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But, I'm with mstem, the Avalon outshines them all. Size wise, inside and out my Avy is exactly the same as the LS430. And, in my opinion gives as good or better a smooth quiet ride than the others. Even the LS430 had wind noise greater than my Avy, at least in my opinion. I believe consumer reports give the new GS only fair ratings. If not for the Avy I probably would have bought the ES330.
With just over 7000 trouble free miles on my Avy I am more excited about this car today than the day I bought it. I am proud to compare my Avy to an LS430 and challenge others to test drive both vehicles and make up their own minds as to which vehicle offers the best bang for the buck. While my Avy may not have the "Name" of an upscale vehicle, who cares? I have about 30K more sitting in my savings account and have as good a ride as I'll ever need.
Hertz car rentals even has the Avalon in their fleet of rentals. I drove an XLE for two weeks and was very impressed with its performance.
My prediction is Avalon gets 2006 car of the year.
Ever since Toyota when to this trottle by wire setup, all Toyota models with that setup have a software problem and at least occasionally you feel like you are on a bucking bronco. Try accerating from 5-10 mph when you have not came to a complete stop and you will more than likely see what I mean. Electronics may be fine for some, but I would rather have the old manual linkage.
Today, I asked the Toyota Dealer Service Department to document the hesitation of my Limited Avalon and each owner get a copy of said documentation. The reason being, if I am involbed in an accident reselting in property damage or bodly injury that I can hold Toyota personally liable. I suggust that Avalon owners of 2005 and 2003 notify their dealers accordingly. If they are not concerned about the hesitation problem just maybe they will be concerned about possible lawsuits and correct the problem. This documentation can become important in transmission issue after the warranty has expired.
Not so sure about car of the year, however - the automotive press tends to favor cars of more sporting natures, which is too bad, because in terms of VALUE the Av is tough to beat.
I was considering the M35 (also a great car) at $45k with some options - but ended up spending 30 on my Touring. Tell you what - we'll take our combined 45 large and laugh all the way back to the bank. After that, we can both start feeling sorry for those who simply HAVE to have that 'NAME' - maybe over a bottle of some good, expensive wine!
I would love to buy a new Avalon, but can't even find one without a moonroof to try out. Looking at the specs, only the XL and Touring come with the no-moonroof option. Since I would like leather, that narrows it down to Touring (I think), and the dealer says they all come with the moonroof unless they do a special order.
I would also like to have the Power Driver's Seat Extension, but it's only available on the Limited; the Limited only comes with a moonroof, so I have given up on that option.
Any tall drivers who have resolved this dilemma?
TOYOTA RETAIL SALES
(INCLUDES FLEET & HAWAII)
September, 2005
-- CURRENT MONTH -- -- CALENDAR YEAR TO DATE --
DSR % DSR %
2005 2004 CHG 2005 2004 CHG
AVALON 8,707 2,348 270.8 70,120 28,678 145.6
Toyota website. Can anyone confirm that the sales person is correct. Thanks.
I had mine installed by my dealer and it looked really good(they charged me $80!).
However, when I wanted to wash my car and raised the hood to take it off, I discovered the s hooks for the mask were under that plastic cover that goes from the grill to the engine. I couldn't get to them to unhook them and didn't want to take off that plastic piece. So I went back to the dealership and the service guy I talked to this time said he would have advised me not to have installed it. They had broken the little button clips that hold the plastic piece in place, and he said yes that piece had to be taken off each time I wanted to take the mask on and off and also the license plate had to be removed! I would have to get a bunch of extra little button clips because they would break each time the cover was removed. Anyway, I just had him take it off and I'll not be using it because I won't be able to take it on and off. I can't return it because when they installed it, they threw away the box it came in and Autoweb won't take it back unless it is returned in the original packaging. So take my advice and DON'T get the front end mask for your new Avalon! I just threw away about $250! This service guy also said he would not recommend the 3M clear cover. So I guess I'll just have to live with rock chips!
I had mine installed by my dealer and it looked really good(they charged me $80!).
However, when I wanted to wash my car and raised the hood to take it off, I discovered the s hooks for the mask were under that plastic cover that goes from the grill to the engine. I couldn't get to them to unhook them and didn't want to take off that plastic piece. So I went back to the dealership and the service guy I talked to this time said he would have advised me not to have installed it. They had broken the little button clips that hold the plastic piece in place, and he said yes that piece had to be taken off each time I wanted to take the mask on and off and also the license plate had to be removed! I would have to get a bunch of extra little button clips because they would break each time the cover was removed. Anyway, I just had him take it off and I'll not be using it because I won't be able to put it on and take it off. I can't return it because when they installed it, they threw away the box it came in and Autoweb won't take it back unless it is returned in the original packaging. So take my advice and DON'T get the front end mask for your new Avalon! I just threw away about $250! This service guy also said he would not recommend the 3M clear cover. So I guess I'll just have to live with rock chips!
A lawsuit over the alleged tranny hesitation?? The lawyer will love you.
There is no comparison!
----------- -----------Avalon Ltd -----------Lexus LS 430
MSRP ----------- ----------- $33,815 -----------$56,525
Invoice ----------- ----------- $29,757 -----------$49,176
Engine ----------- -----------V6 3.5 liters -----------V8 4.3 liters
Horsepower -----------268 hp @ 6200 rpm -----------278 hp @ 5600 rpm
Driver Seat Heated ----------- Standard -----------Optional
Driver Seat Ventilated -----------Standard ----------- Not Available
Passenger Seat Heated -----------Standard -----------Optional
Passenger Seat Ventilated -----------Standard -----------Not Available
Total Number of Speakers -----------12 ----------- ----------- 7
Watts ----------- ----------- -----------360 ----------- -----------178
Length ----------- ----------- -----------197.2 in -----------197.4 in.
Width ----------- ----------- -----------72.8 in -----------72 in.
Height ----------- ----------- -----------58.5 in -----------58.7 in.
Front Headroom ----------- -----------38.8 in -----------38.1 in.
Rear Headroom ----------- -----------37.5 in -----------37.9 in.
Front Leg Room ----------- -----------41.3 in -----------44 in.
Rear Leg Room ----------- -----------40.9 in -----------37.6 in.
Weight ----------- ----------- -----------3600 lbs -----------3990 lbs.
0-60 mph ----------- ----------- -----------6.5 sec -----------7.0 sec?
EPA Mileage Estimate City ----------- 22 mpg -----------18 mpg
Highway ----------- ----------- -----------31 mpg -----------25 mpg
Fuel Type ----------- -----------regular unleaded -----------premium unleaded
See? No comparison!
havalongavalon
But you don't get the Lexus emblems with the Avalon---the emblems are worth the $24,000 more for the Lexus--and the Lexus gets 10 extra hp.
I have an '06 Avalon Limited with NAV system. The vehicle does NOT have BlueTooth capability. Your salesman is uninformed (imagine that!...) It is an absolutely fantastic vehicle, but native BlueTooth is not part of the package now.
Mike
To be fair, the 430 is a dynamically superior ride, has real wood trim, and should impress your neighbors. The real cost of the namplate, however, gets a lot closer to 30 grand comparing prices for each car as it is usually bought!
Yes, exactly, you got the point of this comparison. Lexus gets 10 extra hp to push 300 extra lb.
Since you know Chryslers, here is another thought: Will the Big Lexus someday go the way of the Chrysler Imperial?
havalongavalon
havalongavalon
I don't think so. The LS430 has a touch screen nav doesn't it?
The transmission/engine management system appears to try to synchronize engine speed/road speed/transmission gear at times (usually at light-throttle load), and it revs the engine with no corresponding increase in road speed, until the engine speed coincides with a shift point invoking a CVT-like feeling. There is no actual hesitation or slip, however because the engine speed is increasing automatically and there is no corresponding forward motion, I am lead to believe that people may perceive this as "hesitation", unlike the Camry/Lexus ES problem where the transmission actually paused on acceleration.
In my opinion, this somewhat unusual transmission behavior is more a matter of the driver learning the habits of the transmission rather than the transmission "learning" the driver's habits, as Toyota prefer to say. Initially this phenomenon appeared strange to me, but now I know how the car behaves and when it does this synchronization, it doesn't bother me at all. Just a bit different, thats all. I don't think anyone should be deterred from buying an Avalon because of this. Perhaps Toyota designed in just a little too much intelligence and automation where it would be best left alone... This is software controlled so I anticipate Toyota will eventually change this if too many drivers find it disturbing.
I agree . . . . however:
If he/she has indeed stolen the Avalon, he/she already has something of greater value than everything they will find at my residence combined.
It will be almost as easy to look up the address on the registration papers.
In my state, for $10 charged to a credit card, anyone can phone the registry and obtain the owners' name and address for a registration plate number (this service is a big revenue generator for the government).
The registered position is not that precise, because the homes in my neighborhood are set back ~100 ft from the road; if they use the fake registered address, it does not exist.
I should have said "That system appears to be a virtual mirror to that in the Avalon, other than the obvious touch screen."
The point of my initial email was not to compare the value of the Ltd to the LS430, but only to point out they appear to have very similar navigation systems.
Perhaps someone out there can objectively compare the two systems.
alan_s,
You have provided the best description I've seen to this date.
havalongavalon
My family traveled to Buffalo for a sporting event over a weekend. I used the Nav to find the hotel, took me right to the parking lot entrance, and programmed in the address for the arena we would be going to for the next couple of days. All things I could have done from Map Quest but I used my Nav because I had it.
Once we were there and there were 3 other cars in our group, we decided to go to different restaurants for lunches and dinners, and without a PC with us, it was as easy as looking up the address in the phone book when we made our reservations and keying that into the Nav. I was like the Pied Piper, everyone would pull out of the parking lot and follow me to our destinations. Another nice feature that you don't get on Map Quest is when you are traveling, it will give you the advance warning to turn right 1 tenth of a mile... and then double beep at the turn, this is especially helpful on dark streets or when the street signs are missing, bent, defaced, or otherwise unreadable in the dark. Knowing to get in the left lane ahead is helpful in strange areas, been in the right lane too many times when a left turn comes up sooner than expected.
So you wanted some opinions, mine is real life, also used it later in the summer on a driving trip to Florida for vacation, again, not having to have a PC or access to one for Map Quest makes Nav a God send because when on vacation I don't like to plan too much and go with the flow, and being able to just look up an address in the Yellow pages or call and get an address is miles ahead of using online map services.
That said, I wish Lexus/Toyota would send out a survey to we owners asking for our input for improvements to the system. It would be so simple to do via email.
Unfortunately, in these forums, it is often difficult to determine whether negative comments are coming from owners with first hand experience relating to the subject vehicles or merely from another with a different agenda.
Mike
jayvis, I had much the same thought until I began using my GPS. Much like a microwave, I would not be without it in the future. It is an excellent complement to Google Maps (BTW, G.M. is much better than Map Quest or Map Blast). I purchased an inexpensive Garmin c330 GPS and am using it without cables. If anyone wants to know how I did this, ask me. One advantage is I have simultaneous access to my GPS and the Avalon info display.
With the imminent proliferation of free Wi-Fi, I anticipate that mobile nav systems will be superceded very shortly by an integrated industry-standard PC (Linux??) connected to the internet via Wi-Fi with GPS-based positioning superimposed on existing browser-presented Google/Mapquest type maps - with text-to-speech. All currently available technology. The cost of these nav systems will likely be a couple of hundred dollars, plus perhaps a monthly satellite access fee.
Thats what my crystal ball says, anyway.
I just purchased the Magellan Roadmate 300 from ebay and am awaiting its arrival within the next day or two. I would be interested in knowing about your installation method. My husband is good with wiring techniques. I didn't purchase the NAV in my LTD because we don't travel that much (We have a child that runs college track). It will come in handy for finding the colleges, hotels, and restaurants in different cities when we do hit the road.
Don't let Lexus put a fast one on you. It's still a Toyota, with a fantastic marketing system behind it.
BTW, your LS430 is nothing but a Toyota Celsior in the big J.
Steve
Firstly, the LS 430 does NOT get 7 seconds. Anybody who thinks that has clearly made up the number! Try 6.4 seconds (some say 5.9 secs. but I cannot find the source)! LS gets RWD and an air ride suspension as well, not FWD like the Avalon. The coefficient of drag for the LS 430 is 0.25 which is the best in its class.
Second, the LS 430 has heated and air-conditioned seats, they ARE available as an option. Also, your Avalons have ventilated, not air-conditioned; there is a difference. Not only are the front seats heated standard but rear seats are heated standard. link title
You also get a refrigerator for champagne, etc. in the rear armrest. The rear seats get a massaging chairs. Real wood is appointed on the LS, not fake wood like the Avalon (the Avalon's fake wood has gotta be the best kind in the industry, however).
You also get Mark Levinson stereo. This is a taaaaad better than JBL. They are both owned by Harman International, however the ML system is the ultra audiophile division of the company. You do NOT get a better amp or speakers with the JBL synthesis system, rather, a worse one. And to boot it is a 240 Watt system with less distortion than the JBL one providing much more rich sound. This is rated at .01% distortion. The wattage on the JBL system is at .10% distortion I believe? You will get a much lower wattage rating from the JBL if you measure at .01%. And oh yea, it is 11 speakers, not 7.
The Avalon is a very nice car, don't get me wrong, it just doesn't compare with the LS. My guess is that you have never test driven it? You should.
I don't know what else to say... just research the car a little better before you make a comparison like that.
msavalon, you can view photos of my cordless, portable GPS installation at:
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaAvalon/regis2006avalon.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=41
There are 5 photos so just choose next or previous to view all. I should mention that this will only work if your GPS has an internal battery like that in the Garmin c330.
"My RX300 was sold in Japan as the Toyota Harrier, same car, different name and marketing... BTW, your LS430 is nothing but a Toyota Celsior in the big J."
So? And this is a bad thing? BTW, the RX330 in Japan as the Harrier have the same appointments. There is also a Kluger, the Highlander, which are identical to each other. The Harrier is a step up from the Kruger, just like the RX is a step up from the Highlander.
Good luck finding a car on the Toyota line-up that has the same features as the Lexus LS! You will find a lot of Toyota cars in Japan like the Crown that have features that you will only find in Maybachs and only in top-trimmed S-Classes and 7-Series. Does this STILL mean that Lexus's are just nothing more than rebadged Toyota's? Yes, I guess. But does this mean that Lexus's are nothing better than the rest of the luxury industry and are unjustified in their prices? NO! They consistently offer more than their counterparts at a better price.
There will be no model sharing between Toyota and Lexus from 2007 and on with exception to the ES model. The next generation LS will no longer be a Celsior in Japan. The IS is no longer an Altezza, and the GS is no longer an Aristo.
This is a Toyota Crown (full outfitted with fold-out, padded, leather footrests that come out of the front seats, refridgerator box in the rear seat armrest, Mark Levinson audio, etc.):
These pics don't even do the car anywhere near justice but it gives an idea. This car does not come to other markets as a Lexus.
Noticed you have a wood steering wheel on your XLS. Did you have that added or is that just another thing that comes with the cars shipped north (along with the front plate bracket)?
beeman4u
They could say that the Toyota cars would interfere with the Lexus line-up here. However, they are selling Lexus's in Japan now and will have a dedicated Lexus line-up as well from 2007-on. The Crown and Mark X, as well as the Bravis are Lexus-grade cars so why not cross those out and let the luxury division of Toyota deal with that market? Who know... all I know is that the Mark X is a very nice car and I wish they brought it here too.
Love the Avalon and debating whether that or the IS 250/350 will be my next car, but this is what they should have brought instead of the Avalon as well...
Mark X!
My Avalon is called a XLS and priced at $39,900. In Canada, we don't have a Limited model. But there are two option packages, A and B. B package is priced at $3,575 and adds VSC, TRAC, BA (brake assist), JBL with 12 speakers, Compact Disk with changer, DSP? (still don't know what that is), RDS, 8 channel amp., sub woofer, Leather & wood wheel.
A package includes the same upgrades as B but adds the Nav. for an additional $3,350! (can you believe they are soaking us $3,350 fot their Nav. in Canada)
Our Cdn cars all come with heated seats (not cooled), splash guards, locking wheel nuts and front license plate bracket as standard equipment.