My stand on aftermarket parts is considering high-performance aftermarket parts are usually superior to OEM parts - I'm talking about performance items like oil pans, valve covers, intakes, exhaust systems, alternators (high amp race versions), and of course, water pumps, radiators, etc.
The aftermarket parts I hate are the cheesy brake rotors, tune up parts, and things like oil pans, that are stamped/thrown together by a sweatshop in Bangladesh or Singapore.
I'll send you an email sometime this weekend. I definetly agree with you, there are a lot cheesy parts out there that don't belong on any car. The stuff that drives me nuts on this board are there are so many people that are to lazy to read their owner's manual and they don't even take the time to read previous posts, before asking everyone to solve their problem. Most of the time the answer is in their own book. If car owner's would spend a little time reading their manuals and previous posts, they would most likely find the right information. Many times I know the answer to questions, but I get tired of responding to the same thing, so I just ignore it. I look forward to communicating with you.
I have to admit IS, I have been reading your posts for years and I enjoy your interaction. I'm impressed that you keep hanging in there based on some of the abuse I've read. Take care.
I think you are mixing posts, you may be referring to Driftracer. I'm an aircraft maintenance officer in Air Force Special Operations in Ft. Walton Beach. I do all my own maintenance on my cars and some for friends in my spare time.
There are great aftermarket parts, and total crap ones. I have done all my own wotk on vehicles for over 30 years, and have seen it all. nice to find a place that weeds out the crap, like coventry west (Jaguar parts place). They tend to only sell quality parts, because the other stuff comes back for a refund.
Brembo rotors were $45.00 each and just as good as the OEM parts through Jaguar, ferodo pads worked very well, at a fraction of the cost.
The OEM valve cover gasket was much softer and lasted longer than the after market ones....
You have to research and compare price and quality on every part you buy.
Last month I was sick with a cold, so I took the car to a quick change place when it needed the filter changed, not the oil also.
I realized right away that there was an oil leak because of a slight drippage and an odor of burning oil. The filter sits directly above the exhaust system on this model, and a slight odor of burning oil was unmistakable.
It was a warm day today, I was feeling better, so I got busy.
The filter was tight. What could it be I wondered?
So, I pulled the filter.
The "culprit" was a cheap filter marked "Made in China".
The offshore auto parts thing has been going on for decades. Industry and govt has reduced the number of fake auto parts coming into this country but they can't stop it. Even your local parts store might carry cheap junk made to look like US brand name products.
but these knockoff artists get close. usually the type is a different but similar typeface. Now, of course, I always make sure I get a filter from the manufacturer.... Moopar, Frod, or GN
Buy filters made by Champion Laboratories, and you "can't go wrong." Several house brands made by Champion are available. I find it convenient to buy Supertech filters from Walmart.
and since we are now onto filters, the thing I found interesting is that AC Delco makes an oil filter for my Hyundai Elantra. While it does have the check valve in it, it is no where near the quality of assembly as the OEM Hyundai filter. Which struck me as odd, since AC Delco filters are generally one of the best made filters on the market.
So, I just go to the dealer and buy the filters. That way I know I am getting the proper filter, and the dealer knows I am changing the oil.
Drift, my little '02 Elantra w/5spd is one of the best cars I have ever owned. Blast to drive and 30mpg in mixed city/highway. I can do the oil and filter in less than 15 minutes, and the antifreeze in about the same. Very well thought out design.
I've come to the conclusion (in recent years) that its better to spend the extra bucks on the OEM oil filter than trust the Frams, Purolators, etc. of the world. Besides the check valve (in the case of VW) feature, the OEM filter has a lot heavier and more robust construction than those aforementioned aftermarket filters, making the OEM filter withstand higher burst pressures.
The Fram marketing phrase should be changed from "Pay me now - or pay them later" to "Pay me now AND pay them later" (for a trashed engine)...
issue with many engines - many GMs, for instance, start having top end oiling problems with non-check valve filters and I've seen warranty claims denied after the engine goes boom.
That's exactly what several mechanics told me. It seems that there have been a rash of engine failures due to using the cheaper aftermarket filters.
So even if the warranty allows the car owners to do their own oil changes, the type of oil and filter combination that is used (in the long run) can potentially turn out to be a dealbreaker come warranty claim time.
There are several local parts houses that carry genuine AC Delco filters with most costing $4 or less. I mean, really, you're looking at about $5 a year in additional cost. That's like, what, 2-3 gallons of gas?
I stick with OEM filters on my two German cars, but I do use Wix or Mobil 1 filters on the 4.0 I6 in my Wrangler(come to think of it, I guess it's at least part German...). The OEM Mopar filter appears to be no better than a Fram.
Last several posts place a lot of belief in filters actually doing good. Based upon my experience of mutliple brands, (never a Fram though) changing filters half way through an oil change (10,000-12,000 miles change intervals) and then not changing them and doing Used Oil Analysis, and cutting way to many of the suckers open afterwards I have concluded that all we need is a bypass valve and anti drain back seal and the rest is pretty much useless "in a well maintained well operating engine". They really do nothing and as was seen on another board where the person removed the fitler and ran a test with no fitler at all the used oil analysis was basically the same as with a filter.
Now, I know that no one is going to eliminate their filters but a good quality filter with a very high quality oil is all you need. With todays oils and engines the days of filters being full of dirt and debris and sludge are over. It really makes no diff what filter you use as long as it is not a Fram.
I've had to reseat a couple that leaked, so I've had 'em off when full of oil, and new as well. they're heavier used. they are surely trapping something, and I'd as soon not have that in my crank bearings or washing over my timing set. no, I haven't poured anything out of a used filter that looks like the old, black tar that came out of a 50s ford Customline and its oil bath filter. don't want to see anything like that in my drain pan, either.
you still have blow-by that seats the rings on the pistons on the power stroke, and that still puts combustion product crud in the oil. if you can't get used oil stains out of a white shop towel, doesn't it make sense that some of that slop is going to stay in a filter that is designed to hold it?
i agree they are a great value.there has been some negative comments regarding the bypass valve construction on the s.tech filters which has me wondering.
I have a lot of faith in the Champion Labs approach to filters. Another good manufacturer of filters is Wix Corporation. I used to buy up loads of them (due to price) under the Kmart Castrol/Penske house brands, and now regret the demise of those offerings. I am speculating that Fram may be offering pretty good filters, now that they are owned by Honeywell. Unfortunately, Fram does not compete in price with high quality house brands. I suppose their reputation is still not top drawer, as well.
kept the name for themselves, nothing has changed for fram except maybe some text on the package. the allied-signal team runs the merged company. no pieces of classic honeywell impact fram's business. it is safe to assume there is no change in the product.
I discontinued buying them long ago, given the opportunity to buy the competition at far more competitive prices-- except, strangely, in the case of motorcycle filters. I should have dodged trying to decipher who owns what, and who runs which. It's a nebulous situation out there!
I had to take my mom and her car in for an oil change; unfortunately Dodge service near her is closed on Saturday, so I tried EZ Lube.
Unfortunately they couldn't rest with just doing an oil change, and kept pushing transmission fluid, radiator coolant, power steering fluid, and what have you changes on her - on her 15,000 mile, 2 year old car. The sad part is, none of their fluids were up to spec, except maybe the coolant (but Chrysler uses a European variant of extended life coolant) which was good for 100,000 miles anyway. For the transmission, they wanted to use Dexron 3 with an "additive" to make it Dexron 3+ compatible; never mind that late model Dodges use Dexron 4, which is a synthetic, once again long life. Allpar has horror stories of damage transmisions from plain olf Dexron 3, and states that tests show that use of an "additive" doesn't make the grade.
So literally their high pressure sales tactics would have actually harmed the car.
Ironically, on the same day, I took my car to a GM dealer and got a $26.05 oil change - less than the quick lube shop - with a real Delco filter, GM/Delco oil (which satisfies GM's new "low pour point" requirement), and no hard sell on other services.
I have also noticed that Jiffy Lube has added "factory maintenance" to their service bays. I have always believed most minor dealer services are just inspections that anyone can perform, now Jiffy Lube has something new to try to push on you.
The manufacturers seal their units except for regular oil change and very occasional changes of other fluids, now the quick lubes are getting away from their early mandate of easy oil changes, and using nonspec fluids to do it.
How sad. There's a "sucker" born every minute, as PT Barnum said. This way to egress....
The one and only time I went to a quick change place, I believe it was Jiffy Lube, and it was well over ten years ago, they tried the same thing, with PCV valves, air filters, and on and on. I just said "no" to everything but the oil and filter change, and decided I would not return. Of course, the dealers try to pack unneeded maintenance as well, so not much better there either.
I change my own oil. It is actually more convenient for me, as I can do it on my own schedule with no waiting, and save about $10-$20 per oil change. End of problems. Oil disposal is done properly at my local city recycling facility.
I have thought about doing it myself, but ironically the easiest place I have found for my own oil changes is the quick lube at a local Honda dealer - they don't publicize it, but they serve other makes.
They told me they aren't on commission...unlike a lot of quick sale (oops, quick change) centers, they are union so they make a decent wage, and they are happy with me bringing in my own oil and filter (Pure One; usually Mobil 1 sometimes Castrol 5-20) and the out the door cost is about $16. Heck they even installed a Sure Drain for me and patiently listened the next time I came back when I asked them not to use a wrench on it...
Why does changing oil have to be such an obstacle course? My Ford is easy, they have a quick lane, but other dealers want the car all day.
badgerfan has the answer. I also change oil and filters in my own garage, and the results are perfect-- every time. I drop off my dirty oil at my neighborhood Autozone. They handle the disposal for their customers.
Jiffy Lube always pushes all the extras. I quit going to them many years ago. After trying Firestone for a few years I now alternate between the Saturn dealer and Exhaust Pro, they are very decent and not pushy about all the other crap. And they only charge 21 bucks. I hate changing my own oil, although I did it for many years, but its too big of a pain especially since most cars have the filter behind the engine anymore and it only saves $10 or so.
When it comes to being pushy, Jiffy Lube could take lessons from EZ Lube, based on my recent bad experience there. They practically called me a jerk because I passed on their transmission oil change, power steering oil change, etc.
Try Walmart, they are extremely cheap and use quality Pennzoil oil. They don't push anything, the oil change portion is a loss leader to get you in their store. But make sure to ask for a SuperTech filter, otherwise they install a Fram. SuperTech's although Walmarts store brand have an excellent reputation based on testing and are made by Champion Labs (one of the rare cases where a cheapo is probably better).
A pennzoil dino oil change is $15.88 and synthetic out of bottle (you pick oil) is $27.88. For an extra $3 they check your other fluids, air pressure, and vacuum. Lastly they are super cheap on a rotate without balance ($1.50/tire) $7.50/tire with balance.
I watched part of oil change at Walmart and they did a fine job in my case. I go first thing in the morning when they are not busy. They let you watch from behind a 3' wall if you like. Its just a hassle to go to an independant for an oil change unless I need other work performed due to their scheduling.
In the last several days, a friend of mine contacted his Honda dealer concerning an oil leak in his CRV (which is still under warranty). He told them he suspected the Honda brand filter was the culprit, but the leak could be a seal or other engine problem. They said that because he had installed the filter himself, that they would charge some $80.00 to inspect the car (Hey! What about the warranty?). Considering he had over 3000 miles on the last oil change, he asked if they would change the oil and filter for him for the customary price (about $24.00) and look for the leak at no additional charge. They agreed. The end result was they told him there was nothing wrong with the filter. If the leak persists...
So the removal labor is his, not the dealers. He was smart to get an oil change, which is cheaper than the $80 inspection charge, which is a typical charge.
If you think your friend has problems, consider mine: I installed a factory kit aircon unit on my Focus through an aftermarket shop, now there are CEL and engine compartment noise problems. Who do I go to? The independent says the aircon couldn't be causing the problems..but if I take it in for factory warranty work, and the dealer says it is the aftermarket unit, guess who will have to cough up the dough for the inspection etc?
That's why if my dealer has a halfway decent service department I take it to them during warranty for oil changes and services...and take a strong line with them about only doing the factory required service, not what their "local severe service" manual calls for.
Isn't it ironic that the car companies encourage us to buy their vehicles, using the warranty as one of the inducements. Then, they spend a lot of time and effort finding ways to refuse helping the buyer in even not so complicated circumstances. In my example, the local Honda dealer could have LOOKED at the undercarriage and rendered a preliminary opinion for FREE. If it was reasonable to then state that the "problem" was not covered by the warranty, the dealer could have suggested a course of action and the cost. This dealer sold that CRV new to my friend just a year and 10K miles ago. A little customer courtesy can go a long way, and so can customer disgruntlement. Perhaps the irony is double edged!
In the point of the oil problem, It would have been standard practice for them to put the vehicle on the hoist or at least have it checked out, then determine the cause. Once the cause has been determined, then they should have called and told you whether or not it was under warranty. Regardless, it would have been in their best interest to at least check it out. Now, not only have they lost a customer, but they have also lost that customer's friends.
If they had determined that it was the oil filter, then they should have stated that it wasn't covered under warranty. Unfortunately, more and more shops are starting to go with the practice that they will charge for everything.
One thing that bothers me is that the dealer has to; 1: verify the complaint. 2:locate the problem. 3: repair/replace component causing the problem. 4:verify the repair. In order to receive the warranty payment from the manufacturer. If they cannot complete any of the 4 steps, they don't receive warranty payment.
Although, a GOOD dealer will go ahead and check it out first.
Comments
My stand on aftermarket parts is considering high-performance aftermarket parts are usually superior to OEM parts - I'm talking about performance items like oil pans, valve covers, intakes, exhaust systems, alternators (high amp race versions), and of course, water pumps, radiators, etc.
The aftermarket parts I hate are the cheesy brake rotors, tune up parts, and things like oil pans, that are stamped/thrown together by a sweatshop in Bangladesh or Singapore.
The Sandman :-)
I have done all my own wotk on vehicles for over
30 years, and have seen it all.
nice to find a place that weeds out the crap, like
coventry west (Jaguar parts place).
They tend to only sell quality parts, because
the other stuff comes back for a refund.
Brembo rotors were $45.00 each and just as good as
the OEM parts through Jaguar, ferodo pads
worked very well, at a fraction of the cost.
The OEM valve cover gasket was much softer and lasted longer than the after market ones....
You have to research and compare price and quality on every part you buy.
Brett
2003 GLX
Last month I was sick with a cold, so I took the
car to a quick change place when it needed the
filter changed, not the oil also.
I realized right away that there was an oil leak
because of a slight drippage and an odor of burning oil. The filter sits directly above the
exhaust system on this model, and a slight odor
of burning oil was unmistakable.
It was a warm day today, I was feeling better, so
I got busy.
The filter was tight. What could it be I wondered?
So, I pulled the filter.
The "culprit" was a cheap filter marked "Made in
China".
I'm just posting this as a "warning" to others.
That's what I thought it was at first...
Tricky !!!
AC Declo
Farm
Pureolator
Wlx
Look at those products carefully.
Farm
Pureolator
Wlx
I thought Wix was a name brand -- or
am I NOT reading right...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I bet those foreign companies
use the same colors as the companies
whom they are ripping off too...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So, I just go to the dealer and buy the filters. That way I know I am getting the proper filter, and the dealer knows I am changing the oil.
Drift, my little '02 Elantra w/5spd is one of the best cars I have ever owned. Blast to drive and 30mpg in mixed city/highway. I can do the oil and filter in less than 15 minutes, and the antifreeze in about the same. Very well thought out design.
Jim
The Fram marketing phrase should be changed from "Pay me now - or pay them later" to "Pay me now AND pay them later" (for a trashed engine)...
That's exactly what several mechanics told me. It seems that there have been a rash of engine failures due to using the cheaper aftermarket filters.
So even if the warranty allows the car owners to do their own oil changes, the type of oil and filter combination that is used (in the long run) can potentially turn out to be a dealbreaker come warranty claim time.
Micweb - Thanks for the vote of confidence
I'll definitely shell out an extra $5/year as opposed to $3000 and up for a new engine...
A friend of mine uses the Mobil 1 filters on his Volvo (which he would highly recommend). I also heard good reviews about the Wix filters as well.
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml
Now, I know that no one is going to eliminate their filters but a good quality filter with a very high quality oil is all you need. With todays oils and engines the days of filters being full of dirt and debris and sludge are over. It really makes no diff what filter you use as long as it is not a Fram.
you still have blow-by that seats the rings on the pistons on the power stroke, and that still puts combustion product crud in the oil. if you can't get used oil stains out of a white shop towel, doesn't it make sense that some of that slop is going to stay in a filter that is designed to hold it?
I'll take any cleaning edge I get, thanks.
Unfortunately they couldn't rest with just doing an oil change, and kept pushing transmission fluid, radiator coolant, power steering fluid, and what have you changes on her - on her 15,000 mile, 2 year old car. The sad part is, none of their fluids were up to spec, except maybe the coolant (but Chrysler uses a European variant of extended life coolant) which was good for 100,000 miles anyway. For the transmission, they wanted to use Dexron 3 with an "additive" to make it Dexron 3+ compatible; never mind that late model Dodges use Dexron 4, which is a synthetic, once again long life. Allpar has horror stories of damage transmisions from plain olf Dexron 3, and states that tests show that use of an "additive" doesn't make the grade.
So literally their high pressure sales tactics would have actually harmed the car.
Ironically, on the same day, I took my car to a GM dealer and got a $26.05 oil change - less than the quick lube shop - with a real Delco filter, GM/Delco oil (which satisfies GM's new "low pour point" requirement), and no hard sell on other services.
I have also noticed that Jiffy Lube has added "factory maintenance" to their service bays. I have always believed most minor dealer services are just inspections that anyone can perform, now Jiffy Lube has something new to try to push on you.
The manufacturers seal their units except for regular oil change and very occasional changes of other fluids, now the quick lubes are getting away from their early mandate of easy oil changes, and using nonspec fluids to do it.
How sad. There's a "sucker" born every minute, as PT Barnum said. This way to egress....
I change my own oil. It is actually more convenient for me, as I can do it on my own schedule with no waiting, and save about $10-$20 per oil change. End of problems. Oil disposal is done properly at my local city recycling facility.
I have thought about doing it myself, but ironically the easiest place I have found for my own oil changes is the quick lube at a local Honda dealer - they don't publicize it, but they serve other makes.
They told me they aren't on commission...unlike a lot of quick sale (oops, quick change) centers, they are union so they make a decent wage, and they are happy with me bringing in my own oil and filter (Pure One; usually Mobil 1 sometimes Castrol 5-20) and the out the door cost is about $16. Heck they even installed a Sure Drain for me and patiently listened the next time I came back when I asked them not to use a wrench on it...
Why does changing oil have to be such an obstacle course? My Ford is easy, they have a quick lane, but other dealers want the car all day.
A pennzoil dino oil change is $15.88 and synthetic out of bottle (you pick oil) is $27.88. For an extra $3 they check your other fluids, air pressure, and vacuum. Lastly they are super cheap on a rotate without balance ($1.50/tire) $7.50/tire with balance.
Not to say that a dealer or quality independent can't make a mistake, but the quality level of these "quickie" shops can vary greatly.
It seems, once a month we get cars towed in because the oil filter leaked all of the oil out, the drain plug got stripped etc.
Based on the one time I walked into a Wal-Mart store, I know I would feel VERY uncomfortable having them change my oil.
But, that's me. Your experience may vary.
If you think your friend has problems, consider mine: I installed a factory kit aircon unit on my Focus through an aftermarket shop, now there are CEL and engine compartment noise problems. Who do I go to? The independent says the aircon couldn't be causing the problems..but if I take it in for factory warranty work, and the dealer says it is the aftermarket unit, guess who will have to cough up the dough for the inspection etc?
That's why if my dealer has a halfway decent service department I take it to them during warranty for oil changes and services...and take a strong line with them about only doing the factory required service, not what their "local severe service" manual calls for.
You want the dealer to ask a commission only technician to recheck your friends work for free?
I do see your point, however and I hope you see the other side.
It would have been standard practice for them to put the vehicle on the hoist or at least have it checked out, then determine the cause. Once the cause has been determined, then they should have called and told you whether or not it was under warranty. Regardless, it would have been in their best interest to at least check it out.
Now, not only have they lost a customer, but they have also lost that customer's friends.
If they had determined that it was the oil filter, then they should have stated that it wasn't covered under warranty.
Unfortunately, more and more shops are starting to go with the practice that they will charge for everything.
One thing that bothers me is that the dealer has to;
1: verify the complaint.
2:locate the problem.
3: repair/replace component causing the problem.
4:verify the repair.
In order to receive the warranty payment from the manufacturer.
If they cannot complete any of the 4 steps, they don't receive warranty payment.
Although, a GOOD dealer will go ahead and check it out first.