it was to inform that the car was in. Instead he told me that he was quiting and leaving me to the next available salesperson. I dreded this because there are more bad than good in this line of work (sorry if I offended anyone). All said and done the salesperson who replaced mine made a few mistakes during delivery and I had to be on my toes. The car though is fun. You are truely on stage when you drive it and I believe that the Pepper White color (I liked it so much that I ordered it solid toned) is that hotest color in the market today. The minute glitch of an expanding tailpipe that "clicks" when first warming up on a cold day is definately livable from my propective.
Good luck to anyone who chooses this model. It's a lot of fun.
Can you hear the tailpipe "clicking" while driving? I doubt it, so I'm thinking you're letting the car sit and idle to warm up. Not recommended by Mini and most engine experts. As soon as the engine runs well enough to take throttle and move off, it is best to drive away. You do want to take it easy until it reaches normal temp, but idling is not a good idea.
Mark, we have to define "idling". For me it's 2-5 minutes on a warm up. But I don't always agree with the manufacturers. Even before the days of synthetic oils. My 1997 GMC pick up was required to have oil changes every 7000 miles. I averaged about 1800 miles per oil change interval.
Mini says 10,000 but I'm inclined not to agree with this. I still support the old school thinking that frequent oil changes and good warm ups are the way to go. Well that's the way we did it at State U Morrisville NY automotive engineering div. I believe there are 2 schools of thought about everything even break in techniques. You were right however about the clicking exhaust noise . It happens about the 2nd minute of warm up but it's a no brainer. A car this small it's not hard to locate the tail pipe and noises related to this. Just for curiousity do you own a mini too?
Has anyone recently purchased, ordered or otherwise received a quote from a Mini dealer in NC? I'm looking for one thats loaded with the exception of leather seating.
I'm considering the JCW package but I would like to hear some feedback from anyone that has one before I invest. Everything I've read and heard (Mini literature) so far is that the extra performance is more than just noticeable. It's very noticeable. Any thoughts?
Also, You have to give Kudos to BMW/MINI on how they have marketed the new MINIs with the miniusa website. By creating such an array of options in color, performance... etc, they have controlled the market in such a way that I imagine 75% or more of Mini sales are custom ordered cars. (Read between the lines.... people will pay more for a car that they have customized and perceive as "unique".) Not to mention, people have already gone through sticker shock before they arrive at the dealer... and if the website says thats the cost... then it must be true.
Well, 2 mins is probably not a problem, but everything I've read says that you want to get the engine through its rich-mixture, high-wear warmup period as quickly as possible without pushing the engine. So the best bet, for both economy and engine life, is to start it up and as soon as it will take throttle reasonably well, start driving it gently.
But do whatever makes you comfortable. Good luck with your new ride,
Has anyone tried to add an option after receiving a production number when ordering a MINI? I wanted to see if I could add an option, but would rather not "upset" the production process if I do.
You are able to change the order up to a certain point in the process. I'm not sure what you mean by "production number", but if you mean a VIN, then it is possible to make changes downstream of this, but only for a limited time. Call your MA and they will give you the final word and take care of it if they can.
If you have your production number, then you can go to www.miniusa.com and register with the Owners' Lounge. One of the options there is "Track Your Mini" which shows where your Mini is in the production cycle. Mine is awaiting transportation.
There are also a number of very helpful forums in the Owners' Lounge.
RT, thanks for the advice on the Owners' Lounge. Needless to say that the moment I got my production number, I ran to my computer and entered my name. Amazed that their system picked up the type, color, and options. I'm so hooked into the whole MINI thing, it's becoming a cult.
Unfortunately, my MA has not returned my phone call I made yesterday regarding options. I think I'm going to talk to the sales manager for the answer.
My Mini had gotten to the "Scheduled for Production" phase when I found out that the Rear Fog Light was now available. I called Long Beach Mini & since actual production had not started, I was able to add it. So definitely give it a try.
I'm sure the capital cost is essentially non-negotiable, so you're basically looking at the residuals and money factor. The residual sounds about right, but the .0034 money factor seems high to me. On another forum, someone has said that the base money factor rate from Mini financing is .00255. If your credit is good, I'd be looking to get at or very near this.
However, the dealer may have you a bit over the barrel if you're committed to buy the car and while giving you the high-demand convertible for MSRP, they may be looking to make it up in financing. If so, I'd try and lease through a third-party or simply finance the car conventionally with commonly available rates in the 4-5% range, or even less if you own a home. If you go in saying you're ready to do an alternative, I'd bet the dealer will back down and give you the base rate.
Any recent Canadian Mini buyers? We're looking at a Cooper with CVT and wonder if there's any dickering on the price. Also, we don't really want the sunroof, but we're told by the salesman that there are very very few Coopers ordered without the Premium Package. Is he feeding us a line?
Also, what is the standard freight and PDI charge for the Mini?
Are there no recent Canadian Mini buyers out there? To be more specific, I'm in BC (Vancouver area). Looking at a Cooper with CVT and Premium. There's a current Mini lease deal for money factor of .00229 (5.5%) over 39 months, 62% residual on a super-low mileage lease. All of that I find acceptable, except, they won't budge from MSRP. Salesman said best he can do is give me some free Mini accessories (clothing, caps, etc). Whoopee!
Am I getting hosed? Or is that the state of the Mini market in this area? I can see Minis are popular, but the model's been around for about 4 years now, for Chrissake! They can't still be selling at MSRP, can they? How about anyone in the Pacific Northwest area (ie. Seattle, Wash). What are your recent buying experiences?
I believe Seattle is still getting MSRP+$600 with a six- to twelve-month waiting list. I don't know if the market in Vancouver is similar, but yes, the Mini is still in high-enough demand that discounts are generally few and far between.
Never hurts to offer less and see if they bite, of course.
My nearest MINI dealer is in Princeton, NJ. I went there today and test drove a cooper (love it).
Before I went there I did my homework and priced out the cooper I like on the miniusa web site.
The experience in the dealership so far was very pleasant. The guy told me that they sell at MSRP (if I order) and after reading this web site this seems to be the way it is - or has anyone gotten the '05 MINI in NJ or eastern PA under MSRP?
They are kicking in the door mats for free which are listed on the web site as $95.
Having an iPod I want the iPod adapter for which they charge $120 installation on top of the $150 retail price. Can you buy the original BMW adapter (incl. installation) somewhere else for less?
Also, they are charging $115.50 for plates and a $125.40 title/doc fee which I think is too much. BTW I live in PA. Has anybody had any luck in negotiating that down or being charged lower fees at any of the two Philadelphia MINI dealers?
I have run into this fee in Atlanta as well. I just look at the fee as essentially the cost of the car.
My father is in the car business in a small town and I can get better deals in Atlanta, which includes the Doc prep fee, than he can in North Carolina. It is all about volume. I try to pay as close to invoice, get all of the rebates or financing deals for myself, and looko at the bottom line out the door price. It doesn't really matter what you call it other than money and to total walkout cost.
Now if they are springing it on you at the last minute, then %$#%#$$ them. Walk away!
follow my adventure in buying a MINI from the start.
Edmund's is a GREAT tool to use when you are car shopping and I want to pay back now.
Bought a 2005 MCS with automatic from Momentum in Houston yesterday. Pick it up tomorrow.
This one was on the lot, arrived the day I happened by chance to go to the dealer to test drive MCS with automatic.
Ordering was out for me. Too "iffy" if they will not guarantee the value of your trade in for the wait period.
Dealer had added some things I didn't want beyond the factory configuration to squeeze some more margin out of it. Got them to delete half. Then paid sticker for it. Had everything== $28,000+
The deciding factors for me were: (1) amazingly comfortable car for a guy 6'4". ONLY car I have ever been in where I can stretch out my legs and arms full length; (2) gas mileage..gas may drop a little, but is basically going to a new permanent plateau-- $2.00 a gallon-- as the inflationary cycle begins again in this country; (3) easy to park in tight downtown parking structures/spaces; (4) puts the fun back in driving; (5) great second car as we have a Lexus for trips etc.(6) appears from owners I have asked that the quality HAS improved on the 2005s. Hope, hope...
Buying experience was good-- the dealership is very laid back and non-pressure. Did a little negotiating on the value of my trade in, but much less hassle than in past deals.
Appears MINI is requiring dealers to hold firm at MSRP. At least for the MCS automatics which are few and far between. They did not mark up over MSRP. They had a document fee and $497 "pool benefits cost" which covers loaner car, other service benefits etc. Did not try to negotiate this down. I want their service department to get big and rich and get the best techs-- I can't take it anywhere else to get fixed.
They tried to sell me a 3rd party extended warranty. That would have been a deal buster. There evidently is an extended warranty through BMS and MINI-- I will be doing research. Typically, I don't buy that until I determine if I am going to keep the car.
Same day earlier, checked out the inventory at MINI of the Woodlands in North Houston. They had little inventory and appear to be just getting going.
"Appears MINI is requiring dealers to hold firm at MSRP"
First of all, congrats!
Regarding prices, dealers are holding firm at or near MSRP probably due to supply and demand. Any "suggestion" by Mini to hold prices may run afoul of anti-trust laws. Just ask Toyota and their Access Toyota policy!
now that my deal is complete and I have taken possesion of my MCS--auto, I can VERY HIGHLY recommend MOMENTUM MINI of Houston. If you are anywhere in Texas you need to check them out. They had a much larger inventory on the lot than any other dealer I have seen/talked to. Had professional, but low key staff. No pressure. No hassles. Very helpful and realistic. Did what they said they would do. They say they are the 4th largest MINI dealer. And I believe it.
No, I do not work for them or have a financial interest in the dealership. And it is very hard to get a strong recommendation from me-- I was pretty tough on them.
The MCS puts fun back in driving. Fast, manuverable== great fun. Have to get used to a couple of things now that I am in a lower, smaller vehicle. I was expecting to be hard to see by other drivers. In certain situations, big SUVs cannot see you. And cut right in front of you. The most dangerous situation I see for the car is being parked between two large vehicles. You cannot see who is in the lane when you are backing out. Have to go more slowly.
So far the feature I really like is being able to lower the power windows and roll back the sunroof by using the key before you get in.
What it needs now: armrest definitely, organizer for the limited storage space in dash. Good wax job and TLC....
I actually got to order a MINI, since the West Palm Beach MINI dealer did not have what I wanted in stock. Overall the experience was going great, until they added a dealer prep fee of $489.00. Since I agreed to pay MSRP, (which was 12 % over invoice on average), I refused to pay the dealer prep fee. Needless to say I walked and am MINIless.
Don't ya love those little "ad on fees" ? Your right $489 for dealer prep & document fee is ridiculous. This will be a determining factor when I look to upgrade to a 2005 or 2006 "S" . I presently own a 2003 Cooper. MSRP is bad enough since dealer is making at least $2k on the sale if not more over their cost. If enough people balk at the add on fees the dealers might fall in line but the Mini histeria is driving the buying and the dealers are running to the bank on it. Greed is a terrible thing :mad: I'm sure there will be someone out there that disagrees with me but I call it as I see it.
Here we go again. Are you "greedy" because you command the highest salary the market will bear for your job? Couldn't you get by on a lot less?
Further, is a customer "greedy" if they walk in and offer less than MSRP? Why does MSRP establish a high-water mark for the dealer, but the buyer is free to grind the dealer down to the last dollar below MSRP?
As markups go for desirable in-stock Minis, $500 is about average and what the current market will bear. If the dealer is upfront about the extra fees and doesn't try and sneak them in under the table in the finance mgr's office, then I don't see the problem. It's called supply and demand in a free market. They don't have to sell you a car and you don't have to buy it.
In Canada, dealer prep (Pre-delivery Inspection), just like freight and delivery, is regarded as a real cost, not a add-on profit item. I'm not sure what the $$ amount is because freight and PDI are lumped together, but I think the lion's share is for freight and a $200 - 300 for PDI.
But I agree that in a free market, you can't blame dealers for charging whatever the market will bear, since the bar is ultimately set by the market. Whether they make $2, or $2000 per car is irrelevant.
Another example is professional athletes and entertainers. Are those guys really worth even 1/10 of what they're paid? Are they really making a tangible contribution to society? But they are paid what they are paid because that's what the market bears.
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In regard to the responses, thanks. And yes you are correct, if one is willing to pay more then why not charge more? In my case, I will search for a private party sale. However, it is a shame because I wonder how many people did not order vehicles based on similar experiences with dealers.
In addition, if I recall correctly, the MINI was recreated as an affordable option--especially for students. Unfortunately, it seems that affordable means you have the luxury of paying more than $2500 over invoice (Which does not include the $550 destination fee).
I got my 2005 Mini from Tom Bush Mini here in Jacksonville florida for MSRP, with no dealer add ons or fees other than a "standard" $389 dealer fee that was on the sals agreement (same as on every other car Ihave ever bought new). This Mini dealer is very nice and a pleasure to deal with!
Dave all ya can do is try to negotiate the price, if dealer is unwilling to do so simply because of "supply and demand" its one less they do sell in the big picture.Some day the comfort zone won't be there and they'll go hungry When I decide on an "S" I'll expect some downward movement or extra's since it will be a second purchase. The Cooper I'll sell privately because a trade is always a loss. :P
I'm getting a 25,100 MSRP Mini with 1,500 mark up.. The dealer usually charges 3 but the dealer was able to cut that in half. So the Mini altogether is 26,600.
It's an S automatic with tartan Red upholstery, Harmon Kardon, Premium Package, bonnet stripes.
Anyway... She quoted me $385 a month plus tax for 48 months with 12k miles and 3k down... How does that compare to anyone elses Mini in the same price range? Good deal, rip off? What?
Or for 5k down the payment is lowered to $338 plus tax.
What I have to ask is: If I decide to buy my car out in the end of the lease, does that down payment contribute to the buyout price or is that down payment just money thrown out the window? =/
I think you are overpaying; in south Florida, the price is MSRP. Did you look into MINI Select financing? It is more like an intrest only loan with your balance payment due in a couple of years. You can check it at MINIUSA.COM
But for leasing those are the numbers we are getting. Only other option is to get a loan through bank or our insurance company, buy the car out, and owe back the loan... Not sure which is going to cost more but from estimates the loan from USAA would cost more.
Anyway... She quoted me $385 a month plus tax for 48 months with 12k miles and 3k down... How does that compare to anyone elses Mini in the same price range? Good deal, rip off? What?
Am I understanding this correctly...you pay $385 per month for 48 months, plus $3000 down. 385 x 48 = 18,480 plus $3,000 = $21,480.
At the end of 4 years, you've paid them $21,480, give them back the car, and walk away.
And we plan on buying the car out in the end... What happens to that down payment? Does it contribute to buying it out or is that just money out the window?
Comments
Ray T.
How bad you want one !
Mini's do hold their value but I doubt you would ever recoup the "mark up" down the road.
Ray T.
I used to work at a dealership in town, and we initially had a doc fee of $149,and then we bumped it to $199, ...$249, ...$299,... $399, and finally $499 all in a period of 3 1/2 years. People kept paying it. We used to not include it if a car was advertised in the newspaper as a loss leader, because it was illegal to sell the car for more money then what was advertised; but then new management took over, and they told us to get "strong" and get the fee, and dare the customers to sue us. We sent many a shopper home without the ad car. I left the business in 1998, but it seems like nothing in Atlanta has changed. The dealers still take advantage, because the buying public keeps paying it.
Good luck.......
I have not yet driven the '05 Cooper S with the improvements to the gearing ratios and added engine HP. Is it worth it moving up to a '05 coming from a '04 MCS?
My car has been extremely reliable and still looks brand new. 15 Months old, September 2003 build.
I have driven stock 04's and 05's and the difference is very small. Not worth the trade to me.
Remember, the MINI gets a major engine re-do for the 07 model so keeping the 04 might be the better deal.
I put the JCW package in the same category (not very cost effective), but you will notice the difference.
- Mark
I bought a Mini Cooper from Manhattan Mini of New York. A great experiance once you understand the nuonces. They charge list, period. Ok but so did Saturn when it first came out. There is no benefit to buying out of their stock because the old rule of thumb doesn't apply. You don't get any bargain to helping a dealer unload his stock. I ordered mine it took 2 months. The scary part of my sale was that my salesman was a real gentleman and when he called me one day I figured it was to inform that the car was in. Instead he told me that he was quiting and leaving me to the next available salesperson. I dreded this because there are more bad than good in this line of work (sorry if I offended anyone). All said and done the salesperson who replaced mine made a few mistakes during delivery and I had to be on my toes. The car though is fun. You are truely on stage when you drive it and I believe that the Pepper White color (I liked it so much that I ordered it solid toned) is that hotest color in the market today. The minute glitch of an expanding tailpipe that "clicks" when first warming up on a cold day is definately livable from my propective.
Good luck to anyone who chooses this model. It's a lot of fun.
Joe
Can you hear the tailpipe "clicking" while driving? I doubt it, so I'm thinking you're letting the car sit and idle to warm up. Not recommended by Mini and most engine experts. As soon as the engine runs well enough to take throttle and move off, it is best to drive away. You do want to take it easy until it reaches normal temp, but idling is not a good idea.
- Mark
Mini says 10,000 but I'm inclined not to agree with this. I still support the old school thinking that frequent oil changes and good warm ups are the way to go. Well that's the way we did it at State U Morrisville NY automotive engineering div. I believe there are 2 schools of thought about everything even break in techniques. You were right however about the clicking exhaust noise . It happens about the 2nd minute of warm up but it's a no brainer. A car this small it's not hard to locate the tail pipe and noises related to this. Just for curiousity do you own a mini too?
Joe
I'm considering the JCW package but I would like to hear some feedback from anyone that has one before I invest. Everything I've read and heard (Mini literature) so far is that the extra performance is more than just noticeable. It's very noticeable. Any thoughts?
Also, You have to give Kudos to BMW/MINI on how they have marketed the new MINIs with the miniusa website. By creating such an array of options in color, performance... etc, they have controlled the market in such a way that I imagine 75% or more of Mini sales are custom ordered cars. (Read between the lines.... people will pay more for a car that they have customized and perceive as "unique".) Not to mention, people have already gone through sticker shock before they arrive at the dealer... and if the website says thats the cost... then it must be true.
Cheers,
Killer_B
Well, 2 mins is probably not a problem, but everything I've read says that you want to get the engine through its rich-mixture, high-wear warmup period as quickly as possible without pushing the engine. So the best bet, for both economy and engine life, is to start it up and as soon as it will take throttle reasonably well, start driving it gently.
But do whatever makes you comfortable. Good luck with your new ride,
- Mark
Thanks!
- Mark
There are also a number of very helpful forums in the Owners' Lounge.
Roger.
My car is a 2005 Cooper. I was just curious: 1.if you do your own service and 2. how often you do have the car serviced.
Joe
Unfortunately, my MA has not returned my phone call I made yesterday regarding options. I think I'm going to talk to the sales manager for the answer.
My Mini had gotten to the "Scheduled for Production" phase when I found out that the Rear Fog Light was now available. I called Long Beach Mini & since actual production had not started, I was able to add it. So definitely give it a try.
Long Beach MINI? That's the dealer I'm working with! Email me and we'll compare Coopers.
Base MSRP + 21,450
Cold weather = $300
Premium package = 1,350
Auto trans = 1,300
DCS = 500
Sport seats = 300
fog lights = 150
so, net total = 25,350
destination charge = 550
MSRP = 25,900
residual quoted at 65% for 36 months and 12k miles per year
With money factor of .0034, and $1,000 down, the sales manager says monthly lease payment would be about $435.
Good deal? Bad deal? Money factor likely to go up, down on March 1 (or no one ever knows)?
Thanks for any help
SFCharlie
However, the dealer may have you a bit over the barrel if you're committed to buy the car and while giving you the high-demand convertible for MSRP, they may be looking to make it up in financing. If so, I'd try and lease through a third-party or simply finance the car conventionally with commonly available rates in the 4-5% range, or even less if you own a home. If you go in saying you're ready to do an alternative, I'd bet the dealer will back down and give you the base rate.
Good luck,
- Mark
Also, what is the standard freight and PDI charge for the Mini?
Am I getting hosed? Or is that the state of the Mini market in this area? I can see Minis are popular, but the model's been around for about 4 years now, for Chrissake! They can't still be selling at MSRP, can they? How about anyone in the Pacific Northwest area (ie. Seattle, Wash). What are your recent buying experiences?
Never hurts to offer less and see if they bite, of course.
- Mark
Before I went there I did my homework and priced out the cooper I like on the miniusa web site.
The experience in the dealership so far was very pleasant. The guy told me that they sell at MSRP (if I order) and after reading this web site this seems to be the way it is - or has anyone gotten the '05 MINI in NJ or eastern PA under MSRP?
They are kicking in the door mats for free which are listed on the web site as $95.
Having an iPod I want the iPod adapter for which they charge $120 installation on top of the $150 retail price. Can you buy the original BMW adapter (incl. installation) somewhere else for less?
Also, they are charging $115.50 for plates and a $125.40 title/doc fee which I think is too much. BTW I live in PA. Has anybody had any luck in negotiating that down or being charged lower fees at any of the two Philadelphia MINI dealers?
Thanks,
McW
It'll help me decide on how to finance, and calcuate total monthly payments better.
My father is in the car business in a small town and I can get better deals in Atlanta, which includes the Doc prep fee, than he can in North Carolina. It is all about volume. I try to pay as close to invoice, get all of the rebates or financing deals for myself, and looko at the bottom line out the door price. It doesn't really matter what you call it other than money and to total walkout cost.
Now if they are springing it on you at the last minute, then %$#%#$$ them. Walk away!
Edmund's is a GREAT tool to use when you are car shopping and I want to pay back now.
Bought a 2005 MCS with automatic from Momentum in Houston yesterday. Pick it up tomorrow.
This one was on the lot, arrived the day I happened by chance to go to the dealer to test drive MCS with automatic.
Ordering was out for me. Too "iffy" if they will not guarantee the value of your trade in for the wait period.
Dealer had added some things I didn't want beyond the factory configuration to squeeze some more margin out of it. Got them to delete half. Then paid sticker for it. Had everything== $28,000+
The deciding factors for me were: (1) amazingly comfortable car for a guy 6'4". ONLY car I have ever been in where I can stretch out my legs and arms full length; (2) gas mileage..gas may drop a little, but is basically going to a new permanent plateau-- $2.00 a gallon-- as the inflationary cycle begins again in this country; (3) easy to park in tight downtown parking structures/spaces; (4) puts the fun back in driving; (5) great second car as we have a Lexus for trips etc.(6) appears from owners I have asked that the quality HAS improved on the 2005s. Hope, hope...
Buying experience was good-- the dealership is very laid back and non-pressure. Did a little negotiating on the value of my trade in, but much less hassle than in past deals.
Appears MINI is requiring dealers to hold firm at MSRP. At least for the MCS automatics which are few and far between. They did not mark up over MSRP. They had a document fee and $497 "pool benefits cost" which covers loaner car, other service benefits etc. Did not try to negotiate this down. I want their service department to get big and rich and get the best techs-- I can't take it anywhere else to get fixed.
They tried to sell me a 3rd party extended warranty. That would have been a deal buster. There evidently is an extended warranty through BMS and MINI-- I will be doing research. Typically, I don't buy that until I determine if I am going to keep the car.
Same day earlier, checked out the inventory at MINI of the Woodlands in North Houston. They had little inventory and appear to be just getting going.
stay tuned for our next episode...
First of all, congrats!
Regarding prices, dealers are holding firm at or near MSRP probably due to supply and demand. Any "suggestion" by Mini to hold prices may run afoul of anti-trust laws. Just ask Toyota and their Access Toyota policy!
No, I do not work for them or have a financial interest in the dealership. And it is very hard to get a strong recommendation from me-- I was pretty tough on them.
The MCS puts fun back in driving. Fast, manuverable== great fun. Have to get used to a couple of things now that I am in a lower, smaller vehicle. I was expecting to be hard to see by other drivers. In certain situations, big SUVs cannot see you. And cut right in front of you. The most dangerous situation I see for the car is being parked between two large vehicles. You cannot see who is in the lane when you are backing out. Have to go more slowly.
So far the feature I really like is being able to lower the power windows and roll back the sunroof by using the key before you get in.
What it needs now: armrest definitely, organizer for the limited storage space in dash. Good wax job and TLC....
Don't ya love those little "ad on fees" ? Your right $489 for dealer prep & document fee is ridiculous. This will be a determining factor when I look to upgrade to a 2005 or 2006 "S" . I presently own a 2003 Cooper. MSRP is bad enough since dealer is making at least $2k on the sale if not more over their cost. If enough people balk at the add on fees the dealers might fall in line but the Mini histeria is driving the buying and the dealers are running to the bank on it. Greed is a terrible thing :mad: I'm sure there will be someone out there that disagrees with me but I call it as I see it.
Ray T.
Further, is a customer "greedy" if they walk in and offer less than MSRP? Why does MSRP establish a high-water mark for the dealer, but the buyer is free to grind the dealer down to the last dollar below MSRP?
As markups go for desirable in-stock Minis, $500 is about average and what the current market will bear. If the dealer is upfront about the extra fees and doesn't try and sneak them in under the table in the finance mgr's office, then I don't see the problem. It's called supply and demand in a free market. They don't have to sell you a car and you don't have to buy it.
- Mark
But I agree that in a free market, you can't blame dealers for charging whatever the market will bear, since the bar is ultimately set by the market. Whether they make $2, or $2000 per car is irrelevant.
Another example is professional athletes and entertainers. Are those guys really worth even 1/10 of what they're paid? Are they really making a tangible contribution to society? But they are paid what they are paid because that's what the market bears.
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In regard to the responses, thanks. And yes you are correct, if one is willing to pay more then why not charge more? In my case, I will search for a private party sale. However, it is a shame because I wonder how many people did not order vehicles based on similar experiences with dealers.
In addition, if I recall correctly, the MINI was recreated as an affordable option--especially for students. Unfortunately, it seems that affordable means you have the luxury of paying more than $2500 over invoice (Which does not include the $550 destination fee).
Dave all ya can do is try to negotiate the price, if dealer is unwilling to do so simply because of "supply and demand" its one less they do sell in the big picture.Some day the comfort zone won't be there and they'll go hungry
When I decide on an "S" I'll expect some downward movement or extra's since it will be a second purchase. The Cooper I'll sell privately because a trade is always a loss. :P
Ray
It's an S automatic with tartan Red upholstery, Harmon Kardon, Premium Package, bonnet stripes.
Anyway... She quoted me $385 a month plus tax for 48 months with 12k miles and 3k down... How does that compare to anyone elses Mini in the same price range? Good deal, rip off? What?
Or for 5k down the payment is lowered to $338 plus tax.
What I have to ask is: If I decide to buy my car out in the end of the lease, does that down payment contribute to the buyout price or is that down payment just money thrown out the window? =/
But for leasing those are the numbers we are getting. Only other option is to get a loan through bank or our insurance company, buy the car out, and owe back the loan... Not sure which is going to cost more but from estimates the loan from USAA would cost more.
Am I understanding this correctly...you pay $385 per month for 48 months, plus $3000 down.
385 x 48 = 18,480 plus $3,000 = $21,480.
At the end of 4 years, you've paid them $21,480, give them back the car, and walk away.
And we plan on buying the car out in the end... What happens to that down payment? Does it contribute to buying it out or is that just money out the window?
In the end, your cost is $21,480 plus the buyout price. I'll bet your cost will be significantly more than MSRP +$1500.
You should also do this total cost calculation with the bank loan numbers to see which is the better deal.