I (foolishly) had the oil in my Taurus changed at Wal-Mart. They put 5 quarts into the cars 4.5 quart capacity engine. Oil is leaking out from somewhere, which is why I noticed their error. Is this something to be worried about? Should I drain out half a quart or just let it be? Thanks for any insights.
I would be surprised that 1/2 quart extra would result in oil leaking out of the engine somewhere. More likely it is coming from something else they did. Check around the oil filter and the drain plug. They could have not tightened one or the other properly, or possibly cross threaded the drain plug which is a more problematic issue.
I assume your Taurus is with the base Vulcan or Vulcan FFV engine, right? The 3.0 Duratech DOHC engine takes more like 6 quarts. If I remember right, the manual says 5.5 quarts but to get mine to the full mark on the dipstick it takes 6 quarts, but I am doing it from memory, not having the manual in front of me at the moment.
I checked my 2000 Taurus manual last night and for Vulcan Taurus the manual states 4.5 quarts with filter change and for Duratech Tauri it states 5.5 quarts with filter change. But if I fill the Duratech with 5.5 quarts, it does not reach the top of the operating range crosshatching on the dipstick, it is in the middle. So 5.5 is probably OK, but 6 gets it to the top of the crosshatching.
I always change my filter with every oil change. Doing it myself, I am already saving $15-$20 per change, so why not change the filter? At about $3-$4 per filter it is cheap enough.
I could not agree more with your solution to the problems created by oil and filter change service providers. Any able-bodied person can learn how to provide this service for their own vehicles, and should do so to protect their vehicles from this very common source of trouble.
Apparently a common malady. Recently went to my local J Lube and they cross-threaded the plug. Of course the next time I went in they didn't tell me they just loosened the filter and drained the oil that way, leaving whatever wouldn't drain in the crank - case and sending me on my way. I just happened to take it to a different J Shop & they told me plug was stripped and to take it back to orig shop. Orig shop denied ANY responsibility. Could not get Orig plug out for anything: Result new oil pan - Cost about $300 plus labor...then the new pan didn't seal right..gasket leak Grrr.
Count your blessings. As a buddy of mine found out, that "$300" oil pan will cost well North of $1k by the time you've removed the exhaust pipe that runs right under it on some engines... Ford truck straight-six is a prime offender here, and not the only one... No quickie lube for me, thanks, I just don't have the time. -Mathias
I suspect the underlying philosophical problem is that changing oil-and-filter is just too simple of a task. The person providing the service cannot help but "go on autopilot" from time to time, and that leads to errors of routine.
Several days ago, I noted on the television news that the Honda CRV does, in fact, have an oil filter fitment problem. I did not see the entire piece, but apparently there have been several fires that are attributed to leaking oil at the filter gasket. I understand that Honda does not currently intend to do a recall.
Also, I am sorry to say that after a three-store search, I am forced to assume that Walmart Supertech filters are no longer available in the ST-16 configuration, which fits many Chrysler Corporation and Jeep vehicles. I hope I am wrong.
I've not seen a supertech oil filter, but you may want to actually use a decent filter. If you do a search, you can find an oil filter study, where a guy actually cut open a bunch of filters, and did some comparisons. Fram was the worst filter. Most of the fram filters, had a string around the filter element, that was too tight, which caused the filter to actually rip. Ripped filter = no filtering. I think I remember some other tests showed the filter went into bypass mode after only 500 miles....
I'm not sayin spend 10 bucks on a Mobil-1 filter, but at least get like a purolator or something. Your engine will thank you later....
Supertech filters are made by Champion Laboratories. I am convinced by what I have read that they meet or exceed the quality parameters set by all major manufacturers of motor vehicles. I cannot find any evidence to the contrary. They are likely the biggest bargain on the filter market today.
Anyone else go to a dealer to have oil changed recently? I did and was told they have to use synthetic oil. Doubles the cost of oil change of course. Recent communique from VW talks about extending warranty on 98-04 Passats because of sludge build ups, if oil changes not done on 5000 mile interval. Anyone else as confused as I am about the need for sythetics if you follow recommend schedule?
I dunno - it seems pretty clear. VWoA wants a 5,000 mile or 6 month oil change interval using oil that meets VW spec 502 in a 5w-40 or 0w-40 multigrade (with, I think one excpetion). To meet that spec, you'll be using synthetic oil.
I suggest that you bring your own synth for the changes, to save some money.
It's only $12.68 for a four quart (yes, four, not five, quarts) jug at Walmart for Rotella full synthetic 5-40. It is aimed at the diesel market but satisfies the SL spec. I don't think they ran the VW sequence to certify it, so you might be at risk on that point (read your owners manual and see if they spell out that spec). I am sure it qualifies (diesels are hotter and dirtier than gas engines). Ironically, in the VW TDI (turbo diesels) they use the same 5-40 full synthetic oil as in the gas turbos, even though that is primarily a gas spec'd oil. (Most oils are rated for both gas and diesel, with a higher rating for one use than the other).
Personally during the warranty period I'd just bite the bullet and use what VW recommends. If you bring in your own oil, they won't write up what you brought in, so you will need to keep the oil receipt for records. VW also apparently replaces the drain plug at every oil change, necessary for keeping the oil pan from being stripped. Finally, VW oil filters are designed for longer life than your typical oil shop filters.
I am facing the same dilemma on my 2004 Golf, 2.0 normally aspirated. The manual actually calls for 5-40, with 5-30 only as a fallback. As the earlier poster noted, 5-40 means synthetic. If this Golf doesn't consume oil, I'll just use the dealers synthetic (at their higher prices) until out of the warranty period, or at least far enough into it to know there are no problems on the horizon.
If it burns oil like my 2001 Golf did, I'll fall into the dilemma of replacing up to 3 quarts of oil between 5,000 mile changes (although the non-turbo is authorized for 10,000 mile changes - once again assuming synthetic - I won't go that far without an oil change and filter) which would be terribly expensive with dealer Syntec oil (this grade is only sold by VW dealers, apparently, for about $10 a bottle). In that case I would carry in my own Mobil 1 0-40, which is only $5 a bottle at Kragen (don't see it at Walmart yet). It's not so much so I can save $20 on the dealer's oil during the change, as to be able to use Mobil 1 for mid-oil change top ups.
And oh yeah, if no one mentioned it, with VW's you REALLY need to check for oil consumption. It will settle into some level of regular usage - my former 2.0 started out using a quart every 1,000 and then settled into a quart about every 1,500 - 2,000. My current 2.0 hasn't used a drop in the first 1,000 miles (knock on wood).
Based on my 2001 experience, cutting corners on service with VW's is not a good idea. They last a long time with factory service, but unlike Toyotas don't take kindly to poor service or no service.
I change the oil in my 04 Passat TDI and use Rotella synthetic 5-40, regardless of what VW says. I have researched many of the diesel and TDI online forums and the consensus seems to be that it's the best out there. When I had my 98 Jetta TDI, I switched to Rotella synthetic from Rotella regular at about 65k miles and immediately noticed a significant decrease in oil consumption My Passat consumes very little, if any, oil between changes. Also, with regard to changing the drain plug, I use a "top-sider" vacuum pump, which sucks the oil out of the dip-stick shaft, thus eliminating the need to even remove the drain plug in the first place. This method is especially convenient if your VW's oil filter is accessible from under the hood, as is mine. Anyway, just thought I'd add my 2 cents.....
Do what you want with the Rotella, but just be aware that using an oil not meeting VW spec 502.00 could be grounds for not honoring the warranty should your engine sludge up. Also, exceeding the mileage and time interval also could give VW similar grounds.
I find it hard to fathom that a VW needs a new drain plug every time one is removed from the pan. That makes no conceivable sense to me. If sludging is a known VW problem, I'd certainly entertain changing the oil far sooner than 5000 miles. But then, I'd change it at 3000 to 3500 along with a new filter regardless, I must admit. And todd53, I would urge you to drain the oil, hot, from the plug hole at least once in a while, to gain the advantage of washing out particulates that might be lurking in the pan floor.
"Oil sludge is a big problem and VW doesn't take responsibilty for this issue."
I certainly don't want to discount your experiences or your anger, but in hundreds of VW lemon law cases, on recent models, of course, I've never seen a complaint for this or heard of it until now.
This just adds ammunition to the good sense of changing the oil and filter every 3000 to 3500 miles, even when a manufacturer says you can go longer. It just isn't worth the risk.
relieve VW of any liability, no matter how wrong or unfair it may seem -
As the vehicle manufacturer, they set the standards by which you have to maintain the product. If you don't maintain the product to their standards (overly generous to begin with!), you lose - plain and simple.
Freaking out and giving people grief just guarantees that no service manager will make an exception for you.
If an owner had used 3k-3.5k even with cheap dino the 1.8T would likely be fine. The problem is that owners stretched the interval past 5k with subpar oil and this engine is harder on the oil. I am willing to bet that VW will find maybe less 0.5% of failures occured with owners using the properly speced synthetic oil(even at slightly extended intervals) or those changing the oil every 3k with dino.
Actually a properly designed turbo engine using appropriate oil works fine. The reason for the failures in the 1.8T has little to do with the turbo, as you say "frying" the oil has little to do with sludging. Sludging occurs when older worn out oil changes properties and thickens to were it can no longer flow. The 1.8T has a design flaw in it were its just hard on oil and conventional oil can't hold up when pressed.
Isn't faster oil deterioration due to hot spots in the engine. That's what I read one place about Toyota's problems. The heat breaks down the oil. That's the reason you change oil often!!!
Sludging rarely happens unless the oci interval is stretched. Ie owners who follow normal schedule when they really should do the severe schedule. Yes changing oil more often can obviously help.
Use synthetic and VW will maintain the 8yr/unlimited mileage against sludge. I know $65 is steep for oil changes however this ranges. If you trust a quick lube then try Walmart. They install synthetic for $31 and in my local one you can choose the oil since they just use bottles.
If a garage has the $20 change, bring a jug of Mobil 1 synthetic (cost $20) and ask them to use that. I will start doing this with my Subaru WRX. The dealer charges $22.00 for an oil change and will install supplied oil. So $42 is not so bad.
Turbo systems get very hot in various parts of the engine. This heat causes changes in the chemical structure of the oil, little by little. It relates most generally to oil pooled in the vicinity of the turbo when the engine is shut off hot. Many turbos are cooled down a bit by circulating engine coolant to locations where it can absorb some of the heat. I owned a Chrysler turbo some years ago. Somewhere I was advised to not just shut off the engine when it was very hot, but rather to idle the engine for a short while and then turn it off. I changed oil and filters at 3000 mile intervals using mineral oils and common, good filters. I never had a problem with the turbo or the oil in the 90+ thousand miles accumulated before trading it in. The brand new Chevy I traded for was a another story-- a bad story.
The intercooler cools incoming air to the turbo since colder air is and produces more power than hot air. The turbo is cooled by oil and coolant as you state.
Not quite. Compressing any gas, including air, raises it's temperature. The intercooler is plumbed between the turbo and intake manifold to cool the air AFTER it's been compressed by the turbo. This increases the density of the air and the amount of oxygen per cubic foot of air ingested.
Cooling the air mass gives more power, as you so well described, alcan. Other plumbing in the system cools the oil in turbocharged cars, if I understand the situation correctly. But at any rate, turbos can seriously overheat oil, particularly after shutdown. The longevity of the turbo system itself, often related to lubrication of the turbo, was a weak point a couple decades ago. I wonder how they fair these days.
I was at Walmart and tried to find the recommended Synthetic Oils. I only found 1 brand that met VW specs....I think it was Valvoline Synpower 5W 30. No other brand had the recommended Viscosity. Should I shop at a Pep Boys or AutoZone? Walmart didn't even have Mobile 1 in the correct weight.
Mobil 1 has two oils that are likely candidates for the 1.8 VW turbo - the 5-40 for "truck, suvs, diesels" and the 0-40 for "european cars."
Both "should" satisfy the VW requirement but only the 0-40 says so in the fine print on the back of the bottle. So although the 0-40 appears to be out of spec - 0w instead of 5w - it isn't. It just flows better when cold.
My dealer always used full synthetic on tthe turbos.
I always follow the "severe service" or "conservative" manufacturers oil change recommendations - on my non-turbo 2.0, I do 5,000 mile oil changes because the manual says 10,000 is ok. BTW, the 10,000 is based on using VW spec oil, which is 5-40, which is full synthetic. If you use their "ok if not available" oil weight, 5-30, you've still got to use synthetic. That's the trick.
VW isn't clear on the need for synthetic because they don't want to make it look like their car is expensive to operate. Same reason they say, for the 2.0, that premium gas is recommended but regular is "ok."
My dealer has a sign at the service counter advising turbo owners they must use premium (it is a definited requirement for the turbos) and VW is not responsible if they use regular. This sign wasn't there last time...I think owners, hit with the high price of gas, have been cutting corners recently.
A VW is not an economy car, not a Camry or Accord. It has always had "european" performance at a bargain price, but it has some specific coolant, oil, gas, and service requirements. They aren't onerous, but they need to be followed.
I hate to say it, but my suspicion is that some owners have been putting dino oil in their turbos instead of synthetic. 5-40 is hard to find. For that matter, nowadays most owners don't even read their owners manuals.
And yeah, VW ownership is higher maintenance than some cars - VW increased the tire pressure requirement from the 26 psi on my 2001 model to 32 psi on my current model - same car, same brand and size of tires - just wanted to add a safety margin, I guess - but they never sent me a notice, my dealer's service department never advised me. You really have to look out for yourself, and not rely on even the dealer. Caveat emptor!
"I hate to say it, but my suspicion is that some owners have been putting dino oil in their turbos instead of synthetic."
There's plenty of evidence that many dealers were dumping in dino oil in grades from 5w-30 to 20w-50 into the 1.8T, at least prior to the recent announcement.
Altair4 is right. Many dealer are or were putting 10w30 or other incorrect weights into 1.8 T Passats. My own 2003 1.8t got 10w30 the first two times I got my oil changed at Jim Ellis, they used 10w30, so I stopped letting them do it. I do it myself now and get my 5w40 at NAPA.
It takes me about 1 hour to do the turbo, start to finish (the filter is a pain to remove). The best part is, I don't have to leave it at the dealer for day or two for a simple oil change. It isn't all about money. The time it takes to get the thing serviced at the dealer is a pain too.
Plus, when I do it myself, I know it's done right, and I know I've checked all of the fluids, etc. And yes, I've saved all of my receipts for oil from NAPA. I get my filters from the dealer and save those receipts as well.
When I bought my 2003 1.8T and reading about 5W40 requirement in User's Manual I asked the dealer what they are using. They answer was - regular stuff. I always brought a case o Mobil 1 0W40 with me.
I pointed out to my dealer's service dept. that the manual called for this strange 5-40 oil, and that only seemed to be available in synthetic, and so I planned to get the synthetic oil changes at the dealer...and the dealer said "why would I want to do that?"
I swear, VWOA and its dealers seem destined to shoot themselves in the foot.
Well engineered in Germany, built in near-third world countries, and serviced in definitely third world dealerships.
Comments
I assume your Taurus is with the base Vulcan or Vulcan FFV engine, right? The 3.0 Duratech DOHC engine takes more like 6 quarts. If I remember right, the manual says 5.5 quarts but to get mine to the full mark on the dipstick it takes 6 quarts, but I am doing it from memory, not having the manual in front of me at the moment.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I always change my filter with every oil change. Doing it myself, I am already saving $15-$20 per change, so why not change the filter? At about $3-$4 per filter it is cheap enough.
As a buddy of mine found out, that "$300" oil pan will cost well North of $1k by the time you've removed the exhaust pipe that runs right under it on some engines... Ford truck straight-six is a prime offender here, and not the only one...
No quickie lube for me, thanks, I just don't have the time.
-Mathias
Also, I am sorry to say that after a three-store search, I am forced to assume that Walmart Supertech filters are no longer available in the ST-16 configuration, which fits many Chrysler Corporation and Jeep vehicles. I hope I am wrong.
I'm not sayin spend 10 bucks on a Mobil-1 filter, but at least get like a purolator or something. Your engine will thank you later....
I'd like to see more than one, although I can believe the one if it was the Bob's site?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I suggest that you bring your own synth for the changes, to save some money.
Personally during the warranty period I'd just bite the bullet and use what VW recommends. If you bring in your own oil, they won't write up what you brought in, so you will need to keep the oil receipt for records. VW also apparently replaces the drain plug at every oil change, necessary for keeping the oil pan from being stripped. Finally, VW oil filters are designed for longer life than your typical oil shop filters.
I am facing the same dilemma on my 2004 Golf, 2.0 normally aspirated. The manual actually calls for 5-40, with 5-30 only as a fallback. As the earlier poster noted, 5-40 means synthetic. If this Golf doesn't consume oil, I'll just use the dealers synthetic (at their higher prices) until out of the warranty period, or at least far enough into it to know there are no problems on the horizon.
If it burns oil like my 2001 Golf did, I'll fall into the dilemma of replacing up to 3 quarts of oil between 5,000 mile changes (although the non-turbo is authorized for 10,000 mile changes - once again assuming synthetic - I won't go that far without an oil change and filter) which would be terribly expensive with dealer Syntec oil (this grade is only sold by VW dealers, apparently, for about $10 a bottle). In that case I would carry in my own Mobil 1 0-40, which is only $5 a bottle at Kragen (don't see it at Walmart yet). It's not so much so I can save $20 on the dealer's oil during the change, as to be able to use Mobil 1 for mid-oil change top ups.
And oh yeah, if no one mentioned it, with VW's you REALLY need to check for oil consumption. It will settle into some level of regular usage - my former 2.0 started out using a quart every 1,000 and then settled into a quart about every 1,500 - 2,000. My current 2.0 hasn't used a drop in the first 1,000 miles (knock on wood).
Based on my 2001 experience, cutting corners on service with VW's is not a good idea. They last a long time with factory service, but unlike Toyotas don't take kindly to poor service or no service.
I change the oil in my 04 Passat TDI and use Rotella synthetic 5-40, regardless of what VW says. I have researched many of the diesel and TDI online forums and the consensus seems to be that it's the best out there. When I had my 98 Jetta TDI, I switched to Rotella synthetic from Rotella regular at about 65k miles and immediately noticed a significant decrease in oil consumption My Passat consumes very little, if any, oil between changes. Also, with regard to changing the drain plug, I use a "top-sider" vacuum pump, which sucks the oil out of the dip-stick shaft, thus eliminating the need to even remove the drain plug in the first place. This method is especially convenient if your VW's oil filter is accessible from under the hood, as is mine. Anyway, just thought I'd add my 2 cents.....
And todd53, I would urge you to drain the oil, hot, from the plug hole at least once in a while, to gain the advantage of washing out particulates that might be lurking in the pan floor.
My car seized (with out warning) and now I have a $6,000 repair bill.
I certainly don't want to discount your experiences or your anger, but in hundreds of VW lemon law cases, on recent models, of course, I've never seen a complaint for this or heard of it until now.
This IS a big problem. Do a web search and it is everywhere.
Volkswagen is HORRIBLE to deal with.
I am NOT having my engine fixed.
Sell your Passat NOW!
Fatal mistake - you violated your portion and responsibilities of the warranty - cut and dried - they had a requirement, and you didn't meet it.
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
As the vehicle manufacturer, they set the standards by which you have to maintain the product. If you don't maintain the product to their standards (overly generous to begin with!), you lose - plain and simple.
Freaking out and giving people grief just guarantees that no service manager will make an exception for you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It was recommended that Passat owners use synthetic oil (are the oil changes using synthetic really $65.00 approx.?)
Can you "standard" oil still be used?
If a garage has the $20 change, bring a jug of Mobil 1 synthetic (cost $20) and ask them to use that. I will start doing this with my Subaru WRX. The dealer charges $22.00 for an oil change and will install supplied oil. So $42 is not so bad.
Both "should" satisfy the VW requirement but only the 0-40 says so in the fine print on the back of the bottle. So although the 0-40 appears to be out of spec - 0w instead of 5w - it isn't. It just flows better when cold.
My dealer always used full synthetic on tthe turbos.
I always follow the "severe service" or "conservative" manufacturers oil change recommendations - on my non-turbo 2.0, I do 5,000 mile oil changes because the manual says 10,000 is ok. BTW, the 10,000 is based on using VW spec oil, which is 5-40, which is full synthetic. If you use their "ok if not available" oil weight, 5-30, you've still got to use synthetic. That's the trick.
VW isn't clear on the need for synthetic because they don't want to make it look like their car is expensive to operate. Same reason they say, for the 2.0, that premium gas is recommended but regular is "ok."
My dealer has a sign at the service counter advising turbo owners they must use premium (it is a definited requirement for the turbos) and VW is not responsible if they use regular. This sign wasn't there last time...I think owners, hit with the high price of gas, have been cutting corners recently.
A VW is not an economy car, not a Camry or Accord. It has always had "european" performance at a bargain price, but it has some specific coolant, oil, gas, and service requirements. They aren't onerous, but they need to be followed.
I hate to say it, but my suspicion is that some owners have been putting dino oil in their turbos instead of synthetic. 5-40 is hard to find. For that matter, nowadays most owners don't even read their owners manuals.
And yeah, VW ownership is higher maintenance than some cars - VW increased the tire pressure requirement from the 26 psi on my 2001 model to 32 psi on my current model - same car, same brand and size of tires - just wanted to add a safety margin, I guess - but they never sent me a notice, my dealer's service department never advised me. You really have to look out for yourself, and not rely on even the dealer. Caveat emptor!
"I hate to say it, but my suspicion is that some owners have been putting dino oil in their turbos instead of synthetic."
There's plenty of evidence that many dealers were dumping in dino oil in grades from 5w-30 to 20w-50 into the 1.8T, at least prior to the recent announcement.
It takes me about 1 hour to do the turbo, start to finish (the filter is a pain to remove). The best part is, I don't have to leave it at the dealer for day or two for a simple oil change. It isn't all about money. The time it takes to get the thing serviced at the dealer is a pain too.
Plus, when I do it myself, I know it's done right, and I know I've checked all of the fluids, etc. And yes, I've saved all of my receipts for oil from NAPA. I get my filters from the dealer and save those receipts as well.
I always brought a case o Mobil 1 0W40 with me.
Krzys
I swear, VWOA and its dealers seem destined to shoot themselves in the foot.
Well engineered in Germany, built in near-third world countries, and serviced in definitely third world dealerships.