2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

regis

mikegiller, how did you get these photos added to your post?

mikegiller

DSP is a digital signal processing/processor. This means that you can synthesize sounds like "stadium", "hall", "cathedral", "theatre", etc. It just creates a different environment for sound by adding reverb/echoe, spaciousness, etc. to make it seem like you are either in a smaller or larger room depending on your tastes/mood.

Something like that.

mikegiller

I googled the cars in google images, clicked on the picture, copied the URL, then pasted it in the reply between the the formula for the image button.

tmeframe

OOOH! I've always loved the looks of the Brevis. Funny name, but that's normal for cars in Japan with English names. I just wonder why it never made it over here? It's surely good-looking enough..


Steve Mitchell

fin

This comparison discussion is interesting, but is not reality. The only similarity these cars have (to me) is in size and durability. When you have FWD vs. RWD and a $25k (approx) price differential....where is the serious comparison? Am I missing something?

regis

Tried that but no go.
I copied and pasted the image URL
highlighted and clicked the Img button
This but the image formula at the beginning and end
checked spelling
checked preview but no picture

What am I doing wrong?

wyn

Have a confirmed rattle from sunroof just as you describe. Dealer offered to pull headliner for repair but I delayed hoping for a less invasive Toyota fix before warranty expires. In my case, it is the track as I can reproduce it by slight pressure on the outer track on driver's side with the sunroof open. Your right side rattle may be the much mentioned seat belt buckle hitting side of vehicle. Carefully repositioning solves that problem for me.

pat

Click the Img button, then paste the URL and click the Img button again. That will do it.

(Please make sure the picture is of reasonable size. Very large pictures skew the page and have to be removed.)

05avforum

Here's a question. Given the ease of use of the manual transmission mode of the Avalon, is it a good idea to down shift when coming to a stop at a stoplight? Clearly, this would reduce the wear and tear on the brakes, but I would not want to do it at the expense of the transmission. So the question is, does this type of downshifting (assuming you do it smoothly, without over reving), damage the transmission in any way?

havalongavalon

05avforum,

Downshifting to help reduce speed while in S, is totally fine. In fact, the car does this routinely while in D, for example when you apply the brakes going down a steep hill. While in D, you can verify when automatic downshifts happen by listening to the engine, watching the RPM, or by switching from D to S (you can tell if the gear in use is 4 or a lower gear than 4).

havalongavalon

blaquebyrd

I wish we had the option to the get the wood steering wheel here in the XLS. That is the only option from the Limited I'd like for my XLS.

n0v8or

Damage the transmission? No, Wear the transmission? Yes

Remember the law of conservation of energy from physics.
When you use your brakes to reduce vehicle speed, energy of momentum is converted to heat energy by wearing away some of the frictional surface of the brake pads.

When you downshift the transmission to reduce speed, some of the momentum is likewise converted to heat by wearing away some of the friction elements (brakes, bands, and clutch discs) within the transmission. Once the downshift is complete, most of the momentum is converted to heat by frictional pumping losses in the engine bearings and piston rings ("engine braking").

Granted, for a similar event, the overall wear to the transmission friction elements is much less than the brake pad wear. However, the brake friction elements (pads) cost $200 (for all 4 wheels) to replace, versus perhaps $2000 to replace the friction elements in the transmission.

It's your choice.

petl

I agree with n0v8or. Articles I've read on this issue states the same. It's cheaper to replace brakes than a transmission. I wouldn't put any additional strain on a transmission. I believe that's the reason we have brakes on vehicles. Putting it neutral is OK.

mgold

All my past cars have been 6 cylinder. Thr Buick Le Sabre is a 6.

regis

regis

This is a jpg photo and only 85 kb. If this won't work, I give up

mgold

No. The Buick Le Sabre is a front wheel drive also and has 6 cylinders.

motownusa

Bingo it works Thanks Pat

fin

Fundamental..but so often misunderstood...excellent explanation !!

motownusa

Hi Regis:

Try doing this. First go to the Picture page and highlight the web address corresponding with the Pic. Then Right Click and choose "Copy". Then come here on the Avalon Forum ( or wherever u want to post). Then, click on the Img
bar at the bottom. Then right next to it RIGHT CLICK your mouse and highlight "Paste". After that click on Img again. Trust me it works

havalongavalon

n0v8or and petl,

In theory you are correct, but in practice the Avalon is designed to routinely use "engine braking" while in D. To downshift (with moderation) while in S only reproduces normal loads that the transmission is designed to withstand. If the transmission were to wear prematurely with this type of normal use, this would have to be covered by the warranty or extended warranty.

Moderate downshifting to help slow down the car should be cheaper than more frequent replacement of worn brake elements (think rotors as well as pads).

Regarding coasting in neutral, this can improve gas mileage in hilly territory. I raised this issue and we had some discussion 5-6 months ago. I believe mackabee made the point that driving in neural could indeed cause damage to the transmission, besides being potentially unsafe in emergencies.

havalongavalon

tkevinc1

I am buying within the next few days. For those of you who have driven both, what are the pros and cons to each model? I know the ride is a little rougher in the Touring but is it enough to offset the performance? Is the VSC so important that I should skip on the Touring and get the XLS? I have not yet found a Touring with VSC.

havalongavalon

Another thing you can control while in S, is to override the Avalon's tendency to automatically downshift on steep downhills while in D. In S, you can often force a shift into "5" and improve gas mileage. It's a useful trick when driving on rolling terrain at around 50 mph. You may pick up some extra speed going down a hill in overdrive, but ahead there is another hill to climb... at which point you downshift, when needed (or if you don't, the car will do it for you). Keeps you more awake, too.

Kind of the opposite concept to "cruise control". A little bit closer to "U control".

havalongavalon

regis

Ok and thanks. That's exactly what I did. If someone would please access the link below and tell me what i'm doing wrong, I'd appreciate it. The second link is the photo I was trying to post.

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaAvalon/regis2006avalon.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=45

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaAvalon/regis2006avalon.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=41

havalongavalon

Hi regis,

I went to your website, Copied your image, then in this Reply I clicked "Img" THEN MOVED THE CURSOR TO THE RIGHT, Pasted the image and clicked "Img" again.

Nice GPS unit!

havalongavalon

nimimi

My 2006 LTD was to be delivered from the Portland, OR distribution center to my dealer, however, he says that the Port said they are waiting on "paint" for my car. He didn't know why the Port needed to paint all/some of my car, however. If my car was damaged in transit on the train, what does that do to the value of the car? Is this pretty much the same as being painted at the factory?

captain2

VSC is supposed to now be optional on both the XL and Touring. As far as which to buy - depends on what you want. I ended up with the Touring because I really preferred the 'aluminum' trim to the 'wood' and very much wanted the HID headlights. Handling and ride is definitely different, a little more of a sporty feel in the Touring - the steering is a lot more communicative but you will feel more of bumps. More of an isolated luxury ride in the XLS.
VSC, while it can be a very valuable safety feature in emergency situations, dials in a little too early for my taste on almost all cars so equipped - esp. during spirited driving. I have a 2005 so VSC was not even available, but don't think I would opt for the VSC even if I could. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't like computers etc. driving for me.

n0v8or

Havalong and I do partially agree, plus he is one of my favorite contributors on this board. If this discussion gets contentious, I will let him win.

I agree there is some engine braking in 5th (top) gear; but don't think it's good idea to force downshifts instead of using your service brake. It's been 40 years since I graduated from automatic transmission school, so perhaps I'm a bit rusty (or is it just the onset of senility?).

We need to differentiate between A/T gear changes made under load, versus no load. Just as applying your park brake while stopped does not wear any friction material, A/T (and M/T) clutching and declutching of unloaded shafts, or shafts rotating at the same rate, introduces little or no wear.

In the U151E Avalon A/T, there are only 2 conditions where engine braking occurs. Cruising in 5th (top) gear, both direct clutches are applied, and remain so even during light deceleration, locking the input and output shafts together through the overdrive gear ratio. Identical to an M/T car, there is some minimal engine braking when you "let up" on the accelerator. Once you slow to the point where the transmission drops into any other (1,2,3,or 4) gear, an overrunning clutch effectively decouples the engine from the drive shafts, so no engine braking occurs. The transmission is now “freewheeling” (similar to coasting). The same scenario is true for speeds 2,3, and 4 when you force a manual downshift while decelerating. As long as you are decelerating, all downshifts are made with no load, and there is no engine braking. Until you accelerate, there should be no perception of being in a lower gear. This is why the downhill scenario Havalong described works.

The second case is 1st gear. In “D”, there is no engine braking. Quoting from the Toyota transmission training manual, section 5:

“In D, the one-way clutch holds the carrier, so while decelerating no engine braking will occur.”

In S (manual) mode, however, selecting first gear engages the 1st/reverse brake, B2 (sometimes called a “band” by A/T mechanics), allowing the front wheels to drive the transmission input shaft through the gear reduction. It is the B2 friction surface that will be worn by this maneuver.

To replace the B2 friction material (B2 is actually a clutch instead of a band in the Avalon), the transmission must be removed from the car and disassembled, typically under conditions reminiscent of an operating room. Unfortunately, brake B2 is not designed for “heavy duty”. Other than S1, it is only used during Reverse.

I would hate to have to rip apart an A/T with 50K miles just to replace the B2 clutch pack. This is a job for the pros . . the clutch pack alone probably costs several hundred US$$. I can replace a set of brake pads in a hour or less in my garage at a cost of US$40-US$60.

I realize it can be a lot more fun to downshift. For many, it's worth the gamble.

joe369

Sometimes when the hills you drive are very steep (as a bunch of the ski mountains I've driven in New Zealand), curvy, without guide rails and cliffs.......you have to use the engine breaking. I remember at first trying to drive the car on D and it would literally flyyyyyyyyy down.......

deanie

Hi:
Yes, VSC is THAT important - safety is everything, and spending close to $30K for a car without it would be ridiculous. Yes, Touring rides a little more harsh, but it handles better - ie. safer and is more apt to avoid an accident than an XLS. I own an XLS w/VSC only because I bought an 05 in April this year and Touring was unavailable w/VSC at the time. Yes I'm pis%$#ed at Toyota for not telling me in April when I asked whether or not 06 Tourings would have VSC (yes they had to have known at the time).

Handling is an extremely important trait to me, but VSC won out over handling because it helps to AVOID an accident far better than the Touring's better handling suspension can do alone. Now that you have a chance to have both in the 06 Touring, just be patient and one will come along. Get on the phone - a day trip to a dealer perhaps 100-200 miles away is worth it.

Regards,
Deanie

deanie

Putting the tranny into neutral may save a little gas, but there are a couple of problems with this: shifting into neutral means the internal automatic clutch disengages a drive gear and then engages a drive gear again when shifting back into drive - two shifts. Over time that's a lot of transmission wear to maybe save a few hundred dollars over the life of the car if it's at the expense of a tranny rebuild that may never have come during the expected lifespan of the car.

Also, the tranny has a lot of slip built into it so there is no undue wear from being in drive at a stoplight for the same reasons as above (car manufacturers know we'll encounter stoplights routinely and have been designing auto trannys to cope with this without noticeable wear). It's also unsafe to be coasting out of gear if you should need to "floor it" to avoid an accident.

Regards,
Deanie

regis

motownusa

I was wondering why you installed an aftermarket navigation system rather than the factory installed one. Is it because of the price ? If so how big is the difference. Just curious because the Avalon could very well be my next car. And I definitely want NAVI.

P.S. Sorry about your image posting problem. Send an email to the host. Pat is very helpful regarding these matters. Keep us posted about your ownership experience.

stlmo

Regis, $3,350 Canadian vs. $1,900 US dollars for the factory Nav. Haven't looked at the exchange rate lately but sure seems like a soaking to me too. Besides you have have a C330 and as you likely saw in my prior comparison (since I now have both a C330 and factory NAV), I think the Garmin has overall better utility. Your explanation of the packages available in Canada vs US is interesting. I could have lived without some of the bells and whistles on the Ltd but it was going to be the wife's primary car and she saw the rear shade and had to have it since on long trips our young daughter makes her sit in the back seat with her.

MotownUSA, aftermarket auto Nav units vary somewhat depending on the model. If you search the internet I think you can find e-tailers selling the one Regis has for around $600 US. I think I saw it in Circuit City's ad within the past couple of weeks for $699. Post 9019 covers some of my observations/thoughts about the factory one in our Avalon and the aftermarket one I use in our other vehicle.

ange

Steve; I'll have to disagree with you re the LS430. I parked my 2005 Limited along side my daughters LS 430 The quality of the LS 430 stands out everywhere, inside and outside.The Limited at a quick glance looks similar, but doesn't come close.Take a closer real look. The body appears to be stamped smoother and the finish paint and clearcoat is super good quality. The interior quality and workmanship out shines the Avalon. The wood finish is a special true wood, not painted metal.There is a rear TV camera that works in reverse. You can watch DVD movies on the screen when the emergency brake is on. Paying $20,000 or more certainly gives the buyer something. 300HP and rear drive is great. You cannot see the engine, it is totally covered except for the check areas. The headlights turn at turns. This is a great car if that is what you want and can pay for it. This car is the best put together car I have ever seen. ange1

tdx

I too am looking to connect my iPod to my XLS. Wondering if you have received the Ice-Link yet and have installed it. If so, do the iPod controls appear on the display and are they controlled by the radio controls on the steering wheel? Thanks for any info on this.

regis

"If you search the internet I think you can find e-tailers selling the one Regis has for around $600 US. I think I saw it in Circuit City's ad within the past couple of weeks for $699"

I see www.gpscity.com has the Garmin c330 on for $551.95 US I paid $689 Cdn at Best Buy in TO, The had it listed for $899 Cdn but the Canadian arm of gpscity.com has it listed for the lower price so they very reluctantly price matched it.

duffner

I live in steep hill country and drive fast. Sterling Moss in an interview once said he never downshifted off the race track because brakes were cheaper. However, pads for Camrys are non-metallic and have been wearing out in 10,000 miles. We are now trying some non-Toyota pads. But anyhow, I downshift in steep hills daily for a total of maybe 10 miles a day. My 97 Camry transmission still acts like it is brand new. I wonder if anyone knows if the Avalon tranny is as good as the old Camry?

joe369

Yea, the difference between living in a steep hill country, vs the mountains I've driven in New Zealand is....that the latter takes about 45min-1 hour to get down. If you did not use engine/tranny breaking, you would have to have a firm pressure on the brakes the whole time..... the brakes over heat and wont work anymore after a while. Many tourists die there from falling off cliff in their cars.....

regis

"I was wondering why you installed an aftermarket navigation system rather than the factory installed one."

motownusa, the reasons why I bypassed the factory Nav for a portables GPS are:

of course the main reason was $3,550 Cdn. for the factory nav versus $689 Cdn for the portable unit

I read all the problems some post here about the factory nav but I suspect the main problem is learning how to use it. And it's very hard to learn when the unit is permanently in the car. It took me two days of practise at home with my portable GPS to learn all the amazing things it can do.

Since it's portable, I can use it in a second vehicle

my Garmin c330 has an internal 5 hour battery so I was able to install it without the ugly cables most other portable must use. The only time I use my dash mount is when I'm on an extended trip which is not often. See my post # 9244 to access photos of my installation (I still can't post photos directly in spite of lots of help from this forum)

pat

On the picture issue, I think (and this is really just a guess) that the problem may be that you are linking to a web page that contains a picture instead of the picture itself.

Let me see if this works:

Edit: Okay, it does not. I got the direct URL of the picture and we still get a broken link. Maybe it's something up with MSN? There are many other places that host photos, maybe you want to try another host?

Anyone else have suggestions on this? Someone earlier was able to make this work from that specific MSN page, I think?

regis

"Regis, I went to your website, Copied your image, then in this Reply I clicked "Img" THEN MOVED THE CURSOR TO THE RIGHT, Pasted the image and clicked "Img" again. . . havalongavalon"

OK. Thanks havalongavalon. I did exactly as you did. So did Pat but we both failed where you succeeded. Wonder why? Anyway, Pat thought it may be something to to with MSN photo. Does anyone have suggestions for a more reliable photo hosting site?

bahraini_zupra

photobucket.com

petl

Just to set the record straight, I never suggested putting the car in neutral to coast or save gas. Someone else did that. The only time I would ever put the tranny in neutral is when attempting to stop quickly in ice and snow conditions. Fortunately, I have not done it very often in the 37plus years of driving. Switching from drive to neutral and vise-versa does not require pushing any button. I can only assume that it is safe to do (or manufacturers would not have designed auto trannys this way) particularly for situations described above. I agree and common sense should dictate that this practice should only be used in emergency situations.

captain2

disagree on a number of points -
First of all, VSC systems will have the greatest impact YOUR ability to get the car into (and out of) trouble - like getting into a corner too deep, the system will cut throttle and/or apply braking because 'it' has decided that you don't know what you are doing and has assigned sometimes artificially low cornering limits on your car. Reference that $30k sedan comparo in C&D and the downrated handling on the 300 Touring simply because it has a 'hyperinterventionist' (their term) stability control system on a car that dynamically (because it is RWD) should outhandle the Av Touring. The automotive press will generally test and evaluate the handing of cars with VSC systems shut off (if they can) and have some disdain for 'electronic nannies'. Consumer magazines love them, of course. The point is that VSC can hinder your ability to avoid accidents simply because it is shutting down or modifying those systems you may need to use, at some level lower than the car's actual capabilities. Using these capabilties, of course, assumes a high level of driver competence. That said, VSC is most valuable and useful specifically in bad road conditions, given that it will generally sense loss of traction etc. before the driver can - just like ABS will 'pump' brakes more efficiently than the driver - dramatically shortening stopping distances.
Second, I would submit to you that the vast majority of accidents out there are not driver avoidable because of the safety systems that his car may or may not have. There is nothing VSC (or anything else) is going to do about that idiot running the red light - or that guy losing control in front of you and you have no place to go. It can certainly keep you from 'doing yourself in' but at a price.

havalongavalon

Hi regis, Pat and others,

Here is a thought. In my message # 9280 I copied and pasted regis' website image using a Mac computer. I tried to do this again now using a PC and l couldn't. Macs have superior graphics capabilities, but I don't understand why it should matter for this application.

Maybe someone else using a Mac could try to copy & paste regis' image into a message, to confirm or reject this theory?

havalongavalon

pat

I agree, it should not matter. But who knows?

bbraddock

I just purchased Cooper SLE touring 235/50/17 for my 2005 avalon. Nice looking, plenty of room in the wheel well. They were about $150 a tire and are V rated. The ONLY thing I had noticed is a slight vibration in the wheel at 62mph that goes away by 65.

regis

"But who knows?"

Pat, it appears that images can only be posted on this forum with a Mac. Too bad since visual sharing is a great way to communicate ideas. I've tried several options including changing browsers, photo fosters etc. but no luck. Anyway, thanks for trying.

Regis

fragmire

Though a good idea, I don't think it's technologically feasible. The simplest scenario is when you are out in the middle of nowhere (e.g. between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia or Central California). Furthermore, WiFi's range limit (up to 150 feet for 802.11b) and slow connection handshake severely limits the usability of this idea while moving anywhere faster than 35 mph. WiMax would be something to pay attention to, since it increases the range to the scale of miles, but that is still being evaluated by the industry and commercial products are only slowly surfacing.